Lead Paint...

[Arkady Renko]

So I recently moved into a house I just bought that was built in the early 1960s. It has had extensive renovations downstairs, but upstairs the floors and walls need some work in the future.

 

So we did the whole lead disclosure thing where the seller's said they knew nothing and we were told that you have to expect lead paint in pre-78 homes. But we were like, we'll just have to be careful about peeling paint and whatnot. Now, we are working on painting some of the rooms and are wondering whether maybe my wife and I should have been concerned about this more than we were. The place has new windows and new siding.

 

This is all new to me having grown up in a house built in 1979. Does anyone have any thoughts? Should we shell out for the risk assessment to have some idea what we got ourselves into? Is this all overblown?

[Simon]

A) Don't eat the paint.

B) If you're doing a lot of scraping and sanding wear a mask, ventilate the room and do a good clean up.

C) If you have/will have little ones, be sure their rooms don't have the old paint.

D) Listen to somebody who knows better than me and in the mean time follow A-C w/o giving yourselves an unnecessary ulcer.

[KnightRider]

So I recently moved into a house I just bought that was built in the early 1960s. It has had extension renovations downstairs, but upstairs the floors and walls need some work in the future.

 

So we did the whole lead disclosure thing where the seller's said they knew nothing and we were told that you have to expect lead paint in pre-78 homes. But we were like, we'll just have to be careful about peeling paint and whatnot. Now, we are working on painting some of the rooms and are wondering whether maybe my wife and I should have been concerned about this more than we were. The place has new windows and new siding.

 

This is all new to me having grown up in a house built in 1979. Does anyone have any thoughts? Should we shell out for the risk assessment to have some idea what we got ourselves into? Is this all overblown?

 

I paid $250 (I think - it was 2002 when I did the class) to get a license to do lead paint removal in Massachusetts. Basically, it can harm children if ingested or inhaled. It really isn't a huge issue with adults. If you don't have kids, yet, don't worry about it unless you plan to. Then, replace the stuff you think may have lead (there are self test kits out there- use them, not an inspector) before they are born. At the very least, keep the dust levels low where lead is possible. When you sell, you do the same thing about knowing nothing. BTW, even newer than 1978 housing claims unknown because you never know if an old can of lead paint might have been used.

[Arkady Renko]

I paid $250 (I think - it was 2002 when I did the class) to get a license to do lead paint removal in Massachusetts. Basically, it can harm children if ingested or inhaled. It really isn't a huge issue with adults. If you don't have kids, yet, don't worry about it unless you plan to. Then, replace the stuff you think may have lead (there are self test kits out there- use them, not an inspector) before they are born. At the very least, keep the dust levels low where lead is possible. When you sell, you do the same thing about knowing nothing. BTW, even newer than 1978 housing claims unknown because you never know if an old can of lead paint might have been used.

 

We plan on having kids soon... I got one of those home tests at various parts in the house, but no reaction at spots I suspected. Why should we not do an inspection?

[Wacka]

I do what are called Environmental Site Assessments. When a bank loans money, they want to cover their ass to make sure that there are no environmental problems with a property.

For businesses , lead-based paint (LBP) is not a concern. When I do apartment complexes, I have to do a LBP survey on 1979 or older complexes. I use the color check sticks that you can buy at Lowes or Home Depot. In the hundreds I have done, I have only seen a positive reaction once. It was a 50s eras complex that had recently painted the woodworking. There was a small nick that went down to wood. The lowest layer had lead.

 

When I get no positives (all except that once time), I state that because of the age it is likely that there is LBP present, but that it is in good shape. As stated elsewhere, if you sand the old paint then wear a mask and take measures to keep dust down. Don't let the paint peel. If you have a rug rat, don't let them chew on the molding. LBP was rarely used after the 60s and usually in more expensive homes as it was better quality.

 

I am certified to inspect for asbestos ($650 3-day class and yearly $150 half day refreshers). It was also banned in household products in 1979, but can be present in vinyl floor tiles. It is not a problem unless it is friable (can be crumbled in your hand).

 

I look at 9 inch square floor tiles. They almost always have asbestos (12 inchers are OK) I only take a sample if they are damaged. Asbestos was also used joint compound (I take a sample in for example , a hot water closet- the exposed joint compound is usually original). What you should look at is textured (popcorn) ceilings. They didn't spray asbestos directly, but used it to clean the sprayer nozzles. That's also fine unless it is "snowing"down. I was told by an apartment manager where he saw where kids had used a broom to sweep it off the ceiling and another case where they were jumping on the bed and hitting the ceiling with their fingers. If you are worried about a popcorn ceiling, paint it.

