Anything new on Peters??

[Mickey]

what family has trouble eating on $3.5million a year?

 

we're not talking about the difference between $60k or $30k a year. Show up, make your MULTI-MILLIONS and re-negotiate next year to a $7million/year contract.

 

Holding out and sacrificing the rest of your team for another $3million dollars is in no way like Joe Shmoe trying to get a 5% raise to go from $50k to $52,500.

What family breadwinner has an average career length of 3 years? Joe Schmo has a work life expetancy of 40+ years. Lest see, 40 years x 52,500 = 2.1 Million, assuming he goes his entire life without a single raise and not including fringe benefits which, for the average American worker tacks on another 17%.

 

Besides, I don't think the right to get the best pay for your services evaporates just because you are more succesful than Joe Schmo.

 

He is not "sacrificing" anyone. Everyone on the team can continue earning their pay same as they would without him. The only difference between him and the rest of us is we get to hire ourselves out to the highest bidder while he works for a monopoly that limits his abilit to do what we all have a right to do. But, because he is good at what he does, he shouldn't have the rights the rest of us have.

[nucci]

Where does it end? As soon as someone signs a new contract, the next guys wants to be paid more. I have no sympathy for either side. I don't want to hear that a players career can end anytime. So can mine and if I had $3M in the bank I could probably live out my life ok.

[Mickey]

And Joe Shmoe is not allowed to sit home on his butt "holding-out" for that raise. He would be fired. So, you are correct, these situations are completely different.

Right, he would be fired and then he could go to any employer he wants to looking for another job at whatever pay his skills, in the job market, command. Peters can't do that either. I am sure Peters would love to give the Bills the ability to fire him in exchanger for his having the right to quit this job and get a better one with all the teams that would line up to pay him what the Bills refuse to pay him.

[Mickey]

Maybe so, but what a terrible precedent doing so would create for negotiations with future holdouts.

 

You know, Langston Walker was hired to play on the right side and now he's playing pretty well on the left. If he was smart he wouldn't show up at practice today and stay home until the Bills fork over more money, which he deserves.

 

Walker probably has more leverage now than Peters.

When Walker makes the pro bowl, then we can have this discussion. At present, he is getting paid more than his performance justifies unless you want to ignore his regular season performance and base his entire salary on 7 or 8 plays in a preseason game. Besides, the precedent was already set with Schobel so its a little late for the team to be worrying about that now.

 

I can see why so many fans back the team and crap all over Peters. Afterall, the front office has been spectacularly succesful over the last 10 years, hasn't it? Thank goodness we have spared the horror of forking over more cash to keep good players like we did back in the day for players like Thurman, Jimbo, Bruuuuuce and Andre. What a relief it is to have a healthy salary cap number and a crummy win loss record than the reverse.

[Mickey]

Agree.

If he's really that good, can show that he's consistently dominating and not just one or two year phenom, he can play under his current contract for three years and hit the jackpot as a free agent when his contract is up. He'll still be a reasonably young player and should be able to secure a contract that will set him for life.

 

If the Bills are smart and truly believe he is one of the best, they'll attempt to tie him up to a long term deal to keep him around, either this year or next.

 

Either way, for the good of this team, he needs to be familiar with the playbook get some reps before the season starts.

In a 16 game schedule, one win or loss can mean the difference between post season play or not. His prolonged absence could be that difference.

Peters - If you're only following your agent's advice, fire him and get into camp - NOW! He's not helping you or the team.

I think that if any agent gave advice based on what was best for the team rather than for his client, he should not only be fired but he should be drummed out of the business.

 

None of this is really about what is or is not fair. If the Bills could get pro bowl performances for peanut pay, they would do it in a heart beat. If a player can get a contract worth far more than his performance justifies, he is going to get it and never look back. This is about market value and leverage.

 

There is no question that Peters' market value is waaaaay more than his actual pay at this point.

 

The question is leverage. The Bills have the rights to him, that is their leverage. He is a really, really good player, that is his leverage. He can hold out, that is leverage. They can fine him, that is leverage. Peters is going to be a good player long after his current contract is up and the team will want him here for a lot longer than just his current contract, that is leverage. And on it goes. Who has the most leverage? We will find out when the whole mess is over. If he has a new contract, give Peters and his agent the win. If he comes back at the same $, give the Bills a temoporary win but remember that win when he eventually bolts to another team and has a hall of fame career for someone else.

[Mickey]

The Bills have shown they can survive - maybe even do quite well, thank you - without Peters; therefore, it's time for them to cave in & cough up?

 

Is that you again, Eugene?

Yep, one preseason game. We are all set. Superbowl here we come. What more evidence could we possibly need than a handful of preseason plays upon which to dump a pro bowl left tackle? Frankly, I thought Jenkins looked great, we should cut Evans and save ourselves the trouble of that big contract he wants.

