Is McCain as shallow as George W. Bush?

[JK2000]

According to whom?

 

Bush himself-

 

[i]Well, I had just been told by Andrew Card that America was under attack. And I was collecting my thoughts. And I was sitting with a bunch of young kids, and I made the decision there that we would let this part of the program finish, and then I would calmly stand up and thank the teacher and thank the children and go take care of business[/i]

[Chef Jim]

Point made and accepted. But what the hell is wrong with him saying what he was thinking at the point. That sounds quite reasonable to me.

[DC Tom]

I don't know, maybe he would have liked TO HAVE BEEN BRIEFED ON WHAT THE HELL WAS GOING ON! What was the attack? Where was it? Was it a nuclear attack? What about the casualties? For all he knew we could have been in the process of being nuked to hell that morning. It seems like the only defense that you Bush apologists have left is that the President/Commander in Chief is really an unnessary position and anything that GWB could have done would only have gotten in the way. Be proud of the low standards you've set for the presidency.

 

You think he should have interrupted everyone else's work to make sure he understood what they were doing. All this proves is that you know nothing about leadership. When the Director of the FAA is grounding all air travel and coordinating with NORAD to intercept airliners in flight, you think his first course of action should instead be to brief the President? And what would that brief be? "Two planes hit the WTC, we don't know what's going on."

 

Bush is not much of a leader...but he has an infinitely better understanding of leadership than you do.

[JK2000]

You think he should have interrupted everyone else's work to make sure he understood what they were doing. All this proves is that you know nothing about leadership. When the Director of the FAA is grounding all air travel and coordinating with NORAD to intercept airliners in flight, you think his first course of action should instead be to brief the President? And what would that brief be? "Two planes hit the WTC, we don't know what's going on."

 

Bush is not much of a leader...but he has an infinitely better understanding of leadership than you do.

 

You're spinning is out of control. So now your definition of leadership is stunned inaction?

[DC Tom]

You're spinning is out of control. So now your definition of leadership is stunned inaction?

 

Spinning? I haven't changed a single thing I've said. Sitting and waiting for the people under you to sort things out so they HAVE something to tell you about a situation you can't directly impact anyway is perfectly acceptable leadership. It's not "stunned" inaction. You just don't like the image of not doing anything...even if it's not only entirely appropriate action, but the only appropriate action. Your understanding of the nature of leadership is laughably pitiful. It's obvious you've never come close to exercising anything resembling such.

[JK2000]

Spinning? I haven't changed a single thing I've said. Sitting and waiting for the people under you to sort things out so they HAVE something to tell you about a situation you can't directly impact anyway is perfectly acceptable leadership. It's not "stunned" inaction.

 

Look up the definition of spinning, moron. A situation he couldn't directly impact? What about authorizing the Air Force to shoot down any hijacked planes? Constitutionally he's the only person who can give that order.

 

You just don't like the image of not doing anything...even if it's not only entirely appropriate action, but the only appropriate action. Your understanding of the nature of leadership is laughably pitiful. It's obvious you've never come close to exercising anything resembling such.

 

It's not the "image" of him not doing anything that upsets people it's the

. Watch the video and tell me if that's what leadership looks like. Not once did it go through his mind "Gee, I should probably leave this insignificant photo-op and find out what Andy meant by 'under attack"?". That's leadership to you?

[DC Tom]

Look up the definition of spinning, moron. A situation he couldn't directly impact? What about authorizing the Air Force to shoot down any hijacked planes? Constitutionally he's the only person who can give that order.

 

 

 

It's not the "image" of him not doing anything that upsets people it's the

. Watch the video and tell me if that's what leadership looks like. Not once did it go through his mind "Gee, I should probably leave this insignificant photo-op and find out what Andy meant by 'under attack"?". That's leadership to you?

 

You are a very silly and stupid little boy. You should come back and argue when you're not hindered by your immaturity and ignorance of the subject.

[erynthered]

Please tell me this thread is not finished. I'm was so so so much enjoying it.

[/dev/null]

Please tell me this thread is not finished. I'm was so so so much enjoying it.

This thread does have the same quality as a horrible car wreck that you drive by and just have to look at even tho you shouldn't

[DC Tom]

This thread does have the same quality as a horrible car wreck that you drive by and just have to look at even tho you shouldn't

 

I'm holding out for a "clown balancing on a beach ball" analogy, or regression is caused by error inherent in long-tailed dinosaurs, or something similar.

 

 

Hey JK...what do you think of Rumsfeld's leadership on 9/11? Plane hits the Pentagon, and he's right outside helping evacuate and triage the wounded...that's a man of action, there. A real leader. Right?

[stuckincincy]

Look up the definition of spinning, moron. A situation he couldn't directly impact? What about authorizing the Air Force to shoot down any hijacked planes? Constitutionally he's the only person who can give that order.

 

 

 

It's not the "image" of him not doing anything that upsets people it's the

. Watch the video and tell me if that's what leadership looks like. Not once did it go through his mind "Gee, I should probably leave this insignificant photo-op and find out what Andy meant by 'under attack"?". That's leadership to you?

 

What about the children there? You would be screaming about that if he bolted out.

[GG]

What about the children there? You would be screaming about that if he bolted out.

 

All I can picture is George Costanza running away from the fire, pushing the kids away.

[JK2000]

Hey JK...what do you think of Rumsfeld's leadership on 9/11? Plane hits the Pentagon, and he's right outside helping evacuate and triage the wounded...that's a man of action, there. A real leader. Right?

 

If that's true Rumsfeld deserves credit. I'm not sure if I'm missing some sarcasm here though.

 

What about the children there? You would be screaming about that if he bolted out.

 

So his only choices were to sit there like a dope or to terrify the children by bolting out of the school like a mad man?

