Is McCain as shallow as George W. Bush?

[DC Tom]

Swatted down by the grown-ups? Are you reading the same thread as I am? All DC Tom can do is try to change the topic by making rediculous analogies to non-congruent situations. Could these be talking points? No, only the DNC makes talking points, right? Oversimplifying and leaving out information? What did I leave out? What did Bush do about the August 6th PDB between 8-6-01 and 9-10-01 that I left out? What did Bush do for the first 2 days of Katrina (besides playing guitar) that I left out? If he was so engaged in the events on the ground why would Dan Bartlett have to make a DVD of Katrina's news coverage? No one has been able to refute the substance of any of this!

 

 

Can you even read? Seriously?

 

 

Oversimplifying and leaving out information? What did I leave out? What did Bush do about the August 6th PDB between 8-6-01 and 9-10-01 that I left out?

 

I'm assuming this was unintentionally ironic?

[SilverNRed]

Swatted down by the grown-ups?

Yes. You've painted an extremely one-sided version of the Katrina response and never responded to the debunked Katrina myths link on page 1. You got embarassed a few pages back when you got tangled up trying to define leadership given Bush and Rumsfeld's actions on 9/11. And you've never given up trying to convince the rest of the board that there is such a thing as the President of the United States being "on vacation."

 

You've managed to fill 10 pages repeating the same oversimplified points that have been refuted a few times over. And now you're even trying to pretend that anyone here has ever said that the Democrats are the only party with talking points. Keep at it.

[Taro T]

Swatted down by the grown-ups? Are you reading the same thread as I am? All DC Tom can do is try to change the topic by making rediculous analogies to non-congruent situations. Could these be talking points? No, only the DNC makes talking points, right? Oversimplifying and leaving out information? What did I leave out? What did Bush do about the August 6th PDB between 8-6-01 and 9-10-01 that I left out? What did Bush do for the first 2 days of Katrina (besides playing guitar) that I left out? If he was so engaged in the events on the ground why would Dan Bartlett have to make a DVD of Katrina's news coverage? No one has been able to refute the substance of any of this!

Molton,

 

After you get banned AGAIN, what will your new screen name be? I'm thinking about setting up a preemptive "ignore".

 

That you get your kicks out of being this willfully ignorant is truly pathetic.

[JK2000]

A "talking point" is basically where you oversimplify a complex situation, purposely leave out information, or flat out lie as part of a concise little slogan that you can repeat over and over to score political points.

 

Seems you know quite a bit about talking points!

 

Is this your own thoughts regarding John Edwards?

He's less of a scumbag because he didn't make a life for himself by chasing ambulances and promoting class warfare as a politician.

Sounds a little like this

And this

And there's even more!

 

Look like someone got the RNC John Edwards talking points............

 

And doesn't your lame excuse for John McCain's infidelity.....

Coming back from war and readjusting to normal life is hard even when you're not a former POW.

sound a little like

 

"Great" minds think alike right?

 

And what about this gem-

Second, no matter how much you fudge the numbers, properly inflated tires do not make up for "all the oil" that people want to drill for in American territory.

 

There's no way this could be from the RNC website, right?

 

Now who's the one parroting talking points?

 

You've managed to fill 10 pages repeating the same oversimplified points that have been refuted a few times over. And now you're even trying to pretend that anyone here has ever said that the Democrats are the only party with talking points. Keep at it.

 

Simply saying "Presidents don't take real vacations" is not refuting Bush's inaction, it's a (dare I say) TALKING POINT!!!!!!!

 

Yes. You've painted an extremely one-sided version of the Katrina response and never responded to the debunked Katrina myths link on page 1.

And what exactly in that article refutes my assertion that George Bush didn't have a clue what was going on in New Orleans until 2 days later? I didn't see his name mentioned once.

[RI Bills Fan]

Hell, neither do I...because the left isn't in power, so the wacky rightists are relatively calm.

 

Wait until Obama wins the White House, and people here start levelling mindless criticism towards him. Maybe then judge.

