PFW on Peters holdout

[BuffaloBob]

Parker has been a top, top agent since 1995 or before. He doesn't need street cred, he attained it a decade ago. He had Deion Sanders and Emmitt Smith and Rod Woodson and a host of stars.

I said to 'elevate' his street cred, not to get some at all. This business is all about "what have you done for somebody lately."

[VOR]

Probably after he loses a year of NFL service, missing the Aug 8 deadline, unfortunately.

After August 8th he'll lose an accrued season, but since he already has 4 accrued seasons and is under contract for 3 more years, it's a moot point for him. For Steven Jackson however, it isn't, though only if he doesn't come to terms on a new deal and the Rams franchise him next year and the NFL has no salary cap in 2010. If Peters held out past the 10th week of the season, he'd lose a credited season and still be under contract with the Bills for 3 more years.

 

I think in Jackson's case, he'll report. In Peters' case, there is no urgency.

[Kelly the Dog]

Well, obviously being stupid and gullible is not mutually exclusive of being complicit.

 

 

 

In the statement above, you basically absolve the agent of any influence on the outcome, because it is always the client who is in charge. You then concede that maybe an agent could intimidate the client into following the agent's advice, but it is still the fault of and the responsibility of the client for being stupid enough to let that happen.

 

What about manipulation? Is it really so hard to believe that an agent who is good at negotiating could also convince a client that a stratagy is the best, even though it may only be so for the agent and not for the client. And does that make the client stupid and therefore ultimately responsible?

 

Of course this is part of a strategy. But who's strategy? Peters? Sure, his agent no doubt laid this whole plan out for him. And Peters no doubt ulitmately agreed to it. But beyond that, you don't know how much of this was sold to him by a guy who is trying to get his own big payday and is looking to make him look like a hero to his next generation of clients.

 

I have represented 100s of clients, and while a few of them are very knowledgeable and therefore question everything and are very active in the decision making process, the vast majority of them are clueless and are easily convinced of what is the right way to go and how to go about it. If I were not the person I am, I could have taken great advantage of that trust to advance my own interests over theirs, and not always to their complete detriment either.

 

I think Peters has been sold a bill of goods and I think it will be a while before that becomes completely clear to him.

I was talking in very generic terms. And probably didn't do a good job of explaining what I meant.

 

And you're absolutely right that it is easy for agents to manipulate players, and I'm sure it happens. Your explanation was a lot better than mine.

 

There is nothing, however, known to us that would lead me to believe he has been sold a bag of goods. It may be true, but I don't think it's fair to just assume that. The simplle fact is, he probably thinks he deserves more money and deserves it now, when everyone everywhere is telling him he is right up there with the very best in the league, at an enormously important position. He doesn't at all need his agent manipulating him for that. This one hold out, where he hasn't missed a game yet, could mean a LOT of money to him. I just again, think it is part of a strategy. And that Peters hasn't really hurt himself all that much, and in fact, has helped himself in the long run.

 

I do think he will be back and have plenty of time to be ready for the season but that is just my opinion and remains to be seen.

[Kelly the Dog]

I said to 'elevate' his street cred, not to get some at all. This business is all about "what have you done for somebody lately."

He has been getting huge contracts all along. He got Larry Fitzgerald 60 mil for 6 years in 2004. He got Walter Jones huge contract. He just got Hester a new deal for a KR. He has Richard Seymour, Hines Ward, Ray Lewis, Laverneous Coles, Steven Jackson (who will sign a huge deal soon). He has five first rounders this year, which is tied with one other for the most of any single agent. He's got about 40-50 clients right now and is one of the top 2-3 agents in all of football along with Tom Condon and Drew Rosenhaus.

[Lurker]

He has been getting huge contracts all along. He got Larry Fitzgerald 60 mil for 6 years in 2004. He got Walter Jones huge contract. He just got Hester a new deal for a KR. He has Richard Seymour, Hines Ward, Ray Lewis, Laverneous Coles, Steven Jackson (who will sign a huge deal soon). He has five first rounders this year, which is tied with one other for the most of any single agent. He's got about 40-50 clients right now and is one of the top 2-3 agents in all of football along with Tom Condon and Drew Rosenhaus.

