Tough roster decisions

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Will they keep him and decide we don't need Royal's leadership? I don't know, touch decision.

Rregarding the TE's, I think Royal's days might be numbered. Not that he's a bad TE, this is just a bad system for any TE. I really believe that even Gates, Gonzalez or Winslow would have looked mediocre at best in the Bills system the last few years. The TE is an afterthought on this team and if they can go cheaper and younger, they probably will. Schouman, Fine and Anderson might be left standing when all is said and done but does it really matter? Sad but true since the statistics really hammer out that fact. Who knows, they might keep an extra OL, put him in and declare himself eligible on most plays. That's how underutilized that position really is with this coaching staff.

The DB's on the other hand is actually going to be interesting how it plays out. I agree that they will probably keep 6 CB's with Cox being on the practice squad as a flex backup at both corner and safety. It's also likely that the backup SS isn't even on the current roster. Wendling might make the team as a ST player but if something were to happen to Whitner or Simpson, the Bills might aggresively pursue a trade of some sort instead of looking on the street this year.

There is NO WAY Royal gets cut. According to all evidence we have so far he's our best recieving tight end, and he's easily our best blocking tight end. He's a leader, and he's been here for a few years. There's no way he gets cut, and there's no logical reason for him to get cut.

 

He may be the definition of mediocre, but he's the best we've got.

[Pyrite Gal]

Almost all of these posts seem to miss what will be the key factor on virtually any player who may or may not get cut (particularly the CBs) which is whether there is a clear role for that player as a contributor on ST. It is understandable how we fans can become almost psychotically addicted to assessing where a player fits in our ranks of position play because this is what we outsiders can easily see.

 

However, the simple fact is that particularly with Bobby April and the ST having done so well and in fact April needed to be elevated to an asst HC position in order to keep him, the thing which almost certainly will determine who are the 50-53rd players on this roster is going to be their ST play.

[Oneonta Buffalo Fan 2]

I think im the only one around here that thinks Robert Royal is a decent TE........

I think your now the only one but he can't really catch.

[Bill from NYC]

Cannot catch is an extreme exaggeration and people usually exaggerate when they have no case.

 

Do you think that his hands are even average? Please state your case.

[flomoe]

So its an exaggerration that he drops passes more than the usual NFL calibur player? Because he does...

 

I believe that is was Michael Gaines that we saw dropping passes by the boatload last year and not Royal. I'm not saying that Royal didn't drop any, I'm just saying that is number of drops is much less than what we saw out of Gaines.

[buffalobillsDDS]

So its an exaggerration that he drops passes more than the usual NFL calibur player? Because he does...

IF ROBERT ROYAL GETS BOTH FEET IN BOUNDS AFTER A GREAT PASS THE BILLS WOULD HAVE A TD INSTEAD OF THE USUAL FG==========THE DIFFERENCE IN THE GAME.....THIS WAS IN THE TITANS GAME AT BUFFALO

[Tsaikotic]

I think I can say now at this point in the game 2 TD's by Royal that he makes the team

[Pyrite Gal]

Do you think that his hands are even average? Please state your case.

Royal's case tonight was made by his two TD catches. I was quite surprised he had it in him as the first TD showed great ability in gathering in this toss which had to be thrown hard to thread the needle created by three defenders and the second catch was all great hands as he plucked it out of the air.

 

While two catches do not outweigh an entire career as primarily a blocking TE, he did reach a personal best last year so a reasonable case can be made that he can improve on this baseline.

 

You called him out BFNYC, it is only reasonable that you say something about his response in how he produced tonight.

[jarthur31]

I haven't heard much about James. It really wouldn't surprise me that much to see him cut - he doesn't have a track record with this coaching staff, unlike veterans McGee and Greer, and no draft resources were invested in him, unlike McKelvin and Corner... It seems to me he was brought in as a guy who is trying to rehabilitate his career, and if he doesn't impress the Bills can let him go without too much of a negative impact.

 

If Youboty plays well in some more preseason games but not well enough to secure a starting spot I would expect the team to entertain trade offers for him. IMO he'd have to play well enough to unseat Greer to make the team opt to keep him vs. trading him.

