KOKBILLS Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Holy Dead Horses, it's the Kaped Krusader!!!!!! Exactly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Di Cesare is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 First, I never said they should cut him a new deal now and I don't think they should. I don't know where that comes from. Your 4) is what I am saying. Don't insult the Bills by saying they would sign him if he wasn't healthy. They may agree to a deal during negotiation, but they are not going to sign him until they inspect the goods. If he wasn't healthy, the agent wouldn't be holding him out like this right now. That's really the only issue. The explanation above was confusing perhaps, because if one believes he is injured, you would also have to believe the Bills wouldn't know before they actually put pen to paper. I am saying he is very likely 100% (or surely will be before games are played) because if he wasn't, there is no way the agent would be negotiating like this. What if the Bills called his bluff? That is the scenario I described above. It sounds foolish because it is. Of course the Bills will know he's 100% before they sign him or they simply won't sign the deal. It doesn't matter at all whether he is healthy now or not. They're not going to do it so it's foolish to surmise that is a possible reason. OK, I see your point a bit more clearly now - the Bills certainly aren't going to offer a deal unless they know he's healthy. The part where we should assume he's healthy because his agent wouldn't be holding him out if he wasn't healthy is still a bit circular to me, but hell, no one really knows WTF is going on - if anything - in these 'negotiations'. I think we can all agree, as Bills fans, that Peters' behavior is 'disappointing'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 OK, I see your point a bit more clearly now - the Bills certainly aren't going to offer a deal unless they know he's healthy. The part where we should assume he's healthy because his agent wouldn't be holding him out if he wasn't healthy is still a bit circular to me, but hell, no one really knows WTF is going on - if anything - in these 'negotiations'. I think we can all agree, as Bills fans, that Peters' behavior is 'disappointing'. If you're "disappointed" by this "behavior," then you haven't been watching much NFL lately. Peters is a top-5 LT. Top-5 players of ANY position act like this when their contract is worth less than their performance should dictate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1 Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Huh???? (Can someone else please read that paragraph for me and tell me if it makes any coherent sense at all? Is it me?) You're making me more confused by the moment - are you or aren't you saying the Bills should know that he's 100% healthy before signing him? All I can garner from your post is that 1) Peter's is 100% healthy, because... 2) The Bills would never sign him to a great big new contract if he wasn't 100% healthy, therefore... 3) They should cut him a new deal now, before putting him through any physical evaluations at all, because... 4) Peters is 100% healthy, and don't insult the Bills by saying they'd sign him if he wasn't. Doesn't that seem like a circular argument? Just a little? .. You nailed KTD. What he he doesn't understand about logical fallacies could fill a book. Number one logic crime....stating his conclusions in his premises. His 'arguments' almost always turn out to be tautologies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Di Cesare is right. And so are you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Senator Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 If you're "disappointed" by this "behavior," then you haven't been watching much NFL lately. Peters is a top-5 LT. Top-5 players of ANY position act like this when their contract is worth less than their performance should dictate. Guess I'm old school, then. I remember Bird and McHale playing for much less than guys coming out of college that had yet to touch a ball in the NBA, and they didn't whine, didn't hold out either. Peters signed a contract. Was real happy at the time to get the big raise. It's his job to play to the best of his ability - he doesn't get to whine about the money now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Interesting take. I must say however that I can't understand your reluctance in giving him the money now, especially when you also state that you are pretty sure that he is healthy. Is it because of the possibility of other players wanting new deals? Evans already does. I don't know if Ralph will cough up the cash he will need to in order to sign him. Honestly, I am not even sure how much I think he is worth, although I do want them to keep him if possible. I don't have the details, but Dallas just gave a safety a ton of money, and I've never heard of the guy. Whitner, if he has a great season, is going to want a lot more cash whether Peters gets a new deal or not. Watch and see. Good players, let alone top LTs are going to want more money. You and I spend a lot of money being fans. Imo it is time for Ralph to spend his money in order to give us a playoff team. Kyle Williams is not a star. Jason Peters is. You've never heard of Ken Hamlin? He's a good young safety, and had a breakout year last season. He was solid the couple of years prior, but last year he broke out. (He's also a much better safety than Roy Williams). Hamlin also made the pro-bowl last season. He signed for big bucks because Dallas had brought him in on a 1 year deal and then franchise tagged him. They worked out a long term deal with him then over the summer. And the reason evans wants a new deal is because he's a UFA after this season, so we need to re-sign him. I also believe Peters deserves