cantstopbeastmode Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 It just keeps getting crazier. Seriously, look at what is happening...... They won't pay their pro bowl LT, but they will pay their #11 corner (who will play out his contract and leave) more than the #10. Great. Whitner, who doesn't force fumbles, sack qbs, or pick off passes is now something of a guru; a team leader who makes most of his tackles a mile past scrimage. Look, I love this team; I always will, but to quote SDS, I am becoming more of a "fan of Bills Fans and WNY" than I am of the way this team is managed. They are a blueprint of what not to do in terms of building a football team that wins games. I invite any football fan to examine the rosters of every team that ever won, let alone made a superbowl. These names will include LTs Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Jumbo Elliot, Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, Will Wolford, Jackie Slater, and a host of others that I am too lazy to look up/list. Many of these teams had great corners too but excuse me....where is our Deion Sanders. Mel Blount? No, we use our top resources on corners, most of whom are good, and then we let them walk. Makes sense? Our OL WITH Peters is thin, yet we devote our resources to being a farm team for defensive backs, this as a cold weather where passing matters less. Imo, Bills Fans are the greatest fans of any team in any sport. We deserve far more than stupidity like this. The good news is that if we tank yet again, one would think that Jauron is gone. Maybe they will throw the rest of these idiots out as well and hire some people who know how to build a strong football team, and win. Right on dude. I'm right there with ya. I think Jauron is the biggest idiot on the planet, nonetheless I'm a huge fan. Being stuck in the middle sucks balls.
Kelly the Dog Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 There's something fishy about the fact that McKelvin's contract is reported to be bigger than Mayo's. I have to believe that a term, an amount, and guarantees aren't really enough information to compare rookie contracts - there are far too many incentives worked into any of those deals. Mayo has more guaranteed money, and likely, will have an easier time reaching his escalators than McKelvin will. True. The important thing to the players is the guaranteed money. Plus, we don't know whether the incentives in any of the three are easy to reach, like playing in half the team's games, or difficult to reach, like making a pro bowl or something. McKelvin's 19.4 million included his incentives, as if he already reached them, according to Schefter. I am not sure either way whether the other two including their incentives or not. But the guaranteed money in those three deals was split kind of close. Not to mention that some players may agree to less total money for more money guaranteed, and another may take less guaranteed but more in the long run.
elegantelliotoffen Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 How many days of camp did Whitner miss when he was a rookie?
BillsWatch Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 And then there was one: Jason Peters. Nope. Jason is a holdout who is not honoring his contract. Completely different.
bills_red Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 How many days of camp did Whitner miss when he was a rookie? I think it was over a week not sure
PromoTheRobot Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 I knew when I would read this otherwise happy thread, there would be those who manage to find fault with the Bills. First the Bills are too cheap. Then they overpaid McKelvin. Then they should have signed him last week, and the B word-fest continues. Has it ever occured to these rays of sunshine that maybe they don't know all the facts? Please spare us the "I love this team but..." blather. Just find another team to follow or STFU PTR
cantankerous Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 Good to see the Bills took the extra time and still overpaid. If they were going to open the checkbook, you think they could have closed the deal before camp started. Would you like some cheese with that whine?
Dan Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 I knew when I would read this otherwise happy thread, there would be those who manage to find fault with the Bills. First the Bills are to cheap. Then they overpaid McKelvin. Then they should have signed him last week, and the B word-fest continues. Has it ever occured to these rays of sunshine that maybe they don't know all the facts? Please spare us the "I love this team but..." blather. Just find another team to follow or STFU PTR Much Agreed! I think several people are going just a bit over the top here to badmouth the FO. First of all, as we all know the only part of a contract worth much is the guaranteed money. In that regard, McKelvin falls right between the #10 and the #12 pick. The total value is most certainly based on several incentives and such that he'll probably never see. So, the thought that he's being way overpaid is ludicrous. Secondly, of course, he's one of the higher paid guys on the team. First round picks always are. That's what's wrong with the system and has so many people calling for a slotted contract structure for NFL rookies. The first pick is immediately one of the highest paid players in the league let alone his own team. So, to suggest that the Bills' FO somehow is wrong to pay McKelvin money right in line with the #10 and #12 pick regardless of where that puts him salarywise on the team is just looking for a reason to complain. Thirdly, this contract and negotiation has nothing to do with Peters or Evans. So, to bring them into the discussion is again just a blatant attempt to find something to complain about.