[The Senator]

Yep, one preseason game. We are all set. Superbowl here we come. What more evidence could we possibly need than a handful of preseason plays upon which to dump a pro bowl left tackle? Frankly, I thought Jenkins looked great, we should cut Evans and save ourselves the trouble of that big contract he wants.

Never said or implied anything close to that - all I'm saying is that he's got no leverage, needs to honor his contract, get his ass into camp, pass his physical, provide a clean urine sample, and demonstrate that he's recovered from the groin injury/sport hernia, before the Bills even give a fleeting thought to renegotiating his just recently renegotiated contract.

 

Now, if the O-line continues to play as well as they did Thu. nite, I think even you'd have to agree Peters' leverage is all but gone. (Not that he really has any right now.)

 

As for cutting Evans, WTF would we do that? He's not behaving like an ass hole - Lee's in camp, working his tail off, demonstrating his commitment, going about getting a new contract in all the right ways. Peters will look even more stupid, if that's possible, when the Bills announce they've renegotiated Evans contract, giving him a huge signing bonus, a healthy raise, and 'locking him up' him for 6 years!

[shibuya]

Where does it end? As soon as someone signs a new contract, the next guys wants to be paid more. I have no sympathy for either side. I don't want to hear that a players career can end anytime. So can mine and if I had $3M in the bank I could probably live out my life ok.

 

 

a players career can end anytime, which is why guarenteed monies are negotiated inot contracts and extensions. Peters already had one.

 

Simply put is Peters shows up and starts working out he might get another extension this year, if he doesn't he'll sit, the Bills won't budge !!!! and I''m 110% on the Bills side of this one.

 

Evans is a class act, 1 year left and he still shows up through the whole process.

[The Senator]

a players career can end anytime, which is why guarenteed monies are negotiated inot contracts and extensions. Peters already had one.

 

Simply put is Peters shows up and starts working out he might get another extension this year, if he doesn't he'll sit, the Bills won't budge !!!! and I''m 110% on the Bills side of this one.

 

Evans is a class act, 1 year left and he still shows up through the whole process.

Absolutely agree. Evans is an an example of how to do this the right way; Peters, the exact opposite.

 

As of today, Peters is into the Bills for $375K and counting. On September 7th, he also starts forfeiting his $200K/week game checks!

 

(So tell me again...who's got all the leverage? )

[oregonbbfan]

Much as I am a TEAM and Buffalo Bills person, I hate to take Jasons's side. I have written that he needs to get in camp for the good of the team and he will get his money.

 

Putting on my previous Procurement Negotiating hat you have to look at it from Jason's point of view and put yourself in his shoes. Yes, the Bills gave him a chance which he might never have gotten and he is appearing to be an ingrate. The Bills have plenty of things going for them, i.e. contract he can't void , fan support (who would be happy with his salary), even some players who won't admit it ( because he hurts their chance to attain playoff berth and money).

 

Now for Jason, he may not be the smartest but he IS getting good advice. I hate agents ( Rosenhaus and a couple others) but they have a valuable commodity who has performed and attained the highest level for the position and at which all agree he is underpaid.

 

The Bills will pay him but must understand his position even if he doesn't physically explain it. He hasn't been to camp for the simple fact that he risks his entire carreer with a career ending injury. Name of the game is garanteed money. If he got drastically hurt being a team player ( which I think he is ) in camp, the most he could expect is this year's salary ( which we could all live on ) and an injury settlement. So that would net him $3.5M and whatever a settlement is. Compare that to to a new contract of $10M / year. An injury settlement if he got incapacitated would be at least $10M + a settlement. Also, how much is garanteed in his current contract? Whatever garanteed money it has is not going to be anything like a new one with say $30M+ garanteed/bonus.

 

So Jason has reason to stay away from contact camp. He should take a physical and participate in non contact camp ( get in shape and learn the new offense) while they work on either a new contract, some garantees or some major what if's in the event of injury.

 

Both sides have concerns and options. The secret is getting a win -win for both sides without disenfranchising the other. jmo

[apuszczalowski]

What family breadwinner has an average career length of 3 years? Joe Schmo has a work life expetancy of 40+ years. Lest see, 40 years x 52,500 = 2.1 Million, assuming he goes his entire life without a single raise and not including fringe benefits which, for the average American worker tacks on another 17%.

 

Besides, I don't think the right to get the best pay for your services evaporates just because you are more succesful than Joe Schmo.

 

He is not "sacrificing" anyone. Everyone on the team can continue earning their pay same as they would without him. The only difference between him and the rest of us is we get to hire ourselves out to the highest bidder while he works for a monopoly that limits his abilit to do what we all have a right to do. But, because he is good at what he does, he shouldn't have the rights the rest of us have.

Doesn't this just kill your entire arguement????

