Andrew in CA Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 So? That, in my opinion, is one of the *best* aspects of religion. It has an ability to provide comfort. Try for a minute to imagine what it would be like to die and simply cease to exist. I'm not sure that's even fathomable. Having an answer (however correct) can make life much more enjoyable. I think religion in it's *purest* sense is a good thing. However true all of the stories are, if people truly modeled their lives after Jesus, we'd live in a much better world. The problems arise when politics and extremists mix in. Hell, hypocrites that leave Sunday Mass and proceed to cut off other drivers and ignore humanity as a whole... *they* are a problem. They show up so they can tell their neighbors they were there. Whatever my personal beliefs are... I can see that there are benefits. There are clearly downsides, though... can't argue that. Dead on. Matthew 6:5, one of my favorite chapters.
mcjeff215 Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 Word. The other day I'm driving behind some ritzy BMW with a large X-ian "fish" emblem blazoned on the trunk, and the !@#$tard tosses his lit ciggy out the window. And people wonder why Griffith park seems to burn down every two days this summer. But at least he didn't get his ashtray full of ashes or anything, God forbid. What a tool. Sounds like my drive to work most mornings. Yeah, isn't that just annoying? I'm sure his kids go to VBS and his wife is active in a faith sharing group or something as well. It's a routine rather than a belief system. Just have to be sure all of the neighbors see them in church. Forget about the religion side for a minute. If half of those people took some of the message to heart... what a difference.
SAM HARRIS Posted August 22, 2008 Author Posted August 22, 2008 Faith is the reason. I simply choose to have faith in Christ's return, along with His redemption of my sin and His position as the Son of God. if i have faith that hulk hogan is going to raise my great grandfather from the dead how is that a good reason??????
Buford T. Justice Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 if i have faith that hulk hogan is going to raise my great grandfather from the dead how is that a good reason?????? As long as it makes you lead a better life and you don't harm anyone in the process, why should anyone care?
gmac17 Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 The biggest question I have is: who created God? ralph wilson
DC Tom Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 4) To those waiting on the return of Christ: be prepared to be disappointed. If he shows up again, you do realize what human kind will do to him, correct? Kill him just like they did the first time He'd probably be killed as a false prophet by the same people prophecizing and awaiting his coming...just like the first time. If you believe that.
DC Tom Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 The biggest question I have is: who created God? Well...I took the initiative in creating God. I took the initiative in moving forward a whole range of initiatives that have proven to be important to religion...[/Al Gore]
Hazed and Amuzed Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 1) I don't believe in anything other than God. And I call this higher power God because it's a convenient name, although its not the God thought of by the Christian Church or any other Church. But I've seen some things (the birth of a human baby for example) that despite having scientific explanations are still miracles. 2) Why can't everyone just admit that of all the religions in this world, at the absolute most, only ONE can be right -- and even that's a stretch. 3) If religion makes someone happy, so be it. To each their own. But if a religion refuses to let others be happy (see Catholicism and homosexuals, Catholicism and divorcees, etc) that's a bigger problem. 4) To those waiting on the return of Christ: be prepared to be disappointed. If he shows up again, you do realize what human kind will do to him, correct? Kill him just like they did the first time (if that's what you believe). Let's look at David Koresh. He claimed to be the final prophet. He had a legion of followers. And what happened to him? Am I saying he was the next coming of Christ? Of course not. But just imagine the consequences for anyone who professes that they are "Christ". Either death or the loony bin. 5) I like to keep an open mind. To me, if there's a heaven, I'm being just good enough a person to get into the lawn seats. And if its heaven, that's gotta still be a pretty good show. To those dedicating their life to a specific religion, let them have the front row center. They've worked for it. I just don't have the dedication. I agree with this post BUT this thread is simply bait to pull people into an argument with someone who will refuse to reason. Look, what does it matter to you Sam what people believe? Why did you jump after Buckeyemike when he disagreed with you? He's not going to listen as I'm sure neither will you. No one is going to change your mind and I'm sure that you are not going to change the minds of faith. Faith and science aren't the best of friends and neither are those who have taken stock in one or the other. The main problem here is on both sides. We just have to learn to swallow our pride and accept that we disagree. People have been dying in the name of God since the begining of time and they will continue till the end. The only thing that proves is that many have the need for a higher power. It's us being ego-infatuated human beings that breaks this need into different groups and calls them "religion". I personally believe in God and attend church but I do it for me and not for any other reason. I question EVERYTHING though. Everything that the pastor says I question but I also question science. Just because there are new studies coming our way every day doesn't mean that any schmo should try to interpret them and give their opinion nor do we even know if said studies are completely accurate. Hold on too what you believe instead of forcing it on someone else. You are doing in essence what you dislike about religion. You are attacking based on your belief being more important to you then others. By attacking ANY religion for attacking other religions you have turned yourself into a hypocrite.
Hazed and Amuzed Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 The biggest question I have is: who created God? Mike from Arby's. He makes a great apple turnover as well.
ieatcrayonz Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 great author! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyPdQ-VRjA0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RMH4VBH4VE...feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8dv7OUKjeE...feature=related listen for a while, and put in your two cents on how good or bad religion is in the 21st century and how it conflicts with science. Dude. I have a Googlebt and he is programmed to be able to speak directly with god. I talk to the man all of the time. Trust me. If you choose to listen to this guy on Youtube who is obviously a complete dweeb just trying to get laid, fine. If you choose to believe him instead of the dude I talk to via Googlebot, you are in a world of hurt.
SAM HARRIS Posted August 22, 2008 Author Posted August 22, 2008 As long as it makes you lead a better life and you don't harm anyone in the process, why should anyone care? because what u believe matters. if i really believe that i won the lottery or in the boogie man there are severe consequences!
SAM HARRIS Posted August 22, 2008 Author Posted August 22, 2008 I agree with this post BUT this thread is simply bait to pull people into an argument with someone who will refuse to reason. Look, what does it matter to you Sam what people believe? Why did you jump after Buckeyemike when he disagreed with you? He's not going to listen as I'm sure neither will you. No one is going to change your mind and I'm sure that you are not going to change the minds of faith. Faith and science aren't the best of friends and neither are those who have taken stock in one or the other. The main problem here is on both sides. We just have to learn to swallow our pride and accept that we disagree. People have been dying in the name of God since the begining of time and they will continue till the end. The only thing that proves is that many have the need for a higher power. It's us being ego-infatuated human beings that breaks this need into different groups and calls them "religion". I personally believe in God and attend church but I do it for me and not for any other reason. I question EVERYTHING though. Everything that the pastor says I question but I also question science. Just because there are new studies coming our way every day doesn't mean that any schmo should try to interpret them and give their opinion nor do we even know if said studies are completely accurate. Hold on too what you believe instead of forcing it on someone else. You are doing in essence what you dislike about religion. You are attacking based on your belief being more important to you then others. By attacking ANY religion for attacking other religions you have turned yourself into a hypocrite. the point is we need to stop lying to our children about what we think we know and when really we dont. faith is the answer when there is no good reason, its the god of the gaps argument over and over. well i dont get it so god must have done this... its not a post to bate people but to get people to think for themselves unlike the crusades.
SAM HARRIS Posted August 22, 2008 Author Posted August 22, 2008 there is truth and there is an argument to be won. should we let the muslims just believe whatever they want or should we question all claims with kindness and diligence. what is wrong with this. this conversation is worth having! i used to b a christian but changed my mind...