bills44 Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 I knew when I would read this otherwise happy thread, there would be those who manage to find fault with the Bills. First the Bills are too cheap. Then they overpaid McKelvin. Then they should have signed him last week, and the B word-fest continues. Has it ever occured to these rays of sunshine that maybe they don't know all the facts? Please spare us the "I love this team but..." blather. Just find another team to follow or STFU PTR Couldn't agree more. Reading these threads, you see the same people whining over and over (and over) - usually about the same f'n thing. As you said, these people invariably say "I love this team, but..."
cantstopbeastmode Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 Couldn't agree more. Reading these threads, you see the same people whining over and over (and over) - usually about the same f'n thing. As you said, these people invariably say "I love this team, but..." How the hell can you blame someone for that? You love a team, but they consistently fail. Sounds like something worth whining about. Are you pleased with the losing records and overall weak teams????
Saint Doug Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 Many of these teams had great corners too but excuse me....where is our Deion Sanders. Mel Blount? No, we use our top resources on corners, most of whom are good, and then we let them walk. Makes sense? Our OL WITH Peters is thin, yet we devote our resources to being a farm team for defensive backs, this as a cold weather franchise where passing matters less. Imo, Bills Fans are the greatest fans of any team in any sport. We deserve far more than stupidity like this. I would rather be a farm team for DBs than to sign one after their rookie contract expires. Look how much veteran DBs are making. It's ridiculous! I would rather draft a McKelvin and let him walk after 5 years than pay what San Fran gave to Clements. I say drafting a DB in the first round every 4-5 years is not devoting our resources. Signing a DB to Clement's contract is devoting too much resources. We can deal with young DBs here - we don't need expensive veteran-type DBs for our type of game. Our OL may be thin, but we are pouring considerable resources into it - with what Dockery and Walker are making. The jury is still out on how good Butler is going to be, but we did throw a bunch of cash his way. Now, I do agree that superbowl teams need great LTs, so I think we should pay Peters more, but I think he needs to be at camp (read: a team player) before we show him the money.
Max997 Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 It just keeps getting crazier. Seriously, look at what is happening...... They won't pay their pro bowl LT, but they will pay their #11 corner (who will play out his contract and leave) more than the #10. Great. Whitner, who doesn't force fumbles, sack qbs, or pick off passes is now something of a guru; a team leader who makes most of his tackles a mile past scrimage. Look, I love this team; I always will, but to quote SDS, I am becoming more of a "fan of Bills Fans and WNY" than I am of the way this team is managed. They are a blueprint of what not to do in terms of building a football team that wins games. I invite any football fan to examine the rosters of every team that ever won, let alone made a superbowl. These names will include LTs Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Jumbo Elliot, Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, Will Wolford, Jackie Slater, and a host of others that I am too lazy to look up/list. Many of these teams had great corners too but excuse me....where is our Deion Sanders. Mel Blount? No, we use our top resources on corners, most of whom are good, and then we let them walk. Makes sense? Our OL WITH Peters is thin, yet we devote our resources to being a farm team for defensive backs, this as a cold weather franchise where passing matters less. Imo, Bills Fans are the greatest fans of any team in any sport. We deserve far more than stupidity like this. The good news is that if we tank yet again, one would think that Jauron is gone. Maybe they will throw the rest of these idiots out as well and hire some people who know how to build a strong football team, and win. they've already paid their pro bowl LT, get your facts straight...the Bills are handling the Peters situation exactly as they should and they did not pay the #11 pick more then the #10 pick, look at the guaranteed money because thats all that matters, Im amazed at how many people on this board dont know that
