Do folks think the Bills should develop a rep as harda** negotiators?

[Hazed and Amuzed]

NFL teams can sign a contract and breach it with virtually no downside.

 

 

Before we decide that the Bills should take a hardline stance when negotiating holdouts, can anyone cite an example of when that tactic worked for the benefit of the team? Every holdout I've looked into has either ended in the player getting paid or the player being traded then paid.

 

How can we say the Bills hold all the cards when the stradegy the Bills are using has never been successful.

 

 

 

Chad Johnson

I know he didn't hold-out but he laid out the threat and the Bengals did not budge and when he came to camp he got his reneg.

[Kelly the Dog]

Kelly, do you really believe Parker asked for a new contract for Peters and the Bills said "F**k you?"

I really believe, and would bet on it, that Parker asked for a new contract that would pay Peters in the top 2-4 in the league, and the Bills intimated that they want him badly but were unwilling to pay him that kind of money this year.

 

Parker and Peters then took the stance of, it needs to be this year, because that is what he is worth this year. You did it with Schobel. You paid Dockery 50 mil before he played a down.

 

The entire thing could have lasted ten seconds. Parker could have said, "Russ, we're looking at Jake Long money." And Russ could have said, "We love Jason. But he has three years left on the generous deal we gave him. Give us another Pro Bowl type year and Jason will be taken care of for life."

 

That's all that needed to be said for everything we have seen to have happened.

[cody]

Chad Johnson

I know he didn't hold-out but he laid out the threat and the Bengals did not budge and when he came to camp he got his reneg.

 

We could easily identify dozens of players who handled the situation better than Peters. I do not like holdouts, but I think they have been effective.

 

If the Bills refuse to negotiate, Peters will not play. Then what do we do?

[Hazed and Amuzed]

We could easily identify dozens of players who handled the situation better than Peters. I do not like holdouts, but I think they have been effective.

 

If the Bills refuse to negotiate, Peters will not play. Then what do we do?

 

They're not refusing though. They just want him in camp before they reneg. I am all for Peters getting more cash but he has no leverege and is ruining his career. The Bills have time(lord willing) to find another pro bowl LT(lord willing again) in the near and distant future, Jason Peters only has one career and he's ruining it.

[cody]

They're not refusing though. They just want him in camp before they reneg. I am all for Peters getting more cash but he has no leverege and is ruining his career. The Bills have time(lord willing) to find another pro bowl LT(lord willing again) in the near and distant future, Jason Peters only has one career and he's ruining it.

 

If they are willing to pay him, why not just do what the Rams did. Negotiate, get to a range where both sides feel like the deal will happen. Then, when he reports, cross the 'i's and dot the 't's.

[eball]

NFL teams can sign a contract and breach it with virtually no downside.

I'm tired of hearing this argument raised as rationale for players holding out. The reality is NFL teams don't cut star players, or players who are performing up to the standards of the contracts they sign. They cut players who have underperformed their deals (or misbehaved outside of football). Players are protected by the guaranteed money they get up front. This is not as one-sided as you'd like to have us believe.

 

What is happening right now between the Bills and Peters' agent is, I believe, pretty unique. You've got a player not even halfway through his contract taking a demonstrative stance that he needs to be paid, now. That is very different than the stance commonly taken by players in the last year of their deals (i.e., Steven Jackson).

 

I don't have time to do the research, but I'd be interested to know how many other examples of this sort of holdout have occurred in the recent era of the NFL. By "this sort of holdout" I'm talking about a very good player holding out before his contract is halfway over.

[Steely Dan]

I really believe, and would bet on it, that Parker asked for a new contract that would pay Peters in the top 2-4 in the league, and the Bills intimated that they want him badly but were unwilling to pay him that kind of money this year.

 

Parker and Peters then took the stance of, it needs to be this year, because that is what he is worth this year. You did it with Schobel. You paid Dockery 50 mil before he played a down.

 

The entire thing could have lasted ten seconds. Parker could have said, "Russ, we're looking at Jake Long money." And Russ could have said, "We love Jason. But he has three years left on the generous deal we gave him. Give us another Pro Bowl type year and Jason will be taken care of for life."

