Peters, The NFL, and holdouts

[Bill from NYC]

I think that holdouts in the NFL are to be expected for the following reasons....

 

1) The Salary Cap:

 

Unlike MLB, there is a hard cap in the NFL. Even in a case such as the redskins, Snyder is somewhat limited as to what he is allowed to spend. I like this system because without it, it would appear that the Bills would have little chance of success. Players must fight harder to get paid in a limited pool. This does NOT apply to Peters, whereas Ralph is flush with both cap space and cash.

 

2) The Pension System:

 

As a trade unionist, one of my complaints about the movement is that retirees are sometimes neglected. I am personally lucky in this sense, many are not. This often happens because union presidents want to be re-elected, and retirees can't vote. Upshaw seems to have followed this trend. Career ending injuries are common, as are injuries that can hamper the entire lives of NFL players. There pensions are small as compared to MLB, and their medical benefits have come under serious scrutiny.

This DOES apply to Peters. It creates a "time is now" mentality in terms of getting paid.

 

3) Non-Guaranteed Contracts:

 

This is another system that works most of the time for the Bills. I think that without this rule, there could be no cap. We would probably still be paying Mike Williams, and other players who were just not good enough, and this would worsen the product that is NFL Football.

If Peters gets hurt, and/or his play suffers, he will not get his big (top 5 LT) payday. Peters and Parker look at this, and feel no guilt for breaking a contract. I am able to see their point, because under this system, contracts are only truly binding to the player. The owners like this system, but this is an obvious glitch in the plan.

 

Looking back in terms of the Bills, was Bruce Smith wrong for wanting more money than John Fina? It may be a poor example in some ways, but can one really blame him?

Peters is a better player than Dockery, and makes considerably less money. As I said before, Dockery called Peters "The Franchise" on Sirius. This is to say nothing about Fowler, who is also paid more than Peters.

 

As the Bills improve, we will see more of this. Although many here think it is impossible, what do you think will happen if Trent throws for 3300 yards, with 22 TDs and 11 picks? Will he play for 5 or 6 hundred thousand? No, he will want to be paid as an elite qb. Watch Lynch if he has a great year. Whitner? He is already a publicity machine. If he makes the pro bowl, look out!

In summary, the game has changed. We didn't get hit with this in a while because most of our players were not stars, let alone a star LT. They need to schedule a negotiating session and get this done, so we fans can perhaps even see the Bills in a playoff game.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[ROCCEO]

Whitner is already paid extremely well.

 

I agree with you completely about Edwards though.

 

How would you react if Edwards did that, and then we wouldn't re-up his deal and instead traded him and re-signed JP on the cheap? (note: Im not a numbskull, I know this actually would never happen)

[Kelly the Dog]

You can't look at it this way, Bill. Almost every player in the league thinks they are better than everyone else at their position, or could be if the cards fell right. You want every player on your team with this supreme ego and confidence because they wouldn't be in the NFL without it. Marcus Stroud is probably already better than anyone on our defensive line. Do you want his sitting out because Schobel and Kelsay make more than him and Kyle Williams and Ryan Denney make almost as much? Every time someone signs a nice contract every player that believes they are better than him wants to renegotiate their contract?

 

Sure, they all want as much as they can get. Some players just get screwed because of the year they signed their deal. Just as many are way overpaid for their production. Some have to take what they can get or move on. Some gamble other teams will pay them more and lose. It's just the way the system works and it's surely far from perfect (especially the top 5-10 rookies) but it is the best overall and not a lot of good ways to make it better, IMO. Teams aren't obligated to keep or pay the players, the players only have one option to try to get more - sit out.

 

One thing I do think is a misconception of fans, however, is that most pro athletes, if you listen to them talk, don't begrudge other players sitting out or getting ridiculous contracts even when those same players think they are better and deserve more than that guy. Most of the players in the league think everyone else should get as much as they can. They may USE the fact that Player A is making more than me and I deserve more, but they don't blame or begrudge Player A himself for getting that deal. The more players at their position get paid around the league the more they make, in general. And these guys are pretty much mercenaries. They know they all have to make as much as they can while they can and they are all in the same boat.