 

That is also assuming that the average Joe is making $52,500 a year, which seems to me to be a little high for "Average", but still that number works. So for only one year, Peters could then live off that money as an average Joe Schmo for the next 39 years of his life. Thats not counting his signing bonus, or previous salaries, or the fact that when he is done his football career he can do whatever he wants, get a job, retire, go back to school and get an education, and he still has it better financially then the average person. He also only had to work 8 months max to make that money for the year.

 

He has all the rights to want more money, just like everyone else, but that doesn't mean we should feel sorry for him.

[apuszczalowski]

When Walker makes the pro bowl, then we can have this discussion. At present, he is getting paid more than his performance justifies unless you want to ignore his regular season performance and base his entire salary on 7 or 8 plays in a preseason game. Besides, the precedent was already set with Schobel so its a little late for the team to be worrying about that now.

 

I can see why so many fans back the team and crap all over Peters. Afterall, the front office has been spectacularly succesful over the last 10 years, hasn't it? Thank goodness we have spared the horror of forking over more cash to keep good players like we did back in the day for players like Thurman, Jimbo, Bruuuuuce and Andre. What a relief it is to have a healthy salary cap number and a crummy win loss record than the reverse.

Who is crapping all over Peters? People just want him to get his ass to camp, to re-negotiate with the team since they said they will not re-negotiate until he does.

 

NO ONE THINKS HE IS NOT WORTH MORE, NO ONE THINKS HE DOES NOT DESERVE A RAISE, PEOPLE JUST THINK HE IS GOING ABOUT IT IN THE WRONG WAY

[Kelly the Dog]

Is Boldin holding out or demanding that his contract be re-negotiated? He has every right to ask that his contract be re-negotiated to make something similar, this debate has nothing to do if anyone feels that Peters i worth the money or not, cause I don't think anyone is saying he isn't worth it. Its the fact that the Bills have said we will not re-negotiate or talk about it unless you are in camp. He would have alot more people on his side, and more leverage if he showed up like the Bills asked and they refuse to talk like they said they would.

 

Brandon has said the Bills expect him to honor his current contract. And to do that, he has to show up to camp. Of course they have also said they want him to play out his deal he signed 2 years ago, what GM wouldn't want him too? GM's would rather underpay then overpay. He never said they would not re-negotiate, just that they would like him to honor his contract and report, and that they don't negotiate unless he is in camp.

Do people live in a vacuum? Because if the Bills WERE actually willing to give him near what they are asking for, Brandon just sends a TEXT MESSAGE to Parker, saying, "Look, we don't want to open the flood gates for other players, we're close with what you want, come into camp and it will look like we both did the right thing, and you will get your money, or close to it." That way they can honestly say they never talked but Jason came to camp and then we negotiated.

 

The Bills want him, they just won't pay him this year. They're doing the right thing and he will play. It's impossible that they will pay him what he wants now, but won't tell his agent that until he comes to camp. It's just impossible.

[apuszczalowski]

Do people live in a vacuum? Because if the Bills WERE actually willing to give him near what they are asking for, Brandon just sends a TEXT MESSAGE to Parker, saying, "Look, we don't want to open the flood gates for other players, we're close with what you want, come into camp and it will look like we both did the right thing, and you will get your money, or close to it." That way they can honestly say they never talked but Jason came to camp and then we negotiated.

 

The Bills want him, they just won't pay him this year. They're doing the right thing and he will play. It's impossible that they will pay him what he wants now, but won't tell his agent that until he comes to camp. It's just impossible.

Or so you assume.

[Mickey]

you actually DONT disagree because i NEVER said we should let him hit free agency. thats ridiculous, and ive already stated numerous times in this thread that i think he DESERVES more money either this year or next year. both of those time frames are WELL BEFORE his current contract expires. of course i want the bills to re-sign those guys before their contracts expire.

 

my point is that you show young players that if they are willing to show up and work hard (i guess that is too much to ask from talented athletes nowadays) THEN we will be more than happy to renegotiate.

 

but if you pull baby games, you can sit home and rot.

 

that is all. there is nothing more to what i am saying than that.

Respectfully, I think the baby whining is all this stuff about only negotiating with a guy who is in camp. Its juvenile. This is big business, not a scout troop. It is about money, not moral principles. Just about 99% of every hold out that has ended in a new contract involved negotiating with the player not in camp. Jason Peters doesn't need to show the team or young players anything about showing up and working hard. These guys are paid large sums of money to play hard. That is essentially the bargain every player makes in the NFL, the team pays them their worth, they play their butts off. That is the deal. Obviously, Jason doesn't think he is getting paid his worth.

 

The reason Jason Peters is not getting a new contract isn't because he didn't come to camp. It is becasue the team doesn't want to pay the millions of dollars extra he wants.

 

Think about it, what makes more sense, that the team is trying to save millions of dollars or that they are worried about their impressionable younger players? Its the money. Always is.

