DrDawkinstein Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Pass rushing DEs are the hardest defenders to find, by far. There are very few LTs and Qbs out there on offense. Teams such as the Colts lined up with Manning, Freeney and Glenn. The Pats had Brady, Light and Seymour. The Cowboys had Aikman, Jones and Tunei. Should I continue? The Bills never were able to replace Bruce, Kelly or Wolford. They concentrated on the secondary, and lost football games. When they did use a #4 on a blocker, they took a fat RT with a history of a bad ankle. Now, they have a chance. Trent looks good, Schobel is good, and Peters is a pro bowl LT yet you, a Bills Fan are blasting him and in essence, the Bills playoff chances. My intent is not to be curt or terse. I actually enjoy your posts, but by blasting Peters and defending Ralph and his stooges, you are rooting against yourself as a Bills Fan in terms of your team being able to win. You do have company I must say. Soon my man e-ball will chime in and tell us how great Demetrius Bell is. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! see here is where the multi-thread pages spawn from. those of us on the other side see your position as rooting against the Bills as well, since you are willing to throw the good of the TEAM away for ONE PLAYER. i am definitely not saying that Peters isnt a truly gifted athlete and he is easily replaceable. i think the Bills SHOULD extend him. however, i think he himself is sacrificing our winning season and playoff chance because he cant stand to only make $3.5mil this year and wait until next season for the $10mil payday.
Trader Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 That may be the best idea yet. In any moment of decision the best thing you can do is the right thing, the next best thing is the wrong thing, and the worst thing you can do is nothing. - THEODORE ROOSEVELT Actually the only thing I like about the situation is that the Bills, Peters and Peters Agent are not negotiating in the press. That civility will come to an end if Peters fails to report before the first game.
Bill from NYC Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 see here is where the multi-thread pages spawn from. those of us on the other side see your position as rooting against the Bills as well, since you are willing to throw the good of the TEAM away for ONE PLAYER. i am definitely not saying that Peters isnt a truly gifted athlete and he is easily replaceable. i think the Bills SHOULD extend him. however, i think he himself is sacrificing our winning season and playoff chance because he cant stand to only make $3.5mil this year and wait until next season for the $10mil payday. Doc, I want him to come to Buffalo as much as you, probably as much as anyone on Earth. Will you consider the possibility that this is a unique case, and that Ralph and his stooges are in the Stone Age? The goal really is to win, not to send some abstract message that won't mean s t in a few years. Ralph has plenty of money and the Bills have plenty of cap space. An agreement should be reached. The people of WNY and Bills Fans everywhere deserve a winner. We deserve to watch our team make the playoffs.
DrDawkinstein Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 Doc, I want him to come to Buffalo as much as you, probably as much as anyone on Earth. Will you consider the possibility that this is a unique case, and that Ralph and his stooges are in the Stone Age? The goal really is to win, not to send some abstract message that won't mean s t in a few years. Ralph has pleant of money and the Bills have plenty of cap space. An agreement should be reached. The people of WNY and Bills Fans everywhere deserve a winner. We deserve to watch our team make the playoffs. i cant disagree with anything in your post Bill. but i do not think that the Bills (or any team) should negotiate with players who hold out. ESPECIALLY a hold out like this. even if we agree that he wouldve been worth $10million this season - at this point, missing camp, missing learning the new offense, missing getting into game shape, missing building chemistry with the rest of the line... i think he has managed to knock himself down to only being worth a couple mil. Which, given the fines he now owes the team, works itself out perfectly. this whole stupid hold-out in order to get paid this year, only made him lose value. it was the anti-negotiating tactic. he MAY have been worth $8-10mil back in March, but now he's not. the Bills have a LOT of young players who are on rookie contracts or who have not come into their own. Most of which will need to be re-signed within the next 3 years. As a Bills fan, i do not want to see these guys hold the team hostage and force themselves out of the city. If you can say "Ralph has the money, he should spend it" then I can say "$3.5million should be enough for anyone, he shouldnt want more". neither really makes sense.
