Chilly Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 After reading the article I can't get over the feeling that the Bills really should have drafted an offensive lineman like Brandon Albert, Ryan Clady or Chris Williams with their first round pick. I love Greer as our starting CB opposite McGee, and have this nagging feeling that McKelvin was a luxury pick on a team that really needed to try and give Marshawn a top unit in front of him. They also didn't need another return guy which is McKelvin's other specialty. I think this might have been a missed opportunity to help our team build towards a dominant offensive line. I'm still not sold on McGee as a #1 myself. I like both McGee and Greer, they're solid players, but neither one is a true #1 CB imo, they both can get picked on at times and need to improve run support. If McKelvin can turn into that guy, McGee as a #2 and Greer as a #3 would constitute an excellent backfield. I really don't get the criticism of Chris Kelsay. He is a very solid DE and I expect him to have a great year with 6-8 sacks. Kelsay is an average defensive end. He's a coaches best friend in the sense that he's a smart player and stays in position well, but he doesn't have a ton of strength. Personally, I think the acquisition of Marcus Stroud probably helps Kelsay the most this year. Before, Kelsay was the 2nd best pass rusher on the line and commanded some de facto attention, but now Stroud will obviously change that (and hopefully McCargo as well). Hopefully, the acquisition of Stroud will free up Kelsay to be one-on-one with some weaker linemen, allowing him to get a better pass-rush than he has been. If that happens, I can see Kelsay having 6 sacks or so this year - the best of his career.
Pyrite Gal Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 I really don't get the criticism of Chris Kelsay. He is a very solid DE and I expect him to have a great year with 6-8 sacks. A lot of the criticism comes from Bruce Smith having set such a high standard for excellence at LDE that most folks woulf disagree with you and not call 6-8 sacks as being what a solid DE should produce. While some of this is because BS set such a high standard for performance (folks should not forget he was not merely solid but simply was one of the best ever producing double digit sack totals consistently, demanding at least a double if not a triple team some days, and was solid against the run even while being a monster against the pass), I do agree that Kelsay needs to produce more than 6-8 sacks to be truly worthy of being called solid. The simple fact is that in his highest sack output season he produced only 5.5 so even your prediction of 6-8 would be new for him. Despite his being average at best as a sack artist, he is in fact solid against the run but really not extraordinary as a run stopping talent. In the face of all of this, he was rewarded with a contract extension which seems to outpace his production. Expectation are for him to at least play at a level approaching his salary and he has not done this. Add to this, the method which Kelsay seems to get his relatively small sack totals is because he is what seems to be typical of today's Bills, a DE with a constant motor who gets his sacks by working and working but has not demonstrated the devastating first move which forces the opponent to double team him from the get-go. Kelsay should have a good statistical year this year as OL blocking will need to slide toward behemoth Stroud and Pro Bowler (another good motor guy who has developed a better first move and used his athleticism to generate more strength at the POA when he is engaged). However, Kelsay has really shown little (in the face of reasonable increased expectations after his new deal his tackle total went down and his sack numbers (over-emphasized as a measure but still critical for an LDE plummeted to a mere 2.5). Really his level of production would be judged good for a journeyman picked up on the waiver wire, but is not solid and arguably not good for a player who commands the cap room he does. It is good news to hear of Kelsay owning the back-up Chambers because he should. Perhaps this is a sign that he had in fact developed a good set of first moves and will log a number approaching double digit sacks (8-10) which IMHO would earn him the accolade of being solid. This assumes he remains solid against the run though quite frankly for an LDE if he logs 12+ sacks I would not feel bad at all about him sacrificing some of his run effectiveness because sack output at this level would make for a huge challenge for an OC deciding how to attack this DL.
Chilly Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Despite his being average at best as a sack artist, he is in fact solid against the run but really not extraordinary as a run stopping talent. I'm not sure "average" is an acceptable word for him, given the meager 2.5 sack output of last season. Unfortunately, I don't have the game tapes to go back and check, but I'm curious as to how much of Kelsay's lack of output was due to him being the #2 guy and his lack of strength, rather than necessarily not having a first move (from what I've seen, he's ok off of the line, but doesn't know what to do when blocked).
Mike32282 Posted July 31, 2008 Author Posted July 31, 2008 Kelsay is never going to be a great DE, but he's a good DE and very solid. I look for him to break his old sack record and get 8-10 sacks for the season. Stroud is going to make the whole line better and I'm already noticing a difference.
Mickey Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Always love reading these reports--excellent work! As for Kelsay, sounds more like he's doing a great job as opposed to Chambers or Walker sucking. I expect Kelsay and Schoebel to have monster years with Stroud on that line. It's not that much different than the Titans and Haynesworth. When Haynesworth was on the field last year, the Titans two average DE's, Vanden Bosch and LaBoy, looked like all-pros. When hayensworth went down, those DE's largely disappeared. Half full, half empty I guess. Given Kelsay's numbers last year, I am more inclined to conclude that Chambers stinks rather than that Chris is an all-pro. It'd be nice though.
berndogg Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Good recap! I'm happy to hear that Stroud is looking like a beast. He's got some very high expectations, and coming off an injury I was a little nervous about him. If we can stop the run for the first time since '04 nothing would make me happier and it would do wonders for our young secondary. I'm sick and tired of teams pounding the ball down our throat in the 4th quarter.