[Turn Down For Watkins]

Maybe he's waiting for training camp to break??

He is still a fat bastard.

[Mickey]

Who is crapping all over Peters? People just want him to get his ass to camp, to re-negotiate with the team since they said they will not re-negotiate until he does.

 

NO ONE THINKS HE IS NOT WORTH MORE, NO ONE THINKS HE DOES NOT DESERVE A RAISE, PEOPLE JUST THINK HE IS GOING ABOUT IT IN THE WRONG WAY

Is it really necessary for me to link to every derogatory post about Peters on this board? Do a search on "Peters" and "greedy" or "fat-ass" for that matter.

 

The team has never unequivocally said they will renegotiate his contract if he comes in to camp and I don't understand why you keep citing them as having said done so. In reference to same, they have said that they expect him to live up to the commitment he made two years ago. As for renegotiating, they have said "never say never". How do you read "never say never" and hear "the team will give him a new contract if he just shows up to camp".

 

Rather than calling it an assumption, please explain to me from a practical standpoint, why the issue isn't the millions more that Peters wants, its his presence at camp. Just take us through your logic. Millions and millions = no problemo but

holdout = lose pro bowl left tackle.

 

Assumption, yes, a damn good one. While your assumption, that the team would easily and swiftly renegotiate his contract despite the extra millions it would cost if he just came to camp and negotiated here rather than on the phone is just silly.

[nucci]

Respectfully, I think the baby whining is all this stuff about only negotiating with a guy who is in camp. Its juvenile. This is big business, not a scout troop. It is about money, not moral principles. Just about 99% of every hold out that has ended in a new contract involved negotiating with the player not in camp. Jason Peters doesn't need to show the team or young players anything about showing up and working hard. These guys are paid large sums of money to play hard. That is essentially the bargain every player makes in the NFL, the team pays them their worth, they play their butts off. That is the deal. Obviously, Jason doesn't think he is getting paid his worth.

 

The reason Jason Peters is not getting a new contract isn't because he didn't come to camp. It is becasue the team doesn't want to pay the millions of dollars extra he wants.

 

Think about it, what makes more sense, that the team is trying to save millions of dollars or that they are worried about their impressionable younger players? Its the money. Always is.

This does not make sense. How can you be a holdout if you are IN camp?

[DrDawkinstein]

Is it really necessary for me to link to every derogatory post about Peters on this board? Do a search on "Peters" and "greedy" or "fat-ass" for that matter.

 

The team has never unequivocally said they will renegotiate his contract if he comes in to camp and I don't understand why you keep citing them as having said done so. In reference to same, they have said that they expect him to live up to the commitment he made two years ago. As for renegotiating, they have said "never say never". How do you read "never say never" and hear "the team will give him a new contract if he just shows up to camp".

 

Rather than calling it an assumption, please explain to me from a practical standpoint, why the issue isn't the millions more that Peters wants, its his presence at camp. Just take us through your logic. Millions and millions = no problemo but

holdout = lose pro bowl left tackle.

 

Assumption, yes, a damn good one. While your assumption, that the team would easily and swiftly renegotiate his contract despite the extra millions it would cost if he just came to camp and negotiated here rather than on the phone is just silly.

 

 

ok, fair enough. your have made good and valid points, no doubt. but how about this:

 

if you come to camp, then there is a chance we will renegotiate

 

if you DONT come to camp, then there is NO chance we renegotiate

[Mickey]

Doesn't this just kill your entire arguement????

 

That is also assuming that the average Joe is making $52,500 a year, which seems to me to be a little high for "Average", but still that number works. So for only one year, Peters could then live off that money as an average Joe Schmo for the next 39 years of his life. Thats not counting his signing bonus, or previous salaries, or the fact that when he is done his football career he can do whatever he wants, get a job, retire, go back to school and get an education, and he still has it better financially then the average person. He also only had to work 8 months max to make that money for the year.

 

He has all the rights to want more money, just like everyone else, but that doesn't mean we should feel sorry for him.

No one said you should feel sorry for him. It is people on your side of this calling him a greedy lazy bastard who should care more about the team than the financial security of his family. The only point I am making, that you still haven't addressed, is that he has just as much right to getting paid as much as he can for his services as you do. He doesn't play for a "team", he works for an employer, a business. It is no more his responsibility to take less pay than he is worth in the market than it is your responsibility to take a pay cut for the good of your employer/team. Maybe anyone who aspires to be more than a Joe Schmo is a fat greedy bastard to you but to those of us who are not socialist commies, I think he should get paid what he is worth.

 

If you want to end this arguement, just tell me how many times you have offered to take significantly less pay for the same job for the good of the "team". Peters is no different from any other player when it comes to securing the highest pay for his services. If you don't like it, go watch an intramural bowling league where they play for the pure love of the game...and beer.