 

The bolded part is some kind of a joke, right?

 

Ya Know, Tommie Boy, I think I'm gonna save this post until after the elections, and if Obama wins I'll compare the criticism then to the mindless drivel the RNC Parrots I mentioned earlier are posting now and see if the AD responses are any different.

 

As it stands today according to 3/4 of this board Obama is a Muslim Socialist Terrorist who wants to raise taxes on what is left of America after he and his wife betray the country to AQ during his Inaguration Speech, but only after he takes his oath of office on the Quran, and chooses the best looking blonde female interns for his harem.

 

I mean I'm not even convinced he can win the election (you seem to be however) and even if he does the Wacka, SilverNRed, SDJarhead, VABills, StuckInCincy, ETC, ETC, crowd are going to have a very hard time toping the brainless nonsense they're attacking him with now.

[SilverNRed]

Seems you know quite a bit about talking points!

 

Is this your own thoughts regarding John Edwards?

 

Sounds a little like this

And this

And there's even more!

 

Look like someone got the RNC John Edwards talking points............

Thank you for providing links that I've never read and accusing me of stealing those ideas. Edwards' ridiculous history as a trial lawyer and his vapid "Two Americas" populist nonsense are well-documented. I drew my conclusions from what I know about him. And if you search the board (you know how to do that right?), you'll see I haven't said a whole lot about him over the last 4 years.

 

But good job Googling people who may have had similar opinions. That proves a ton.

 

And doesn't your lame excuse for John McCain's infidelity.....

 

sound a little like

 

"Great" minds think alike right?

I've never read anything Sean Hannity has ever written. But good job digging that up.

 

I also didn't make any "excuse" for McCain's infidelity. I said it was my least favorite part of his history. I also said it was trashy to try to cash in politically on his marriage falling apart (and call his ex-wife "mangled" in the process) 30 years later to score political points. Maybe you never read this or maybe you just didn't understand what you were reading. Nothing would surprise me.

 

Lastly, I said I'm not shocked his marriage didn't survive what he and his wife both went through. I stand by that.

 

And what about this gem-

 

There's no way this could be from the RNC website, right?

 

Now who's the one parroting talking points?

Obama being wrong about tire inflation being equal to "all the oil they're talking about drilling" is still a fact no matter where you link it from. That's not a talking point. It's just reality.

 

Sorry your favorite candidate said something really stupid. But nice job bringing it up again.

 

Simply saying "Presidents don't take real vacations" is not refuting Bush's inaction, it's a (dare I say) TALKING POINT!!!!!!!

 

And what exactly in that article refutes my assertion that George Bush didn't have a clue what was going on in New Orleans until 2 days later? I didn't see his name mentioned once.

Where is your proof that Bush "didn't have a clue what was going on in New Orleans"? Bush (not surpisingly) didn't understand how the media would portray the event (which most likely explains your supposed "smoking gun" that he had to be shown CNN's coverage), but there's no evidence that he wasn't monitoring the situation. As the link on page 1 of the thread states, the government failures were more perception than reality.

 

What I posted was:

MYTH: "The aftermath of Katrina will go down as one of the worst abandonments of Americans on American soil ever in U.S. history."--Aaron Broussard, president, Jefferson Parish, La., Meet the Press, NBC, Sept. 4, 2005

 

REALITY: Bumbling by top disaster-management officials fueled a perception of general inaction, one that was compounded by impassioned news anchors. In fact, the response to Hurricane Katrina was by far the largest--and fastest-rescue effort in U.S. history, with nearly 100,000 emergency personnel arriving on the scene within three days of the storm's landfall.

You think that happens with the POTUS being completely out of the loop and/or "on vacation"?

 

So basically you still don't know what you're talking about, but now your proof that I'm wrong is that you were able to successfully Google other web articles that say similar (but not the same) things? How very impressive.

