OK, So for those of you that support this Front Office, ...

[elegantelliotoffen]

I suppose that the bottom line is that many of you here prefer the way that this team's management has run the team over the last 8 years without a playoff appearance, with only one pathetic 9-7 winning season, and without a playoff win for 12 seasons.

 

That's OK. But a lot of people aren't satisfied with it, including me, and we see exactly why it is occurring and continues to occur since nothing has changed to correct those things besides more of the same.

 

I guess some peoples' standards are just higher than others. Again, which is OK I suppose although difficult to understand in sports where winning and championships are key.

 

Nice straw man.

[BUFFALOTONE]

I suppose that the bottom line is that many of you here prefer the way that this team's management has run the team over the last 8 years without a playoff appearance, with only one pathetic 9-7 winning season, and without a playoff win for 12 seasons.

 

That's OK. But a lot of people aren't satisfied with it, including me, and we see exactly why it is occurring and continues to occur since nothing has changed to correct those things besides more of the same.

 

I guess some peoples' standards are just higher than others. Again, which is OK I suppose although difficult to understand in sports where winning and championships are key.

 

Its sad but I agree with you that this is probably Lee's last season as Bill. If they wanted to get something done it would have happened by now. With the money WR's are getting on the open market I can see him out the door. While you do make osme solid points I disagree with the fact that the Fo is signing mediocre talent. They all cnat be game breakers but they are doing a great job of securing young talent in the right places. Who knows half these guys could be Pro Bowlers 2 years from now and we could have got them on the cheap, you dont know that.

 

kelsay argument is dead on, this guy needs to earn his pay or be released. He has been terrible.

 

Peters will be in camp, he will not sit out and they will do something similar to what Urlacher did.

[krazykat]

You sound like a whiney little b*tch who wants to root for the Pats because they're good right now.

 

They've got a great front office. Why not go cheer them on?

 

You know what the positives are? They're from Buffalo, same as everyone on this board. You shouldn't need anything else. I'll be positive and hopeful about them until I'm gone or they're gone.

 

There is a difference in criticizing them when they make bad decisions and just being a negative person about everything.

 

My guess is that you're the type of person who will never be happy, even though you'll respond to this that you are.

 

So keep up the tirade and see how many sympathetic souls you'll find here. I completely understand that you're frustrated with the lack of production that we've seen the past few years, but being a complete d*ck on a message board won't change the situation.

 

It's sort of like a marriage, good times & bad.

Well now at least you're making some F-ing sense. LOL

 

Yes, the FO of the Pats is to be emulated. Instead, we continue to emulate the crap that we've had and hire according to that standard and not theirs, the Chargers', the Colts', Giants', etc.

 

So attaboy! Keep thinking along those lines.

 

My guess is that you're the type of person who will never be happy, even though you'll respond to this that you are.

 

I'll be happy when we finally have a team that can beat other football teams in the NFL by playing football the way it was meant to be played and on fundamentally sound play with the strength of two great lines just like we had in the '90s.

 

If you're happy bringing up the rear of the league in everything and having to rely on enough crappy teams on our schedule so that we can post a winning season, then good for you. Please don't challenge me for wanting more from my team though. Talk about tirades. LOL

 

So keep up the tirade and see how many sympathetic souls you'll find here. I completely understand that you're frustrated with the lack of production that we've seen the past few years, but being a complete d*ck on a message board won't change the situation.

 

I don't care about sympathy. Everyone else's low standards don't affect me. I see things a little differently than you however. What I see is people coming down on me and other fans similar to me with comparable views, being chastised for wanting to correct the issues on the team that continually bring us all "pile of sh--" performance and telling us to like it or shut up.

 

I ask you, where do the issues really lie? LOL

 

I get classified as "a dick" more because most of you that challenge the notions that I/we put forth simply have no answers and as you see it we should just suck up mediocrity if we even get that, slop performance otherwise.

