The Senator Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Peter Parker picked a peck of........................... ...............pickled peppers???????
Kelly the Dog Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 There are two, in fact: http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10939222 Contrast that to the situation of tackle Jason Peters. He's in the middle of a five-year contract, but he wants to renegotiate, and the club says no can do. So Peters has disappeared, with the Bills last seeing him Jan. 15, and the club not only is fining him; it is exploring the possibility of recovering a portion of his signing bonus. Good article. Lee Evans is first class.
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I'm not surprised, but unless there are two Clark Judge articles that talk about Peters, where does he say that? http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10939217 What he does say, of course, is that the Bills have flat refused to renegotiate his 2008 deal (and he's not the first to report this), which throws out the window all the talk here that all he has to do is show up and he can get a new deal. Yeah, he can get a new deal, just not now and not for more than 3.25 mil this year. Still, I'm not worried about it. He will be here soon, and will be starting opening day, and the Bills are doing the right thing by not renegotiating now. It's still a little disingenuous of them, IMO, to make it seem like all he has to do is show up and they will renegotiate, when they really won't. Or at least not anywhere near what he wants. it's really silly to think we know what the bills will do if he shows up, or how much they might be willing to pay, this year, next year, or right before his current deal expires. since all kinds of variations have appeared, who really knows what's real and what isn't?
Kelly the Dog Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 it's really silly to think we know what the bills will do if he shows up, nor how much they might be willing to pay, this year, next year, or right before his current deal expires. since all kinds of variations have appeared, who really knows what's real and what isn't? I think it's much sillier to think that the Bills are willing to pay him close to what he and his agent wants, this year, but that they just won't tell him if he comes in, he gets it. They want him to come in first, and then they will tell him he gets all he wants or close to it. And it's much sillier to think that the agent doesn't know approximately what the Bills are willing to pay, and when they are willing to discuss that approximate amount. I therefore think everyone involved knows exactly what is going on, regardless of what they release to the media, or imply by their silence. Peters and Parker want to be paid now, what they and most others think he is worth now. The Bills, rightfully, aren't willing to do that, because he has three years left. How many more reputable reporters do we need saying the Bills won't renegotiate this year before people believe it? That scenario makes simple, perfect, logical, common sense. No other scenario makes any sense.
Dan Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I'm not surprised, but unless there are two Clark Judge articles that talk about Peters, where does he say that? http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10939217 What he does say, of course, is that the Bills have flat refused to renegotiate his 2008 deal (and he's not the first to report this), which throws out the window all the talk here that all he has to do is show up and he can get a new deal. Yeah, he can get a new deal, just not now and not for more than 3.25 mil this year. Still, I'm not worried about it. He will be here soon, and will be starting opening day, and the Bills are doing the right thing by not renegotiating now. It's still a little disingenuous of them, IMO, to make it seem like all he has to do is show up and they will renegotiate, when they really won't. Or at least not anywhere near what he wants. Has the Bills' FO said that.. or has it just been TSW posters saying that Peters needs to show up and he'll get a new contract? I ask because the comments I've read from the Bills suggested that if Peters showed up, they would begin to talk about a renegotiation of his contract (or at least I thought I read). IMO, the Bills have probably told Peters and his agent all along that he's not getting a new deal this year. It would be next year, at the earliest. Peters didn't like that; hence, the holdout. However, IMO also, he'd get a better deal (or at least have a chance at a better deal) if he were in camp and played another great season.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Has the Bills' FO said that.. or has it just been TSW posters saying that Peters needs to show up and he'll get a new contract? I ask because the comments I've read from the Bills suggested that if Peters showed up, they would begin to talk about a renegotiation of his contract (or at least I thought I read). IMO, the Bills have probably told Peters and his agent all along that he's not getting a new deal this year. It would be next year, at the earliest. Peters didn't like that; hence, the holdout. However, IMO also, he'd get a better deal (or at least have a chance at a better deal) if he were in camp and played another great season. The Bills haven't said that, no. They say we won't talk until he shows. When he shows, we will talk. But they never said they would talk about this year, or talk about BIG money, the kind he is asking for. People here, many, have taken what the Bills said to mean they will renegotiate if he shows, and sign him to a big deal this year, like they did Schobel. I think that's not even close to the truth, and there have been at least three (Sal Maranoia, Adam Schefter, now Clark Judge), and I think more like 4-5 (plus maybe Wawrow and/or Dr. Z, and Allen Wilson implied it) who have said the Bills have refused to consider renegotiating this year and that Peters has to play this year under his old contract. I think you're right. They told the agent they won't renegotiate this year and he said we're not coming in. But Parker will relent soon, IMO.