[ieatcrayonz]

what do you think will happen if Trent throws for 3300 yards, with 22 TDs and 11 picks?

 

 

What if the sky turns chartreuse? What is Kermit the frog is my uncle? What if real men start wearing gloves?

[Bill from NYC]

You can't look at it this way, Bill. Almost every player in the league thinks they are better than everyone else at their position, or could be if the cards fell right. You want every player on your team with this supreme ego and confidence because they wouldn't be in the NFL without it. Marcus Stroud is probably already better than anyone on our defensive line. Do you want his sitting out because Schobel and Kelsay make more than him and Kyle Williams and Ryan Denney make almost as much? Every time someone signs a nice contract every player that believes they are better than him wants to renegotiate their contract?

 

Sure, they all want as much as they can get. Some players just get screwed because of the year they signed their deal. Just as many are way overpaid for their production. Some have to take what they can get or move on. Some gamble other teams will pay them more and lose. It's just the way the system works and it's surely far from perfect (especially the top 5-10 rookies) but it is the best overall and not a lot of good ways to make it better, IMO. Teams aren't obligated to keep or pay the players, the players only have one option to try to get more - sit out.

 

One thing I do think is a misconception of fans, however, is that most pro athletes, if you listen to them talk, don't begrudge other players sitting out or getting ridiculous contracts even when those same players think they are better and deserve more than that guy. Most of the players in the league think everyone else should get as much as they can. They may USE the fact that Player A is making more than me and I deserve more, but they don't blame or begrudge Player A himself for getting that deal. The more players at their position get paid around the league the more they make, in general. And these guys are pretty much mercenaries. They know they all have to make as much as they can while they can and they are all in the same boat.

 

I agree with every word of the above.

 

Also, I think that fans place too much blame on agents. Peters might not be a Rhodes Scholar, but he knows exactly what he is doing.

[UConn James]

As the Bills improve, we will see more of this. Although many here think it is impossible, what do you think will happen if Trent throws for 3300 yards, with 22 TDs and 11 picks? Will he play for 5 or 6 hundred thousand? No, he will want to be paid as an elite qb. Watch Lynch if he has a great year. Whitner? He is already a publicity machine. If he makes the pro bowl, look out!

In summary, the game has changed. We didn't get hit with this in a while because most of our players were not stars, let alone a star LT. They need to schedule a negotiating session and get this done, so we fans can perhaps even see the Bills in a playoff game.

 

This is an important point about our young starters. We've got maybe a three-year window to make a playoff push with the nucleus we have now, and then it will be a crucible to see which of them we get to keep under 'cash to the cap' unless new ownership comes in with a different tack. Ralph seems intent to ride out this wave that Marv helped generate.

 

Of course, it will be worlds different three years from now. We'll have three drafts (hopefully spent on players who'll fill the holes the FO anticipates/coordinates). Some of the higher-priced UFA mercenaries will surely have moved on (Mitchell, Fowler, possibly even Dockery & Walker if we ever draft an OL-man again (the ghost of Mike Williams haunts this franchise --- but it goes back much farther than that, doesn't it?). Whatever LE's deal is compounds with whatever Edwards and Lynch will command. Indy manages to do it, tho, so let's just hope that some other method of dealing with the cap is in place by then (I think some playoff appearances might justify a change), whether Ralph stops squeezing the nickel 'til the Buffalo sh--s or if it's a new owner.

 

You can't look at it this way, Bill. Almost every player in the league thinks they are better than everyone else at their position, or could be if the cards fell right. You want every player on your team with this supreme ego and confidence because they wouldn't be in the NFL without it. Marcus Stroud is probably already better than anyone on our defensive line. Do you want his sitting out because Schobel and Kelsay make more than him and Kyle Williams and Ryan Denney make almost as much? Every time someone signs a nice contract every player that believes they are better than him wants to renegotiate their contract?