 

I fully expect that McGee, Greer, McKelvin, and Corner will be on the opening day roster. Then, if they want a fifth, whoever performs better out of Youboty/James.

 

Ditto! Youboty should've been a lock but he got burned badly on that TD. He was playing off his man in zone and still got burned!!! James had done nothing in preseason games that made him stand out positively, IMO.

[scribo]

I think your now the only one but he can't really catch.

I think he may have improved his hands. Of course, it is only preseason.

 

I'd say Youboty hurt his chances, Wright hurt his chances, Omon didn't hurt his chances, and Anderson didn't do anything. But Shouman actually hurting himself obviously helps Anderson fo the time being. Royal, Fine and Corner didn't need to do anything.

[Bill from NYC]

Royal's case tonight was made by his two TD catches. I was quite surprised he had it in him as the first TD showed great ability in gathering in this toss which had to be thrown hard to thread the needle created by three defenders and the second catch was all great hands as he plucked it out of the air.

 

While two catches do not outweigh an entire career as primarily a blocking TE, he did reach a personal best last year so a reasonable case can be made that he can improve on this baseline.

 

You called him out BFNYC, it is only reasonable that you say something about his response in how he produced tonight.

 

Oh absolutely! He looked great. Drops would have really hurt the team.

 

My post actually praised Royal (probably not enough) in all other aspects of the game. He is as strong as an ox, moves well, and even gets open. The Skins never would have let go of him if they thought he had hands. Who would? Last year he dropped passes, and juggled many of the ones he caught.

 

If Royal turns into a solid receiver, you are looking at a very good to perhaps great player.

[Pyrite Gal]

I think he may have improved his hands. Of course, it is only preseason.

 

I'd say Youboty hurt his chances, Wright hurt his chances, Omon didn't hurt his chances, and Anderson didn't do anything. But Shouman actually hurting himself obviously helps Anderson fo the time being. Royal, Fine and Corner didn't need to do anything.

Youboty is an interesting case as I suspect that his chances of making the team will rise and fall not on his position play at CB, but an assessment of who will make the larger contribution on ST among the reserve CBs. Right now, McGee and Greer get the starts.

 

Its still too early to tell as the highlights for him are clearly return duty and the low light for him was not yelling folks away from a bouncing punt loudly enough (an eminently fixable problem so not a real worry) but he seems to be getting a good look at coverage duty and as I think it is going to be tough to not employ either McGee or Parrish as lead return guys McKelvin may actually get the primary nod as the nickel back.

 

James and Youbouty then get to duel over the informal nod as the 4th and essentially dime CB. In essence, the braintrust probably picks the guy based on an assessment of individual match-ups and the key for who makes the squad becomes really who will contribute most on ST.

 

Corner and Fox and Youbouty all have won some praise for particular skill sets (Corner is an active player with great athletic ability, Fox won praise last night for having surprising speed, Youbouty probably has helped himself a lot in the first two pre-season games with notable individual plays in each game with an INT in the opener and a sack on a CB blitz which sealed the deal last night. I did not notice Cox last night but found him unimpressive in the opener.

 

We shall see as the plot thickens.

[Matt in KC]

Youboty continued to look very tentative, shying away from being physical and joining in tackles.

 

For a second game in a row I was impressed with Corner's play, for a rookie 4th round pick. He looks like he's going to be an active physical corner. It'll be fun to watch him develop.

 

It's great to see Royal back. Anyone who think he won't make the team for any reasnother than injury is crazy. Of course this is clearer to many poeple after the game than it was a week ago.

 

 

Expanding to more than just CB / TE:

Props to Ellis. He seems to be "arriving" and I expect him to get reps during the regular season.

 

So long as he stops fumbling, I think Wright's performance the last two game really shows improvement from last year. So long as he stops fumbling...

 

I'm also really impressed with Omon for a rookie 6th rounder from a small program. He really showed good punch at the line, and good balance/tenacity. It does seem like he's struggling to see the field a bit (as is to be expected). I'm excited to see him next year after the game slows down and he works out for a year in an NFL program.