 

I would strongly suggest that the ones with the major issues are the ones that keep making excuses for this crap and have no higher standards that call the performance of the very team that they say they want to excel into question when it's fully known why they suck due to an extensive proven track record of misery.

 

But hey, it'll be funny as usual how you and others turn into what you accuse me of by week 12 but then at that point it will be fully acceptible by your standards, huh.

 

I want to know where the open letters to Wilson are to fire Modrak? Or John Guy? Or why we once again hire a GM and OC with absolutely no experience between them?

 

I suppose that means you enjoy all that and what it produces.

 

It's sort of like a marriage, good times & bad.

 

Not really. In a marriage it's a partnership with both parties equally responsible. Here it's the team insisting that you suck up whatever they push your way. You have absolutely no input other than say what you say here. And it seems to me that if this is a marriage, then your spouse is cheating on you and all you're doing is making excuses as to why the reason for it is you and why you should put up with it for another 20 years. Right. Yup, exactly it.

 

And here's the kicker, you are happy with it, .... apparently. Otherwise I can't explain it.

[ricojes]

Its sad but I agree with you that this is probably Lee's last season as Bill. If they wanted to get something done it would have happened by now. With the money WR's are getting on the open market I can see him out the door. While you do make osme solid points I disagree with the fact that the Fo is signing mediocre talent. They all cnat be game breakers but they are doing a great job of securing young talent in the right places. Who knows half these guys could be Pro Bowlers 2 years from now and we could have got them on the cheap, you dont know that.

 

kelsay argument is dead on, this guy needs to earn his pay or be released. He has been terrible.

 

Peters will be in camp, he will not sit out and they will do something similar to what Urlacher did.

I can only go by what's reported or said, I don't like to speculate. But listen to RB on WGR, here's the link:

 

Link

 

It sounds like they are working hard to get this deal done. I have not lost hope, but they do need to get it done before the season starts...

 

EDIT--This wasn't the interview I heard yesterday, it was actually this morning. But he does mention Lee's situation.

[krazykat]

Its sad but I agree with you that this is probably Lee's last season as Bill. If they wanted to get something done it would have happened by now. With the money WR's are getting on the open market I can see him out the door. While you do make osme solid points I disagree with the fact that the Fo is signing mediocre talent. They all cnat be game breakers but they are doing a great job of securing young talent in the right places. Who knows half these guys could be Pro Bowlers 2 years from now and we could have got them on the cheap, you dont know that.

 

kelsay argument is dead on, this guy needs to earn his pay or be released. He has been terrible.

 

Peters will be in camp, he will not sit out and they will do something similar to what Urlacher did.

Thanks for a civil non defensive response. It's refreshing.

 

I highlighted a key phrase for you in your response. Otherwise once again I will clarify.

 

I said nothing about the caliber of players we are signing per se, rather the money they get for what they are. You say the Kelsay signing was bad in agreement with me. But he's one of the better performing players of the ones I've mentioned. Brad Butler has shown nothing indicative that he's even playing to Kelsay's level. See, we can all say, "did you seem him play last year, he was good,..." etc. But the fact of the matter is that the play of our offense sucked and the line was obviously at the heart of it. We know that Peters is good, we know that Dockery is an above average G although little more. The line wouldn't have been so bad if Butler had been that good.

 

You say that the team is doing a good job of securing "young talent in the right places." But "young" is not necessarily good. It's young, that's all. So when you say "could be Pro Bowlers," yeah, could be. So too could everyone that we release between now and September and cuts to the 53-man roster. But with this team's personnel department track record, how many Pro Bowlers have they actually produced? Not many and few of the ones they have have been entirely by accident or out of position and not due to planning on their end; Peters, McGee, Moorman.

 

But again, we pay too much for what we do get. Many don't want to see that here and make excuses for it. You've admitted it with Kelsay, but if it's true with Kelsay then it's true with Walker and Dockery. We clearly paid too much for Peerless Price two years ago. Butlet got more money than he's proven to be worth at the moment. We're taking a big gamble that Spencer Johnson will reward us with play commensurate with what he got. Kyle Williams got too much by everyone's standard.