HurlyBurly51 Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 It just keeps getting crazier. Seriously, look at what is happening...... They won't pay their pro bowl LT, but they will pay their #11 corner (who will play out his contract and leave) more than the #10. Great. Whitner, who doesn't force fumbles, sack qbs, or pick off passes is now something of a guru; a team leader who makes most of his tackles a mile past scrimage. Look, I love this team; I always will, but to quote SDS, I am becoming more of a "fan of Bills Fans and WNY" than I am of the way this team is managed. They are a blueprint of what not to do in terms of building a football team that wins games. I invite any football fan to examine the rosters of every team that ever won, let alone made a superbowl. These names will include LTs Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Jumbo Elliot, Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, Will Wolford, Jackie Slater, and a host of others that I am too lazy to look up/list. Many of these teams had great corners too but excuse me....where is our Deion Sanders. Mel Blount? No, we use our top resources on corners, most of whom are good, and then we let them walk. Makes sense? Our OL WITH Peters is thin, yet we devote our resources to being a farm team for defensive backs, this as a cold weather franchise where passing matters less. Imo, Bills Fans are the greatest fans of any team in any sport. We deserve far more than stupidity like this. The good news is that if we tank yet again, one would think that Jauron is gone. Maybe they will throw the rest of these idiots out as well and hire some people who know how to build a strong football team, and win. Who says we won't pay our LT? Maybe if Peters' agent could walk and chew gum at the same time we'd have paid our LT by now. As it is, once he finishes up Jasckon's contract with the Rams, and assuming he does the smart thing and advises his client to actually show up at camp and demonstrate a little good faith and commitment by honoring his contract (like his other client Hester did) then maybe we can find out what he wants to be paid and start actually negotiating. I'm confident that by opening day Peters and Evans for that matter will be inked and happy. And I also believe the defensive scheme and players around him this year will allow Whitner to be doing all those things you slammed him for. We've got all our draft picks signed and in camp. We'll take care of the other priorities. The season opener is 6 weeks away - talk about a need for instant gratification, jeez!
Steely Dan Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 Glad to have him in...it should be interesting to see what happens in the battle for the CB position..... I like the Lee Evans avatar. It just keeps getting crazier. Seriously, look at what is happening...... They won't pay their pro bowl LT, but they will pay their #11 corner (who will play out his contract and leave) more than the #10. Great. Whitner, who doesn't force fumbles, sack qbs, or pick off passes is now something of a guru; a team leader who makes most of his tackles a mile past scrimage. Look, I love this team; I always will, but to quote SDS, I am becoming more of a "fan of Bills Fans and WNY" than I am of the way this team is managed. They are a blueprint of what not to do in terms of building a football team that wins games. I invite any football fan to examine the rosters of every team that ever won, let alone made a superbowl. These names will include LTs Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Jumbo Elliot, Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, Will Wolford, Jackie Slater, and a host of others that I am too lazy to look up/list. Many of these teams had great corners too but excuse me....where is our Deion Sanders. Mel Blount? No, we use our top resources on corners, most of whom are good, and then we let them walk. Makes sense? Our OL WITH Peters is thin, yet we devote our resources to being a farm team for defensive backs, this as a cold weather franchise where passing matters less. Imo, Bills Fans are the greatest fans of any team in any sport. We deserve far more than stupidity like this. The good news is that if we tank yet again, one would think that Jauron is gone. Maybe they will throw the rest of these idiots out as well and hire some people who know how to build a strong football team, and win. Soooooo, you don't think it's Buffalo's year to make the playoffs? True. The important thing to the players is the guaranteed money. Plus, we don't know whether the incentives in any of the three are easy to reach, like playing in half the team's games, or difficult to reach, like making a pro bowl or something. McKelvin's 19.4 million included his incentives, as if he already