ExiledInIllinois Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 My wife mentioned that the pool is deeper than usual, and the lane dividers are improved to reduce turbulence - so new records were expected. Not taking anything away from Phelps - he's phenomenal. I was wondering about the lane dividers... Thanx! Didn't seem to help the French, Lesak was sure riding the wave that last leg... Or seemed to be in a great position turbulence wise... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveRalph Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Oh, and if Gary Hall can't be believed: http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/summer08/col...&id=3524709 Just because he's the arguably the best swimmer in the world, doesn't mean he's the best at every event. Hahahahahahaah!! The article itself said "Based on a prelim time swam in Omaha to assure his spot on the relay." So, Phelps at the US Championships in Omaha, knows he needs to swim fast enough to make it into the top 4. Do you think he was really hammering it? Have you WATCHED any of the swimming events in the Olympics??? The dude is in a class of his own. I don't think there's any "arguably" about it when you're saying Best Swimmer in the World. I don't need a tard like Gary Hall telling me he's not that fast...I can see with my own eyes that he is!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 To make it fair and equal, shouldn't all the swimmers have to wear the same swimming gear, or swim nude to remove the technology factor? Likewise, the runners should all wear the same brand of shoe, and the pole vaulters should all use the same pole, just hand it to the next person. That way you'd get a real measure of who's better based on skill. What about the guy with the fake leg? Should they all have the same legs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 If Phelps being #5 in the world in the 100 free makes him the US's weakest leg of the relay, wouldn't they have said the US has 4 of the top 5 times, not 4 of the top 8? Look, like many of us here, I'm not an expert at Olympic swimming. I was relating a quote I heard from someone who is much more of an expert than the vast majority of people in the world. His opinion was that Phelps was the weakest member on the team, and for the team to have a chance, he needed to bring his best performance. Kudos to Phelps for coming through with a stellar performance. I related the quote, and was told that it was incorrect. I was just pointing out another source that says his 100m freestyle isn't something he's dominant at. I'm sure the experts on this board know much more about swimming than Gary, so I'm sure he must have been mistaken with his comment. Here's a breakdown of the race: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ua8ycqfc4ok/SKA6...elay+splits.gif So apparently Phelps' actual performance was only the second worst on the team. Making him far and away not the weakest link. Stupid Gary Hall Jr. not knowing what he was talking about. I mean geez, out of the 2 fastest teams (8 swimmers), Phelps had the 5th best time. It must have really been tough for him to carry his team like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 (edited) Look, like many of us here, I'm not an expert at Olympic swimming. I was relating a quote I heard from someone who is much more of an expert than the vast majority of people in the world. His opinion was that Phelps was the weakest member on the team, and for the team to have a chance, he needed to bring his best performance. Kudos to Phelps for coming through with a stellar performance. I related the quote, and was told that it was incorrect. I was just pointing out another source that says his 100m freestyle isn't something he's dominant at. I'm sure the experts on this board know much more about swimming than Gary, so I'm sure he must have been mistaken with his comment. Here's a breakdown of the race: http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ua8ycqfc4ok/SKA6...elay+splits.gif So apparently Phelps' actual performance was only the second worst on the team. Making him far and away not the weakest link. Stupid Gary Hall Jr. not knowing what he was talking about. I mean geez, out of the 2 fastest teams (8 swimmers), Phelps had the 5th best time. It must have really been tough for him to carry his team like that. Did you realize that splits on the 1st leg are typically slower than other splits because the racers are going off the sound of the starter's pistol and not the visual of their teammate touching the wall? Which is why individual records can be set on the 1st leg of a relay but no other leg. Phelps beat the French team's expected 2nd best swimmer by 4/10ths of a second. He actually was 6th out of the 8 swimmers you mentioned in that particular race. He beat the French lead man and he beat Jones and he had the handicap of starting 1st. I'd expect the way Bernard trailed off, Phelps would have been very close to Bernard and the 3rd French swimmer if all had had relay starts. If Phelps were expected to be the weakest of the 4 US swimmers he would have raced the 2nd leg. It turned out the weakest link on that day and in that race was Jones who was expected to be the 2nd weakest of the 4. (Random aside: it strikes me very odd that we are discussing "weakest links" regarding men that can swim 100 m in ~47 seconds.) Edited August 12, 2008 by Taro T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 What about the guy with the fake leg? Should they all have the same legs? That's why they have the paralympics. No artificial enhancements in the Olympics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Miner Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 If Phelps were expected to be the weakest of the 4 US swimmers he would have raced the 2nd leg. It turned out the weakest link on that day and in that race was Jones who was expected to be the 2nd weakest of the 4. (Random aside: it strikes me very odd that we are discussing "weakest links" regarding men that can swim 100 m in ~47 seconds.) This was really the point of my first comment. It's not that Phelps isn't good, but that was a race in which he wasn't the "best", and still had a great performance along with his 3 teammates. Did Gary really mean Phelps was really a "weak link", or did he just mean that he wasn't considered the best at this event? I don't know but I'd probably lean more towards the latter. I think his point (and mine) were that this was a complete team win with everyone blowing the doors off of what was expected from them. That as amazing as Phelps was in this race, his 3 teammates were all just as amazing, and that all 4 had to be amazing to accomplish what they did. As you stated above, picking a "weak link" from 4 people that can all swim 100m in ~47 seconds is pretty impossible to do, and probably a moot point anyway. While relay positions are normally how you described above, I wasn't (and won't ever be) on the men's swimming team to know if they followed a standard setup, or tweaked their relay strategy a bit due to one factor or another. I don't know and don't care, it was just an amazing performance