 

That's all that needed to be said for everything we have seen to have happened.

 

I don't think so. Brandon said it's very difficult to get Peter's agent on the phone. I think he said it would be easier to talk to a Gitmo prisoner.

 

I think they want a new contract and the Bills have said to get him into camp and we'll talk and the agent wants a deal before that because he thinks a holdout will get him a better contract.

[Kelly the Dog]

I don't think so. Brandon said it's very difficult to get Peter's agent on the phone. I think he said it would be easier to talk to a Gitmo prisoner.

 

I think they want a new contract and the Bills have said to get him into camp and we'll talk and the agent wants a deal before that because he thinks a holdout will get him a better contract.

How many different bona fide established reporters do you need to convince you that is just not true? The Bills are not considering under any circumstances renegotiating his deal for this year. Whether he is in camp or not. Different reporters, local and national, are all saying the exact same thing.

 

Brandon hasn't called the agent once for all we know. They spoke while they were in the same room discussing Hardy's contract and at least once before where Parker must have made his demands known. Brandon has repeatedly said we're not talking to the agent. He has tried to call PETERS himself a few times, to try to convince him to come in, he hasn't called the agent (unless Brandon is lying, which I doubt). There is nothing to talk to the agent about from Brandon's POV.

[eball]

I really believe, and would bet on it, that Parker asked for a new contract that would pay Peters in the top 2-4 in the league, and the Bills intimated that they want him badly but were unwilling to pay him that kind of money this year.

 

Parker and Peters then took the stance of, it needs to be this year, because that is what he is worth this year. You did it with Schobel. You paid Dockery 50 mil before he played a down.

 

The entire thing could have lasted ten seconds. Parker could have said, "Russ, we're looking at Jake Long money." And Russ could have said, "We love Jason. But he has three years left on the generous deal we gave him. Give us another Pro Bowl type year and Jason will be taken care of for life."

 

That's all that needed to be said for everything we have seen to have happened.

Actually, Kelly, I think the conversation probably went something like this:

 

Parker: Hey Russ, you know I'm representing Jason now, right?

 

Russ: Oh really, how did that happen?

 

Parker: Well, you see, I follow the NFL pretty closely. My people told me Jason is a young hotshot at LT so I figured it's time to cash in. After I had my people tell him his agent got him a crappy contract, he fired the bum and hired me.

 

Russ: I see. How can I help you?

 

Parker: Jason just made the Pro Bowl as a LT, but you're paying him chump change.

 

Russ: We just gave Jason a huge raise two years ago, and he has three years left on his deal. If he plays this year like he did in 2007, we plan to look at an extension.

 

Parker: But Russ, I can't go to my brand new client and tell him he fired his old agent for nothing...you know?

 

Russ: Not my problem, Eugene. We love Jason and hope he's a Buffalo Bill for the rest of his career, but here's the deal -- he has only one full year at the position, and he's coming off an injury to boot. Before we throw top 5 money at him, we need to see the consistency of another year at the position. It's not as if he's on welfare with his current deal.

 

Parker: I'm telling Jason to stay out of camp until you change your position.

 

Russ: That's disappointing, but we think we're being fair.

 

Parker: We've got nothing more to talk about.

[Kelly the Dog]

Actually, Kelly, I think the conversation probably went something like this:

 

Parker: Hey Russ, you know I'm representing Jason now, right?

 

Russ: Oh really, how did that happen?

 

Parker: Well, you see, I follow the NFL pretty closely. My people told me Jason is a young hotshot at LT so I figured it's time to cash in. After I had my people tell him his agent got him a crappy contract, he fired the bum and hired me.

 

Russ: I see. How can I help you?

 

Parker: Jason just made the Pro Bowl as a LT, but you're paying him chump change.

 

Russ: We just gave Jason a huge raise two years ago, and he has three years left on his deal. If he plays this year like he did in 2007, we plan to look at an extension.

 

Parker: But Russ, I can't go to my brand new client and tell him he fired his old agent for nothing...you know?

