If Peters doesn't show

[Bill from NYC]

Either way, it explains the lack of communication and supports exactly the point I was making, they aren't talking because there is nothing to talk about.

 

It seems you are more a fan of Russ Brandon than the team. Maybe you should get a lawn chair and sit outside Russ's office and do a one man wave. Who would want to watch Peters pancake a blitzing LB when you can watch Russ increase profit margins. Did you see the way he sharpened that pencil? Sweet.

 

[Bmwolf21]

JP is coming off an injury and surgery (sports hernia), that does not always heal properly in 6 months ( case in point - Grant Hill NBA Magic - his succesful surgery took two years before he became effective again, and even then he lost much of his explosiveness). Was JP a budding superstar before the injury? - Yes. Is he as athletically agile after, we don't know. Remember he has stayed away since January. We would like to have the old JP back, but we don't know if he is the same and neither does the bills brass.

When it comes to injuries and recuperation time I wouldn't use Grant Hill as an example of anything. Great guy to be sure, but he stole almost $100M from the Magic.

[IDBillzFan]

My friend, there was no reason for insults, but that's OK. Do as you wish, but you are very, if not totally wrong.

 

Please, stop sounding as if life comes with guarantees. This great reigon is in danger of losing it's franchise. I want a win for myself, this is true. I am a Bills Fan, and yes; I care more about them winning than I do about abstract bu!!sh--. Not sure if you agree.

 

You know, I never did take you for one who was hung up on abstract bu!!sh--.

Didn't mean to come across as insulting, so sorry for that. That said, this isn't some abstract bullshiiit. It's a business negotiation, and it is very real. How they handle this negotiation drives the future of the franchise every bit as how many wins they will have this year.

 

And life does come with guarantees. I guarantee that this will either end, one way or another, and the team -- and its fans -- will move on to the next drama.

[Mickey]

You should let Peters and Wilson know this. Once they know it's really all about you, I'm sure things will change right away.

 

We need Peters in a bad way. We need integrity at the front office even more. You may be willing to throw integrity and bargaining power out the window for a chance at immediate gratification and stupidity -- the latter of which is the level of effort Peters is displaying-- but I believe most people would rather stand pat, even at the cost of not making the playoffs. Because giving in to Peters would be, without question, the most moronic thing this front office has done in years.

Was it just as moronic to give in to Schobel? The team approached his agents in February of 2007 after the Kelsay deal and then spent 6 months negotiating a new deal for him which, save for a few details, was done before training camp. Despite the team showing all that good faith, Schobel skipped the first 4 offseason practices in March of 2007 to send the team a message. He had three years left on his deal too and the deal he had just signed had made him the highest paid guy in team history as I recall.

 

This is football, not a scout troop, integrity has nothing to do with it. It is a business that is about money. On the field it is about winning and if you can complete passes or sack quarterbacks, it doesn't matter if you do so with or without integrity. The business part of the NFL, like the game on the field, has its own internal rules, traditions and accepted ways of doing business. Holding out was not invented by Jason Peters or Eugene Parker. Last year it got Larry Johnson a huge new deal as it did Steve Jackson this year.

 

There are no villains here, just two businesses fighting over their share of the money pie.

[Mickey]

Didn't mean to come across as insulting, so sorry for that. That said, this isn't some abstract bullshiiit. It's a business negotiation, and it is very real. How they handle this negotiation drives the future of the franchise every bit as how many wins they will have this year.

 

And life does come with guarantees. I guarantee that this will either end, one way or another, and the team -- and its fans -- will move on to the next drama.

I agree, it is a business and this will have an effect. I just think the better business decision is to have worked out a deal, as we did with Schobel, to keep Peters knocking the snot out of opposing DE's for a long time to come. Reasonable minds can differ on that. I just don't see why it has become so personal for so many here. The board is filled with bile about Peters.

[The Senator]

Either way, it explains the lack of communication and supports exactly the point I was making, they aren't talking because there is nothing to talk about.

 

It seems you are more a fan of Russ Brandon than the team. Maybe you should get a lawn chair and sit outside Russ's office and do a one man wave. Who would want to watch Peters pancake a blitzing LB when you can watch Russ increase profit margins. Did you see the way he sharpened that pencil? Sweet.

That actually was pretty funny.

 

And you're right - I'm much more on Brandon's side than Peckerhead's, who, of late, can probably count his fans on one hand (you, Bill, Kelly, BillsVet - oops, Jason's running out of fingers, and that's probably the only way he can count!)

 

Fact is, Parker's had success getting good deals for his clients but with this holdout strategy, he seems to have devolved into a 'one-trick pony' (Hester, Peters, Jackson, etc.) The reason the deal got done with the Rams & Jackson is because Jackson was growing very uneasy and unhappy about the holdout, his image, and relationship with the team, and he basically threatened to fire Parker if the deal didn't get done. It was Jackson who ordered Parker to start talking to the Rams about a week ago.

 

I guess Peters is too stupid to realize this and start looking out for his own interests, not Parker's.

[BillsWatch]

I hope that they don't waive these fines.

