Here's what I don't understand

[eball]

The Bills don't have a bad reputation concerning contract negotiation or extending players. I'm not just pulling that out of my ass -- I've read specific quotes from top agents like Rosenhaus that the Bills are professional and good to work with. They've let a few players walk after their contracts expired (Pat Williams, Nate Clements), but in terms of working with current players on the roster they've never (to my knowledge) taken a hard line position or been unreasonable. Recent draft picks certainly haven't expressed displeasure with the way things were handled.

 

Which begs the question -- what the hell is Eugene Parker doing?

 

I know there's already a long holdout thread going, but I really think this is a different question. Why would Parker think this is the right way to deal with the Bills?

[Chandler#81]

I'm holding out hope that once all Parkers' rookies are inked, he'll change his attention to those clients seeking new deals. At least he doesn't have a terrible rep as a rep and, as you say, he'll be dealing with a stand up operation.

 

I'll start bitchin' if Peters is still holding out after 2 weeks.

[krazykat]

The Bills don't have a bad reputation concerning contract negotiation or extending players. I'm not just pulling that out of my ass -- I've read specific quotes from top agents like Rosenhaus that the Bills are professional and good to work with. They've let a few players walk after their contracts expired (Pat Williams, Nate Clements), but in terms of working with current players on the roster they've never (to my knowledge) taken a hard line position or been unreasonable. Recent draft picks certainly haven't expressed displeasure with the way things were handled.

 

Which begs the question -- what the hell is Eugene Parker doing?

 

I know there's already a long holdout thread going, but I really think this is a different question. Why would Parker think this is the right way to deal with the Bills?

You first have to understand that there's never been a case like Peters, or at least not one that I can remember. He signed his last extension/renegotiation/restructure, whatever it was, before ever starting at LT. So whether you think he's right or wrong, you have to consider that.

 

This isn't just a typical case of superstar [insert name] drafted in round 2 not round one at a particular position then having become a top player at his position. Peters was a project that worked out, in spades!

 

He hardly played in '04 when he was signed as an undrafted free agent. He played RT in '05 but only began to start the second half of the season. Unless I'm mistaken, he signed his last deal after that season and with the team's loose plans to play him at LT the following season in '06, which he eventually did and excelled at it relatively speaking.

 

He and his agent have seen the kind of money we throw around at players that will eventually be only backup or rotational guys or marginal starters tops or for players that will contribute nothing and be cut two years after they get that money; guys like Butler, Spencer Johnson, Kyle Williams, Kelsay last year, Tripplett two years ago (seems like more) and when Peters was here to watch, Price, etc.

 

He and Parker watched the team hand Kelsay ~ $6/season in contract essentially forcing the team's hand in giving Schobel more even though he had just signed an extension/renegotiation/restructuring ~ a year before too.

 

So for anyone saying that he should play out his existing contract, why? Schobel didn't?

 

He and Parker are not stupid. They see what's happened and the retarded money we're throwing around at many players. Hell, our most expensive DT at the time Tripplett is already gone after a hero's welcome and the biggest contract that a DT of ours had seen until that time. Peerless Price took our front office to school and to the bank as well.

 

Peters plays a critical position, perhaps the most critical position on offense given our situation, and indisputably one of the top few key positions for any NFL team. Throw in the fact that every successful NFL team and eventual SB winner has a top LT, and Peters and his agent realize that this team is backed into a corner.

 

My perspective: You can't throw around the kind of money you're giving Kelsay, Williams, Johnson, Walker, and Dockery and expect a guy like Peters to be happy. There is precedent, at least with our team, that gives a player a "renewal" soon after having signed one. (Schobel off of Kelsay) Schobel's past his prime too, Peters is just entering his.

 

This is Brandon's first significant test as a GM. He's fighting a team habit of overpaying for talent (players already mentioned) while not taking care of the top players on the team. (Evans, Peters) His stamp will go on this team beginning now with how this ends up. I don't think it's a stretch to suggest that we're not going to improve much offensively without Peters playing. And granted, per rumors/suggestions, Peters may be entirely out of shape, not at full health, etc. We don't know. But this nonsense about "getting him in camp first" then renegotiating is just that, nonsense. Peters clearly doesn't believe that his show of good faith in that regard would be reciprocated. If that were what was holding this up, then this team would have something done with Evans now.

 

Parker has some other high profile clients and no doubt he's very comfortable with his position here. Either way, you have a team supposedly on the rise, paying all kinds of players that may never amount to anything for this team, then ignoring what is indisputably one of the three most critical elements to the 2008 success of the team.

 

We can argue whether or not that's smart, but it is what it is. The team's going to go a lot further with Peters than with Spencer Johnson and Kyle Williams if it's a one or the other thing, as merely one example.