and shouild and will get his money. However, i am with Kelly the Dog and believe that Peters can wait until next february to get his huge payday. He doesn't need it today. He'll still show up for the season, and he'll still re-sign with the team. Take care of evans now, and then worry about peters during and/or after the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 You've never heard of Ken Hamlin? He's a good young safety, and had a breakout year last season. My biggest memory of him was when he got into the incident outside of a club and was in critical condition as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 My biggest memory of him was when he got into the incident outside of a club and was in critical condition as I recall. Yup, and he's been playing very well since he recovered from that incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Parker says this guy is a top 2-3 LT, he needs to be paid like one now. I want 6 years, 60 million. They are 20 million off. Parker says, "Then there is nothing to talk about. He's the best now, he needs to be paid now." Hey Kelly... I may be guilty of being one your idjits. All I freakin want to know is if there is an article that quotes JP or Parker saying they want more money. Right now, aside from what you quote above is the only meat we've got. I'd like to know where you found those quotes, or simlilar. I've searched for articles on it and, honestly, I haven't found one word about it from either of them. Everything I find is it's all speculation. Of course it doesn't mean it ain't so. Decesare's peice doesn't give me anything we didn't already know. If you're gonna don the 'fair and balanced' badge it would fair to pitch me a link to the trooth so that I can sleep well tonight. Man... if you've got the quotes... please, hook me up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Hey Kelly... I may be guilty of being one your idjits. All I freakin want to know is if there is an article that quotes JP or Parker saying they want more money. Right now, aside from what you quote above is the only meat we've got. I'd like to know where you found those quotes, or simlilar. I've searched for articles on it and, honestly, I haven't found one word about it from either of them. Everything I find is it's all speculation. Of course it doesn't mean it ain't so. Decesare's peice doesn't give me anything we didn't already know. If you're gonna don the 'fair and balanced' badge it would fair to pitch me a link to the trooth so that I can sleep well tonight. Man... if you've got the quotes... please, hook me up. I don't think KTD is quoting anyone; he's saying this is a hypothetical conversation that likely occurred in the past and explains why the Bills have been saying publicly there is no (recent) communication from Peters or his agent. They had a convo before, they're real far off and there's been no communication since, because both sides have dug in their heels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 Hey Kelly... I may be guilty of being one your idjits. All I freakin want to know is if there is an article that quotes JP or Parker saying they want more money. Right now, aside from what you quote above is the only meat we've got. I'd like to know where you found those quotes, or simlilar. I've searched for articles on it and, honestly, I haven't found one word about it from either of them. Everything I find is it's all speculation. Of course it doesn't mean it ain't so. Decesare's peice doesn't give me anything we didn't already know. If you're gonna don the 'fair and balanced' badge it would fair to pitch me a link to the trooth so that I can sleep well tonight. Man... if you've got the quotes... please, hook me up. Logic? Common sense? Putting myself in other people's shoes for a moment? There is no other reason but there MUST be some reason? Insinuation from Chris Brown and every single writer that he is sitting out for more money? The fact that Parker had at least two other clients that were holding out for more money and Parker has a solid history of it? I was just using those numbers as examples, but I would imagine they are close. I don't know for sure. The top LTs in the game are getting 10-11 a year now. The Bills just paid a huge amount, 7 million a year for Dockery, so I would imagine they would pay more for Peters, but they probably arent going to pay him 10 million this year otherwise he would be in camp. The thing I think is foolish is people answering that question with "how does he know what they're offering until he shows up!" That's just really naive IMO. The agent knows. I work with agents. They don't do things for no reason. The good ones, and Parker is a very good one regardless of the fact he may be a dick and be wrong here, spend all their time knowing everything to know about their business, and who makes what, and who says what about their players, and other players. When a guy makes a Pro Bowl in his first full season at a position, and virtually every single thing you read about him says "he's one of the best LTs" in the game, or he may already be the best, combined with the fact he has great size, natural athletic ability and is very young and getting better, what does that tell you? If he wasn't asking for top 3 money he probably would be fired now. These guys are not dumb. They are not sitting around just ignoring teams that want to pay them what they feel they are worth. Sure I don't know exactly how much they are asking for but I would bet anything it started right at or near the very top, which is now 11 million a year. The better question is, why wouldn't they ask for that? The guy is a young, athletic, huge, mauling stud at one of the 2-3 most important and highest paid positions in the league, playing right nextx to a guy he is better than who is making 4 million a year more. That