 

I wonder what the payment schedule is like too. Are these fines immediately collectible? If so, I wouldn't let him in the facility until we get a check for $400K up front. (Yeah, I'm bitter)

 

They ought to file a collection report and have a bill collector show up.

[cody]

I agree, it is a business and this will have an effect. I just think the better business decision is to have worked out a deal, as we did with Schobel, to keep Peters knocking the snot out of opposing DE's for a long time to come. Reasonable minds can differ on that. I just don't see why it has become so personal for so many here. The board is filled with bile about Peters.

 

I think the best way for a football team to deal with a holdout is to prevent it. The way they prevented Schobel from holding out.

 

Can anyone come up with an example of a team that ever 'won' in a holdout dispute? - by winning I mean the player caves, comes in and plays a season with that team under his current contract, and is still on the team the next year.

[1billsfan]

Didn't mean to come across as insulting, so sorry for that. That said, this isn't some abstract bullshiiit. It's a business negotiation, and it is very real. How they handle this negotiation drives the future of the franchise every bit as how many wins they will have this year.

 

And life does come with guarantees. I guarantee that this will either end, one way or another, and the team -- and its fans -- will move on to the next drama.

 

 

You mean like how they handled contract negotiations with Aaron Schobel last year? The Bills practically fell over themselves handing over the cash to a much overrated player in Schobel. But you don't seem to want to take that into account regarding this current situation. Maybe this is about Schobel's deal and how he was handled and why there appears to be a double standard all of a sudden with Jason Peters. You're a year late in your concern about future negotiations of Bills players. They not only showed Schobel his renegotiated money, they ran it over to him with flowers and candy. It's only fair that they would do the same with a player that is so much better and much more important to the future of this team.

[DrDawkinstein]

Schobel had already proven himself as a consistent ProBowl player over MULTIPLE seasons. not just one good one with an injury.

[Kelly the Dog]

That actually was pretty funny.

 

And you're right - I'm much more on Brandon's side than Peckerhead's, who, of late, can probably count his fans on one hand (you, Bill, Kelly, BillsVet - oops, Jason's running out of fingers, and that's probably the only way he can count!)

 

Fact is, Parker's had success getting good deals for his clients but with this holdout strategy, he seems to have devolved into a 'one-trick pony' (Hester, Peters, Jackson, etc.) The reason the deal got done with the Rams & Jackson is because Jackson was growing very uneasy and unhappy about the holdout, his image, and relationship with the team, and he basically threatened to fire Parker if the deal didn't get done. It was Jackson who ordered Parker to start talking to the Rams about a week ago.

 

I guess Peters is too stupid to realize this and start looking out for his own interests, not Parker's.

Parker has about 45-50 clients. How many actually held out? Two? Three? He had five first rounders, tied for first amongst all agents. That means players think he's the best or right up there. He's known for being one of the top few agents in the league, has been for over a decade, and his client list attests to that. Jackson;s holdout, ONCE he hired Parker, got him 10 million a year for three years. I bet you Steven Jackson loves Eugene Parker right now.

 

BTW, I am not and have never been on his side. I don't think Peters should be holding out at all. I don't think the Bills should cave at all. I don't really think they should pay him this year (although I would be happy with it because it means he would be locked up).

 

My issue on this whole thing for the last few weeks is three-fold:

1] that Parker is not stupid, like 90% of the fans and posters seem to believe,

2] that unfortunately, IMO, this is ultimately going to get Peters more money, and

3] That the Bills aren't really being forthright in their public comments (although I surely understand why they are doing it) because they say "just show up first and then we will talk" when what they really mean is "just show up first but you're not going to like what we have to say, because we have no intention of paying you what you are worth this year."

[SwampD]

I think the best way for a football team to deal with a holdout is to prevent it. The way they prevented Schobel from holding out.

 

Can anyone come up with an example of a team that ever 'won' in a holdout dispute? - by winning I mean the player caves, comes in and plays a season with that team under his current contract, and is still on the team the next year.

Like seeing a player on your team that is getting payed as a TE even though he is playing Tackle. So you re-negotiate his contract and pay him what you both thought was fair at the time. Yeah, the Bills really should have done this.

 

What exactly should the Bills do here. Go to his house with a bucket of money, get on there knees and beg him to come back, maybe give him a happy ending as a gesture of good will. He's a grown man(I think). Grown men go to work. He should honor his contract(like what any of us would do) and go to work.

[DrDawkinstein]

i just dont like this notion that players have where after they have 1 good year they want to be paid in the top 5 of their position, but when they dont play well have no intention of re-negotiating and taking a pay cut.

 

i wont blame anyone for trying to get paid. but the logic behind "i had a good year, throw away my contract that is not even half way finished" is flawed.

[Kelly the Dog]

i just dont like this notion that players have where after they have 1 good year they want to be paid in the top 5 of their position, but when they dont play well have no intention of re-negotiating and taking a pay cut.

 

i wont blame anyone for trying to get paid. but the logic behind "i had a good year, throw away my contract that is not even half way finished" is flawed.

So is the concept of paying players 11 million a year who have never played a down. So is the concept of paying players 25 million who have never had a good year but might (Langston Walker). It's just the way it works.