 

Meanwhile, Peters, a proven commodity and top half LT in this league, and in a position that is critical to the success of any offense, gets snubbed. And yet again, it would be entirely different if we drafted him as the 1st round talent LT that he is and he were still riding a rookie contract or if he had signed an extension with his abilities as a top LT in this league fully known, but that wasn't the case.

 

McGee was in a similar spot years ago. He wasn't playing well as a CB but his return abilities warranted his getting paid much more. We gave it to him. Peters we simply didn't know what he would attain to. Well now we know, and since this is a very rare exception in this way, the team needs to address it.

 

Having said all that, if the team doesn't have money now then fine, whip something up in a show of good faith with incentives for this season that come out of next season's cap and offer to restructure him this offseason. As I understand it however the team is playing hard ball. And this would all be fine and good, but with the silly contracts that Butler and Kyle Williams just got as a team priority, and recently, that's a real kick in the balls of Peters IMO. We could lose both Williams and Butler right now for the season and it wouldn't have the impact of Peters missing ten games.

[BUFFALOTONE]

I can only go by what's reported or said, I don't like to speculate. But listen to RB on WGR, here's the link:

 

Link

 

It sounds like they are working to get this deal done. I have not lost hope, but they do need to get it done before the season starts...

 

I really hope so to, youd just figure they would have tried to get this thing sewn up by now. With the additions weve made on the offense losing Lee is a massive step back. The guy is not a complainer and does his job.

[Billadelphia]

Well now at least you're making some F-ing sense. LOL

 

Yes, the FO of the Pats is to be emulated. Instead, we continue to emulate the crap that we've had and hire according to that standard and not theirs, the Chargers', the Colts', Giants', etc.

 

So attaboy! Keep thinking along those lines.

 

My guess is that you're the type of person who will never be happy, even though you'll respond to this that you are.

 

I'll be happy when we finally have a team that can beat other football teams in the NFL by playing football the way it was meant to be played and on fundamentally sound play with the strength of two great lines just like we had in the '90s.

 

If you're happy bringing up the rear of the league in everything and having to rely on enough crappy teams on our schedule so that we can post a winning season, then good for you. Please don't challenge me for wanting more from my team though. Talk about tirades. LOL

 

So keep up the tirade and see how many sympathetic souls you'll find here. I completely understand that you're frustrated with the lack of production that we've seen the past few years, but being a complete d*ck on a message board won't change the situation.

 

I don't care about sympathy. Everyone else's low standards don't affect me. I see things a little differently than you however. What I see is people coming down on me and other fans similar to me with comparable views, being chastised for wanting to correct the issues on the team that continually bring us all "pile of sh--" performance and telling us to like it or shut up.

 

I ask you, where do the issues really lie? LOL

 

I get classified as "a dick" more because most of you that challenge the notions that I/we put forth simply have no answers and as you see it we should just suck up mediocrity if we even get that, slop performance otherwise.

 

I would strongly suggest that the ones with the major issues are the ones that keep making excuses for this crap and have no higher standards that call the performance of the very team that they say they want to excel into question when it's fully known why they suck due to an extensive proven track record of misery.

 

But hey, it'll be funny as usual how you and others turn into what you accuse me of by week 12 but then at that point it will be fully acceptible by your standards, huh.

 

I want to know where the open letters to Wilson are to fire Modrak? Or John Guy? Or why we once again hire a GM and OC with absolutely no experience between them?

 

I suppose that means you enjoy all that and what it produces.

 

It's sort of like a marriage, good times & bad.

 

Not really. In a marriage it's a partnership with both parties equally responsible. Here it's the team insisting that you suck up whatever they push your way. You have absolutely no input other than say what you say here. And it seems to me that if this is a marriage, then your spouse is cheating on you and all you're doing is making excuses as to why the reason for it is you and why you should put up with it for another 20 years. Right. Yup, exactly it.