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted August 25, 2008 Posted August 25, 2008 I have some dumb question(s) and I apologize in advance if they've been asked and answered in one of the many Peters threads... Has there ever been a similar situation on another team, involving a player who has overachieved in a relatively short time at his (very important) position, been selected to the Pro Bowl, underpaid compared to other similar positions on the same team, had 2-3 years left on his contract, held out through the preseason and convinced his FO to negotiate a new deal before showing up? Follow on question... how many players with 2-3 years left on their current deal, that refused to show up, and got new contracts, regardless of position, pro bowl status, or comparison with other players on the same team? Both of these can follow the Steven Jackson move... hold out, then show up when a new deal is imminent, doesn't have to be signed before showing up.
yall Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 So the reason that he is holding out for 10 million a year this year is because he has no idea if he is hurt or not? You're right. It is all speculation. But I would still bet anything you want that he is holding out for a huge contract, this year, because he is the third highest paid lineman on his team and he was named a starting Pro Bowl player and his contemporaries are making 5-8 million dollars more per year than he is. ALL common sense and logic and reporting points to that simple, obvious conclusion, and NO other possible scenario makes much of any sense at all to me. I hate this saying, but it's a freakin' duck. Tell you what Kelly - Are you going to any games this year? If so, I'll bet you a stadium beer that when Peters does show up and start playing within 2 weeks we hear about his "nagging sports hernia". Deal?
Mickey Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 Tell you what Kelly - Are you going to any games this year? If so, I'll bet you a stadium beer that when Peters does show up and start playing within 2 weeks we hear about his "nagging sports hernia". Deal? Well, its not really all speculation. He was checked out by the team doctors after the surgery, in fact, that is the last time Brandon saw Peters. The other side, that the injury is a factor in the holdout is relying entirely on speculation.
Mickey Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 nothing more than they are doing now. they honestly cant do much more than they have. for the good of the franchise/business as a whole. what i would like to see happen from the Bills is this: when Peters finally shows, collect on all of the fines from missing camp. do not re-sign him this year. do not rush him back into the starting lineup until he is really ready. (even if it is week 9) if he plays at the same level as last year, have a new contract ready immediately at the end of the season. or, if Chambers/Walker/Bell work out ok, trade him for a 1st round pick (worst case scenario). Peters/Parker are trying to hold the team hostage. the team is doing the only thing they can and "not negotiating with terrorists" (for lack of more descriptive term) What it is that the team has done besides telling him no new deal? It seems to me that they have done nothing and so I don't understand what you mean by saying they have done all they can unless you mean all they can do is nothing.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 Tell you what Kelly - Are you going to any games this year? If so, I'll bet you a stadium beer that when Peters does show up and start playing within 2 weeks we hear about his "nagging sports hernia". Deal? Sure. I am going to at least the Chargers game at home, Cardinals on the road, and probably 1-2 others. I agree that sometimes injuries occur with holdouts. I simply think it's impossible they are trying to fool the Bills because he's hurt.
yall Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 Sure. I am going to at least the Chargers game at home, Cardinals on the road, and probably 1-2 others. I agree that sometimes injuries occur with holdouts. I simply think it's impossible they are trying to fool the Bills because he's hurt. Cool - you go to Hammer's lot? I'm always up for meeting fellow TBD'ers in person.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 Cool - you go to Hammer's lot? I'm always up for meeting fellow TBD'ers in person. I usually stop by Dannys or Big Tree and then Lot 1 Pole 9 and Kenny's extravaganza.
The Senator Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 Tell you what Kelly - Are you going to any games this year? If so, I'll bet you a stadium beer that when Peters does show up and start playing within 2 weeks we hear about his "nagging sports hernia". Deal? Can I get in on this? I'll throw in a stadium hot dog that Peters, if he ever decides he wants to play football in the NFL again, will be nothing of his old self. He'll show up outa shape, won't be familiar with the new offensive schemes, have to adjust to a new OL-coach, be a step or two slower, and probably pull or tear up his groin again in the first couple weeks. More importantly, the guy doesn't want to play football. His head's not right, his attitude's all wrong. He should be wanting to channel his anger, frustration, or whatever the !@#$ is wrong in his head into proving his fierceness on the field but apparently, after tasting big bucks and having to rehab from a season-ending injury, he doesn't have the drive, the hunger, the competitive spirit to need to get his ass on the field and knock bodies around. Now it's all about the money. Screw the team that gave him his chance, screw his teammates, and screw the fans. We may have already seen Jason Peters play his last down in the NFL. It's sad, but it happens. (Remember Brian Bosworth?) Luckily for Peters, though, he's also a pro bowler - he'll have plenty of time to work on picking up those 7-10 splits.
shibuya Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 there is obviously something very wrong with Peters. I strongly believe he will be a shell of his former self. For him now it isn't about playing, it's about getting paid, and usually players like that lose the passion when they get fat and drunk on money. A player with one year left has a legitimate reason for not showing up... Peters has 3 and needs to negotiate from within The Bills will be investing in OL again next year, because no one can now trust Peters... he has shown his true self. My money is on out of shape, and still struggling with inury.