 

What people are often forgetting, I believe, in this whole argument, is this is a fluke occurrence. Sure a few players hold out all the time, sure players gripe when others playing the same position make more than them. But how many times does a player's talent, production, value, and critical acclaim skyrocket in one year at one of the most important positions in the game? Rarely if ever. This is a unique case. Sure he was paid well before, but in his first year at a position, he was named starter in the pro bowl. Most everyone in the league speaks of him as a total stud and already one of the best. He's a freakish combination of outrageous size, strength, athletic ability and being an insanely quick learner (witness the ST plays he made his first year).

 

This is an usual case and I think people are forgetting that a lot, and just lumping him in with all players who want more money.

[SwampD]

So is the concept of paying players 11 million a year who have never played a down. So is the concept of paying players 25 million who have never had a good year but might (Langston Walker). It's just the way it works.

 

What people are often forgetting, I believe, in this whole argument, is this is a fluke occurrence. Sure a few players hold out all the time, sure players gripe when others playing the same position make more than them. But how many times does a player's talent, production, value, and critical acclaim skyrocket in one year at one of the most important positions in the game? Rarely if ever. This is a unique case. Sure he was paid well before, but in his first year at a position, he was named starter in the pro bowl. Most everyone in the league speaks of him as a total stud and already one of the best. He's a freakish combination of outrageous size, strength, athletic ability and being an insanely quick learner (witness the ST plays he made his first year).

 

This is an usual case and I think people are forgetting that a lot, and just lumping him in with all players who want more money.

How do we know his last season wasn't a fluke. Or his injury.

[Kelly the Dog]

How do we know his last season wasn't a fluke. Or his injury.

Because he went from (year one) an undrafted nobody TE to (year two) a ST demon and a project the coaches absolutely gushed over to (year three) a solid starter on one side that was so good they switched him to LT in the middle of the year (which instantly and dramatically changed the play of the OL) to (year four) a dominant LT and voted starter in the Pro Bowl.

[SwampD]

Because he went from (year one) an undrafted nobody TE to (year two) a ST demon and a project the coaches absolutely gushed over to (year three) a solid starter on one side that was so good they switched him to LT in the middle of the year (which instantly and dramatically changed the play of the OL) to (year four) a dominant LT and voted starter in the Pro Bowl.

I agree with all of that...kind of. If he was so dominant then why didn't we run to the left on every play? Why was our offense still so atrocious? Why does everyone think that without him this year the team is in ruin, even though last year he wasn't enough to make a difference? I want to see him finish a season before I pay him.

[AJ1]

Parker has about 45-50 clients. How many actually held out? Two? Three? He had five first rounders, tied for first amongst all agents. That means players think he's the best or right up there. He's known for being one of the top few agents in the league, has been for over a decade, and his client list attests to that. Jackson;s holdout, ONCE he hired Parker, got him 10 million a year for three years. I bet you Steven Jackson loves Eugene Parker right now.

 

BTW, I am not and have never been on his side. I don't think Peters should be holding out at all. I don't think the Bills should cave at all. I don't really think they should pay him this year (although I would be happy with it because it means he would be locked up).

 

My issue on this whole thing for the last few weeks is three-fold:

1] that Parker is not stupid, like 90% of the fans and posters seem to believe,

2] that unfortunately, IMO, this is ultimately going to get Peters more money, and

3] That the Bills aren't really being forthright in their public comments (although I surely understand why they are doing it) because they say "just show up first and then we will talk" when what they really mean is "just show up first but you're not going to like what we have to say, because we have no intention of paying you what you are worth this year."

 

1: Parker may be suffering from hubris and overreaching in this case. Ever consider it?

 

2: Or he could effectively cost himself 10 - 60 % of his 2008 salary.

 

3: If the Bills aren't forthright in their public comments the other side can show them up, can they not?

[DrDawkinstein]

Because he went from (year one) an undrafted nobody TE to (year two) a ST demon and a project the coaches absolutely gushed over to (year three) a solid starter on one side that was so good they switched him to LT in the middle of the year (which instantly and dramatically changed the play of the OL) to (year four) a dominant LT and voted starter in the Pro Bowl.

 

reality, as usual, lies somewhere between these two very good points

 

I agree with all of that...kind of. If he was so dominant then why didn't we run to the left on every play? Why was our offense still so atrocious? Why does everyone think that without him this year the team is in ruin, even though last year he wasn't enough to make a difference? I want to see him finish a season before I pay him.

[Kelly the Dog]

I agree with all of that...kind of. If he was so dominant then why didn't we run to the left on every play? Why was our offense still so atrocious? Why does everyone think that without him this year the team is in ruin, even though last year he wasn't enough to make a difference? I want to see him finish a season before I pay him.

There were numerous reasons why we weren't dominant on offense last year and able to run left on every play. It included the offense they were playing, the QB problems, the rookie running back, the actual plays called, the WRs cocnsistently unable to get open, the lack of any semblance of a TE.

 

The play of Jason Peters was about reason #114 as to why our offense sucked last year.