Niagara Falls Stadium

[Dan]

Interesting thought about adding Toronto to the league although imo the league if anything should have fewer teams not more. Even so, it's not sellouts that make the difference, it's TV revenues and luxury seating. IMO that will be much easier in Toronto over time. In fact maybe especially in Toronto where they put the kibash on tailgating. I would think that parties in the suites would be even more popular there.

 

I can't imagine that the NFL's not trying to work out a solution to the tailgating thing though. that's pretty big.

You do realize that you just negated the majority of what you've been arguing in this thread with that one statement.

[krazykat]

Do you people think that the majority of WNYers would follow the team to Toronto? I sense not, and it would be mainly up to Canadians to support a Toronto Franchise.

 

This also says nothing of the leigons of out of town fans, who (imo) buy a decent proportion of Bills tickets, much more than in other cities.

Don't they say that 10% of the past season ticket sales are already Canadian and even more buy individuals?

 

Toronto is huge. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toronto

 

It's the fourth largest city in the US and Canada after NY, LA, and Chicago.

 

They wouldn't need Buffalo fans to follow. I'm also not sure they would want it. they would extend an invitation but will eventually have no trouble selling it out.

 

How the Miami game sells will tell us more but I doubt we'll be hearing reports from WGR on game day about tickets selling out front for $25 then.

 

I mean I just looked at Craigs list for NYC and I found 2 tix plus a parking pass to the Skins Jets game yesterday in which Favre was debuting for $100. Another pair for $100 for $125 tickets far less than the $350 in Toronto.

 

It's stupid in preseason to try to measure the value of tickets.

 

But you're right, it would be up to the Canadians to support their team. But there's also a long long way to drop ticket prices there before they would hit what they are in Buffalo too. Right now they seem to be the highest in the league.

[krazykat]

You do realize that you just negated the majority of what you've been arguing in this thread with that one statement.

Yes, sort of. What I've been arguing is that we haven't made the smartest moves. I never said that would be the difference at all. In fact imo the team would be having these issues anyway. But we won't ever know, will we.

 

It's a tough pill to just say ahh, screw it, nothing would have ever made a difference as we all but pave the way for the team leaving the region when we don't know.

 

TV ratings would have been helped by the addition of Pitt and Cleveland for sure. How much who knows though. Luxury boxes wouldn't have made much of a difference.

 

I think we can agree that Ralph doesn't and didn't know what he was doing though.

 

Anyone that really thinks that Ralph is some great friend of Buffalonians or WNYers is fooling themselves. Ralph is in it for Ralph and his family, which no one can fault him for. But what we can fault him for is the charade that he has perpetuated.

[krazykat]

You do realize that you just negated the majority of what you've been arguing in this thread with that one statement.

And still, unless you're one of those gotta beat Miami fans wouldn't it be a ton more fun playing against Cleveland and Pittsburgh twice each year? We would also have the option of going to Cleveland or Pitt for games. Sure, tickets would cost something outside, but at least we would have that option.

 

I think it would be far better. I mean honestly, WTF's left in the current Miami "rivalry?" Miami sucks and has for almost as long as we have and doesn't appear to getting incredibly better anytime soon although with Parcells I'm sure they're underway.

[Lv-Bills]

Interesting thought about adding Toronto to the league although imo the league if anything should have fewer teams not more. Even so, it's not sellouts that make the difference, it's TV revenues and luxury seating. IMO that will be much easier in Toronto over time. In fact maybe especially in Toronto where they put the kibash on tailgating. I would think that parties in the suites would be even more popular there.

 

I can't imagine that the NFL's not trying to work out a solution to the tailgating thing though. that's pretty big.

Well, it's also about sellouts if the ticket prices are more expensive. Having a stadium where the availability of tickets would be scarce would allow the Bils to raise prices to get them on par with the rest of league. The TV revenues are already there no matter what. That's not an issue.

 

Lastly, and most importantly, I would guarantee luxury seating would also go up. There would be corporations from Toronto, Pittsburgh and Cleveland, that would buy boxes on an individual game basis, should the Bills try to sell a few like that. I would guaranatee this. I would also bet that a couple of large companies would buy them on a seasont ticket basis who have stakes in all of the above mentioned Rust Belt Cities.

 

Case in point........my best friend is the head safety consultant for Laidlaw transit in the United States. His office is in Pittsburgh. Laidlaw has a suite at Ralph Wilson Stadium. When the Steelers play in Buffalo that box is filled with Steeler fans. Even for the hockey game, Laidlaw provided tons of tickets to Pittsburghers and Canadians for the event.

 

Laidlaw also has a major office in Toronto. On most Sunday home games at the Ralph, that Laidlaw box is probably filled with 75% Canadians from what I've seen in there from Toronto. I would bet other corps with regional interests in the Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Toronto areas would have some interests in RWS just to use it as a tool for their clients in the region.