DrDawkinstein Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 at least we didnt waste the 4th pick of the draft on this one...
cody Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 but i do not think that the Bills (or any team) should negotiate with players who hold out. That is a big part of the problem. Other teams negotiate with holdouts. The best way for the "no report, no negotiation" strategy to work would be if other teams did it too. 2008 Parker holds out Jackson and Hester, the Rams and Bears cave in. 2005 Parker holds out Richard Seymour, the Patriots cave. 2005 Parker holds out Hines Ward, Bill Cower and Ward had a 'lengthy conversation', Ward reports and signs a deal 20 days later. All involved aknowledged how importiant it was to keep communicating, even if they were not 'negotiating'.
VABills Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 This isn't our Jason Peters is it????? http://www.newschannel5.com/global/story.asp?s=8900242 Jason Peters and Jennifer Rae were charged with first-degree murder and child abuse in the death of their son, Wesley Peters.
The Senator Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 That is a big part of the problem. Other teams negotiate with holdouts. The best way for the "no report, no negotiation" strategy to work would be if other teams did it too. 2008 Parker holds out Jackson and Hester, the Rams and Bears cave in. 2005 Parker holds out Richard Seymour, the Patriots cave. 2005 Parker holds out Hines Ward, Bill Cower and Ward had a 'lengthy conversation', Ward reports and signs a deal 20 days later. All involved aknowledged how importiant it was to keep communicating, even if they were not 'negotiating'. The Rams did not "cave" - Jackson was unhappy with the holdout, and worried about the damage to his image and his relationships with the team, his teammates and the fans, and ordered Parker to negotiate. Talks got started, Rams said come to camp and we'll get a deal done - Jackson showed up, a deal got done. Peters could also order Parker to negotiate, but my bet is he's not physically or mentally ready to play football.
cody Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 The Rams did not "cave" - Jackson was unhappy with the holdout, and worried about the damage to his image and his relationships with the team, his teammates and the fans, and ordered Parker to negotiate. Talks got started, Rams said come to camp and we'll get a deal done - Jackson showed up, a deal got done. Peters could also order Parker to negotiate, but my bet is he's not physically or mentally ready to play football. Maybe 'cave' is not the right word. But it is the word most often used here to describe what happens when teams that negotiate with holdouts. Jackson came in when they agreed to a deal, in principle. The Bills are claiming that they are unwilling to negotiate until Peters reports. Even if ordered by Peters, Parker can't negotiate without at least some participation from the Bills.
plenzmd1 Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 Just let me state before i get blasted, I understand centers get paid less than LTs. And I have no idea what the bonus was on the current deal. But, was looking at ESPN the mag this morning, and was shocked to see Saturday earns $3.5M this year as well, same number as Peters. And from all accounts, Manning would be lost without Saturday making all the line calls. I think he is considereded one of the top three centers in the game. Considering he was selected to ALL Pro team, not just the Pro Bowl, I think he would have a reason to be going ape chit over his contract as well, as I am sure it did not compare to what LeCharles Bently got from Cleveland. Plus, he is the last year of his contract, when one could resonably expect to negotiate an extension/redo. What is the point of all this? I dunno, but maybe, just maybe, there are other guys in the NFL underpaid based on last season performance( or actually several years, compared to Peters 1) and all of them are not holding out.
VABills Posted August 26, 2008 Posted August 26, 2008 Just let me state before i get blasted, I understand centers get paid less than LTs. And I have no idea what the bonus was on the current deal. But, was looking at ESPN the mag this morning, and was shocked to see Saturday earns $3.5M this year as well, same number as Peters. And from all accounts, Manning would be lost without Saturday making all the line calls. I think he is considereded one of the top three centers in the game. Considering he was selected to ALL Pro team, not just the Pro Bowl, I think he would have a reason to be going ape chit over his contract as well, as I am sure it did not compare to what LeCharles Bently got from Cleveland. Plus, he is the last year of his contract, when one could resonably expect to negotiate an extension/redo. What is the point of all this? I dunno, but maybe, just maybe, there are other guys in the NFL underpaid based on last season performance( or actually several years, compared to Peters 1) and all of them are not holding out. Matt Light from the hated Patriots makes about 4.5 million a year with his contract. He is a pro bowler, 2nd rounder, who is on his extension. He also has been part of playoff and super bowls. What makes Peters think he is worth that much? I don't see light holding out.
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