is a lot of money to these guys. The most important item in DeCesare's column is what he said about respect. The way a large majority of pro athletes measure themselves is not by championships, or stats, it's by money. The more money they are paid means the more their team respects them, and values them versus other players. It's a huge deal for pro athletes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ricojes Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 The most important item in DeCesare's column is what he said about respect. The way a large majority of pro athletes measure themselves is not by championships, or stats, it's by money. The more money they are paid means the more their team respects them, and values them versus other players. It's a huge deal for pro athletes. Sadly, that's probably true. Even if they are not worth the money, the players respect the fact that they were able to get more than they're worth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 I wish someone would explain how it is remotely possible that Parker is holding his client out, without talking to the Bills, telling them what he wants, and knowing their stance. I don't think you need someone to officially report on that. I think you simply have to believe in the concept of gravity and have two feet on the planet. But that's just me. :wallbash: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Trooth Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 The most important item in DeCesare's column is what he said about respect. The way a large majority of pro athletes measure themselves is not by championships, or stats, it's by money. The more money they are paid means the more their team respects them, and values them versus other players. It's a huge deal for pro athletes. OK Kelly, I agree, Peters deserves respect and perhaps more money. But... as you mentioned you're relying on your experience and speculation like everyone else that this is simply a contract issue. But the only facts that we know are... * Peters signed a 5 yr contract 2 yrs. ago * Peters made the Pro Bowl * Peters didn't play in the PB had sports hernia surgery around that time. * Peters did not show up for voluntary OTAs * Peters did not show up for a mandatory minicamp * Peters did not show up for training camp * Peters has not responded to some sort of contact made by the front office That's all that we know... the rest is imagination and speculation. So, from my perch, Peters hasn't exactly shown good judgement or behavior here. He has a contract, he's injured until he demonstrates otherwise. For whatever reason he does not want to stop by OBD to demonstrate that. Well... I ain't buying a car that's just been in an accident until I'm assured the frame is intact. But, if the seller won't let me check out the car, ther's really no basis for discusion.... and I ain't gonna buy. Since he hasn't been seen around OBD... how do know he ain't 500 lbs., how do we know he ain't gone "Anthony Spellman", and how do we know he ain't got something to hide? Based on the facts as I know them right now, I'm in Ralph's corner if I have to take sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Actually, the pariah should be Jerry Sullivan, who has no insight in the sports world at all. Then again, he wasn't hired for his insight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 Most "idjits" here are going by what has been reported. We have been waiting for the inside scoop from those in the know, such as yourself. So Parker has had talks with the Bills and stated what they are looking for. The Bills in return want JP in camp before negotiating. We all have an idea that this is what is happening, but this is the first time it has been reported "officially". So thanks for the inside scoop. Now that we know the details, you can end your crusade krazykat. I just want to thank you for that icon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 I have no beef with DiCesare, but I certainly wouldn't give him any credit for this insight. He's merely repeating what Dr. Z posted two days ago (and with more insight) on the SI site. Fine then, Dr. Z is another Dead "Media" Man Walking then too. And I actually appreciate that insight because I give him no credit. The man's usually an utter buffoon with what he writes. I was wondering how he came up with this. I will say that it's interesting reading the responses here. Seems as if the more cogent and tempered ones are on Peters' side. The others appear to be most little tantrums. What I don't understand is how quickly the posters that offer the least substance band together to determine what the group/gang/mob opinion is. What gets me is that it rarely falls on the side of the better players. Those players all need to tuck their tails and suck it up for the team, while others that are overpaid as backups, role players, and extremely marginal starters and that get paid barely below what the really good players get on a year to year basis after their contracts are evaluated, are championed as great signings all built around "their youth" or something else that has no direct value in and of itself. Message board dynamics are definitely interesting if nothing else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krazykat Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 most influential player??? what are you smokin?? the guy is a mental midget !! if he or his agent had a ounce of brain matter they would have realized he would be the highest paid tackle in the game next year by playing good this year!! now he hasjepardizing that for a bump this year.. peters and his agent"eugene the loser parker" put new meaning to some words........................................................... YOU CANT FIX STUPID!!! Case in point! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts