VOR Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Note that the Bills desperately traded up for this guy after passing on Ngata to take a safety. Yet another illustration as to why passing on a blue-chip DT in favor of a safety is usually not a smart move. Ngata wasn't considered a "blue-chip DT." Hindsight is a wonderful thing, ain't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spartacus Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 You'll obviously get no disagreement from me. I merely posted that because as the site whipping boy that was my independent assessment of McCargo just about to a T and everyone said I don't know what I'm talking about. Well here's McCargo himself and DL coach Kollar fully validating my views. I also thought it was funny that the biggest mouths on this board that offer the least in terms of good discussion are the ones saying the complete opposite. Otherwise, to your post, I fully concur. It's not good news. The good news is that we should be deep enough at DT to find a decent starter opposite Stroud who apparently is looking solid and good which is great news. He alone, if 100%, is capable of changing the complexion of a DL. I've avidly watched him in Jax and have been a huge fan of his for years. I just have concerns as to his return from a relatively serious injury and won't be fully convinced until I see him play 15+ games. But for now the news is excellent and from Johnson and Williams one of the two should be able to start if necessary. We don't need another Stroud although that would be great, but we do need a solid presence. Hopefully Williams' third season will propel him upward. I do believe the above revelations by Koller regarding McCargo are a big reason Kyle Williams has a big spanking new contract. maybe a knee jerk reaction as to who the future is (or is not) at DT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Everyone here has continually argued that we should've taken Ngata instead of Whitner. There were also people screaming that we should've taken Broderick Bunkley (How's that working out for Philly by the way?) at the time. It's all hit or miss anyway. Though Ngata has started to emerge as a top DT in the league, it was not a certainty. The Bills had a lock on Whitner from the beginning and I'm pretty content with him roaming the secondary. If we had Ngata, our team would probably look ALOT different right now. No Stroud, we wouldn't have traded up for McCargo, we don't know who would be the starting SS, there would've been other picks that were made if we hadn't given up what we did to get McCargo. Our whole team would be completely different. But you know what? We are who we are with McCargo. That's a team generating some buzz around the NFL and in the hearts of their fans that we will be making some noise in the AFC this year. Possibly even in the playoffs. All the "if's", "maybe's", "shoulda's", and "coulda's" mean absolutely nothing. Enjoy the 2008 season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Ngata wasn't considered a "blue-chip DT." Hindsight is a wonderful thing, ain't it? He sure as hell was. And ended up being the 1st DT taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Spartacus Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I do believe the above revelations by Koller regarding McCargo are a big reason Kyle Williams has a big spanking new contract. maybe a knee jerk reaction as to who the future is (or is not) at DT Why are you stealing my TBD name? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I do believe the above revelations by Koller regarding McCargo are a big reason Kyle Williams has a big spanking new contract. maybe a knee jerk reaction as to who the future is (or is not) at DT That draft is looking more and more suspect, even more so than last year. This was Marv's rookier draft, had everyone scratching their heads. McCargo looking like a 1st round bust. Youboty might not even make the team this year. Simpson seems to have problems staying on the field. 1 8 Donte Whitner SS Ohio State 1 26 John McCargo DT North Carolina State 3 70 Ashton Youboty CB Ohio State 4 105 Ko Simpson FS South Carolina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 He sure as hell was. And ended up being the 1st DT taken. What he said ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 That draft is looking more and more suspect, even more so than last year. This was Marv's rookier draft, had everyone scratching their heads. McCargo looking like a 1st round bust. Youboty might not even make the team this year. Simpson seems to have problems staying on the field. 1 8 Donte Whitner SS Ohio State 1 26 John McCargo DT North Carolina State 3 70 Ashton Youboty CB Ohio State 4 105 Ko Simpson FS South Carolina It's a conspiracy to keep the Bills down. Marv Levy has actually joined forces with the evil Wayne Huizenga in an attempt to crush the Bills franchise and get it moved to Toronto or LA. AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Ngata wasn't considered a "blue-chip DT." Hindsight is a wonderful thing, ain't it? Credibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