 

Here's the rub, Peter's is not grossly undercompensated although he is undercompensated. But guys like Kelsay, Dockery, Walker, Johnson, Williams, maybe Mitchell, Butler, Josh Reed, and maybe a few others are overcompensated, mostly by a sizeable amount. Why? Poor management and our team having to overpay to lure talent. Again, Parker and Dockery see that.

 

Regardless, the Bills are now tinkering with seeing their season collapse over this. Anyone not thinking that Peters missing a bunch of games isn't going to impact the team's performance, win or lose, is naive. It doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong. What matters is that Peters is in camp, in shape, and ready to go in a month. This team is already questionable in terms of whether a rookie WR can change how horrible it was on offense last year. Any gains made by Hardy or Johnson will be quickly eradicated by Peters' absence.

 

But the Bills set the tone for this with their inconsistent yet predictable crappy signings. Anyone that was being honest knew that Tripplett sucked long before he got here. But the rah-rah types here won't see that. Ditto for Price, Fowler, Gandy, Kelsay (whom they've already paid for by having to give an aging Schobel more), and even Robert Royal who with a $10M contract may not even start this year according to team reports and who has already been demoted.

 

The Bills are far from guilt free in this and Brandon has his hands full with this. If he continues to play hardball and it costs the Bills this year that will set the tone for his tenure here and already present an uphill battle for him to remain on. If he plays into Peters/Parkers hands then he won't be doing anything differently that we've done in the past with Schobel as a precedent. Everyone here was good with Schobel's situation even though Schobel was already on his back-9 by that point, yet the sentiment is different for Peters, a player entering his prime and meaning more to this team than Schobel. That's what I can't understand.

 

Some of you are going to launch into the typical childish "he's not a Bills fan," but at times I seriously question whether most of you are Bills fans or front office, GM, or coach fans first.

 

As to what Parker's doing, he's had success with this route with some high profile clients. The party that's playing with fire on this though is Brandon specifically and the Bills generally. He and the team have a lot more to lose than Peters' does. If Jauron doesn't post a winning season people are going to want him gone which will present a whole new set of issues for Brandon.

[MarkAF43]

The Bills don't have a bad reputation concerning contract negotiation or extending players. I'm not just pulling that out of my ass -- I've read specific quotes from top agents like Rosenhaus that the Bills are professional and good to work with. They've let a few players walk after their contracts expired (Pat Williams, Nate Clements), but in terms of working with current players on the roster they've never (to my knowledge) taken a hard line position or been unreasonable. Recent draft picks certainly haven't expressed displeasure with the way things were handled.

 

Which begs the question -- what the hell is Eugene Parker doing?

 

I know there's already a long holdout thread going, but I really think this is a different question. Why would Parker think this is the right way to deal with the Bills?

 

 

 

As it has been noted in other threads, Parker has other holdouts in the league.... maybe he is trying a " new innovative" approach and advising players to hold out without getting too in depth with the team on what they want? Rosenhaus and his players try to avoid holdouts, but maybe Parker thinks it's the way to go for his guys

[eball]

kat, you've missed the point as usual. If you've read a shred of anything I've written on this topic, I support a renegotiation and extension for Peters. That's not the issue. What I don't understand is the agent's tactics, when the Bills' history is to deal with players professionally, and this regime in particular only wants players to show some commitment and respect for the team before they'll enter into discussions.

[krazykat]

As it has been noted in other threads, Parker has other holdouts in the league.... maybe he is trying a " new innovative" approach and advising players to hold out without getting too in depth with the team on what they want? Rosenhaus and his players try to avoid holdouts, but maybe Parker thinks it's the way to go for his guys

Well, you also have to remember that while many of our focuses is on the team, this is a business which many forget. And it's first and foremost a business with the entertainment aspect of it unfortunately often coming second. The cart's somewhat before the horse in that way, but fans created their own mess their by supporting mediocrity and poor performance in a "support the team at all costs" mindset, so this is what they get, business first and what drives this bus.

 

I'm not sure his other holdouts have been unreasonable. It would be one thing if Peters were the highest paid linemen yet just underpaid by some standard. But he's getting less on a per season basis than either Walker or Dockery. The pay to performance ratio is much lower for Peters than it is for the other two and even Butler who just got $9M new money in a 3-year extension.

 

IMO the Bills handling of these things is a slap in the face to Peters.

[Dawgg]

kat, you've missed the point as usual. If you've read a shred of anything I've written on this topic, I support a renegotiation and extension for Peters. That's not the issue. What I don't understand is the agent's tactics, when the Bills' history is to deal with players professionally, and this regime in particular only wants players to show some commitment and respect for the team before they'll enter into discussions.

 

Will the Bills pay Peters top-flight tackle money? Sure, they'll give him a raise. But will the Bills make him among the highest paid LT's in the league?

 

Eugene Parker doubts it.

[krazykat]

kat, you've missed the point as usual. If you've read a shred of anything I've written on this topic, I support a renegotiation and extension for Peters. That's not the issue. What I don't understand is the agent's tactics, when the Bills' history is to deal with players professionally, and this regime in particular only wants players to show some commitment and respect for the team before they'll enter into discussions.

First of all let's quit with the bull sh-- insults.

 

Second of all I was writing generally.

 

Thirdly, I was trying to explain to you what Parker's doing. What I wrote is extremely relevant to the situation and at the heart of it all.

 

I didn't even suggest what you personally support or don't. Quit getting so damned defensive, an MB trait.

 

You say with this post that you don't understand the agent's tactics. Well I just explained it all but you seem to think I've missed the point. So leave it for others then.

[krazykat]

Will the Bills pay Peters top-flight tackle money? Sure, they'll give him a raise. But will the Bills make him among the highest paid LT's in the league?

 

Eugene Parker doubts it.

So what. He at least deserves to get more on a per annum basis than Butler, Walker, and Dockery, there's absolutely no arguing that. Right now he makes about what Butler does and substantially less than his bookend Walker and a G in Dockery who's also overrated.

 

If he were the highest paid lineman on this team right now, regardless of how much, he'd be here in all likelihood.

[MarkAF43]

Well, you also have to remember that while many of our focuses is on the team, this is a business which many forget. And it's first and foremost a business with the entertainment aspect of it unfortunately often coming second. The cart's somewhat before the horse in that way, but fans created their own mess their by supporting mediocrity and poor performance in a "support the team at all costs" mindset, so this is what they get, business first and what drives this bus.

 

I'm not sure his other holdouts have been unreasonable. It would be one thing if Peters were the highest paid linemen yet just underpaid by some standard. But he's getting less on a per season basis than either Walker or Dockery. The pay to performance ratio is much lower for Peters than it is for the other two and even Butler who just got $9M new money in a 3-year extension.

 

IMO the Bills handling of these things is a slap in the face to Peters.

 

 

See again, you keep turning this into an issue with the rest of the Bills OL.... I never said that at all, my comments were about the agent, it just shows that all you want to do is turn this into a pissing contest between who we have signed and what we are doing with Peters

[Dawgg]

If he were the highest paid lineman on this team right now, regardless of how much, he'd be here in all likelihood.

 

Doubt it. He's reaching his prime now and a major injury away from losing everything. He wants to be paid for who he is -- the best young tackle prospect in the NFL.

[colin]

good thread (except for krazykat who is a complete troll and makes the most flawed and worthless points).

 

you know, taking all of this on board i can't help but think peters is not healthy. if he's healthy and shows up he will get money. i'm sure they'll put a clause in so that if he goes to probowls he'll get mad cash, but only an idiot would pay the guy without him at least coming in first.

[Chandler#81]

First of all let's quit with the bull sh-- insults.

 

Second of all I was writing generally.

 

Thirdly, I was trying to explain to you what Parker's doing. What I wrote is extremely relevant to the situation and at the heart of it all.

 

I didn't even suggest what you personally support or don't. Quit getting so damned defensive, an MB trait.

 

You say with this post that you don't understand the agent's tactics. Well I just explained it all but you seem to think I've missed the point. So leave it for others then.

 

 

Bold Post of the day!

 

There's hope!

[krazykat]

See again, you keep turning this into an issue with the rest of the Bills OL.... I never said that at all, my comments were about the agent, it just shows that all you want to do is turn this into a pissing contest between who we have signed and what we are doing with Peters

I'm not "trying to turn it into anything." How about relenting on the adversarial approach. Why are so many of you incapable, seemingly, of carrying on a simple discussion or debate without all kinds of personal barbs and insults and condescension?

 

Did I specifically say anything about your positions? No.

 

It's entirely foolish in a market environment, which this is totally, to ignore what other players in that environment are getting. You are insinuating that it's irrelevant when it's completely germane.

 

His agent, which you say you made your comments about, doesn't operate in a vacuum although apparently you think he does since you think that what other lesser players on our team get is immaterial based on your implications in your tirade about me personally and not the issue at hand.

 

His agent is reacting to what he sees, not indiscriminantly holding out all of the players that he handles. He has his reasons and no one can argue that he has no basis, not even Brandon.

 

What we do with Peters hinges entirely on what we've done with the rest of the team. It might make sense in your world for the best player on the team or one of the top few, to be paid like the 15th or wherever he falls. It doesn't to me. How much the other players are getting pushes him down that list, whether OL or not. They also consume the team's resources and cap space also making it a big factor.

 

Naturally you see none of that. Fine, but don't blame me.

[krazykat]

good thread (except for krazykat who is a complete troll and makes the most flawed and worthless points).

 

you know, taking all of this on board i can't help but think peters is not healthy. if he's healthy and shows up he will get money. i'm sure they'll put a clause in so that if he goes to probowls he'll get mad cash, but only an idiot would pay the guy without him at least coming in first.

LOL Of course.

 

Do you know that Peters is not healthy, or are you just guessing?

 

Otherwise, yeah, not a "worthless point" you made or anything. LMAO

 

Funny, everyone's opinion here means more than the facts season after season. If your opinions meant more than a hill of beans, we'd have made the playoffs three or four years since 2000.

[colin]

LOL Of course.

 

Do you know that Peters is not healthy, or are you just guessing?

 

Otherwise, yeah, not a "worthless point" you made or anything. LMAO

 

Funny, everyone's opinion here means more than the facts season after season. If your opinions meant more than a hill of beans, we'd have made the playoffs three or four years since 2000.

 

honestly dude, you suck and aren't a bills fan.

 

all you do is piss and moan about how much the bills suck. go kill yourself or root for the pats, you'll be happier.

 

i said i had a feeling he was hurt, that means i had a feeling. either that or he's just playing hardball and will cave before aug 8. i don't have medical reports, but he's either just playing a dumb game of chicken, or has a real desperate reason to hold out.

 

i am certain of the fact that you are a terrible poster and emphasize you do have the free choice to kill yourself and end the pain. end it for all of us.

[krazykat]

honestly dude, you suck and aren't a bills fan.

 

all you do is piss and moan about how much the bills suck. go kill yourself or root for the pats, you'll be happier.

 

i said i had a feeling he was hurt, that means i had a feeling. either that or he's just playing hardball and will cave before aug 8. i don't have medical reports, but he's either just playing a dumb game of chicken, or has a real desperate reason to hold out.

 

i am certain of the fact that you are a terrible poster and emphasize you do have the free choice to kill yourself and end the pain. end it for all of us.

Yeah, some very good points in there.

 

At least I offer solutions other than "let's just trust people that have only failed or have no proven track record of success."

 

At least I can dissociate myself with the team policies and moves that have brought us this losing team. And what, it's not losing? That's all we've done to date since 2000 with one season of an exception built on false perceptions.

 

Otherwise, I'm very sorry that you disagree with me, but when you challenge my points with nonsense that I in turn challenge, why are you getting so upset with me?

 

Talk about terrible posts. You can't even stay on topic. But hey, you've got the mob mentality behind you which by right of popular vote means what, that your nonsense is meaningful?

[krazykat]

honestly dude, you suck and aren't a bills fan.

And how do you know?

 

What specifically are you a fan of? And please, don't just say the Bills. What, the players, coach, GM, janitor, front office, ...?

 

Are you satisfied with the Bills' team history since 2000?

 

What would you as a fan, if you are one, like to see for this team?

 

Has that happened? If not, then why not in your opinion?

 

What is the reason for those things not having happened?

 

I realize this post is so utterly antisocial and antagonizing that you won't be able to handle it or answer the questions and that I run the risk of further insults, but the questions stand nonetheless. If you'd like to engage in a real discussion, please, feel free.

[colin]

Yeah, some very good points in there.

 

At least I offer solutions other than "let's just trust people that have only failed or have no proven track record of success."

 

At least I can dissociate myself with the team policies and moves that have brought us this losing team. And what, it's not losing? That's all we've done to date since 2000 with one season of an exception built on false perceptions.

 

Otherwise, I'm very sorry that you disagree with me, but when you challenge my points with nonsense that I in turn challenge, why are you getting so upset with me?

 

Talk about terrible posts. You can't even stay on topic. But hey, you've got the mob mentality behind you which by right of popular vote means what, that your nonsense is meaningful?

 

you slow witted clown.

 

this thread is (supposed) to be about the curious nature of this holdout. the bills aren't the vikings or some team that does this a lot. this agent only recently had a lot of guys holding out, so the (very good) question is why is this happening now? no matter what you think of the bills front office (or suicide, which i really think you should look into) this is a strange situation for peters and since he stands to lose so very much if he does sit for a season, makes normal posters wonder if he's being desperate for a reason. and no one's seen him healthy since december of 07.

 

remember tho, it's up the stream not across the street.

[stuckincincy]

you slow witted clown.

 

Very good, colin!