Dan Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 The Bills haven't said that, no. They say we won't talk until he shows. When he shows, we will talk. But they never said they would talk about this year, or talk about BIG money, the kind he is asking for. People here, many, have taken what the Bills said to mean they will renegotiate if he shows, and sign him to a big deal this year, like they did Schobel. I think that's not even close to the truth, and there have been at least three (Sal Maranoia, Adam Schefter, now Clark Judge), and I think more like 4-5 (plus maybe Wawrow and/or Dr. Z, and Allen Wilson implied it) who have said the Bills have refused to consider renegotiating this year and that Peters has to play this year under his old contract. I think you're right. They told the agent they won't renegotiate this year and he said we're not coming in. But Parker will relent soon, IMO. Agreed. I think he almost has to show pretty soon. The Bills have given zero indication that they may cave. And as sad as it may sound, but the Bills may be thinking - hey, we haven't had a good Oline for over a decade. So what's one more year while we look for Peters' replacement?
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 I think it's much sillier to think that the Bills are willing to pay him close to what he and his agent wants, this year, but that they just won't tell him if he comes in, he gets it. They want him to come in first, and then they will tell him he gets all he wants or close to it. If every NFL athlete got what he and his agent (and others) thought he was worth, the business would be dramatically different than it is. What we don't know is their top line. And it's much sillier to think that the agent doesn't know approximately what the Bills are willing to pay, and when they are willing to discuss that approximate amount. Maybe parker knows, maybe he's guessing, we don't really know that either. I don't do any sport negotiation, but in business, you don't make a habit of telling (or even hinting to) the other side the highest you're willing to go. You're telling me it's common practice that the agent knows approximately what most or every team is willing to pay, absolute top $? I have trouble with that, but I'm admitting I don't know... I therefore think everyone involved knows exactly what is going on, regardless of what they release to the media, or imply by their silence. Peters and Parker want to be paid now, what they and most others think he is worth now. The Bills, rightfully, aren't willing to do that, because he has three years left. How many more reputable reporters do we need saying the Bills won't renegotiate this year before people believe it? That scenario makes simple, perfect, logical, common sense. No other scenario makes any sense. yeah, what they release to the media or not talk about... keywords. Another scenario is the Bills are simply playing both hardball and it close to the vest. That nobody knows what they will do this year, or after, nor how much they are willing to pay. Evan's extension would certainly be a part of that. They don't have to tell Parker much of anything other than 'tell your player to come to camp', due to that leverage thing. That makes logical and simple common sense also. Is it perfect? No, but there's so many unknowns, nobody should be surprised. We only have to look at what they implied; that any discussion would only take place after he was reporting under the current contract -and- the team has shown that they will rip up existing deals when the player over performs and isn't being paid accordingly.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Agreed. I think he almost has to show pretty soon. The Bills have given zero indication that they may cave. And as sad as it may sound, but the Bills may be thinking - hey, we haven't had a good Oline for over a decade. So what's one more year while we look for Peters' replacement? The only thing we differ on, is that even though I don't agree with it, I think the holdout doesn't hurt him, and probably helps him in the long run. It's just the way these things work. If he has a great year, and I fully expect him to, I think he pulls the same thing next year and it won't be nearly as easy as it was for the Bills to play hardball. So I think they will sign him before next season starts, but this thing may have gotten him a few more million in the long run overall. Even though it's rewarding bad behavior. It's just an opinion. It's impossible to say whether it helped or hurt, but if and when he gets the big deal I very much doubt we'll look back and say he would have made more if he played nice. If he has another pro bowl year he is going to break the bank.
Kelly the Dog Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 If every NFL athlete got what he and his agent (and others) thought he was worth, the business would be dramatically different than it is. What we don't know is their top line. I think you and a lot of people are missing the point to that. In order for anyone to believe that they WILL pay him that much, or anything close to it, Parker would have had to convince Peters that he has no idea if the Bills will or won't meet their demands, or be in the ballpark. Peters would say to him, "You mean they may be willing to pay me 10 million this year if I show, But we have no idea what they are really offering?" That is impossible to me. Or even that Parker wouldn't do something to find out if they are in the ballpark. Not to mention the Bills players. Trent Edwards and Lee Evans and Marshawn Lynch are going to go to coach Jauron and say, "Are you kidding me?! Jason wants to play, you guys are willing to give him close to what he wants but you're not telling him?! Get him in here! We need him! We're getting killed out here!" Maybe parker knows, maybe he's guessing, we don't really know that either. I don't do any sport negotiation, but in business, you don't make a habit of telling (or even hinting to) the other side the highest you're willing to go. You're telling me it's common practice that the agent knows approximately what most or every team is willing to pay, absolute top $? I have trouble with that, but I'm admitting I don't know... He's surely not going to know what their tipping point is, or what they ultimately will settle for. He surely is going to know, because he is one of the top 2-3 agents in the game, whether or not they are willing to negotiate 2008, and whether they are closer to 1 million away per year or 5 million away per year. It's his entire job to know. And again, the Bills aren't going to be willing to come close to his demands and then keep that information from him because they are in some "I know you are but what am I" universe. yeah, what they release to the media or not talk about... keywords. Another scenario is the Bills are simply playing both hardball and it close to the vest. That nobody knows what they will do this year, or after, nor how much they are willing to pay. Evan's extension would certainly be a part of that. They don't have to tell Parker much of anything other than 'tell your player to come to camp', due to that leverage thing. That makes logical and simple common sense also. Is it perfect? No, but there's so many unknowns, nobody should be surprised. We only have to look at what they implied; that any discussion would only take place after he was reporting under the current contract -and- the team has shown that they will rip up existing deals when the player over performs and isn't being paid accordingly. Again. Just think about what you're saying for a second. Lets just use 10 million per year as an example, because it's almost for sure what he is asking for, or close to it. Is it possible for you to imagine that behind closed doors, Overdorf and Wilson and Brandon have decided that Jason Peters is worth 9-10 million a year, and we're willing to pay him that much, or close to it, right now, this year, but "Let's not tell him or his agent that." Even though they know for a fact they could have him in camp and signed or in camp and negotiating tomorrow, for what they think he is worth and are willing to pay? How is that possible? If they were willing to renegotiate now, for 2008, and be anywhere in the ballpark, he would be in camp.