 

Russ: Not my problem, Eugene. We love Jason and hope he's a Buffalo Bill for the rest of his career, but here's the deal -- he has only one full year at the position, and he's coming off an injury to boot. Before we throw top 5 money at him, we need to see the consistency of another year at the position. It's not as if he's on welfare with his current deal.

 

Parker: I'm telling Jason to stay out of camp until you change your position.

 

Russ: That's disappointing, but we think we're being fair.

 

Parker: We've got nothing more to talk about.

That exchange makes Parker sound like a moron and history says he's not.

[eball]

That exchange makes Parker sound like a moron and history says he's not.

It was obviously tongue in cheek, but that is basically what has happened, has it not? Parker convinced Peters to hire him on the promise he'd "cash in" on the next contract. Brandon told Parker, earlier this year, that the Bills expected Peters to play under his current deal in 2008. End of story.

[Kelly the Dog]

It was obviously tongue in cheek, but that is basically what has happened, has it not? Parker convinced Peters to hire him on the promise he'd "cash in" on the next contract. Brandon told Parker, earlier this year, that the Bills expected Peters to play under his current deal in 2008. End of story.

Yeah, I agree with that. Although I don't necessarily believe that Parker convinced Peters he would be able to cash in this year, or that he was conning Peters in any way. It's possible though, no one here is privvy to that. I actually think that Parker himself doesn't believe the Bills will cave. He is just playing a multi-tiered strategy. That is just conjecture though.

[cody]

It was obviously tongue in cheek, but that is basically what has happened, has it not? Parker convinced Peters to hire him on the promise he'd "cash in" on the next contract. Brandon told Parker, earlier this year, that the Bills expected Peters to play under his current deal in 2008. End of story.

 

I think you are exactly right about what happened/is happening. As a Bills fan, I do not like how this is going to end.

Jason Peters presented the Bills with a difficult problem. I do not think the Bills' solution to that problem is going to help this team win.

I'm thinking about Sept. 7, I'm thinking about January, I'm thinking about '09 & '10. I do not care if the Bills 'cave in' as long as they win football games.

[eball]

Yeah, I agree with that. Although I don't necessarily believe that Parker convinced Peters he would be able to cash in this year, or that he was conning Peters in any way. It's possible though, no one here is privvy to that. I actually think that Parker himself doesn't believe the Bills will cave. He is just playing a multi-tiered strategy. That is just conjecture though.

I don't think Parker conned Peters -- I think he probably tortiously interfered with Peters' relationship with his prior agent.

 

Make no mistake -- Parker will look bad if Peters doesn't get more money this year, particularly after pulling such a visible stunt (the holdout).

 

I think Peters is probably embarrassed right about now. He just doesn't realize that the Eugene Parkers of the world are not what he needs to become a top paid lineman in this league.

[Pyrite Gal]

I'm tired of hearing this argument raised as rationale for players holding out. The reality is NFL teams don't cut star players, or players who are performing up to the standards of the contracts they sign. They cut players who have underperformed their deals (or misbehaved outside of football). Players are protected by the guaranteed money they get up front. This is not as one-sided as you'd like to have us believe.

 

What is happening right now between the Bills and Peters' agent is, I believe, pretty unique. You've got a player not even halfway through his contract taking a demonstrative stance that he needs to be paid, now. That is very different than the stance commonly taken by players in the last year of their deals (i.e., Steven Jackson).

 

I don't have time to do the research, but I'd be interested to know how many other examples of this sort of holdout have occurred in the recent era of the NFL. By "this sort of holdout" I'm talking about a very good player holding out before his contract is halfway over.

I hope someone does do this piece of research based on more knowledge of the situations than I have to make this more than a leviathan task.

 

I agree that this is a unique situation because the Peters play strikes me as pretty unique. It seems relatively rare you would have a UDFA who was a TE get a spot on a roster at tackle and quickly prove not only to be capable of starting at tackle but at the difficult to fill LT position. In fact, this unique quality of play was so good that this youngster is voted in as the starting LT in the AFC on the Pro Bowl squad.

 

This is one of the reason why the worry about setting a precedent by extending his contract so soon after extending his contract seems fairly specious to me.