I agree with you KFBD. Parker knows exactly what leverage he has and is working the system perfectly, both from his clients' perspective and his own. Nothing of value has been lost yet by either side, and no Rubicons have been crossed. Just a whole lot of hand wringing and wasted electrons.

 

This will get resolved, as these things always do, and will be be old news in a matter of days, IMO.

[Mickey]

So in other words, it's all about just business and money, it's nothing about injuries, it's nothing about Peters being a jerk, it's all about his agent insisting he be paid now and the Bills insisting he should be paid later even though it's clear he deserves more, and all about that Peters will be starting at LT sometime soon.

 

What a shocker.

"Blame the agent." How new, how original.

[Mickey]

He has been getting huge contracts all along. He got Larry Fitzgerald 60 mil for 6 years in 2004. He got Walter Jones huge contract. He just got Hester a new deal for a KR. He has Richard Seymour, Hines Ward, Ray Lewis, Laverneous Coles, Steven Jackson (who will sign a huge deal soon). He has five first rounders this year, which is tied with one other for the most of any single agent. He's got about 40-50 clients right now and is one of the top 2-3 agents in all of football along with Tom Condon and Drew Rosenhaus.

Despite that track record, Peters should fire him and instead listen to the brilliant advice falling like pennies from heaven here at the wall. After all, the narrative is that agents are evil. How dare you suggest otherwise?

[Mickey]

I agree with you KFBD. Parker knows exactly what leverage he has and is working the system perfectly, both from his clients' perspective and his own. Nothing of value has been lost yet by either side, and no Rubicons have been crossed. Just a whole lot of hand wringing and wasted electrons.

 

This will get resolved, as these things always do, and will be be old news in a matter of days, IMO.

The same yo-yo's complaining about Parker were all up and down the lousy job Lynch's attorney did. You know, the guy who got Lynch off with a virtual parking ticket and not so much as a tsk-tsk from the league. What an idiot he was.

[IDBillzFan]

The same yo-yo's complaining about Parker were all up and down the lousy job Lynch's attorney did. You know, the guy who got Lynch off with a virtual parking ticket and not so much as a tsk-tsk from the league. What an idiot he was.

Damn, Mickey. You sound a little bitter. But, hey...I completely see how re-negotiating yet another multi-million dollar contract and avoiding prison (and suspension from the league) are like two peas in a pod. That's the perfect comparison.

 

Really.

 

I'm not kidding.

 

Perfect.

[Pyrite Gal]

I said to 'elevate' his street cred, not to get some at all. This business is all about "what have you done for somebody lately."

BuffBob over the years I have very much enjoyed and learned some things from some of your posts on contract issues. However, in this case KFBD's take on this situation strikes me as being far more consistent with the reality of situations than your's does that it may pay for you to read his stuff a bit more carefully and give it some thought.

 

The comments this thread evokes for me are:

 

1. Your comments certainly have an air of certainty and firmness about them while KF talks about things as applying in a generic way, and this actually is part of the strength of his analysis and where your cut comes off as a bit incredible.

 

The main good argument I have seen for better regulation of agents is that their performance, advice, and approach varies so much. Overlay the significant differences between individual agents over the individual differences and situations of the players and it adds up to any claim of their being ONE particular way that agents act and operate then the claim is simply going to be wrong in a lot of case.

 

The main thing that comes off as not very believable out the perspectives you have is that you seem to be saying that there is some rule or specific style or method that virtually all agents have and there simply is too much variation for that claim to be credible. KF's declarations come off with a lot more credibility because built into them seems to be uncertainty as to though things maybe being true generically they simply may not apply in a particular case.