reached them, according to Schefter. I am not sure either way whether the other two including their incentives or not. But the guaranteed money in those three deals was split kind of close. Not to mention that some players may agree to less total money for more money guaranteed, and another may take less guaranteed but more in the long run. I think voidable years have a lot to do with it too. Much Agreed! I think several people are going just a bit over the top here to badmouth the FO. First of all, as we all know the only part of a contract worth much is the guaranteed money. In that regard, McKelvin falls right between the #10 and the #12 pick. The total value is most certainly based on several incentives and such that he'll probably never see. So, the thought that he's being way overpaid is ludicrous. Secondly, of course, he's one of the higher paid guys on the team. First round picks always are. That's what's wrong with the system and has so many people calling for a slotted contract structure for NFL rookies. The first pick is immediately one of the highest paid players in the league let alone his own team. So, to suggest that the Bills' FO somehow is wrong to pay McKelvin money right in line with the #10 and #12 pick regardless of where that puts him salarywise on the team is just looking for a reason to complain. Thirdly, this contract and negotiation has nothing to do with Peters or Evans. So, to bring them into the discussion is again just a blatant attempt to find something to complain about. How the hell can you blame someone for that? You love a team, but they consistently fail. Sounds like something worth whining about. Are you pleased with the losing records and overall weak teams???? I guess we disagree on whether this is a weak team anymore or not. I would rather be a farm team for DBs than to sign one after their rookie contract expires. Look how much veteran DBs are making. It's ridiculous! I would rather draft a McKelvin and let him walk after 5 years than pay what San Fran gave to Clements. I say drafting a DB in the first round every 4-5 years is not devoting our resources. Signing a DB to Clement's contract is devoting too much resources. We can deal with young DBs here - we don't need expensive veteran-type DBs for our type of game. Our OL may be thin, but we are pouring considerable resources into it - with what Dockery and Walker are making. The jury is still out on how good Butler is going to be, but we did throw a bunch of cash his way. Now, I do agree that superbowl teams need great LTs, so I think we should pay Peters more, but I think he needs to be at camp (read: a team player) before we show him the money. Amen Brutha!
LynchMob23 Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 I think with regard to McKelvin's (and Schobel's and Kelsay's and Dockery's and Williams' and Butler's) contract, you have to realize they are inflated numbers wise by Not Likely To Be Earned (NLTBE) Incentives. They're a delightful way of bumping the cap next year when a person's bonuses get put back into the pool. So what if McKelvin has more of a ceiling than Mayo? That just means that 2-3 million difference is something that can be rebated next year into our cap. Haven't you noticed we've been in the top 5 or so in cap room despite the fact we've "overpaid" all these guys? That because when a Marcus Stroud rolls along we have the space to pick him up. Or when a Dockery gets 7/49, we can add some NLTBE incentives into his contract to pay for when Evans comes free. Or Crowell. Peters and his agent have not been participating in good faith. 2 years ago when he signed that deal, he couldn't go to any other team because he was an ERFA. The Bills acted in good faith and paid him according to him being a RT with the possibility that both sides knew he would switch.
Bill from NYC Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 I knew when I would read this otherwise happy thread, there would be those who manage to find fault with the Bills. First the Bills are too cheap. Then they overpaid McKelvin. Then they should have signed him last week, and the B word-fest continues. Has it ever occured to these rays of sunshine that maybe they don't know all the facts? Please spare us the "I love this team but..." blather. Just find another team to follow or STFU PTR A little rash Promo, no? We are all huge fans here and have our moments if you will. I remember when you were advocating switching to the Bisons. This particular situation (Peters) bothers me a ton. Imo, there is no way we can win without him, thus the rant. The Bills mean a lot to me; probably too much, and watching this thing go down is on my last nerve. Sorry about that.