 

I've heard my friends boss often say (jokingly), but there is always some truth in joking, that the only reason they keep the Buffalo sponsorhip is so that they can trade off tickets for Pittsburgh fans to attend hockey games in Toronto. Laidlaw often gives their box to clients and colleagues from New York for Jets fans, Pittsburghers on the rare occasion they visit Buffalo, and a bunch of football fans from Toronto.

 

The luxury money would follow suit in this scenario as well.

 

Imagine this schedule for the Bills when they play the NFC East (we'll sub last year's schedule), and if Toronto would join the league in a revamped division......

 

Home Schedule:

 

Pittsburgh

Cleveland

Toronto

Detroit

Dallas

N.Y Giants

Two other teams

 

The Bills could almost charge whatever they wanted for tickets.

[Dan]

Yes, sort of. What I've been arguing is that we haven't made the smartest moves. I never said that would be the difference at all. In fact imo the team would be having these issues anyway. But we won't ever know, will we.

 

It's a tough pill to just say ahh, screw it, nothing would have ever made a difference as we all but pave the way for the team leaving the region when we don't know.

 

TV ratings would have been helped by the addition of Pitt and Cleveland for sure. How much who knows though. Luxury boxes wouldn't have made much of a difference.

 

I think we can agree that Ralph doesn't and didn't know what he was doing though.

 

Anyone that really thinks that Ralph is some great friend of Buffalonians or WNYers is fooling themselves. Ralph is in it for Ralph and his family, which no one can fault him for. But what we can fault him for is the charade that he has perpetuated.

I would disagree with much of this.

 

First of all, at the time of realignment, the Bills/Dolphins rivalry was in full swing. That was, by far, the biggest draw each year. There were a very small few that wanted the Bills/Dolphins rivalry to be over at that time. I'm not sure how that can be considered a bad move, let alonoe his worst move.

 

The problem with the Bills in the region has never been fan support or attendance at games. Even in the leanest of years, the Bills have been in the top half of the league in ticket sales. The problem with the Bills stems from a lack of corporate support. Corporations provide all the expendable cash that allows teams to be highly profitable and acquire the high-priced free agents.

 

TV ratings will go up if, and when, the Bills become a playoff team. Imagine if the Bills could seriously contend with the Pats* for the AFC East every year, they'd have 2 prime time games a year, if that were the case. But, how many people want to watch a bad team get rolled over another? Even if we were playing the Steelers, Browns or Detroit twice a year, those games wouldn't get big TV audiences. Do you really think a Detroit/Bills game would be worthy of a national audience?

 

I would disagree completely with your comments on Ralph. He quite clearly knows what he's doing. He's owned an NFL franchise for quite some time and done nothing but guarantee that team stay in Buffalo as long as he's alive. To even suggest that he doesn't know what he's doing or doesn't care about Buffalo, is to utter laziness of thought. It's kinda like watching Phelps win his 8th gold medal rather easily last night and concluding that he's not really that great - without any understanding of how he got to that point, the history of the sport, the history of the Olympics, or any understanding of his competitors. To say that Ralph has not done enough to ensure the Bills stay in Buffalo, completely ignores everything he's done for the last 40+ years. Think about that for a second... the Bills have been in Buffalo longer than many posters have been alive. Why? Because of one man.

 

But perhaps you're right. Ralph should have just given up on this charade of pretending to want the Bills in Buffalo back in the late 60's. The last 40 years have really sucked knowing that he really hates Buffalo and can't wait until he dies so the team can be sold and make billions for himself.

 

 

And still, unless you're one of those gotta beat Miami fans wouldn't it be a ton more fun playing against Cleveland and Pittsburgh twice each year? We would also have the option of going to Cleveland or Pitt for games. Sure, tickets would cost something outside, but at least we would have that option.

 

I think it would be far better. I mean honestly, WTF's left in the current Miami "rivalry?" Miami sucks and has for almost as long as we have and doesn't appear to getting incredibly better anytime soon although with Parcells I'm sure they're underway.

What's the difference in playing a bad Miami team or a bad Cleveland team? How is playing the Browns any more fun? Personally, I'd rather play the team with a history between us. You can still go to Cleveland and Pittsburgh for games. If that's your idea of a great time... seeing Pittsburgh and/or Cleveland play, then you have plenty of oppurtunities each year. In fact, they play each other twice a year. You could see both of them in the same week. How great would that be?!

[sven233]

Hey guys....I know this is a very touchy subject. In fact, it just PI**ES me off that we even have to worry about this team leaving. But instead of focusing on the bad stuff, let's try to figure out some things that would make a new stadium WORK instead of all of the things that may make it not work. What I mean, is for now, put the financing part aside for now. I know it is perhaps the BIGGEST part of the whole new stadium idea, but let's talk about making the stadium as practical as possible first and then focus on the financing aspect of things.