 

Sure, they all want as much as they can get. Some players just get screwed because of the year they signed their deal. Just as many are way overpaid for their production. Some have to take what they can get or move on. Some gamble other teams will pay them more and lose. It's just the way the system works and it's surely far from perfect (especially the top 5-10 rookies) but it is the best overall and not a lot of good ways to make it better, IMO. Teams aren't obligated to keep or pay the players, the players only have one option to try to get more - sit out.

 

One thing I do think is a misconception of fans, however, is that most pro athletes, if you listen to them talk, don't begrudge other players sitting out or getting ridiculous contracts even when those same players think they are better and deserve more than that guy. Most of the players in the league think everyone else should get as much as they can. They may USE the fact that Player A is making more than me and I deserve more, but they don't blame or begrudge Player A himself for getting that deal. The more players at their position get paid around the league the more they make, in general. And these guys are pretty much mercenaries. They know they all have to make as much as they can while they can and they are all in the same boat.

 

To be more accurate with that metaphor, each player is in different boats, grouped in separate pools according to their position. They're not bothered when other guys get fat contracts b/c that 'rising tide raises everyone's boat' in that pool. Most players & agents realize the timing factors that they could get more in two years, but now is now. I also think most will accept that guys signed via UFA make the big $ --- that's just how it is and they have to wait their turn. But there's always a special situation, or an anxious player or agent who feel enough inequity that they take drastic measures. But make no mistake, this is not off the cuff --- they have orchestrated every move they take.

 

I don't know what mindset JP took in this push for a new deal, but it all ends with, he wants more bones and the Bills want more bones to be able to give to their other guys from a league- and self-limited stash. Right now it's a game of chicken; if it remains this way come late this month, then it becomes a problem.

[Matt in KC]

Bill, you mention the Salary Cap as one of the causes of hold-outs, but don't specifically mention the constant increases to the salary cap. I think this is a big driver of the sense of inequity belief that big contracts are there to be had. Every year we hear about deals that are jaw-dropping and were unthinkable just a couple years earlier.

 

If Peters doesn't change his stance in the next few weeks, I think his holdout is more than just softening the ground for a big contract next year. The only way this makes sense to me is if Peters really plans to sit the year out (which of course is the usual bluff of a hold out). He might think the Bills will release or trade him before next year and the contract he'll get will be bigger than the Bills would ever give him this year. Personally, I think this is probably true.

[BillsVet]

Indianapolis remains one of the lowest revenue teams in the league. They've built a new stadium, but it's hard to ignore the core of players they have locked up long term in Manning, Freeney, Wayne, Sanders, and D. Clark.

 

If the Bills are intent on riding this out until next season, it makes me wonder. They have the cap space, and if they think Peters' value will decrease, they're plain wrong. If anything, he performed at a high level for 15 games at a position he'd played for about a half season before 2007. His trajectory is only up, and his pay demands will increase with it.

 

All in all, a front office is there to pick which players to keep, and which to let go. Their success or failure rate is what keeps some teams successful beyond the standard 2-3 year "window." It's why IND, NE, JAC, SD, and others are always in the playoffs, while some teams never are. I trust the Bills, Peters, and most fans realize the franchise doesn't go as far without him.

[Dan]

...

 

Looking back in terms of the Bills, was Bruce Smith wrong for wanting more money than John Fina? It may be a poor example in some ways, but can one really blame him?

Peters is a better player than Dockery, and makes considerably less money. As I said before, Dockery called Peters "The Franchise" on Sirius. This is to say nothing about Fowler, who is also paid more than Peters.

 

As the Bills improve, we will see more of this. Although many here think it is impossible, what do you think will happen if Trent throws for 3300 yards, with 22 TDs and 11 picks? Will he play for 5 or 6 hundred thousand? No, he will want to be paid as an elite qb. Watch Lynch if he has a great year. Whitner? He is already a publicity machine. If he makes the pro bowl, look out!

In summary, the game has changed. We didn't get hit with this in a while because most of our players were not stars, let alone a star LT. They need to schedule a negotiating session and get this done, so we fans can perhaps even see the Bills in a playoff game.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm sure this was not your intent, but several posters have mentioned Bruce Smith and his penchant for not attending camp. Can we all just agree to stop that? Peters is in no way whatsoever in Bruce Smith's class. Period. There is no comparison to Peters and Smith. One is a once in a lifetime, HOF player. The other is someone that might be if he decided to play a few years.

