Here's what I don't understand

[Billadelphia]

My argument is, if you actually think for one second, do you really believe one of the top agents in the game knows his client is hurt and is going to risk his (the agent's) entire career by hiding that injury, which is 100% certain to eventually come out? If he was hurt he would be in camp and watching from the sidelines and Peters and Parker would know they will have to wait until next year. No agent is going to do that. They would be banned from the league. We're not talking about an extension for a few million, we're talking about $60-100 million dollars.

 

But my point is that Peters, his agent, and the Bills dont know if he will even make it past training camp. He may be fine to jog, lift weights, etc, but when it comes to digging his feet in and exerting all his force on opposing lineman, there could be severe pain that would hamper his ability to play like he did the past few years.

[BuffaloBob]

Paying $100,000 in fines compared to becoming the highest paid lineman in the league is chump change. Besides, he will probably convince the Bills to rescind the fines. People are acting here like this guy is a total schlub and he doesn't know what they teach you in high school about negotiating, when he is amongst the very best in the league. And he usually ultimately gets his way and his clients the cash. He may be miscalculating here, but I very much doubt it. He knows what he is doing, and Jason Peters at some point will be amongst the top paid OL in the league, served very well by his agent. We might not like it but it's embarrassing IMO for fans to say this guy is stupid.

I think Parker is grossly miscalculating here, unless this is meant only to be a shot across the bow. If the Bills were just a player or two away from a serious run at the Superbowl (after say, having been close the past two years but falling just short), he might have some leverage in getting this thing done now. But the Bills are no more than an up-and-comer this year, at best a Cinderella Story getting a game or two into the playoffs. Expectations for this team will be mostly met with a playoff appearance.

 

The reality is, he has much less leverage than he he needs to get this team to roll over for a big payday this season. The guy has had a single Pro Bowl appearance and has three years left on a contract the Bills didn't even have to give him and he didn't have to sign. A team that is not considered a front-runner for a SuperBowl birth does not have the kind of pressure on them to cave to these kinds of demands that one with the highest of expectations has.

 

While the Bills are not flush with OTs who can play at Peters' level, I think Walker can do a more than adequate job. If need be, they may be able to pick up a competent vet that gets cut before the season starts for some added depth. Is this an ideal solution for the Bills? Not even close. BUT, I think the team will survive better than Peters and his career will.

 

If Peters does not show up in the next week or two at the most, I think he is getting extremely bad advice from Parker. Peters has money, his career, and the opportunity to earn future money on the line. The Bills may lose a few games that might have otherwise won had they had Jason in there. If Peters is so worried that he might injure himself, he should invest some of that $3.5 Million he will make this year into an insurance policy for one year that will pay him $30 Million if he has a career ending injury.

[Chandler#81]

I think Parker is grossly miscalculating here, unless this is meant only to be a shot across the bow. If the Bills were just a player or two away from a serious run at the Superbowl (after say, having been close the past two years but falling just short), he might have some leverage in getting this thing done now. But the Bills are no more than an up-and-comer this year, at best a Cinderella Story getting a game or two into the playoffs. Expectations for this team will be mostly met with a playoff appearance.

 

The reality is, he has much less leverage than he he needs to get this team to roll over for a big payday this season. The guy has had a single Pro Bowl appearance and has three years left on a contract the Bills didn't even have to give him and he didn't have to sign. A team that is not considered a front-runner for a SuperBowl birth does not have the kind of pressure on them to cave to these kinds of demands that one with the highest of expectations has.

 

While the Bills are not flush with OTs who can play at Peters' level, I think Walker can do a more than adequate job. If need be, they may be able to pick up a competent vet that gets cut before the season starts for some added depth. Is this an ideal solution for the Bills? Not even close. BUT, I think the team will survive better than Peters and his career will.

 

If Peters does not show up in the next week or two at the most, I think he is getting extremely bad advice from Parker. Peters has money, his career, and the opportunity to earn future money on the line. The Bills may lose a few games that might have otherwise won had they had Jason in there. If Peters is so worried that he might injure himself, he should invest some of that $3.5 Million he will make this year into an insurance policy for one year that will pay him $30 Million if he has a career ending injury.

 

 

Well said!

 

I'm in favor of more Bob, less Kat!