Matt in KC Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 I personally think Kelsay has played better than his numbers suggest. In passing situations the last two years, the Bills would often line up Denny next to Kelsay for the pass rush. In many (half?) of these cases it looks like Kelsay has responsibility for containment to his side as Denny rushes the QB on the inside. Two of the Bills defensive highlights last season came from Kelsay, getting his hands up and deflecting Romo's pass for an INT / TD, then on a nearly identical play a few weeks later (Dolphins? Jets?) having the opposing QB decide not to throw the ball and take the sack/safety.
PastaJoe Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 I always expected Kelsey to be a new version of Phil Hansen.
Mike32282 Posted July 31, 2008 Author Posted July 31, 2008 I always expected Kelsey to be a new version of Phil Hansen. I did too. I really think that if Marcus Stroud comes in and helps draw the double teams, it will make both Schobel and Kelsay a lot better and give them more chances to get to the QB.
nemhoff Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 Mike, Top notch as always. Your updates are one of the things I most look forward to on this board this time of year. love the extra points section of your updates! Thanks for the work that you put in.
Mike32282 Posted July 31, 2008 Author Posted July 31, 2008 Mike, Top notch as always. Your updates are one of the things I most look forward to on this board this time of year. love the extra points section of your updates! Thanks for the work that you put in. Thank you for your kind words. I used to just do the play by play. But added the Extra points a couple years ago and everyone enjoyed it, so I keep doing it.
Fixxxer Posted July 31, 2008 Posted July 31, 2008 After reading the article I can't get over the feeling that the Bills really should have drafted an offensive lineman like Brandon Albert, Ryan Clady or Chris Williams with their first round pick. I love Greer as our starting CB opposite McGee, and have this nagging feeling that McKelvin was a luxury pick on a team that really needed to try and give Marshawn a top unit in front of him. They also didn't need another return guy which is McKelvin's other specialty. I think this might have been a missed opportunity to help our team build towards a dominant offensive line. I wanted us to draft Albert instead of McKelvin even though we had all the starting positions covered in the OL but with poor depth after that, plus I thought Greer and McGee were good enough to start again this year. Well, maybe next year we will draft OL with the first round.
krazykat Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Kelsay is never going to be a great DE, but he's a good DE and very solid. I look for him to break his old sack record and get 8-10 sacks for the season. Stroud is going to make the whole line better and I'm already noticing a difference. Against a Bills OL missing Peters. It's encouraging but there are lots of things yet to be determined.
Lori Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Thank you for your kind words. I used to just do the play by play. But added the Extra points a couple years ago and everyone enjoyed it, so I keep doing it. And you should. Let's face it -- lots of people can chart a game (or practice). But if you provide additional insight that people find interesting and/or useful, you're a step ahead.
Guest dog14787 Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Awesome reporting and great pictures Sounds like Trent Edwards is in mid season form, miles ahead of last year. I know its only traing camp, but don't ya just love it
Mike32282 Posted August 1, 2008 Author Posted August 1, 2008 And you should. Let's face it -- lots of people can chart a game (or practice). But if you provide additional insight that people find interesting and/or useful, you're a step ahead. That's a good point, Lori. I added the extra points so I can take specific items from my long report and highlight the players or plays that interested me the most.
Rubes Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 That's a good point, Lori. I added the extra points so I can take specific items from my long report and highlight the players or plays that interested me the most. I agree, it's great to have that in there, and definitely great to have those reports. Thanks!!
bladiebla Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 Thanks man, love reading these reports. Link didnt work for me but a visit to http://www.billszone.com did wonders for others who find the deep link isnt working for them. Nice to read some indepth info on how Hamdan is doing as well, man do I miss the Amsterdam Admirals and NFL Europe. Really hope the Bills get around to fixing their o-line, new offense playbook was much needed but will be pretty useless with a disfunctional o-line. Love to hear about how you'd rate Hamdan vs. JP and Trent (just pm it to prevent steering this thread way off course into a heated well you know...) Reason I'm asking is to see what chances he has making the team as 3rd QB (i.e. will the Bills go with 3 QB on the roster or just 2, if Hamdan performs near Trent/JP like then I could see the coaches going with 3 QBs on the roster, however if Baker is (out)performing Hamdan I see us going with just Trent/JP on the roster and Baker on PS (Hamdan isnt PS elligible anymore). A cut would most likely mean an end to Hamdan's career, sadly. From the OTA reports and TC reports thus far Hamdan sounds like the def. #3 QB atm, with little to no competition from Baker, but you have seen them which tells a lot more then just text.
Beerball Posted August 1, 2008 Posted August 1, 2008 blah blah blah Mike is awesome blah blah blah great report Mike blah blah blah Glad you haven't forgotten to set yer damn alarm clock this year ya young wippersnapper! Really appreciate your efforts!!!
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