Bill from NYC Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 I would rather be a farm team for DBs than to sign one after their rookie contract expires. Look how much veteran DBs are making. It's ridiculous! I would rather draft a McKelvin and let him walk after 5 years than pay what San Fran gave to Clements. I say drafting a DB in the first round every 4-5 years is not devoting our resources. Signing a DB to Clement's contract is devoting too much resources. We can deal with young DBs here - we don't need expensive veteran-type DBs for our type of game. Our OL may be thin, but we are pouring considerable resources into it - with what Dockery and Walker are making. The jury is still out on how good Butler is going to be, but we did throw a bunch of cash his way. Now, I do agree that superbowl teams need great LTs, so I think we should pay Peters more, but I think he needs to be at camp (read: a team player) before we show him the money. Imo, most of your post has merit (not that you should care mind you) except the bolded. The reason for this is that we have already tried it, and the results are in...... a decade of losing. I think that 3rd and 4th defensive backs with strong players in front of them look better than 1st round defensive backs with Larry Tripplett in front of them. Imo, Jauron has no "swagger" if you will. He coaches and drafts to "not lose" rather than attack. This will never work in a cold weather, blue collar town like Buffalo.
VOR Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 McKelvin got guaranteed money in between the 10th and 12th pick. That's all that matters. And the 13th pick, RB Jonathan Stewart, got 5 years and $20M from Carolina. But $10.8M is guaranteed.
PromoTheRobot Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 How the hell can you blame someone for that? You love a team, but they consistently fail. Sounds like something worth whining about. Are you pleased with the losing records and overall weak teams???? Maintain some perspective here. 31 teams "fail" every year. Few NFL teams are grossly incompetent. Arizona and Oakland come to mind. The Bills have had their periods of poor management, but this is not one of them. they've already paid their pro bowl LT, get your facts straight...the Bills are handling the Peters situation exactly as they should and they did not pay the #11 pick more then the #10 pick, look at the guaranteed money because thats all that matters, Im amazed at how many people on this board dont know that Bingo. People were predicting McKelvin holding out because he wasn't signed a month ago. Give the Bills brss a little credit. If something doesn't happen right away, don't assume we're being cheap or stupid. There are factors that aren't reported to the public. A little rash Promo, no? We are all huge fans here and have our moments if you will. I remember when you were advocating switching to the Bisons. This particular situation (Peters) bothers me a ton. Imo, there is no way we can win without him, thus the rant. The Bills mean a lot to me; probably too much, and watching this thing go down is on my last nerve. Sorry about that. Bill, you are a long-timer so I respect your opinion more than some of the noobs. And I'm guilty of spouting vitriol on the Sabres board when we lost Drury and Briere (most pissed about Drury.) But I think you're being too quick to condemn the Bills, especially on Peters. I feel Peters and his agent are behaving badly here and the Bills have shown they are willing to pay you if you honor your commitments. (see Evans) I also believe caving to Peters now, the way things stand, would set a bad prescedent, and send the wrong message to the rest of the team. I think he'll be back before too long (like Hester) because if he really holds out the season he's screwing himself. PTR
Lurker Posted July 27, 2008 Posted July 27, 2008 I invite any football fan to examine the rosters of every team that ever won, let alone made a superbowl. These names will include LTs Orlando Pace, Jonathan Ogden, Jumbo Elliot, Walter Jones, Anthony Munoz, Will Wolford, Jackie Slater, and a host of others that I am too lazy to look up/list. David Diehl, Kareem McKenzie, Adam Koets, Shane Olivea, Guy Whimper Ryan Diem, Tony Ugoh, Charlie Johnson, Michael Toudouze, Daniel Federkeil, Corey Hilliard Marvel Smith, Max Starks, Willie Colon, Trai Essex, Jeremy Parquet Matt Light, Tom Ashworth/Brandon Gorin, Ryan O'Callaghan, Wessley Britt, any other no name player you can sign Barry Sims, Lincoln Kennedy...
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