from those 4 guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 I used to take swimming lessons at West Seneca East Jr. High when I was a child... Still remember the poster of Mark Spitz with the seven Golds around his next... Will the next generation be graced by eight as inspiration! Yep...minus the pornstache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 That's why they have the paralympics. No artificial enhancements in the Olympics. I agree. Yet, is the world ready for "better" results in certain events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 To make it fair and equal, shouldn't all the swimmers have to wear the same swimming gear, or swim nude to remove the technology factor? Likewise, the runners should all wear the same brand of shoe, and the pole vaulters should all use the same pole, just hand it to the next person. That way you'd get a real measure of who's better based on skill. That's what they used to do time out of mind ago for all events (it was mostly track and field back in the day). No one wants to see that nowadays (except for some of the women -- i.e. Stephanie Rice). Imagine the flopping!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UConn James Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 He actually was 6th out of the 8 swimmers you mentioned in that particular race. He beat the French lead man and he beat Jones and he had the handicap of starting 1st. I'd expect the way Bernard trailed off, Phelps would have been very close to Bernard and the 3rd French swimmer if all had had relay starts. If Phelps were expected to be the weakest of the 4 US swimmers he would have raced the 2nd leg. It turned out the weakest link on that day and in that race was Jones who was expected to be the 2nd weakest of the 4. (Random aside: it strikes me very odd that we are discussing "weakest links" regarding men that can swim 100 m in ~47 seconds.) Facts suck, huh? Joe, frankly, I wouldn't put my money on the word of Gary Hall Jr. There's a reason why he's a swimmer and an attention whore (during the USA team qualifying he wore a cape to the pool saying something like "Prince of the Pool"... and then finished near last), not a coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 To make it fair and equal, shouldn't all the swimmers have to wear the same swimming gear, or swim nude to remove the technology factor? Likewise, the runners should all wear the same brand of shoe, and the pole vaulters should all use the same pole, just hand it to the next person. That way you'd get a real measure of who's better based on skill. I have to call you out on this one. What you are saying is kinda like everyone has to wear a size 10 shoe. With pole vault, the poles are rated for the athlete's weight and skill level. Your faster, stronger vaulters can generate more power. Thus, they can use longer poles as they can get some bend in these longer poles, and get up in the air. Due to a weight rating for each pole, if you had a 150lb vaulter and then a 200 lb vaulter, there is a fair chance for that 200 pounder to break the pole. So in essence, technology has given the smaller and bigger guys a level playing ground of sorts. The skill level is pretty much a good indicator of the results as you don't see too many unathletic bums getting 15 ft. In addition, even with better pole technology ( ) and better breakdown of technique, the world record hasn't been touched since former Soviet vaulter Sergei Bubka retired back in the mid 90's. Still no one has come within four inches of him, and he is the only person to ever vault 15 feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Another final, another gold medal, another world record. Ho-hum. That makes 10 golds, breaking the record he previously shared with Mark Spitz, Carl Lewis, Soviet gymnast Larissa Latynina, and Finnish runner Paavo Nurmi. As a result, the NBC announcers called him "the greatest Olympic champion of all time." Anyone care to disagree? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Another final, another gold medal, another world record. Ho-hum. That makes 10 golds, breaking the record he previously shared with Mark Spitz, Carl Lewis, Soviet gymnast Larissa Latynina, and Finnish runner Paavo Nurmi. As a result, the NBC announcers called him "the greatest Olympic champion of all time." Anyone care to disagree? No he's not. He's only popular because this is going on now and it's recent in our minds. The only true Olympic Champions are the Miracle on Ice team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justnzane Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 No he's not. He's only popular because this is going on now and it's recent in our minds. The only true Olympic Champions are the Miracle on Ice team. thats some stojan, I thought the 92 Dream Team were the only true champs, as they crushed 3rd world countries with ease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Another final, another gold medal, another world record. Ho-hum. That makes 10 11 golds, breaking the record he previously shared with Mark Spitz, Carl Lewis, Soviet gymnast Larissa Latynina, and Finnish runner Paavo Nurmi. 4x200 relay team just absolutely destroyed the WR. First time anyone has finished under seven minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveRalph Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 No he's not. He's only popular because this is going on now and it's recent in our minds. The only true Olympic Champions are the Miracle on Ice team. Phelps is by far the greatest Olympian. Truly incredible athlete. He's racing against his own world records, not the other competitors. The relay that you showed enough restrain to claim was "the greatest Olympic event ever" just 11 seconds after it finished is already slipping into afterthought (other than another gold around Phelps' neck). I understand it took on extra importance because of Phelps' quest. I realize the Frenchie talked smack. I watched the event, and was pumped up that the US won. It was exciting, and one of the few races that the US team wasn't supposed to win by 2 seconds. I never for a moment considered it the greatest Olympic event ever, but wasn't surprised when NBC and ESPN and many here made it into "Miracle on Ice" drama. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Poojer Posted August 13, 2008 Share Posted August 13, 2008 Spitz was talking to a group of us 2.5 weeks ago and he told a funny story about the stache.....everyone, including himself thought the stache would be shaved prior to the olympics. a russian contingency asked him about it and he made up something like the stache helped deflect water and therefore made him faster...he was completely kidding...then he realized people were focusing more on his stache and less on his swimming, so it kind of became a distraction to his competition and as a result he kept the stache for the games....the next year at some major event he said all the russians were sporting staches because of his statement of water deflection Yep...minus the pornstache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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