[SilverNRed]

As it stands today according to 3/4 of this board Obama is a Muslim Socialist Terrorist who wants to raise taxes on what is left of America after he and his wife betray the country to AQ during his Inaguration Speech, but only after he takes his oath of office on the Quran, and chooses the best looking blonde female interns for his harem.

This is seriously what you get from reading the board?

 

[Wacka]

So basically you still don't know what you're talking about, but now your proof that I'm wrong is that you were able to successfully Google other web articles that say similar (but not the same) things? How very impressive.

 

And he still ignores the FACT that Bush asked the LA governor and NO mayor to request aid BEFORE Katrina hit. FEMA and the National Guard cannot be deployed UNTIL THE GOVERNOR REQUESTS IT. I can't believe we are rehashing this sh-- over and over again with a brain damaged professional DNC operative.

[DC Tom]

The bolded part is some kind of a joke, right?

 

No, it wasn't...but you're right.

 

I, after reading your post, was thinking more in terms of the mindless criticism of his presidency, like we see now with Bush, or eight years ago with Clinton. Obama doesn't have a presidency yet...obviously.

 

And yes, I pretty much think at this point his election is a foregone conclusion. I don't particularly like it - his fiscal policy is irresponsible (though no more so than McCain's), and his foreign policy ideas frankly scare me, particularly as exemplified by Biden - but I don't see how McCain's going to appeal to the RNC's own base and the moderates enough to overcome Obama's momentum and the media and personality cult surrounding him.

 

Not that I'd prefer McCain, mind you...to me, it's four more years of irresponsible government either way.

[/dev/null]

chooses the best looking blonde female interns for his harem.

 

A man who shares my values

[JK2000]

Thank you for providing links that I've never read and accusing me of stealing those ideas. Edwards' ridiculous history as a trial lawyer and his vapid "Two Americas" populist nonsense are well-documented. I drew my conclusions from what I know about him. And if you search the board (you know how to do that right?), you'll see I haven't said a whole lot about him over the last 4 years.

 

Wow, the point just flew over your head didn't it? Doesn't right wingers repeating "ambulance chaser" and "class warfare" over and over again sound like talking points? Hmmmm? Couldn't be, I'm sure it's just a narrative that serendipitiously evolved among right-wingers. There's no way that any kind of message coordination is going on here, right? "Edwards rediculous history as a trial lawyer"? So if someday you are disembowled by a defective pool drain or some doctor causes you brain damage (even more than you have now) by prescribing you an overdose of medication can we expect you not to sue for damages? You're making a blankert assertion about the guys entire legal career based on what? Something you heard on Limbaugh?

 

I've never read anything Sean Hannity has ever written. But good job digging that up.

1) I doubt you can read

2) I doubt Hannity can write

2) That was a video

 

Obama being wrong about tire inflation being equal to "all the oil they're talking about drilling" is still a fact no matter where you link it from. That's not a talking point. It's just reality.

 

But my assertions about Bush which you've done absolutely nothing to refute are DNC talking points? How can you accuse someone of using "DNC talking points" when you're paraphrasing something from the RNC website!

 

Where is your proof that Bush "didn't have a clue what was going on in New Orleans"? Bush (not surpisingly) didn't understand how the media would portray the event (which most likely explains your supposed "smoking gun" that he had to be shown CNN's coverage), but there's no evidence that he wasn't monitoring the situation. As the link on page 1 of the thread states, the government failures were more perception than reality.

 

Here is the timelime of Bush's inactivity during Katrina-

 

8-28 Afternoon- GWB was warned of possible levee breaches and the risks evacuees would have at the Superdome. After not asking a single question during the briefing Bush says "We are fully prepared to help." Later in the week GWB lied through his teeth and said "I don't think anybody anticipated the breach of the levees."

 

8-29 Morning- GWB is told of the levy breach through a memo that says "Flooding is significant throughout the region and a levee in New Orleans has reportedly been breached sending 6-8 feet of water throughout the 9th ward area of the city." Then in a briefing "Brownie" warns bush that "This may be the Big One" and the National Hurricane Center warns Bush of the loss of lives that may occur from flooding and the storm surge.