San-O Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 It's a conspiracy to keep the Bills down. Marv Levy has actually joined forces with the evil Wayne Huizenga in an attempt to crush the Bills franchise and get it moved to Toronto or LA. AAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I know you're joking, but.... I don't really think you can call it a conspiracy, as much as a business decision: o Make the team profitable. o Cut costs: no GM, promote from within, low price coaches. o Make the team more regional, already moved a game to Canada. $$$ o Make the team moderately competitive (not since 2000). o Keep the team young. All this will make the team very appealing, for potential sale. Ralph said it himself, he's not concerned about the fans concern over the team being moved. The only surprise to me, is he named the stadium after himself instead of milking a few extra million selling naming rights again. (Is there another team in ANY U.S. pro sport that has a facility named after the current owner?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 The only surprise to me, is he named the stadium after himself instead of milking a few extra million selling naming rights again. (Is there another team in ANY U.S. pro sport that has a facility named after the current owner?) Yes. Rogers Centre in Toronto, Turner Field in Atlanta (both MLB). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Yes. Rogers Centre in Toronto, Turner Field in Atlanta (both MLB). Aaaaaahhhhhh, Toronto, Aaaaaaaaahhhhhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Everyone here has continually argued that we should've taken Ngata instead of Whitner. There were also people screaming that we should've taken Broderick Bunkley (How's that working out for Philly by the way?) at the time. It's all hit or miss anyway. Though Ngata has started to emerge as a top DT in the league, it was not a certainty. The Bills had a lock on Whitner from the beginning and I'm pretty content with him roaming the secondary. If we had Ngata, our team would probably look ALOT different right now. No Stroud, we wouldn't have traded up for McCargo, we don't know who would be the starting SS, there would've been other picks that were made if we hadn't given up what we did to get McCargo. Our whole team would be completely different. But you know what? We are who we are with McCargo. That's a team generating some buzz around the NFL and in the hearts of their fans that we will be making some noise in the AFC this year. Possibly even in the playoffs. All the "if's", "maybe's", "shoulda's", and "coulda's" mean absolutely nothing. Enjoy the 2008 season Bunkley had issues his first year and barely got on the field. The following season he got the picture and is a starter for Philadelphia. McCargo's work ethic was and still is questioned. Most troubling about the 2006 draft is how it's faring just 2+ years later. There was rampant talk that this draft was amazing, yet if anything, it's been very normal considering the team had the 8th overall pick. In addition, many of those picks merely bridged the gap until someone better could arrive. Ellison, Simpson, and Pennington fit nicely into that category. Whitner, Butler, and Williams will be the only players who are long term starters, and it's ironic that a fifth rounder in Williams is displacing a 1st rounder they traded for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Bunkley had issues his first year and barely got on the field. The following season he got the picture and is a starter for Philadelphia. McCargo's work ethic was and still is questioned. Most troubling about the 2006 draft is how it's faring just 2+ years later. There was rampant talk that this draft was amazing, yet if anything, it's been very normal considering the team had the 8th overall pick. In addition, many of those picks merely bridged the gap until someone better could arrive. Ellison, Simpson, and Pennington fit nicely into that category. Whitner, Butler, and Williams will be the only players who are long term starters, and it's ironic that a fifth rounder in Williams is displacing a 1st rounder they traded for. Look at any of the Donahoe drafts It's a guessing game. Sometimes there are players that you KNOW are going to make it like a Larry Fitzgerald, a Ladanian Tomlinson, a Mario Williams, a Patrick Willis, a D'Brikashaw Ferguson. Other times you have people that are supposed to be locks that turn into nothing like a Ryan Leaf, Reggie Bush, Mike Williams (Texas and USC version), Robet Gallery, and the list goes on. 20/20 is hindsight, but it can't change the present. And it's not a conspiracy to sell the Bills and move them out of town. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Credibility Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave mcbride Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 Bunkley had issues his first year and barely got on the field. The following season he got the picture and is a starter for Philadelphia. McCargo's work ethic was and still is questioned. Most troubling about the 2006 draft is how it's faring just 2+ years later. There was rampant talk that this draft was amazing, yet if anything, it's been very normal considering the team had the 8th overall pick. In addition, many of those picks merely bridged the gap until someone better could arrive. Ellison, Simpson, and Pennington fit nicely into that category. Whitner, Butler, and Williams will be the only players who are long term starters, and it's ironic that a fifth rounder in Williams is displacing a 1st rounder they traded for. 3 starters from one draft is actually way above average, and if you include Simpson (who will probably be starting), that's 4. I suggest checking out drafts from any random team from, oh, say 2005 and find a better batting average. You'll be hard pressed to do so. Re: McCargo, I love the premise of this thread, which is based on an inference from the article. My experience has been when coaches talk like this to the media, they're trying to light a fire because they think the player under discussion can finally take it to the next level. If the coach didn't think so, the talk would most likely be nicey-nice (i.e., find me similar articles about Flowers and Mike Williams before they were shown the door). I'm no booster of McCargo, but call me crazy for deciding to wait and see how he actually plays this year before casting judgment. I realize that those rooting for the Bills to lose so that they can prove their superior personnel and business management skills to a fan message board feel differently, but I'd rather be on the sunny side that roots for the team to win and hopes for the best, to be honest. Rooting for your team to lose to make a point ain't no fun (or so I think). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawgg Posted August 1, 2008 Share Posted August 1, 2008 I'm no booster of McCargo, but call me crazy for deciding to wait and see how he actually plays this year before casting judgment. I realize that those rooting for the Bills to lose so that they can prove their superior personnel and business management skills to a fan message board feel differently, but I'd rather be on the sunny side that roots for the team to win and hopes for the best, to be honest. Rooting for your team to lose to make a point ain't no fun (or so I think). Hey I'd love to see McCargo tear it up all season long -- but one need look no further than the depth chart for a pretty revealing indication of where he stands. Fined for being overweight -- which signals a clear lack of commitment to the team. Inability to crack the starting lineup -- which signals a lack of faith by the coaching staff. By virtue of my belief in the coaching staff alone, I think it's fair to infer that he is a bust THUS FAR. In any case, it doesn't take a vast understanding of personnel to realize that McCargo was a reach. He played on a line with 2 other bona fide studs and frankly speaking, he wasn't a first-round caliber player. The Bills not only blew the pick, they paid an awful lot go move up and get him -- in a very deep draft. Guess that's what happens when you choose a safety in the top 10 when you're desperate for a DT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 He sure as hell was. And ended up being the 1st DT taken. As I said, hindsight is a wonderful thing. I never once heard the term "blue-chip" associated with Ngata's name around the 2006 draft, and I'd be interested to know how many of you who now say he was one thought he was one back then and/or wanted the Bills to draft him. Believe it or not, he was the guy I wanted the Bills to draft with the 8th pick in the 2006 draft. Not because he was a "blue-chip DT," but because he looked like a run-stopper that the Bills needed with the loss of Pat Williams (who incidentally, the Bills got as an UDFA). But I've seen a few debates over whether a run-stopping DT is a player you take high in the draft, versus a pass-rushing DT like Tommie Harris, who was taken 14th overall in the 2004 draft. Not to mention there have been several "blue-chip DT's" who have busted, like Gerard Warren, Ryan Sims, DeWayne Robertson, and Jonathan Sullivan, to know that there are no guarantees when you draft a player, "blue-chip" or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I couldn't have scripted a better retort to AKC's post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted August 2, 2008 Share Posted August 2, 2008 I couldn't have scripted a better retort to AKC's post. Your little "solo" reach-around is quite entertaining. Don't let the vapor-free world to discourage you from continuing on your chosen trajectory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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