 

2. The free market is not perfect, but the free market is pretty good for creating checks and balances on agents.

 

An agent who dupes his clients and gives them bad advice is simply not gonna be a rich agent. The thing which speaks most forcefully about Parker not pulling some Svenagli act of Peters and giving him bad advice is that if this was his normal means of operation he would not likely last long as an agent as word would probably spread among players that Parker was manipulative or even worse was not making his clients money. Even if Peters, Jackson and folks were too embarassed out hiring an idiot that they chose not to badmouth him, Parker would still suffer in that as the rookies shop for agents there would be fewer satisfied pros out there saying how good they were if Parker were routinely an idiot.

 

On other effect of the marketplace is that if an agent like Parker makes a big mistake on a case like Peters, Parker's competitors in the world of agents would be happy to spread the story of his poor representation around. Quite frankly the market makes the generic rule for the high dollar agent to simply not be that radically bad.

 

Perhaps, Peters is the one case where Parker is blowing it, possible but if so then the better post on this is not a broad side against how horrible agents are but a guesstimate of why in this case he is doing things so badly.

 

3. There is one agent but there really are dozens of people involved with providing services and developing strategy for Peters.

 

The movie Jerry MaGuire did a disservice to the agent racket in that in the effort to focus as much as possible on Tom Cruise as much as possible and the necessity of his having a love interest, they were only allowed to have other actors written only to add depth to these two characters (actually really only to Tom since though Renee has a purpose you rarely see her do anything but moon over Tom). Thus, they conveniently pretend that the agency has one client and that all the huge logistics needed for an agency to do even a passable job of providing service to the client can actually be done by Renee on the phones.

 

From travel agent stuff, contract number crunchers, additional legal help to review every line of the contract, to the hot and cold running masseuses many athletes require. an agent really is mostly the co-ordinator of a team that is there for the client. It takes a village in real life and that means theories about there being some psychotic Svengali who is puppetmastering and besides that doing it badly is not very credible.

 

Kelly's view simply seems more nuanced and thus more believable.

[BuffaloBob]

I agree with you KFBD. Parker knows exactly what leverage he has and is working the system perfectly, both from his clients' perspective and his own. Nothing of value has been lost yet by either side, and no Rubicons have been crossed. Just a whole lot of hand wringing and wasted electrons.

 

This will get resolved, as these things always do, and will be be old news in a matter of days, IMO.

Yeah, but the problem is, he has virtually no leverage! The Bills are not going to cave in on this one. And Parker has nothing to force them to do so, except a very good left tackle sitting around on his ass not accruing any credit toward his contract, not adding to his first and only Pro Bowl, and not earning any money. This is not a team that is one left tackle away from the SuperBowl, and therefore will feel compelled to do this so that they can make that big run. If this team makes the playoffs, expectations will have been met.

 

The Bills will not cave, and he will eventually have to show up anyway. And frankly, I fail to see how that somehow provides any overall benefit to the cause for future negotiations. It won't make things any more urgent for the Bills, because he'll STILL have two years left. And if he wants to pull the, I'll never sign a long-term deal with the Bills because you didn't cave crap, then three years from now they can just franchise his ass every year like the Seahawks did with Walter Jones.

 

Playing the system perfectly? I doubt it.

[d_wag]

i just hope the bills follow through with the fines and do not waive them when he reports......he deserves to come out of this situation losing money, not making any more of it

[Bleed Bills Blue]

Yeah, but the problem is, he has virtually no leverage! The Bills are not going to cave in on this one.

 

Very interesting and thought-provoking discussion. Great points on all sides.

 

I think the above statement bottom lines things exactly right. Eugene Parker might do well to remember that the man on the other end of the rope is Ralph Wilson, a stubborn pit bull when he gets his hackles up (do 90-year old men still have hackles?). Russ Brandon may be the public face on this matter, but I have no doubt that Ralph is the real force behind the scenes; his fingerprints are all over this. And I'm sure he's set this current course because, in the long run, he's holding good cards and he believes caving would hurt his team more than even Peters sitting out the whole season.