 

The next paragraph relates exactly to a point I've tried to call attention to on a few occasions. The Bills are primed to have several young stars emerge. How they handle Peters will likely dictate how others approach contract renegotiations. Imagine if they cave to Peters and immediately give him top 5 money. Regardless of whether he's worth it or not; you've shown every young player on this team that thinks they deserve a raise that they should hold out.

 

Yes Peters deserves a raise. Yes, he's the best player on the line. Yes, we need him to be a legitimate playoff team. However, you can't let a player dictate to the team. Once you open that door, you allow all the other players to walk through it. My suspicion is the Bills FO knows that and they're making an example out of Peters. If so... it's risky, to say the least.

[eball]

I'm sure this was not your intent, but several posters have mentioned Bruce Smith and his penchant for not attending camp. Can we all just agree to stop that? Peters is in no way whatsoever in Bruce Smith's class. Period. There is no comparison to Peters and Smith. One is a once in a lifetime, HOF player. The other is someone that might be if he decided to play a few years.

 

The next paragraph relates exactly to a point I've tried to call attention to on a few occasions. The Bills are primed to have several young stars emerge. How they handle Peters will likely dictate how others approach contract renegotiations. Imagine if they cave to Peters and immediately give him top 5 money. Regardless of whether he's worth it or not; you've shown every young player on this team that thinks they deserve a raise that they should hold out.

 

Yes Peters deserves a raise. Yes, he's the best player on the line. Yes, we need him to be a legitimate playoff team. However, you can't let a player dictate to the team. Once you open that door, you allow all the other players to walk through it. My suspicion is the Bills FO knows that and they're making an example out of Peters. If so... it's risky, to say the least.

Great post. I don't necessarily agree the Bills are "making an example" of Peters, but I do believe they're trying to send the message that when you sign a 5-year contract, acting like a spoiled child after two years isn't going to get you very far.

[The Senator]

I think that holdouts in the NFL are to be expected for the following reasons....

 

1) The Salary Cap:

 

Unlike MLB, there is a hard cap in the NFL. Even in a case such as the redskins, Snyder is somewhat limited as to what he is allowed to spend. I like this system because without it, it would appear that the Bills would have little chance of success. Players must fight harder to get paid in a limited pool. This does NOT apply to Peters, whereas Ralph is flush with both cap space and cash.

 

2) The Pension System:

 

As a trade unionist, one of my complaints about the movement is that retirees are sometimes neglected. I am personally lucky in this sense, many are not. This often happens because union presidents want to be re-elected, and retirees can't vote. Upshaw seems to have followed this trend. Career ending injuries are common, as are injuries that can hamper the entire lives of NFL players. There pensions are small as compared to MLB, and their medical benefits have come under serious scrutiny.

This DOES apply to Peters. It creates a "time is now" mentality in terms of getting paid.

 

3) Non-Guaranteed Contracts:

 

This is another system that works most of the time for the Bills. I think that without this rule, there could be no cap. We would probably still be paying Mike Williams, and other players who were just not good enough, and this would worsen the product that is NFL Football.

If Peters gets hurt, and/or his play suffers, he will not get his big (top 5 LT) payday. Peters and Parker look at this, and feel no guilt for breaking a contract. I am able to see their point, because under this system, contracts are only truly binding to the player. The owners like this system, but this is an obvious glitch in the plan.

 

Some players are selfish douchebags whose word is meaningless and feel they don't need to honor their contract if they can get more $$$$

Fixed.

 

Have you ever walked off the job to protest your salary, left a fellow officer 'in the lurch' because you were pissed about your pay, or demanded a better contract before your current one expired?

[Lofton80]

I think Peters has some leverage. He will get paid if not now sometime in 2008. The Bills need him. I am sure Brandon and Jauron want to get past the 6-10;7-9 seasons and go to the next level. They don't want to groom a young QB who is running for his life. Hopefully, this is a Walter Jones type deal where he eventually comes in before they go live.