outsidethebox Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 i also never made any claim about everything being random and coming together by chance. i have made the claim i dont know how life started because there is little evidence. this is safe ground, and i just wish u can tell me what god is. please. You wouldn't know God if you saw him. I don't understand your question. Who is God? How do I or anyone else know? you are asking a question that can't be answered. This going round and round. I have had fun, know it's time to go. goodbye and good luck.
SAM HARRIS Posted August 27, 2008 Author Posted August 27, 2008 You wouldn't know God if you saw him. I don't understand your question. Who is God? How do I or anyone else know? you are asking a question that can't be answered. This going round and round. I have had fun, know it's time to go. goodbye and good luck. i will say this then if the question cant be answered then i think there might be either a problem with ur convictions or with god existing in the first place.
SAM HARRIS Posted August 27, 2008 Author Posted August 27, 2008 it should b such an easy answer if god loves us and wants us to know him and take part in his plan.... it shouldnt be round and round and round.
Andrew in CA Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 I think the issue you have here SAM is that you need proof to believe in God and can't understand why others don't demand it. I won't speak for others, but I don't think I'm alone in that I don't require proof or physical evidence of God's existence to believe in it. I can't fully explain why I do or how I came to do it- it certainly took me awhile, and I don't belong to any organized religion- but I don't need to see "proof" that He exists to believe it. If you are unsatisfied with that, you are more than welcome to be, and if you wish to seek for more evidence or question the evidence you've been given, that's great. Keep seeking, just don't be overly frustrated when you run into people like me that just don't need to have everything explained in order to believe. Belief is something different than science, it is something different than anything, I feel. I just don't need to prove it.
SAM HARRIS Posted August 27, 2008 Author Posted August 27, 2008 well if u dont intend on proving it than dont preach as if the bible is end all be all. i think thats fair and is in your field on rationality???
Andrew in CA Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 well if u dont intend on proving it than dont preach as if the bible is end all be all. i think thats fair and is in your field on rationality??? Without a doubt, I do not think the Bible is the end all be all. It is one of many access points I have used and continue to use to become closer to God. Now, I don't think you are talking about me personally, because I haven't preached this, but I understand and share your frustration with literal interpretation of the Bible. Personally, I hold the Gospels above all else- the rest is just metaphor, theology (I'm lookin at you, Paul), inspriation, etc. So, yes, that is rational. In fact, I don't think anybody has been talking about the Bible as the end all be all in this thread except you. I think your issue lies with "Evangelicals," whatever that means- Holy Rollers, fire and brimstone people that want to control you rather than bring you closer to God. I have issues with these people as well because I feel their agenda has more to do with control rather than belief, but I must admit I've never encountered one in person that I've been able to have a discourse with. Am I correct?
SAM HARRIS Posted August 27, 2008 Author Posted August 27, 2008 Without a doubt, I do not think the Bible is the end all be all. It is one of many access points I have used and continue to use to become closer to God. Now, I don't think you are talking about me personally, because I haven't preached this, but I understand and share your frustration with literal interpretation of the Bible. Personally, I hold the Gospels above all else- the rest is just metaphor, theology (I'm lookin at you, Paul), inspriation, etc. So, yes, that is rational. In fact, I don't think anybody has been talking about the Bible as the end all be all in this thread except you. I think your issue lies with "Evangelicals," whatever that means- Holy Rollers, fire and brimstone people that want to control you rather than bring you closer to God. I have issues with these people as well because I feel their agenda has more to do with control rather than belief, but I must admit I've never encountered one in person that I've been able to have a discourse with. Am I correct? totally agree and like i said before love is truth and that is the answer its funny if u go to the stadium wall i did a assay on belief and how people respond with the everett thread and when people granted creedence to what i said quickly people became very hostile. this is scary because this is a false thread yet since people believe it...... well just take a look and read the reactions.
eball Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 I just go with the assumption that no one really knows what the hell he/she is talking about, including me. I like that.