 

No, you don't put your feet up on Mr. Wilson's desk, and I have to wonder if Parker has underestimated the old guy to some extent.

[Mickey]

Damn, Mickey. You sound a little bitter. But, hey...I completely see how re-negotiating yet another multi-million dollar contract and avoiding prison (and suspension from the league) are like two peas in a pod. That's the perfect comparison.

 

Really.

 

I'm not kidding.

 

Perfect.

Two pros with a track record of success getting raked over the coals by amateurs. Yeah, nothing similar here.

[Mickey]

Very interesting and thought-provoking discussion. Great points on all sides.

 

I think the above statement bottom lines things exactly right. Eugene Parker might do well to remember that the man on the other end of the rope is Ralph Wilson, a stubborn pit bull when he gets his hackles up (do 90-year old men still have hackles?). Russ Brandon may be the public face on this matter, but I have no doubt that Ralph is the real force behind the scenes; his fingerprints are all over this. And I'm sure he's set this current course because, in the long run, he's holding good cards and he believes caving would hurt his team more than even Peters sitting out the whole season.

 

No, you don't put your feet up on Mr. Wilson's desk, and I have to wonder if Parker has underestimated the old guy to some extent.

He has leverage, it may not be enough but he definitely has some. We are not going to let a pro bowl LT go to waste, not when, at the very least, we could trade him for some good picks. If we aren't going to pay him so we can play him, we should trade him.

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

He has leverage, it may not be enough but he definitely has some. We are not going to let a pro bowl LT go to waste, not when, at the very least, we could trade him for some good picks. If we aren't going to pay him so we can play him, we should trade him.

 

The Bills are NOT going to trade Jason Peters. They know it would be a disastrous idea. They'll let him rot on the sidelines first.

[Bleed Bills Blue]

If we aren't going to pay him so we can play him, we should trade him.

 

It does seem like the Bills are genuinely willing to start discussions right away (once he reports), and are willing to pay him what he's worth...just not this year. And rightly so, I believe. In this respect I think they have the greater leverage and willpower/stubbornness. Peters will be back sooner or later. But what will he have gained?

 

Well, he will have tested the waters, and, for him, nothing ventured is nothing potentially gained. He's also made the FO face what life would be like without him, which could enhance the offer they make him. That would indicate Peters & Co. has already accepted the inevitability of a deal next year. Or maybe he's just intent on forcing a trade, thinking the Bills will never pay what he could get from certain other teams.

 

I don't think the Bills will trade him, not soon anyway. I think the test of wills goes on a bit longer.

[ricojes]

My theory on this whole situation is that the Bills want to talk to Peters without Parker. I think the Bills would tell JP that he is a very important part of this team and they want him around for a long time, unfortunately due to trying to extend Evans and Crowell, he would have to wait until next season to renegotiate. Then see what JP thinks about that and go from there. But Parker doesn't want any part of that. He wants his client to get a raise now and doesn't care about anything else. Parker will absolutely not, under any circumstance, let JP talk to the Bills directly. Because I really think JP is a team player and would trust that he would get his money the following year. Dockery stated he had talked to JP a couple times, probably against Parkers wishes, and JP is itching to get back and can't wait to join his teammates. Best case scenario....fire Parker! GO BILLS!!!!

[apuszczalowski]

It does seem like the Bills are genuinely willing to start discussions right away (once he reports), and are willing to pay him what he's worth...just not this year. And rightly so, I believe. In this respect I think they have the greater leverage and willpower/stubbornness. Peters will be back sooner or later. But what will he have gained?

 

Well, he will have tested the waters, and, for him, nothing ventured is nothing potentially gained. He's also made the FO face what life would be like without him, which could enhance the offer they make him. That would indicate Peters & Co. has already accepted the inevitability of a deal next year. Or maybe he's just intent on forcing a trade, thinking the Bills will never pay what he could get from certain other teams.

 

I don't think the Bills will trade him, not soon anyway. I think the test of wills goes on a bit longer.

I don't think they ever actually said they wouldn't do it this year

 

Of course the bills would love to keep paying him what they are paying him now, who wouldn't want to get someone like him at such a deal. But they said they want him to honor his contract which can be viewed at in different ways. It could mean they want him to play a couple more years before they are willing to re-do the deal, or it could mean that they want him to report to camp before they start talking. Since he is under contract to them, and part of his contract is that he reports to camp, by sitting out, he is not honoring his contract. And they have said that they are willing to talk/negotiate if/when he reports to camp, but not if he doesn't report, which makes it less likely they wont negotiate a new deal til next year.

 

They are not going to trade him unless he decides to continue sitting out during the season, and he will have to demand a trade out of Buffalo. Likely a "I'm not reporting til I get a new deal so if you won't talk now, I want out"

 

They will keep playing russian roulette with the situation until one side has all the leverage. Right now the Bills have the most because of how much he still has left on his deal, and because they have said publically they will discuss contracts if/when he reports. It will get interesting, and you may see some more leverage slip either way after this weekend and with every game/practice played. If Walker fills in adequatly this weekend and is not a liability at LT, Peters will lose a little more leverage. If Chambers doesn't become a liability at RT, Peters leverage goes down even more. If they both stay healthy and make it through the preseason without injuries, peters leverage will go down even further. Peters and his agent may play chicken for a few more weeks in hopes that Walker or Chambers get hurt or stink up the field, cause right now, thats the only way they gain leverage against the Bills in this situation, if the Bills become desperate after seeing what they have without him

[Pyrite Gal]

Yeah, but the problem is, he has virtually no leverage! The Bills are not going to cave in on this one. And Parker has nothing to force them to do so, except a very good left tackle sitting around on his ass not accruing any credit toward his contract, not adding to his first and only Pro Bowl, and not earning any money. This is not a team that is one left tackle away from the SuperBowl, and therefore will feel compelled to do this so that they can make that big run. If this team makes the playoffs, expectations will have been met.

 

The Bills will not cave, and he will eventually have to show up anyway. And frankly, I fail to see how that somehow provides any overall benefit to the cause for future negotiations. It won't make things any more urgent for the Bills, because he'll STILL have two years left. And if he wants to pull the, I'll never sign a long-term deal with the Bills because you didn't cave crap, then three years from now they can just franchise his ass every year like the Seahawks did with Walter Jones.

 

Playing the system perfectly? I doubt it.

The part that strikes me as Parker/Peters playing the system consistently and as well as they can given the poor leverage situation they are in is the non-communication part of their actions.

 

You are correct in your reading of the leverage situation IMHO, so the quest for Peters and his agent if they want to achieve the goal of the huge contract he would have gotten in a free market is simply to wait and take advantage of the situation IF the leverage changes.

 

They correctly are keeping silent and not communicating with the press or officially with the team because there is absolutely nothing they can say that will change the leverage and win a new huge contract. In fact, there is a pretty clear history of athletes or their agents shooting their mouths off in these situations and doing themselves greater harm for the future by pissing off their future partners on the team once they kiss and make-up or their potential customers in the fan base when the millionaire athlete begins talking about taking food from his fat kids mouth.

 

Folks who are lamenting the current non-communication should answer the simple question of what is it that Peters/Parker are supposed to say that is gonna suddenly allow them to reach their goal of getting the biggest contract ever given by the Bills.

 

Instead, what Peters and his agent he has directed should do is wait as long as they can contractually wait. If in that time Walker or/and Chambers gets any injury that slows them down or/and if they get eaten alive in practices or a game then reality changes.

 

Particularly, if the Bills suffer the unfortunate luck no one hopes for (including Peters quite frankly as this involves a teammate getting injured) of Walker/Chambers going down in a game, the press drumbeat of just show him the money will rise quickly to a level where Ralph will have the choice of caving or cutting off his nose to spite his face.

 

The smart thing for Peters/Parker to do is simply to just wait and shut up.