 

If some other player also makes the Pro Bowl after being taken as a UDFA then I suggest showing them the money and signing them long term as well. This precedent seems fine to me and if the Bills do this, it strikes me as not being a precedent which makes any sense for other Bills to demand we follow.

[BillsVet]

I don't think Parker conned Peters -- I think he probably tortiously interfered with Peters' relationship with his prior agent.

 

Make no mistake -- Parker will look bad if Peters doesn't get more money this year, particularly after pulling such a visible stunt (the holdout).

 

I think Peters is probably embarrassed right about now. He just doesn't realize that the Eugene Parkers of the world are not what he needs to become a top paid lineman in this league.

 

Again, we're going with the "Jason Peters is an idiot" theory to explain why he's not practicing. Actually, agents are hired to obtain the largest contract-as you well know. Peters knows he's underpaid. Parker does too. So does the Bills' front office. If Peters truly was embarrassed, he would have fired his agent, reported to camp, and agreed to play 2008 at his current salary. That this continues is a testament to their resolve, which may or may not grow after today's game.

 

Parker's success is a product of his ability to wring more money out of teams by leverage his client's participation. I don't agree with it, but it's successful and Peters knows full well who's representing him and their strategy. To claim he's a loyal knuckle dragging stooge is blantantly misdiagnosing the entire situation.

 

My question to you is: How does an underpaid premier NFL player obtain a new contract when they have 2-3 years remaining on their current deal?

[Nanker]

Well, he did score a 9 on the Wonderlic. That is a fact.

He agent isn't getting paid until Jason gets a new deal. That is a fact.

Jason is getting fined daily for not showing up. That is a fact.

He can sit out as long as he wants, and he won't get his $187,500.00 weekly paychecks beginning Sept. 7th either.

 

Jason's "problem" is that he never got any wild azz rookie signing bonus money.

His only chance to get something like that is to play ball with The Bills - or in retrospect - to never have signed the old extension unless it was suitable to his liking (apparently there was a Lou Cabrazzi character in the room when he signed the papers - and he was assured his brains or his signature would be on the contract.

 

You really think that he and his agent are saying, "Boy! We've really got them just where we want them now!"?

His holdout has damaged the team and his personal integrity.

He's collecting boils on his backside with his current strategy.

 

I blame it all on the lack of an imposed rookie pay scale. The top 10 are getting foolishly large guaranteed money without ever proving they can play at the pro level, and veterans who have done that are jealous of the jack they and the team-hopping mercenaries are getting.

[eball]

My question to you is: How does an underpaid premier NFL player obtain a new contract when they have 2-3 years remaining on their current deal?

First of all -- this situation is unique. How many undrafted free agents make a roster, impress the team enough to earn a BIG raise and extension, and then continue to improve to All-Pro level at a rapid rate? I can count the number of times I've seen this happen on one finger. So let's dispel the myth that this is a "typical" renegotiation.

 

I disagree with the holdout strategy and believe it came about SOLELY because somebody convinced Peters he needed a new "big-time" agent. That is the key factor not many are willing to address. Parker makes nothing -- zero, squat -- until he gets Peters a new deal. There's your pressure point.

 

By all accounts, Peters is a good guy. Mild-mannered, great teammate, doesn't make waves, and wants to win. I firmly believe this holdout is not his idea, and when I say he's probably embarrassed, I don't mean he's an idiot -- I mean he wants to be there but is in an uncomfortable position. I've read where people think he should tell Parker to "take a hike" and report, but that's not likely to happen. Peters is not a sophisticated businessman, and I'm sure he has been reassured by Parker "I know what I'm doing." How many people question their lawyers when being given advice?

 

So, to answer your question -- I don't know. But I do know that the current path taken by Peters and Parker hasn't exactly resulted in anything productive, which is reason enough to question the tactics.

[The Senator]

Jason's "problem" is that he never got any wild azz rookie signing bonus money.

His only chance to get something like that is to play ball with The Bills - or in retrospect - to never have signed the old extension unless it was suitable to his liking (apparently there was a Lou Cabrazzi character in the room when he signed the papers - and he was assured his brains or his signature would be on the contract.

Luca Brasi sleeps with the fishes.