 

Since I'm talking about RBs... Jackson continues to impress. I feel much better knowing he can come in if anything happens... [sentence un-thought].

 

 

Doesn't look like a rookie to me

McKelvin

Hardy

Corner

 

Still looks like a rookie (but shouldn't)

Youboty

Preston

JP (we all know he's hot and cold, inconsistency I associate with being inexperienced.)

[Pyrite Gal]

Youboty continued to look very tentative, shying away from being physical and joining in tackles.

 

For a second game in a row I was impressed with Corner's play, for a rookie 4th round pick. He looks like he's going to be an active physical corner. It'll be fun to watch him develop.

That certainly was not what I saw and the game stats (stats are certainly not conclusive as they can be made to show almost anything but they are an indicator which without some clear examples being shown which contradicts them they are foolish to ignore).

 

The game stats directly contradict your observations in that Youbouty was second on the team in this games for tackles he was credited with. The best argument to be made that he did not join in on tackles was that there was no one to join in with as he made the stops himself getting credited with 3 solo tackles out of the 4 he was credited with.

 

On the converse, Corner seemed to have a pretty non-notable game ringing up 2 assists.

 

In terms of relying on what one saw rather than only looking at what the stats say, Youbouty clearly had no problem being physical and logging a sack on a CB blitz which really sealed the game late. Even complaints that Youbouty needed to wrestle Dixon to the ground rather than simply lighting him up with a hit ignores the fact that Dixon is a great runner (note his massive TD scamper earlier in the game) and that it seems to me a player who was really tentative physically as you say would actually have not been able to stick with the tackle and ride Dixon down for a solo sack.

 

I though Corner was adequate for a rookie but unless you can site the particular plays in question, i think he did not shine at all in this game and easily could be more of a PS candidate for development rather than a real contributor the 08 team so far.

 

I need to go back and pour over the tape before drawing any final conclusions (for example, though Wilson was the player closest to the Pitt player who lit us up with RoboQB on a nice TD, it appears that it was a lack of help from Youbouty at CB which may have been the cause of Wilson getting burned.

 

Still, based on what you saw vis a vis Youbouty and Corner you were looking at a different game than the one I saw and both the stats and the notable events (a sack by Youbouty and nothing memorable for Corner makes me wonder what you saw.

 

I look forward to getting educated by your response as to which specific plays I should look for.

[Dr. K]

Oh absolutely! He looked great. Drops would have really hurt the team.

 

My post actually praised Royal (probably not enough) in all other aspects of the game. He is as strong as an ox, moves well, and even gets open. The Skins never would have let go of him if they thought he had hands. Who would? Last year he dropped passes, and juggled many of the ones he caught.

 

If Royal turns into a solid receiver, you are looking at a very good to perhaps great player.

 

Where did this "Royal has bad hands" meme get started? I watched every game last season, and I remember Gaines, not Royal, being the big butterfingers at TE. In particular, I remember Gaines dropping one in the Cleveland ice bowl that might have turned the game around. I'd like to see the hard evidence before I buy this particular bill of goods.

 

The worst play I remember from Royal ever with the Bills was his failing to get his feet down in the Tennessee game the Bills lost by one point. But that's it.

[Matt in KC]

That certainly was not what I saw and the game stats (stats are certainly not conclusive as they can be made to show almost anything but they are an indicator which without some clear examples being shown which contradicts them they are foolish to ignore).

 

The game stats directly contradict your observations in that Youbouty was second on the team in this games for tackles he was credited with. The best argument to be made that he did not join in on tackles was that there was no one to join in with as he made the stops himself getting credited with 3 solo tackles out of the 4 he was credited with.

 

On the converse, Corner seemed to have a pretty non-notable game ringing up 2 assists.

 

In terms of relying on what one saw rather than only looking at what the stats say, Youbouty clearly had no problem being physical and logging a sack on a CB blitz which really sealed the game late. Even complaints that Youbouty needed to wrestle Dixon to the ground rather than simply lighting him up with a hit ignores the fact that Dixon is a great runner (note his massive TD scamper earlier in the game) and that it seems to me a player who was really tentative physically as you say would actually have not been able to stick with the tackle and ride Dixon down for a solo sack.

