SAM HARRIS Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 great author! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyPdQ-VRjA0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2RMH4VBH4VE...feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8dv7OUKjeE...feature=related listen for a while, and put in your two cents on how good or bad religion is in the 21st century and how it conflicts with science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I can't listen to this stuff at work. However my take is that the entire body of what can be called religious doctrine, all throughout history, is simply a collection of made-up answers to questions that people are afraid to admit they don't have real answers for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM HARRIS Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 I couldnt agree more its just that these beliefs people have could cause ww3 one day if we dont start to scrutinize what is truth and what isnt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I can't listen to this stuff at work. However my take is that the entire body of what can be called religious doctrine, all throughout history, is simply a collection of made-up answers to questions that people are afraid to admit they don't have real answers for. I actually JUST finished listening to it. A buddy of mine has a link to a similar youtube selection which also deals with this notion of the barriers caused by religious taboos. How can a person be considered crazy for believing that Elvis is alive and well in Reno, while 22% of Americans are CERTAIN that Christ will return in their lifetime and it's totally socially disruptive to think of them as kookie outcasts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 How can a person be considered crazy for believing that Elvis is alive and well in Reno, while 22% of Americans are CERTAIN that Christ will return in their lifetime and it's totally socially disruptive to think of them as kookie outcasts? I just go with the assumption that no one really knows what the hell he/she is talking about, including me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Big Cat Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I just go with the assumption that no one really knows what the hell he/she is talking about, including me. Shades of Andy Warhol there, Gringo! Sadly, one can't make the "nobody's perfect" assumption while living in a world where people adamantly believe their ways and ideas are infallable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cugalabanza Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 Sadly, one can't make the "nobody's perfect" assumption while living in a world where people adamantly believe their ways and ideas are infallable. Sure you can, as long as you look at life as a series of absurd but entertaining slapstick misadventures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM HARRIS Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 The apocalypse is coming in 9/2009. Dwight Drane told me so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buford T. Justice Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 The apocalypse is coming in 9/2009. Dwight Drane told me so. Bills go 3-0 in September? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted August 21, 2008 Share Posted August 21, 2008 I actually JUST finished listening to it. A buddy of mine has a link to a similar youtube selection which also deals with this notion of the barriers caused by religious taboos. How can a person be considered crazy for believing that Elvis is alive and well in Reno, while 22% of Americans are CERTAIN that Christ will return in their lifetime and it's totally socially disruptive to think of them as kookie outcasts? While I do believe that Christ will come back, I have my doubts as to whether it will occur in my lifetime. I am 39 years old and figure that if I stay healthy, maybe I will live another 50 years or so. People have been waiting for 2,000 years. Nobody looks at the idea that we may have to wait another 2,000 years. Jesus simply told us to watch and be ready. Any Sunday School or CCD student could tell you that. The problem is that when people feel certain that Christ's return must fit within a particular time frame, as you say. God is simply not subject to human whims and desires. Apparently, the time is not ready yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM HARRIS Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 While I do believe that Christ will come back, I have my doubts as to whether it will occur in my lifetime. I am 39 years old and figure that if I stay healthy, maybe I will live another 50 years or so. People have been waiting for 2,000 years. Nobody looks at the idea that we may have to wait another 2,000 years. Jesus simply told us to watch and be ready. Any Sunday School or CCD student could tell you that. The problem is that when people feel certain that Christ's return must fit within a particular time frame, as you say. God is simply not subject to human whims and desires. Apparently, the time is not ready yet. if god is simply not subject to human understanding then how do u know. ur argument is circular and contradicts itself... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAM HARRIS Posted August 21, 2008 Author Share Posted August 21, 2008 the fact is u think jesus is coming back because a book told u so. sorry but if u told me superman was coming in the near future because a book told u so i think u might be called a idiot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buckeyemike Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 if god is simply not subject to human understanding then how do u know. ur argument is circular and contradicts itself... Faith is the reason. I simply choose to have faith in Christ's return, along with His redemption of my sin and His position as the Son of God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Faith is the reason. I simply choose to have faith in Christ's return. Which is why it conflicts with science. Science is fundamentally based on empiricalism. Religion requires an absence of empiricism. Not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that. Each is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 I can't listen to this stuff at work. However my