Dwight Drane Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 The apocalypse is coming in 9/2009. Dwight Drane told me so. Never said that. I said in March the next 18 months are going to be the craziest sh-- this generation has ever seen. I do believe from a scientific point of view that we have no more than 30-50 years left here in current form before at the very least a wipeout of 80%+ of the population. I believe 100% in God and trust in Jesus, but my eyes and mind tell me more than anything we don't have long left. Human nature is self-serving. The "easier" we have it, the less we need to cooperate, the less sympathy there is etc. The compounding of technology that has taken place along with human nature lead me to believe a simple mistake can cause the end just as easily as some religious event. However, I do believe God wins in the end or else this is just a pure waste. If it is a waste, then failing to exist after death isn't scary...it just is. You won't know if you were right or wrong. I am amazed at the lack of urgency from most people considering the times we live in. I can't time the end, but if by opening day 2009 there haven't been multiple events that drop your jaw and make you consider what life and/or God is all about, then I'll show up at the TBD tailgate with 5 cases of beer and you can all throw batteries at me. There will be a series of events so serious that will feed off of each other....not a day or an entire war where we lose 3,000 Americans....but stuff is going to go down. The US economy, the war against Islam, the war for oil (different than Islam), microbiology, homeland security, political corruption. I think the US has eaten some bad sushi and we are about to have it come from all ends but soon. The world isn't playing a Milton Bradley game right now. I think when this stuff happens, everyone will have a last chance to turn to God. Who does?...I don't know. I just know what has happened in my life and the statistical odds of certain things happening at certain times being so crazy that there is no other explanation but God. If you follow the Bible, the thing to look out for that should happen soon to trigger the return of Jesus and the chain of events leading up to that is the destruction of Damascus. If you see that happen, it's go time. I don't claim to be a prophet. I just digest data and try to come to logical conclusions. The bible is like a treasure map of prophecy. I don't mind so much if people laugh now, but at least remember the a-hole on the Bills board when stuff goes down. Now calling the Sabres a bunch of flamers that wouldn't get the job done, fall apart, and that the front office is a bunch of con-men and pansies that look down at the Rubes of Buffalo and are only in it for the money or job security...I'll take credit for that one.
Cugalabanza Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 ...but stuff is going to go down. The US economy, the war against Islam, the war for oil (different than Islam), microbiology, homeland security, political corruption. I think the US has eaten some bad sushi and we are about to have it come from all ends but soon. The world isn't playing a Milton Bradley game right now. I think when this stuff happens, everyone will have a last chance to turn to God. Who does?...I don't know. If there is a God, then I don't see the value of having to be broken down to the point of total desperation in order to "turn to him." Reminds me of the old Dennis Miller quote, "nobody finds Jesus on prom night." Sorry, I just expect a little more from an all-powerful deity. Like maybe he could appeal to my sense of reason, for example, instead of house-breaking me like a puppy who peed on his rug. If you want to see me cry and beg, you don't need a god for that. You could achieve the same result with a couple thugs with some rope and a pair of pliers. Doesn't prove a damn thing.
Marv's Neighbor Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 FAITH sells seats and fills the Stadiums.
Cugalabanza Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 FAITH sells seats and fills the Stadiums. So does Hannah Montana.
Cornerville Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 if i have faith that hulk hogan is going to raise my great grandfather from the dead how is that a good reason?????? So tell us what you believe in instead of just being a comedian, or at least 'trying' to
Hazed and Amuzed Posted August 22, 2008 Posted August 22, 2008 If there is a God, then I don't see the value of having to be broken down to the point of total desperation in order to "turn to him." Reminds me of the old Dennis Miller quote, "nobody finds Jesus on prom night." Sorry, I just expect a little more from an all-powerful deity. Like maybe he could appeal to my sense of reason, for example, instead of house-breaking me like a puppy who peed on his rug. If you want to see me cry and beg, you don't need a god for that. You could achieve the same result with a couple thugs with some rope and a pair of pliers. Doesn't prove a damn thing. Unless that same God purposely puts people in the situation of rock bottom so they will turn to him. Some need desperation as a path. Then again, what does that say about their God. Well if it's assumed that God created all then how can we/they question his methods? It's a believers most important element of faith: To trust in God. This is why it is near impossible to convince someone with faith that there might not be a God. The foundation of their belief is just as strong as yours, mine and anyone else's. The way I see it is that a Religious life is a fine way to live and shouldn't bother anyone. While many are hypocrites, there are just as many if not more that are good citizens. It's more of a morality issue then it is a civil. I could care less if my neighbor worshiped a freakin' Beta Max. As long as he's not out being a menace then who really cares? I can talk about this subject all day but I know that I'm not convincing enough to change anyone's mind and I'm okay with that. The problem with any religious conversation is that people get offended when you disagree with them. Look there's no proof of God other then what has been offered in the past i.e. the story of Jesus and etc. At the same time though there is no evidence that we came from apes i.e. The Missing Link. So the truth is that nobody knows and it's my opinion that no one will ever know until they die. So people pick a team and play the game because in death is the only way to determine the winner.
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