[AKC]

the Bills are no more than an up-and-comer this year, at best a Cinderella Story getting a game or two into the playoffs.

 

Exactly. This roster is a nice Bill of Goods we're being sold that gets some people excited. The likelihood is that if all things necessary aligned (and that is a substantial bag of wishes right there) and we were in position for some postseason action, that would come not as a result of having assembled a great team or coaching staff but by virtue of enjoying one of the easier schedules in the league in some time. Our reality is that we have virtually no chance of matching up against playoff quality rosters and that paints any 2008-9 postseason as a "short" run. We're two quality players from being competitive with the top of the league right now and there's virtually no chance both of those players will somehow land in our lap before the season begins. No matter the level of optimism Training Camp brings, we're not a team that will be honestly challenging for at least another off-season, and probably two.

[GG]

Paying $100,000 in fines compared to becoming the highest paid lineman in the league is chump change. Besides, he will probably convince the Bills to rescind the fines. People are acting here like this guy is a total schlub and he doesn't know what they teach you in high school about negotiating, when he is amongst the very best in the league. And he usually ultimately gets his way and his clients the cash. He may be miscalculating here, but I very much doubt it. He knows what he is doing, and Jason Peters at some point will be amongst the top paid OL in the league, served very well by his agent. We might not like it but it's embarrassing IMO for fans to say this guy is stupid.

 

If you believe that Peters will continue to get better, then he should have more leverage next year after his 2nd Pro-Bowl year and one less year to go on the contract. But, this ploy smacks of a hail mary by Parker, because he knows Bills have leverage. He needs to get paid now because of the lockout threat for next year which will make it that much more difficult to get an extension. If he sits out the season, he would loose 2 yrs of salary (including the lockout).

 

From Bills' standpoint, knowing they're not SuperBowl bound, they can wait this one out.

 

Since we're on the subject, how well did the agent serve Darwin Walker's career with the absence game vs Bills'

[Kelly the Dog]

If you believe that Peters will continue to get better, then he should have more leverage next year after his 2nd Pro-Bowl year and one less year to go on the contract. But, this ploy smacks of a hail mary by Parker, because he knows Bills have leverage. He needs to get paid now because of the lockout threat for next year which will make it that much more difficult to get an extension. If he sits out the season, he would loose 2 yrs of salary (including the lockout).

 

From Bills' standpoint, knowing they're not SuperBowl bound, they can wait this one out.

 

Since we're on the subject, how well did the agent serve Darwin Walker's career with the absence game vs Bills'

I totally agree. As I said before, I think this is both a Hail Mary and a leverage ploy by Parker. I doubt he believes one bit that the Hail Mary will work but he may as well try it as well as convince his client that it's at least possible the Bills will cave. But the leverage for next year is exactly what he is doing. I think Peters will be in camp soon. He and Parker will say we will speak with the Bills but Peters is all business and wants to play for his teammates. The Bills will tell Parker behind closed doors that they will give him 40 million or so when Parker is asking for 60 million or more. And they will say, look, if he gets to the Pro Bowl we have every intention of paying him. So next pre-season, they will go through this whole charade again.

 

BUT...

 

If Peters came in to camp already this year without a fight, the Bills would say he has to be in camp before we will re-negotiate, like they are doing now. Without laying the groundwork this year, Parker and Peters have far less leverage. By telling the Bills, look, we came in last year and you said you would reward us but you didn't, this year it's not going to be so easy and he will sit the whole thing out, they are negotiating from a far stronger position. The Bills will have a much tougher time calling their bluff. Especially after he has now had two straight Pro Bowl years.

 

That's what I think this whole thing is about: next year.

[The Senator]

Since we're on the subject, how well did the agent serve Darwin Walker's career with the absence game vs Bills'

Ah yes, Darwin Walker, the billionaire dirt engineering king that so many insisted we sign to a $$$multi-billion$$$ long-term extension, cut by the Bears after one season, now signed to a one-year deal by the Panthers. Senile ol' Marv was really outsmarted by Walker and agent Al Irby, wasn't he?

[krazykat]

I have two thoughts on this post:

 

1. I think Peters, since he signed his last contract, has a new agent: Eugene Parker. I may be wrong on this, but I am pretty sure that agents only get paid for contracts they negotiate (whether it be yearly, based on pay or a one-time shot upon signing, I don't know). Therefore Peters' last agent made the 15% to 20% commision on his 2005 contract and Parker has made nothing. Could it be that Parker is playing hardball because he hasn't made any money on this client yet?