 

I though Corner was adequate for a rookie but unless you can site the particular plays in question, i think he did not shine at all in this game and easily could be more of a PS candidate for development rather than a real contributor the 08 team so far.

 

I need to go back and pour over the tape before drawing any final conclusions (for example, though Wilson was the player closest to the Pitt player who lit us up with RoboQB on a nice TD, it appears that it was a lack of help from Youbouty at CB which may have been the cause of Wilson getting burned.

 

Still, based on what you saw vis a vis Youbouty and Corner you were looking at a different game than the one I saw and both the stats and the notable events (a sack by Youbouty and nothing memorable for Corner makes me wonder what you saw.

 

I look forward to getting educated by your response as to which specific plays I should look for.

I look forward to educating you as to which specific plays I reacted to. I saved the game on the DVR, so I'll look for examples, but it'll will be awhile since I'm busy at work. I watched late last night, somaybe I wasn't seeing straight, but don't think so. I like throwing my observations out there not because I fancy myself some type of expert or authority (I'm not nearly, just a 30 year casual fan), but more to compare notes and see if anyone else saw it the same way.

 

When Youboty had the INT last week (which looked great) and the sack this game I thought to myself "someone's going to see that and think he had a good game." For the sack he came through relatively unblocked. Sure he may have disguised what he was doing, but the sack was more a factor of the defensive play call and (lack of) O blocking. I'd expect any of the defenders to be able to sack a QB if they were unblocked.

 

Youboty's second best tackle stats: three solo, one assist aren't that impressive. He played (nearly?) the whole game, and tackles are not that good a stat for a CB anyway (why do they keep throwing to his receiver?). The stats for Bryon Scott are basically identical (4 solo) but he looked to be contributing much more to me. And I don't think he was on the field for half as long.

 

For Corner, I mostly noticed that he was throwing his body around like a safety. Also, I noticed him closing quickly and hitting, something that struck me as not being like a rookie where the game is moving too fast for him.

[Matt in KC]

Youboty's stat line plays from nfl.com:

9-R.Lindell kicks 71 yards from BUF 30 to PIT -1. 15-W.Reid to PIT 25 for 26 yards (26-A.Youboty).

1-10-PIT 44 (4:12) B.Leftwich in at QB. 4-B.Leftwich pass deep middle to 85-N.Washington to BUF 32 for 24 yards (26-A.Youboty). Caught on run at BUF 36.

2-3-PIT 48 (10:38) 2-D.Dixon pass short middle to 15-W.Reid to BUF 46 for 6 yards (26-A.Youboty; 27-R.Corner). Caught at BUF 48, crossing from left side.

3-8-PIT 46 (5:33) (Shotgun) 2-D.Dixon scrambles left tackle to BUF 47 for 7 yards (26-A.Youboty).

1-10-PIT 20 (1:37) (Shotgun) 2-D.Dixon sacked at PIT 7 for -13 yards (26-A.Youboty). We blitzed on 1-10 in preseason? The Steelers and I were suprised!

 

And don't forget: 1-10-BUF 40 (6:34) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass deep left to 10-S.Holmes for 40 yards, TOUCHDOWN. Caught 7 yds. into end zone.

3-Je.Reed extra point is GOOD, Center-60-G.Warren, Holder-17-M.Berger.

 

 

Corner:

3-13-PIT 46 (7:15) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 21-M.Moore to BUF 40 for 14 yards (52-J.DiGiorgio, 27-R.Corner). Caught at BUF 47. (Ouch!)

2-3-PIT 48 (10:38) 2-D.Dixon pass short middle to 15-W.Reid to BUF 46 for 6 yards (26-A.Youboty; 27-R.Corner). Caught at BUF 48, crossing from left side.