Dwight Drane Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 totally agree and like i said before love is truth and that is the answer its funny if u go to the stadium wall i did a assay on belief and how people respond with the everett thread and when people granted creedence to what i said quickly people became very hostile. this is scary because this is a false thread yet since people believe it...... well just take a look and read the reactions. I am SOOOO happy you brought up that point. It seems as if Dr. Cappuchino is now a firm believer in body cooling technology. He knew Everett was toast on the way to the hospital, and his version of a Hail Mary was to try this experimental body cooling he had learned about a few months previous at a conference. At the time he didn't know what to think, but look at Everett now. Here is the problem with science. They look at the cooling of Everett as Hooey. Since body cooling with this specific Alsius device is not in their textbooks, then it can't possibly help anyone. I mean, Kevin Everett is only one person. We need it to work on 50 and be written about in dozens of journals and textbooks to be considered REAL. It's obvious that a skilled surgeon and proper administration of approved steroids are what saved Everett. Don't mind the fact that the lead Dr. said two days after the surgery that Everett would probably never regain the ability to walk. Nevermind that the Dr. has gone on to be yelled at as a quack for saving the life and movement of Everett for thinking outside the box. It wasn't the cooling that worked. And since you say it wasn't God...then what was it? If God isn't proven, and Body Cooling using an internal device isn't proven, then science has to fall back on an even more rediculous answer. It has to explain away something out of the ordinary that happened by relying on proven things that are only secondary support systems. If I were you, I would calm down a little on this subject. You are stressing yourself out. Nobody doesn't like a good beatdown of religion these days, but even the biggest religion haters aren't jumping in right now.
John Adams Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 And since you say it wasn't God...then what was it? If God isn't proven, and Body Cooling using an internal device isn't proven, then science has to fall back on an even more rediculous answer. It has to explain away something out of the ordinary that happened by relying on proven things that are only secondary support systems. Couldn't it just be that the ability to predict outcomes with these types of injuries is beyond the current level of science? When all the early Everett articles were pouring in, I recall reading many times that predicting a person's ability to recover from a neck injury is hard to do.
MattyT Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 And since you say it wasn't God...then what was it? It's obvious that a skilled surgeon and proper administration of approved steroids are what saved Everett.
Dwight Drane Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 Couldn't it just be that the ability to predict outcomes with these types of injuries is beyond the current level of science? When all the early Everett articles were pouring in, I recall reading many times that predicting a person's ability to recover from a neck injury is hard to do. Everett's recovery for his type of injury is off the charts from what I can tell. Traditionalists claim it was Everett's prime physical condition and the standard treatment. I am sure those things helped him. The fact that he was tended to quickly also helps. The fact that he was tended to quickly with an out of the box treatment is propbably the most logical reason behind the amazing recovery time and ability. The Dr. himself at the time knew it was his only hope, and if you watched the initial press conferences, they figured he had a much better chance of dying than walking. Here we are 1 year later, and he is doing so well the Bills might as well sign him the way their roster is looking. I am not even arguing it was God's doing. I'm just showing you dissention in the scientific ranks. Unless many academics are told in a textbook or see 100% evidence, they do not have the nads to admit that something new may have helped somebody. Now if they received grant money for the process or were in on the deal...why sure, it is a miracle cure. I'm not trying to knock science in general...we need it, we use it, in the right minds and hands it is a great tool. I am knocking the same line of thought that there is no God because we can't prove it. Well, if that same kind of person was on staff for the Bills/broncos game last year...Kevin Everett would probably be dead.
Cugalabanza Posted August 27, 2008 Posted August 27, 2008 Everett's recovery... It's true. You can see it on the replay. There is only one set of footprints in the sand all the way to the hospital.
Dwight Drane Posted August 28, 2008 Posted August 28, 2008 It's true. You can see it on the replay. There is only one set of footprints in the sand all the way to the hospital. Way to encourage the ECC kid on Ripped Fuel.
robert Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 i just wish people in general would stop telling us that these books were inspired by god, whatever that means...
cåblelady Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 Wow. I just read this entire thread. It took me 3 cups of coffee to read it all! *LOL* I'd just like to say: God Bless all y'all !
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 30, 2008 Posted August 30, 2008 Wow. I just read this entire thread. It took me 3 cups of coffee to read it all! *LOL* I'd just like to say: God Bless all y'all ! You are granted sainthood sister! I don't dare wallow through... First, I don't drink coffee and second... My head will explode (not that it hasn't in the past).
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