 

2. One of the most important things to do is to extend current players. To say that Kyle Williams, Chris Kelsey, Brad Butler, etc are over paid is misleading. The cap is no longer in the $80 million range! Witht he cap currently being about $116 million, the average roster player salary is over $2 million per. I understand that players, based on seniority or ability, do not get that much, but it does put the salaries in perspective. Wheather you like it or not, starting defensive ends get $6 million per year. Starting guards get about $3 million per. It seems like they tried to do this year with the offensive line what they did last year on the defensive line. They signed Kelsey to a big, new contract and Schobel was underpaid. They probably went to Schobel (a usual non-participant in offseason activities) and said, "Here's what Chris got. You are underpaid and we will give you a riase to bring you in line with other DEs in the league and on the team, but you have to show up to offseason activities to get the ball rolling. If you remember he actually showed up for a few weeks last offseason and got his contract in Training Camp. This year they extended Butler and were probably set to say, "Jason, you need a raise too, please show up and you can have it." To this point, it seems Peters nor his agent never said they weren't coming until they didn;t show up. Therefore, no new contract. It makes sense. They set this precedent last year.

Sorry I didn't get to this sooner BJ, I had business to attend to.

 

on 1, I suppose it's possible, but I don't think it's a huge factor. The more likely factor is that Peters is the best OL-man on this team yet the third highest paid, and when you consider all 9 linemen on both sides, no higher than 6th highest paid behind Walker, Dockery, Schobel, Kelsay, and Stroud, and probably close to Butler, Williams, and Johnson, two of which are likely backups. That to me is all that anyone should need to know in a game where contracts typically play out to the level of talent.

 

On 2, "overpaid" is somewhat subjective. Where it gets less subjective is comparing how good other players that get the same amount of money are although there's an enormous amount of subjectivity there as well. As to Schobel and his agent came to the team. The team knew (common sense although I'm not sure anyone thought that through) that Schobel would need a new contract making him higher paid than the mediocre Kelsay.

 

Otherwise, Schobel was at the end of his prime and had little leverage. The team also wasn't nearly on as thin ice as it is this year. They could withstand, and did, yet another losing season. That cannot happen this year. As to Butler, I have no idea what you're talking about. He started one season, one of the worst in Bills history for the offense. Pick your poison as to why it sucked, but clearly the line had a good chunk to do with it. Now, you probably want us all to believe that Walker's good, Dockery too, and we all know that Peters is good, and clearly you think that Butler was worth the $9M in new money that we gave him, but at some point we must assume that everyone along the line isn't quite as good as we think or we wouldn't have been dead last or second to last in most relevant categories last year offensively.

 

Regardless, Peters has proven a lot more than Butler has and unlike Schobel is entering his prime, not exiting it.

 

And yeah, it could very well "probably be" many things, but Peters also didn't show up for OTAs if I'm not mistaken and the writing's been on the wall that he may not have shown up for a good number of days prior to camp even opening, so the team had warning.

 

And I'm not defending Peters per se, but I am suggesting that all of this aside, Peters definitely deserves a damn site more than G Butler and DTs Johnson and Williams, and even G Dockery and RT Walker. As to Stroud, we can debate since Stroud has a much more vivid history of impact performance.

 

I'm also suggesting that apart from Stroud, we could miss anyone of those other players with a relatively seemless transition when to think the same about Peters isn't so.

 

Either way, you talk about Peters and Parker not reaching out, but I don't see much from the team either.

[krazykat]

I totally agree. As I said before, I think this is both a Hail Mary and a leverage ploy by Parker. I doubt he believes one bit that the Hail Mary will work but he may as well try it as well as convince his client that it's at least possible the Bills will cave. But the leverage for next year is exactly what he is doing. I think Peters will be in camp soon. He and Parker will say we will speak with the Bills but Peters is all business and wants to play for his teammates. The Bills will tell Parker behind closed doors that they will give him 40 million or so when Parker is asking for 60 million or more. And they will say, look, if he gets to the Pro Bowl we have every intention of paying him. So next pre-season, they will go through this whole charade again.