3-13-PIT 46 (7:15) (Shotgun) 7-B.Roethlisberger pass short middle to 21-M.Moore to BUF 40 for 14 yards (52-J.DiGiorgio, 27-R.Corner). Caught at BUF 47. (Ouch!)

 

Yikes! Those are bad outcomes. I do think he was throwing his body around, but those are not good results.

 

 

Scott:

9-R.Lindell kicks 64 yards from BUF 30 to PIT 6. 21-M.Moore to PIT 23 for 17 yards (43-B.Scott).

4-10-BUF 45 (1:35) 5-P.Ernster punts 45 yards to end zone, Center-60-G.Warren, Touchback. N.Washington attempted to keep ball in field, but was in end zone. Penalty incurred during kick. PENALTY on BUF-43-B.Scott, Defensive Holding, 10 yards, enforced at BUF 20. I don't think the broadcast mentioned this was Scott.

1-10-BUF 32 (3:40) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to BUF 30 for 2 yards (43-B.Scott).

3-12-PIT 36 (4:41) (Shotgun) 4-B.Leftwich pass incomplete deep left to 87-M.Rucker (43-B.Scott). Receiver and breakup in flat at BUF 44.

2-1-BUF 9 (3:48) 34-R.Mendenhall up the middle to BUF 9 for no gain (43-B.Scott, 57-D.Spragan).

3-1-BUF 9 (3:09) 34-R.Mendenhall left guard to BUF 7 for 2 yards (43-B.Scott). (next play after the above)1-10-PIT 22 (1:34) 4-B.Leftwich pass short right to 42-B.Latsko to PIT 25 for 3 yards (43-B.Scott). Caught along sideline at PIT 25.

[Pyrite Gal]

I look forward to educating you as to which specific plays I reacted to. I saved the game on the DVR, so I'll look for examples, but it'll will be awhile since I'm busy at work. I watched late last night, somaybe I wasn't seeing straight, but don't think so. I like throwing my observations out there not because I fancy myself some type of expert or authority (I'm not nearly, just a 30 year casual fan), but more to compare notes and see if anyone else saw it the same way.

 

When Youboty had the INT last week (which looked great) and the sack this game I thought to myself "someone's going to see that and think he had a good game." For the sack he came through relatively unblocked. Sure he may have disguised what he was doing, but the sack was more a factor of the defensive play call and (lack of) O blocking. I'd expect any of the defenders to be able to sack a QB if they were unblocked.

 

Youboty's second best tackle stats: three solo, one assist aren't that impressive. He played (nearly?) the whole game, and tackles are not that good a stat for a CB anyway (why do they keep throwing to his receiver?). The stats for Bryon Scott are basically identical (4 solo) but he looked to be contributing much more to me. And I don't think he was on the field for half as long.

 

For Corner, I mostly noticed that he was throwing his body around like a safety. Also, I noticed him closing quickly and hitting, something that struck me as not being like a rookie where the game is moving too fast for him.

Many thanks for the observations. Despite my usual verbosity I do not see myself as some all knowing expert on the game as well.

 

In fact, if I knew it all then guaranteed it would be boring and unsurprising to me. I was no way being facetious in saying I would be educated a lot by direction to some specific plays which I should have noted where Youbouty was tentative or Corner stood out. I agree as I said that stats can give a false impression, for example. though my game watching was somewhat hindered by my going off to Olympic land to be distracted, one of the things I felt will need more detailed review when I go back to the game tonight (my significant other is going off to see Hello Dolly at a community theatre in Tonawanda tonite so I will get some time to review and rewind the tape) was that I felt Scott missed a couple of key tackles so him leading the team in tackles may actually obscure a more true assessment of his game last night.

 

I look forward to your and other observations and will try to find time amidst a wedding tomorrow and some gig with my in-laws on Sunday to comment.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

The worst play I remember from Royal ever with the Bills was his failing to get his feet down in the Tennessee game the Bills lost by one point. But that's it.

On a potential LEE EVANS TOUCHDOWN PASS.

[bowery4]

Thanks this is interesting guys hope you do keep at it. Myself I only got to see replay highlights and in those Youboty loses to the Corner kid.