No, I don't remove the stuff or plan the removal (more classes and more $).

 

 

You posted again while I was writing. I have had negatives on a railing where 3 different colors and layers of paint were visible on a railing and the place was built in the 60s.Like I said, don't eat the paint and keep it painted with modern day paint.

[Arkady Renko]

You posted again while I was writing. I have had negatives on a railing where 3 different colors and layers of paint were visible on a railing and the place was built in the 60s.Like I said, don't eat the paint and keep it painted with modern day paint.

 

Yeah there were some dents to dry wall and it came up negative.

[KnightRider]

We plan on having kids soon... I got one of those home tests at various parts in the house, but no reaction at spots I suspected. Why should we not do an inspection?

 

For Mass, the inspector is required by law to report all positive tests to the state. We got a positive when we bought in 2001 which had to be disclosed in the listing when we sold it in 2007. If we'd done our own tests, we could have fixed it and the listing would say unknown like 95% of the other houses. The laws in MA are also not surprisingly goofy regarding lead removal. If you are doing repairs specifically to remove lead, you need to let the health dept. know and have conspicuous signage outside stating that is what you are doing. No one is allowed in the dwelling until a lead inspector re-inspects (the dust generated during lead removal gets everywhere, and a hepa vacuum is needed) and says it is safe for occupation. On the other hand, if your motivation to remodel just happens to involve a piece of wood that may or may not contain lead, you don't need to inform anyone, nor do you have to get approval to move back in. Maybe your state isn't quite a dumb about it as Massachusetts.

 

Wacka, the guy I had doing the lead inspection was using an x-ray gun that went right through all layers of paint. In MA, lead gets a failure no matter how deep. Then, and only then, can you encapsulate. You would still have to list it as positive/mitigated should you re-sell. It seems a pretty good racket <sp?> for inspectors and lead removal contractors, to me.

[gmac17]

I am certified to inspect for asbestos ($650 3-day class and yearly $150 half day refreshers). It was also banned in household products in 1979, but can be present in vinyl floor tiles. It is not a problem unless it is friable (can be crumbled in your hand).

 

I look at 9 inch square floor tiles. They almost always have asbestos (12 inchers are OK) I only take a sample if they are damaged. Asbestos was also used joint compound (I take a sample in for example , a hot water closet- the exposed joint compound is usually original). What you should look at is textured (popcorn) ceilings. They didn't spray asbestos directly, but used it to clean the sprayer nozzles. That's also fine unless it is "snowing"down. I was told by an apartment manager where he saw where kids had used a broom to sweep it off the ceiling and another case where they were jumping on the bed and hitting the ceiling with their fingers. If you are worried about a popcorn ceiling, paint it.

No, I don't remove the stuff or plan the removal (more classes and more $).

 

I removed it for a summer in college. For the most part, the whole asbestos thing is overblown - and especially with floor tiles. The stuff is only dangerous if there is a lot of it, if you breath it in for a long time and to breath it in it has to be airborne - ie, not in floor tile.

 

The people i worked with weren't the sharpest tools in the shed - one guy used to smoke in the containment area - tons of dust and asbestos floating around and he was taking off his mask to smoke.

[Wacka]

Yeah there were some dents to dry wall and it came up negative.

Lead based paint was generally used on molding and not plaster or drywall.

 

I think this is all being too scared about it. From when I was about 8 until about when I was 16 (1965 -1973) we totally remodeled the inside and outside of our house. We took off old tile floors, plaster, lath. and molding. My father did almost everything and guess who was his assistant. I'm still around.

We only had a contractor extend the foundation under the front of the house (it was on piers), add a living room to the front and side the house.

[Wacka]

I removed it for a summer in college. For the most part, the whole asbestos thing is overblown - and especially with floor tiles. The stuff is only dangerous if there is a lot of it, if you breath it in for a long time and to breath it in it has to be airborne - ie, not in floor tile.

 

The people i worked with weren't the sharpest tools in the shed - one guy used to smoke in the containment area - tons of dust and asbestos floating around and he was taking off his mask to smoke.

 

 

The California state rock is a green rock called serpentine. Serpentine = asbestos. There is an area in the central valley of CA that I would have to do air sampling because o fthe high level of dust naturally around. The state closed an ATV park (state run) in that area, possibly for good, because of the dust it generates in the summer - it doesn't rain from May-October here.

 

I'm more concerned with hazardous materials and wastes being present. I have to go inspect a large bakery tomorrow morning- they make 54, 000 bagels a hour!