 

BUT...

 

If Peters came in to camp already this year without a fight, the Bills would say he has to be in camp before we will re-negotiate, like they are doing now. Without laying the groundwork this year, Parker and Peters have far less leverage. By telling the Bills, look, we came in last year and you said you would reward us but you didn't, this year it's not going to be so easy and he will sit the whole thing out, they are negotiating from a far stronger position. The Bills will have a much tougher time calling their bluff. Especially after he has now had two straight Pro Bowl years.

 

That's what I think this whole thing is about: next year.

The Bills have said absolutely nothing guaranteeing that they would rework Peters' deal if he comes to camp. All they've done is say that they'll talk. That could mean anything and for players and agents here, I wouldn't trust this organization sad to say. They're not trustworthy. I know that's going to go over like a pig roast in a mosque, but it's the truth.

 

Peters is protecting himself, and in this business and given the circumstances, I don't blame him.

 

But again, in the big picture Jauron, Schonert, Wilson, Brandon, and the team have much more to lose than Peters does. Every single one of them is toying with their careers here except Wilson who's in his 90s in a few months.

[Kelly the Dog]

Ah yes, Darwin Walker, the billionaire dirt engineering king that so many insisted we sign to a $$$multi-billion$$$ long-term extension, cut by the Bears after one season, now signed to a one-year deal by the Panthers. Senile ol' Marv was really outsmarted by Walker and agent Al Irby, wasn't he?

Walker likely signed the best contract that he could have, and got on the team that he preferred. Sucks for him that he not only played sucky but got hurt. If he stayed healthy and played well, he would have a fat contract right now. I don't think they misplayed that very much at all. He just didn't produce.

[The Senator]

Walker likely signed the best contract that he could have, and got on the team that he preferred. Sucks for him that he not only played sucky but got hurt. If he stayed healthy and played well, he would have a fat contract right now. I don't think they misplayed that very much at all. He just didn't produce.

Which is probably why Marv wanted to see how he played before giving him a big pay-day.

[BeastMode54]

But my point is that Peters, his agent, and the Bills dont know if he will even make it past training camp. He may be fine to jog, lift weights, etc, but when it comes to digging his feet in and exerting all his force on opposing lineman, there could be severe pain that would hamper his ability to play like he did the past few years.

 

I don't know why people keep wondering if he is healthy or not. True groin injuries take time to heal, but this injury happened months and months ago. Unless he wasn't taking care of it, there is no way he is hurt. A groin injury lasting for 8 months is pretty absurd

[GG]

I totally agree. As I said before, I think this is both a Hail Mary and a leverage ploy by Parker. I doubt he believes one bit that the Hail Mary will work but he may as well try it as well as convince his client that it's at least possible the Bills will cave. But the leverage for next year is exactly what he is doing. I think Peters will be in camp soon. He and Parker will say we will speak with the Bills but Peters is all business and wants to play for his teammates. The Bills will tell Parker behind closed doors that they will give him 40 million or so when Parker is asking for 60 million or more. And they will say, look, if he gets to the Pro Bowl we have every intention of paying him. So next pre-season, they will go through this whole charade again.

 

BUT...

 

If Peters came in to camp already this year without a fight, the Bills would say he has to be in camp before we will re-negotiate, like they are doing now. Without laying the groundwork this year, Parker and Peters have far less leverage. By telling the Bills, look, we came in last year and you said you would reward us but you didn't, this year it's not going to be so easy and he will sit the whole thing out, they are negotiating from a far stronger position. The Bills will have a much tougher time calling their bluff. Especially after he has now had two straight Pro Bowl years.

 

That's what I think this whole thing is about: next year.

 

Except that next year, Bills will absolutely draft a OL in the first round. And if Parker thinks his client means that much to the team, the draft pick will likely be very high. Parker picked the wrong owner to play chicken with.

 

It's also instructive to look at the list of Parker's clients to see how well they performed after sitting out and getting the big deals.

[Kelly the Dog]

Except that next year, Bills will absolutely draft a OL in the first round. And if Parker thinks his client means that much to the team, the draft pick will likely be very high. Parker picked the wrong owner to play chicken with.

 

It's also instructive to look at the list of Parker's clients to see how well they performed after sitting out and getting the big deals.