Dan Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 The only thing we differ on, is that even though I don't agree with it, I think the holdout doesn't hurt him, and probably helps him in the long run. It's just the way these things work. If he has a great year, and I fully expect him to, I think he pulls the same thing next year and it won't be nearly as easy as it was for the Bills to play hardball. So I think they will sign him before next season starts, but this thing may have gotten him a few more million in the long run overall. Even though it's rewarding bad behavior. It's just an opinion. It's impossible to say whether it helped or hurt, but if and when he gets the big deal I very much doubt we'll look back and say he would have made more if he played nice. If he has another pro bowl year he is going to break the bank. You may be right. It could ultimately help him. However, my bigger concern is does he come back in shape and play at that same or higher level without sustaining an injury? It's not at all uncommon for a player to come back out of shape and late in the offseason and then have a subpar and/or injury plagued year. I think there's little doubt that if he comes back and has another Probowl-type year, then he gets mega money.
keepthefaith Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 You may be right. It could ultimately help him. However, my bigger concern is does he come back in shape and play at that same or higher level without sustaining an injury? It's not at all uncommon for a player to come back out of shape and late in the offseason and then have a subpar and/or injury plagued year. I think there's little doubt that if he comes back and has another Probowl-type year, then he gets mega money. That would look like a fair deal for both sides. Until then the guy has zero leverage.
Trader Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 My Prediction --Peters will be in camp by next week Wednesday. He can't afford to risk being placed on the PUP list. That might happen if he shows up the week before the season. This guy is not going to lose a game check. If he does not not show up within 10 days? well then we have a head case on our hands and we are really better off without him at all.
SwampD Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 This might be a stupid question, but are we sure Peters is holding out for more money? Everything I've read says only that Jason hasen't shown up to camp..and Parker is unavailable for comment. All of the writers (and posters) assume it's about money, but the only quote I could find remotely dealing with the actual participants in this was this,"Peters has not commented publicly about the dispute. His agents, Eugene Parker and Vincent Taylor, have also declined comment and have not returned numerous messages left with them by The AP over the past three days." I'm just wondering if this is really what his absence is all about...unless someone can show me a direct quote from one of them about wanting more money. I just couldn't find one.
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 This might be a stupid question, but are we sure Peters is holding out for more money? Everything I've read says only that Jason hasen't shown up to camp..and Parker is unavailable for comment. They were abducted by aliens. Reports from camp Talks are progressing nicely on a contract extension for WR Lee Evans and an announcement of a deal could come soon, both parties said. "This is more about what I have to do," he said. "Whether or not an extension is granted by this organization, I have to figure it's got to come from somewhere. "Right now, I have to get myself ready for this season. This season is the most important one for me. So coming out to training camp and working to make myself better as a player is my main focus." Contrast that to the situation of tackle Jason Peters. He's in the middle of a five-year contract, but he wants to renegotiate, and the club says no can do. So Peters has disappeared, with the Bills last seeing him Jan. 15, and the club not only is fining him; it is exploring the possibility of recovering a portion of his signing bonus. That's not good for anyone, and it demonstrates how grateful the Bills are -- or should be -- for Lee Evans. He hasn't made demands. He hasn't held out. He hasn't sulked. And he hasn't bellyached.
shibuya Posted August 20, 2008 Posted August 20, 2008 Peters has shot himself in the foot. 3 years left on his extension and he thinks he can not communicate with the team and get a big time raise. peters ain't getting sh-- this year. He'll have to play this year and hsow up at OTA"s and training camp before the Bills place a bigtime contract in front of him. This is all Peters fault... and he is costing himself a lot of money an dhe is hurting his career.
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