 

Pretty serious stuff right? I bet GWB went straight to the war room to coordinate the federal response right? Well not exactly....

 

8-29 Morning- GWB calls Chertoff to talk immigration

8-29 Morning- GWB takes a birthday cake photo-op with John McCain

8-29 11AM- GWB heads to Arizona to deliver a Medicare stump speech

8-29 8PM Gov Blanco requests assistance from Bush, "Mr. President, we need your help. We need everything you’ve got.”

8-29 8PM GWB goes to bed without responding to Blanco

8-30 11AM GWB talks Iraq about a naval base in Coronodo

8-30 Midday Looting and mayhem breaks out in the streets of NOLA

8-30 2PM GWB plays guitar with country singer Mark Willis. After all this fun GWB heads back to Crawford and has yet to lift a finger

8-31 11AM GWB finally organizes task force to coordinate federal response.

9-2 Early AM GWB watches the famous Katrina DVD, “The reality, say several aides who did not wish to be quoted because it might displease the president, did not really sink in until Thursday night. Some White House staffers were watching the evening news and thought the president needed to see the horrific reports coming out of New Orleans. Counselor Bartlett made up a DVD of the newscasts so Bush could see them in their entirety as he flew down to the Gulf Coast the next morning on Air Force One.” So it took the President of the United States until thursday to understand what we all knew monday!

9-2 AM GWB arrives on the scene and in the process diverts helicopters, Coast Guard crew, and firefighters to serve as backdrops for photo-ops

 

You were saying something?

[/dev/null]

1) I doubt you can read

 

 

They why did you bother typing up that for SnR?

[Bishop Hedd]

What did I leave out? What did Bush do about the August 6th PDB between 8-6-01 and 9-10-01 that I left out? What did Bush do for the first 2 days of Katrina (besides playing guitar) that I left out? If he was so engaged in the events on the ground why would Dan Bartlett have to make a DVD of Katrina's news coverage? No one has been able to refute the substance of any of this!

 

 

Man I love that picture!

 

http://politicalhumor.about.com/library/im...lbushguitar.htm

[Bishop Hedd]

This is seriously what you get from reading the board?

 

 

 

Uh yeah.

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

And he still ignores the FACT that Bush asked the LA governor and NO mayor to request aid BEFORE Katrina hit. FEMA and the National Guard cannot be deployed UNTIL THE GOVERNOR REQUESTS IT. I can't believe we are rehashing this sh-- over and over again with a brain damaged professional DNC operative.

 

Now, now Wacka, who is only remembering half the story. Yes Bush asked, but he wasn't required to. If the White House was that concerned, they could have ramrodded this through and that would be called leadership. In fact, he was silent until he had that helicopter flyover. The mayor of NO was just as incompetent, but the WH has the resources and could have used that thing called leadership to respond a whole lot better. Kinda of like he did during 911, until his advisors got to him and they decided to make about the need for a War in Iraq.

 

Please don't defend this President, even if the press overdoes his incompetence. On the other hand, it remains to be seen if Obama has the stones or McCain's are too petrified to be effective Presidents. Obama, like Bush, depends on being scripted too much. I am concerned about the tax issue, but the problem of McCain's tax stand is just as worrisome. Despite his claim as a pork buster, he hasn't seen a tax break for the oil industry that he doesn't like and if I remember the banking industry either... Remember the Keating 5. And what is the number one supporter of Republican's, the insurance industry which was given $400 Billion and ended up providing Taxpayers with increased costs and now real new benefits.

 

Raising tire pressure would save American's a lot in gas Silver in Red. Not the only answer and more drilling off shore is important, just not on the 5% of protect Anwar reserve, use the other 95%. The problem is not so much drilling but the pipeline. In order to keep the oil flowing, they fill it with heated salt water. The leaks do permanent damage to the tundra, both the heat and salt. Come up with another solution. Off shore drilling and windmills in Nantucket are NIMBI issues, the Feds should just claim eminent domain and move on, like they do with cell towers.