It depends. I don't think they are going to draft an OL at all in the first round unless they have no intention of paying Peters top dollar. And if they do, they won't pay Peters anything but make him play for his current deal. That would be totally stupid IMO, piss off the fans, the players and Peters. He would sit out all of pre-season, furious, and then show up right when the games started, pissed off. That would do no one any good.

 

It doesn't matter one bit to the player or agent how well other players played after hold-outs. 100% of them think they are studs and different and will play better than anyone in the league. That is for the fans and teams to argue about. The players and agents don't even consider that.

[Ramius]

Except that next year, Bills will absolutely draft a OL in the first round.

 

Careful GG, Bill is getting turned on.

[GG]

It depends. I don't think they are going to draft an OL at all in the first round unless they have no intention of paying Peters top dollar. And if they do, they won't pay Peters anything but make him play for his current deal. That would be totally stupid IMO, piss off the fans, the players and Peters. He would sit out all of pre-season, furious, and then show up right when the games started, pissed off. That would do no one any good.

 

It doesn't matter one bit to the player or agent how well other players played after hold-outs. 100% of them think they are studs and different and will play better than anyone in the league. That is for the fans and teams to argue about. The players and agents don't even consider that.

 

Bills' 2009 draft will surely depend on how the negotiation with Peters plays out. They would want certainty that there's no holdout by him next year. For that, they'll have to raise his contract.

 

If he doesn't agree to their demands and sits out, Bills draft an OL. If this is just a ploy by Parker and Peters comes into camp and plays '08 at the current contract, Bills will try to redo the deal in the early spring. If that doesn't happen, Bills draft an OL. Either way you look at it, bills have the upper hand in their negotiation. If Parker wants a market deal, he'll have to wait until 2009 and may be dealt to a crappy team. In the meantime, he's wasting any goodwill his client is earning with the team & the fans.

 

Imagine what will happen if Peters runs over a drunk Canadian girl at night.

[GG]

Walker likely signed the best contract that he could have, and got on the team that he preferred. Sucks for him that he not only played sucky but got hurt. If he stayed healthy and played well, he would have a fat contract right now. I don't think they misplayed that very much at all. He just didn't produce.

 

Oh, and how much of that do you think was because he missed a lot of training camp?

[Kelly the Dog]

Oh, and how much of that do you think was because he missed a lot of training camp?

Impossible to say. Could have been a lot, could have been mutually exclusive. The Bears were a clusterfukk across the board last year. Walker surely didn't help much, although they were much worse without him. He would have been better than Tim Anderson here though. And I'm pretty sure we could have signed him to the same contract he got from the Bears, then released him like they did in the off season and only paid $1 mil for last year.

[AJ1]

Bills' 2009 draft will surely depend on how the negotiation with Peters plays out. They would want certainty that there's no holdout by him next year. For that, they'll have to raise his contract.

 

If he doesn't agree to their demands and sits out, Bills draft an OL. If this is just a ploy by Parker and Peters comes into camp and plays '08 at the current contract, Bills will try to redo the deal in the early spring. If that doesn't happen, Bills draft an OL. Either way you look at it, bills have the upper hand in their negotiation. If Parker wants a market deal, he'll have to wait until 2009 and may be dealt to a crappy team. In the meantime, he's wasting any goodwill his client is earning with the team & the fans.

 

Imagine what will happen if Peters runs over a drunk Canadian girl at night.

 

Peters and his agent are playing the Bills' FO for fools but they will be the ones looking like fools when their dopey holdout ends. They will have riled up the fans (the ones with any common sense), missed all the season preparation, likely Peters reports out of shape, the Bills FO doesn't budge, and a ton of bad faith has been spread around. Could be a future case study on how to ruin a promising career.

[Kelly the Dog]

Peters and his agent are playing the Bills' FO for fools but they will be the ones looking like fools when their dopey holdout ends. They will have riled up the fans (the ones with any common sense), missed all the season preparation, likely Peters reports out of shape, the Bills FO doesn't budge, and a ton of bad faith has been spread around. Could be a future case study on how to ruin a promising career.

Yep.

 

Either that or he comes in in a week or two, dominates like he should and likely will, ends up in the Pro Bowl like he should and probably will, and pretty much forces the Bills to make him one of the top paid OL in the league next year.