 

All I can picture is George Costanza running away from the fire, pushing the kids away.

 

Hahahahahaha, that was what I thought too!

[Alaska Darin]

So using the phones/faxes/videoconferencing from washington was a better way to handle the situation as opposed to using the same technology from Bejing?

Because in today's world, it's apparently a sign of weakness to be able to do your job from anywhere on the goddamn planet. It is not, however, a sign of weakness to abandon foriegn trips and run back to your country at the first sign of any trouble.

 

You need to be in your office, appearing Presidential. Because the office itself is really goddamn important.

 

Unless you're Bill Clinton and you're getting blowjobs from interns in the same office. Then the office and what's supposed to go on there isn't all that big a deal.

 

!@#$ing Liberals.

[DC Tom]

If that's true Rumsfeld deserves credit. I'm not sure if I'm missing some sarcasm here though.

 

It is true - it was widely reported at the time, as you probably would have heard if you hadn't been so focused on six minutes of schoolroom storytelling.

 

And what you're missing is that that was probably the MOST irresponsible thing he could have done. Rumsfeld deserved a swift kick in the ass for the way he acted. As the civilian representative of the entire military, in the middle of a serious attack on the country, with the highest headquarters of the nation's military disabled and damaged...you think he deserves credit for abandoning his responsibilities by rushing in to a crash site to play fireman? You think that's good leadership?

 

You think Rumsfeld deserves credit for jumping in to the middle of a disaster scene, abandoning his job and putting himself out of communication and in danger at a time when he was most needed for control and coordination. You think Bush deserves censure for not jumping into the middle of a shitstorm and disrupting everything but instead letting his staff sort things out for a few minutes. Again, you seem to think that jumping up and rushing for the exits shouting "Sancho, my armor!" is somehow proper leadership. That is why it's clear you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Don Quixote was considered insane for a reason.

[Alaska Darin]

It is true - it was widely reported at the time, as you probably would have heard if you hadn't been so focused on six minutes of schoolroom storytelling.

 

And what you're missing is that that was probably the MOST irresponsible thing he could have done. Rumsfeld deserved a swift kick in the ass for the way he acted. As the civilian representative of the entire military, in the middle of a serious attack on the country, with the highest headquarters of the nation's military disabled and damaged...you think he deserves credit for abandoning his responsibilities by rushing in to a crash site to play fireman? You think that's good leadership?

 

You think Rumsfeld deserves credit for jumping in to the middle of a disaster scene, abandoning his job and putting himself out of communication and in danger at a time when he was most needed for control and coordination. You think Bush deserves censure for not jumping into the middle of a shitstorm and disrupting everything but instead letting his staff sort things out for a few minutes. Again, you seem to think that jumping up and rushing for the exits shouting "Sancho, my armor!" is somehow proper leadership. That is why it's clear you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Don Quixote was considered insane for a reason.

Thank you very much. You saved me a ton of typing.

 

Knowing your !@#$ing role is as much a part of leadership as decision making.

[JK2000]

It is true - it was widely reported at the time, as you probably would have heard if you hadn't been so focused on six minutes of schoolroom storytelling.

 

And what you're missing is that that was probably the MOST irresponsible thing he could have done. Rumsfeld deserved a swift kick in the ass for the way he acted. As the civilian representative of the entire military, in the middle of a serious attack on the country, with the highest headquarters of the nation's military disabled and damaged...you think he deserves credit for abandoning his responsibilities by rushing in to a crash site to play fireman? You think that's good leadership?

 

You think Rumsfeld deserves credit for jumping in to the middle of a disaster scene, abandoning his job and putting himself out of communication and in danger at a time when he was most needed for control and coordination. You think Bush deserves censure for not jumping into the middle of a shitstorm and disrupting everything but instead letting his staff sort things out for a few minutes. Again, you seem to think that jumping up and rushing for the exits shouting "Sancho, my armor!" is somehow proper leadership. That is why it's clear you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. Don Quixote was considered insane for a reason.

 

Oh but according to you Rumsfeld would just have been getting in the way of all the work being done by his subordinates.

 

Knowing your !@#$ing role is as much a part of leadership as decision making.

 

Apparently GWB's "!@#$ing role" was to finish reading his children's book instead of finding out what Card meant by "America is under attack".

[Chef Jim]

Oh but according to you Rumsfeld would just have been getting in the way of all the work being done by his subordinates.

 

 

 

Apparently GWB's "!@#$ing role" was to finish reading his children's book instead of finding out what Card meant by "America is under attack".

 

How long did FDR think and ponder the situation on December 7th before he acted? What would have been the correct time? Two minutes? Ninety seconds? Four and three quarters minutes? We need to know.

[DC Tom]

How long did FDR think and ponder the situation on December 7th before he acted? What would have been the correct time? Two minutes? Ninety seconds? Four and three quarters minutes? We need to know.

 

He was in the White House at the time, so that's different.

 

 

He was irresponsible, though, for going to Warm Springs at any time during the war. Hell, if he hadn't been there on November 29th, 1941, when his advisors had advised him that Japan was going to attack in the Pacific and Tojo, he would have handled things better and Pearl Harbor never would have happened!

[JK2000]

He was in the White House at the time, so that's different.

 

 

He was irresponsible, though, for going to Warm Springs at any time during the war. Hell, if he hadn't been there on November 29th, 1941, when his advisors had advised him that Japan was going to attack in the Pacific and Tojo, he would have handled things better and Pearl Harbor never would have happened!

 

So are you really going to try and compare the job performance and crisis handling of FDR, who was one of the best Presidents this country has ever had, with that of GWB? Really? If Bush was doing as good of a job as FDR did he could take all the vacation he wants.