[Wacka]

Now, now Wacka, who is only remembering half the story. Yes Bush asked, but he wasn't required to. If the White House was that concerned, they could have ramrodded this through and that would be called eadership. In fact, he was silent until he had that helicopter flyover. The mayor of NO was just as incompetent, but the WH has the resources and could have used that thing called leadership to respond a whole lot better. Kinda of like he did during 911, until his advisors got to him and they decided to make about the need for a War in Iraq.

 

No he couldn't ramrod it through. FEMA help cannot be given unless asked for by the Governor. I know FEMA wasn't around then, but we needed help after the Blizzard of 77. We had to ask for help first. Carter sent his son and they showed him a snowplow buried in Cheektowaga. THEN he declared a disaster area. Blanco and Nagin F'd up royally.

 

As we said at the time, the help got there as soon as possible. What the F are they supposed to do, hover in helicopters DURING the hurricane?

Please get some help for your BDS.

[DC Tom]

Now, now Wacka, who is only remembering half the story. Yes Bush asked, but he wasn't required to. If the White House was that concerned, they could have ramrodded this through and that would be called leadership. In fact, he was silent until he had that helicopter flyover. The mayor of NO was just as incompetent, but the WH has the resources and could have used that thing called leadership to respond a whole lot better. Kinda of like he did during 911, until his advisors got to him and they decided to make about the need for a War in Iraq.

 

Actually, they couldn't. There's significant limitations on what federal government can do in those situations without state or local authority. For example: the National Guard are state resources, not federal. If federalized, they are no longer available for domestic employment, as that would violate posse comitatus. Under certain conditions such an effort can be federalized; the president can request the federalization of state resources under the Insurrection Act...and such a request was made to and denied by Blanco.

 

People forget, too, the utter devestation in the area. New Orleans was cut off, literally. Not one reliable route into the city existed until that Thursday. The last six miles from the airport (where FEMA had some 70% of their entire stock of field hospitals stationed on Wednesday) to the Superdome was untraversable. It was not a matter of loading up trucks and driving in. It was the equivalent of trying to rescue 30000 people from the deep Everglades. The only comparable disaster I can think of would be in Bander Aceh after the tsunami.

 

Fundamentally, this blaming it on individuals is faintly ridiculous. If you read the reports on the response, the consistent theme isn't individual failures, but a lack of planning and complete breakdown in coordination and communication at ALL levels. You basically had local, state, and federal, and volunteer running their own response plans, uncoordinated and often at cross-purposes. That that mess got sorted out by Thursday (and by a direct order by Bush federalizing New Orleans under Northcom command - probably the only thing anyone in power did right the whole week, and it was completely illegal) was frankly miraculous.

[DC Tom]

9-2 AM GWB arrives on the scene and in the process diverts helicopters, Coast Guard crew, and firefighters to serve as backdrops for photo-ops

 

Five pages ago you thought that sort of thing was good leadership. Frickin' nitwit.

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

No he couldn't ramrod it through. FEMA help cannot be given unless asked for by the Governor. I know FEMA wasn't around then, but we needed help after the Blizzard of 77. We had to ask for help first. Carter sent his son and they showed him a snowplow buried in Cheektowaga. THEN he declared a disaster area. Blanco and Nagin F'd up royally.

 

As we said at the time, the help got there as soon as possible. What the F are they supposed to do, hover in helicopters DURING the hurricane?

Please get some help for your BDS.

 

Blanco reportedly asked, if I remember correctly, although not with the appropriate form in bureaucratic triplicate. Please that is just an excuse. Bush's executive orders have overridden much more. His folks should have coordinated everything anyway and once again it would have shown real leadership, instead he acted out or partisanship. And Nagin was just plain incompetent.

 

The sad part is this could have been a coup for Bush and half of what was being said about his disinterest would have gone away.