take is that the entire body of what can be called religious doctrine, all throughout history, is simply a collection of made-up answers to questions that people are afraid to admit they don't have real answers for. So? That, in my opinion, is one of the *best* aspects of religion. It has an ability to provide comfort. Try for a minute to imagine what it would be like to die and simply cease to exist. I'm not sure that's even fathomable. Having an answer (however correct) can make life much more enjoyable. I think religion in it's *purest* sense is a good thing. However true all of the stories are, if people truly modeled their lives after Jesus, we'd live in a much better world. The problems arise when politics and extremists mix in. Hell, hypocrites that leave Sunday Mass and proceed to cut off other drivers and ignore humanity as a whole... *they* are a problem. They show up so they can tell their neighbors they were there. Whatever my personal beliefs are... I can see that there are benefits. There are clearly downsides, though... can't argue that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 1) I don't believe in anything other than God. And I call this higher power God because it's a convenient name, although its not the God thought of by the Christian Church or any other Church. But I've seen some things (the birth of a human baby for example) that despite having scientific explanations are still miracles. 2) Why can't everyone just admit that of all the religions in this world, at the absolute most, only ONE can be right -- and even that's a stretch. 3) If religion makes someone happy, so be it. To each their own. But if a religion refuses to let others be happy (see Catholicism and homosexuals, Catholicism and divorcees, etc) that's a bigger problem. 4) To those waiting on the return of Christ: be prepared to be disappointed. If he shows up again, you do realize what human kind will do to him, correct? Kill him just like they did the first time (if that's what you believe). Let's look at David Koresh. He claimed to be the final prophet. He had a legion of followers. And what happened to him? Am I saying he was the next coming of Christ? Of course not. But just imagine the consequences for anyone who professes that they are "Christ". Either death or the loony bin. 5) I like to keep an open mind. To me, if there's a heaven, I'm being just good enough a person to get into the lawn seats. And if its heaven, that's gotta still be a pretty good show. To those dedicating their life to a specific religion, let them have the front row center. They've worked for it. I just don't have the dedication. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcjeff215 Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 3) If religion makes someone happy, so be it. To each their own. But if a religion refuses to let others be happy (see Catholicism and homosexuals, Catholicism and divorcees, etc) that's a bigger problem. Right... if it's comforting, let them enjoy it. Catholicism is mild compared to some of the churches I've seen down here in Georgia. I'd lived here about a month when a friend asked me to go do something on a Thursday night. He didn't tell me what it was until we got there. A surprise Baptist service because he felt I needed to be saved! I went out of respect for him, not a problem at all. Though, I think the phrase 'fags are going to hell' was said about 56 times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon in Pasadena Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 hypocrites that leave Sunday Mass and proceed to cut off other drivers and ignore humanity as a whole... *they* are a problem. They show up so they can tell their neighbors they were there.Word. The other day I'm driving behind some ritzy BMW with a large X-ian "fish" emblem blazoned on the trunk, and the !@#$tard tosses his lit ciggy out the window. And people wonder why Griffith park seems to burn down every two days this summer. But at least he didn't get his ashtray full of ashes or anything, God forbid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew in CA Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 1) I don't believe in anything other than God. And I call this higher power God because it's a convenient name, although its not the God thought of by the Christian Church or any other Church. But I've seen some things (the birth of a human baby for example) that despite having scientific explanations are still miracles. 2) Why can't everyone just admit that of all the religions in this world, at the absolute most, only ONE can be right -- and even that's a stretch. 3) If religion makes someone happy, so be it. To each their own. But if a religion refuses to let others be happy (see Catholicism and homosexuals, Catholicism and divorcees, etc) that's a bigger problem. 4) To those waiting on the return of Christ: be prepared to be disappointed. If he shows up again, you do realize what human kind will do to him, correct? Kill him just like they did the first time (if that's what you believe). Let's look at David Koresh. He claimed to be the final prophet. He had a legion of followers. And what happened to him? Am I saying he was the next coming of Christ? Of course not. But just imagine the consequences for anyone who professes that they are "Christ". Either death or the loony bin. 5) I like to keep an open mind. To me, if there's a heaven, I'm being just good enough a person to get into the lawn seats. And if its heaven, that's gotta still be a pretty good show. To those dedicating their life to a specific religion, let them have the front row center. They've worked for it. I just don't have the dedication. I like a lot of your points, especially the first. I don't pretend to know exactly what it is, but I am 100% sure there is a "higher power," for lack of a better term. For 4, though, we disagree. When Christ comes back, for good, we will know it. There will be no mistaking it. He told us to watch out for a ton of phonies, so I'm not shocked when they show up. But when He comes back again, it will be Judgment Day, the End of Times as we know it. Again, I don't pretend to know what will happen exactly, but I know we'll all be sure (though it probably won't be for a long, long time). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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