 

IDEAS:

 

LOCATION: Well a lot has been said of where a new stadium would make the most sense. There are a lot of good ideas out there, but what it comes down to is where it would be the most convenient for Buffalo, Rochester, and Canadian fans to meet. In this case, probably either Downtown or Niagara Falls does make the most sense. The new stadium should be easily accessed from all of the surrounding cities. It should be tied in with not only the attractions currently here (Niagara Falls, Restaurants, Casinos, etc.), but in an area where more attractions can be added.

 

STADIUM ITSELF: In order for a stadium to be practical and useful, it needs to be able to be used YEAR ROUND for many different types of events.....not just 7-10 dates per year. As much as it pains me to say it, if a new stadium were to be built, to make it more practical, it would probably have to have a dome. I HATE SAYING THIS and I know that most Bills fans will hate the idea (I do as well), but it has to be done. Maybe a retractable dome would work and it would satisfy everyone. Football fans could still have their outdoor games, but with the dome closed, it could be used for SEVERAL other events and dates through the year. Just look at all of the other possibilities that would come available if you were able to use the stadium all year. Concerts, large auto shows, conventions, among several other attractions could be placed in a stadium YEAR ROUND instead of just 7-10 dates a year. It would make the stadium more practical. A 68,000+ seat stadium would be about right.

 

STADIUM EXTRAS: The whole idea behind a new stadium is to find a way to make it an attraction in its on right. I mean with Niagara Falls, the Waterfront, Casinos, etc. there is no reason Buffalo/Niagara Falls can't be among the top tourist attractions in the country. I know, as of right now, nothing is developed and that is a lot of the problem, but I think with a little thought and effort, it wouldn't take that much to improve dramatically. Along with the new stadium, what if a Buffalo Sports Hall of Fame was actually built? What if there was a Buffalo Museum, a Buffalo Bills Museum, etc. that accompanied the stadium (or even built into the stadium) was added to add more attractions to the new stadium area? Adding those things to the existing Falls and Casinos would give more people more options and things to do (not to mention what events might be occurring in the new stadium). New hotels and restaurants could be added for even more reasons to visit.

 

 

Look, I know all of this is a long shot. It would be very difficult to pull off (especially financially up front). But I just think there is a lot of potential that could be tapped into in this are if it I done right. I haven't really thought about this at all. These are just some ideas off the top of my head. There are a lot smarter people than me out there that could take these basics and really turn it into something special.

 

Again, it is a long shot, but I guess I am just sick and tired of all the doom and gloom around here. Everyone is saying that we don't have this and don't have that. We can't to this and we can't do that. Well, that thinking is why we are where we are. I think it is time to change that thinking someway, somehow. Instead of focusing on what we can't do, let's try to figure out a way to DO IT!!!! Nothing positive will come out of negative thinking. It's time to think outside the box a little. It is time to get creative. It may be risky in some cases, but I for one am sick and tired of coming to these boards and looking at the TV, reading the paper, etc. and hearing everything and every excuse as to why things are so bad and will only get worse. Granted, it is the reality of where we are right now, and we have to deal with it instead of just looking at it and just giving up. I LOVE BUFFALO AND I LOVE THE BUFFALO BILLS. I WANT TO MAKE SURE I, AND US AS A COMMUNITY, DO EVERYTHING WE POSSIBLY CAN TO NOT ONLY KEEP THE BILLS, BUT TO MAKE THIS CITY AND THE SURROUNDING AREAS SOMEHNG SPECIAL AGAIN.

 

I may get blasted by a lot of you on this board. I realize that. Many of you think all of this is totally impossible and I can't ay as though I blame you for feeling that way. It is tough to see it any other way at this point. But I firmly believe that with some positive thinking and some creativity and hard work, that things can change. Heck, I think even using some common sense once in a while would help things get better in a hurry. But yeah.....I know it isn't easy. Where is the money going to come from? I don't know yet. Who is going to make this stuff happen? I don't know yet. There are a lot of unanswered questions here. I understand that. But, that is not the point of this post. The point of this post is that things will not get better if we keep thinking the way many of us round here are thinking. It is time to think about how we can make things happen and not about all of things that are preventing things from happening and just giving up.

 

Feel free to add o the ideas above. I know there are a lot of creative thinkers on this board and I believe there are a lot of great ideas out there that you guys have. And I would love to hear them.....

 

And to those who think I'm in fantasy land, that's fine. I understand. BLAST AWAY!!! I don't care. I truly believe that good things can happen with enough hard work. Buffalo has never been handed anything. We have to work just to remain relevant. But, this is a FIGHTING TOWN and I believe in this town and I believe things can change. It is just a matter of figuring out what WILL WORK first. Then, focus on how to make it happen.

[nodnarb]

I want this stadium IN downtown Buffalo. Not Niagara Falls. Downtown Buffalo would thrive off of this!

 

 

Missing the point. A stadium in NF will do more to effectively regionalize and attract toronto money/fans while keeping the Bills the BUFFALO Bills.

 

No way can the Bills survive as an NFL team without Toronto money.

[Glass To The Arson]

vote

 

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/8450106...s-best-fan-base?