[SilverNRed]

Wow, the point just flew over your head didn't it? Doesn't right wingers repeating "ambulance chaser" and "class warfare" over and over again sound like talking points? Hmmmm? Couldn't be, I'm sure it's just a narrative that serendipitiously evolved among right-wingers. There's no way that any kind of message coordination is going on here, right? "Edwards rediculous history as a trial lawyer"? So if someday you are disembowled by a defective pool drain or some doctor causes you brain damage (even more than you have now) by prescribing you an overdose of medication can we expect you not to sue for damages? You're making a blankert assertion about the guys entire legal career based on what? Something you heard on Limbaugh?

Yes, it's all "message coordination" orchestrated by Limbaugh and the other puppet masters. You've done an amazing job proving that with your random Google links.

 

1) I doubt you can read

2) I doubt Hannity can write

2) That was a video

No kidding. I didn't click on the link. You providing some random clip of Sean Hannity proves nothing. You cherry picked one sentence of mine, found a similar Sean Hannity quote, and are now trying to pretend that means anything.

 

It's pathetic you thought you were accomplishing anything there.

 

But my assertions about Bush which you've done absolutely nothing to refute are DNC talking points? How can you accuse someone of using "DNC talking points" when you're paraphrasing something from the RNC website!

The RNC website will have something factually correct every now and then just like the DNC website will. That doesn't prove it was my "source" for what I wrote because all you need are two working brain cells to know what Obama said was stupid (not a link).

 

Not to mention you can't "paraphrase" what you've never read.

 

8-29 Morning- GWB is told of the levy breach through a memo that says "Flooding is significant throughout the region and a levee in New Orleans has reportedly been breached sending 6-8 feet of water throughout the 9th ward area of the city." Then in a briefing "Brownie" warns bush that "This may be the Big One" and the National Hurricane Center warns Bush of the loss of lives that may occur from flooding and the storm surge.

 

Pretty serious stuff right? I bet GWB went straight to the war room to coordinate the federal response right? Well not exactly....

 

8-29 Morning- GWB calls Chertoff to talk immigration

8-29 Morning- GWB takes a birthday cake photo-op with John McCain

8-29 11AM- GWB heads to Arizona to deliver a Medicare stump speech

8-29 8PM Gov Blanco requests assistance from Bush, "Mr. President, we need your help. We need everything you’ve got.”

8-29 8PM GWB goes to bed without responding to Blanco

8-30 11AM GWB talks Iraq about a naval base in Coronodo

8-30 Midday Looting and mayhem breaks out in the streets of NOLA

8-30 2PM GWB plays guitar with country singer Mark Willis. After all this fun GWB heads back to Crawford and has yet to lift a finger

8-31 11AM GWB finally organizes task force to coordinate federal response.

9-2 Early AM GWB watches the famous Katrina DVD, “The reality, say several aides who did not wish to be quoted because it might displease the president, did not really sink in until Thursday night. Some White House staffers were watching the evening news and thought the president needed to see the horrific reports coming out of New Orleans. Counselor Bartlett made up a DVD of the newscasts so Bush could see them in their entirety as he flew down to the Gulf Coast the next morning on Air Force One.” So it took the President of the United States until thursday to understand what we all knew monday!

9-2 AM GWB arrives on the scene and in the process diverts helicopters, Coast Guard crew, and firefighters to serve as backdrops for photo-ops

 

You were saying something?

Again, you continue to ignore the overall success of the response to just keep repeating the same incomplete information you want to list over and over. The consensus on Katrina in the first 24 hours after it happened was that we had been lucky (it was not as powerful a hurricane as initially feared when it hit) and the concern that the levees would be topped proved unfounded. All hell broke loose later after the levees were breached due to a design flaw. That's the type of information you trim right out to help your "Bush was on vacation and did nothing during Katrina!" narrative.

 

But, again, good job with all the Googling. I'm sure you're only 1 or 2 posts away from proving that everything I've ever written on this board is just a paraphrase of what Hannity, O'Reilly, Limbaugh, etc. have said/written. Yeah, either that or this is the most sad and desparate tactic I've ever seen someone attempt to use to win an argument on this board.