 

And here's the kicker, you are happy with it, .... apparently. Otherwise I can't explain it.

 

The way I see it, and the way you come off, is that you're just plain miserable. It isn't that I don't agree with you about the points that you're making, it's that you make it 15 times every day. It's an annoyance to everyone. You're the type of person you just want to grab and scream in their face to STFU!

 

Make your point, defend it if you must, but don't monopolize everyones time by making the same old point repeatedly day after day. We get it. You don't like the way the team is performing and you feel that the front office is making poor personnel decisions. No need to shout it from the mountaintop all day, every day.

[krazykat]

What's your source on these numbers?

LOL

[elegantelliotoffen]

LOL

 

That's what I thought.

[BUFFALOTONE]

Thanks for a civil non defensive response. It's refreshing.

 

I highlighted a key phrase for you in your response. Otherwise once again I will clarify.

 

I said nothing about the caliber of players we are signing per se, rather the money they get for what they are. You say the Kelsay signing was bad in agreement with me. But he's one of the better performing players of the ones I've mentioned. Brad Butler has shown nothing indicative that he's even playing to Kelsay's level. See, we can all say, "did you seem him play last year, he was good,..." etc. But the fact of the matter is that the play of our offense sucked and the line was obviously at the heart of it. We know that Peters is good, we know that Dockery is an above average G although little more. The line wouldn't have been so bad if Butler had been that good.

 

You say that the team is doing a good job of securing "young talent in the right places." But "young" is not necessarily good. It's young, that's all. So when you say "could be Pro Bowlers," yeah, could be. So too could everyone that we release between now and September and cuts to the 53-man roster. But with this team's personnel department track record, how many Pro Bowlers have they actually produced? Not many and few of the ones they have have been entirely by accident or out of position and not due to planning on their end; Peters, McGee, Moorman.

 

But again, we pay too much for what we do get. Many don't want to see that here and make excuses for it. You've admitted it with Kelsay, but if it's true with Kelsay then it's true with Walker and Dockery. We clearly paid too much for Peerless Price two years ago. Butlet got more money than he's proven to be worth at the moment. We're taking a big gamble that Spencer Johnson will reward us with play commensurate with what he got. Kyle Williams got too much by everyone's standard.

 

Meanwhile, Peters, a proven commodity and top half LT in this league, and in a position that is critical to the success of any offense, gets snubbed. And yet again, it would be entirely different if we drafted him as the 1st round talent LT that he is and he were still riding a rookie contract or if he had signed an extension with his abilities as a top LT in this league fully known, but that wasn't the case.

 

McGee was in a similar spot years ago. He wasn't playing well as a CB but his return abilities warranted his getting paid much more. We gave it to him. Peters we simply didn't know what he would attain to. Well now we know, and since this is a very rare exception in this way, the team needs to address it.

 

Having said all that, if the team doesn't have money now then fine, whip something up in a show of good faith with incentives for this season that come out of next season's cap and offer to restructure him this offseason. As I understand it however the team is playing hard ball. And this would all be fine and good, but with the silly contracts that Butler and Kyle Williams just got as a team priority, and recently, that's a real kick in the balls of Peters IMO. We could lose both Williams and Butler right now for the season and it wouldn't have the impact of Peters missing ten games.

 

See your point. But Butler was a solid RG last year and shows that he can be there for the long haul. Our real problem was at Center and QB, its real hard to run a balanced offense when you have 1 real weapon and a green QB. That weapon is always double covered too. I agree with the Peters argument and I understand his perspective, "I am LT I made the Pro Bowl, Pay me!" Thats his arguement and a damn good one. But the guy has 3 years left to play. Wo actually knows whats really going on, the Bills FO could be stonewalling him. All they know is we paid you get your azz here.

 

Im sorry but Kelsay isnt worth the jock strap he puts on. Until this guy really steps up and plays to his full potential the Bills got hosed. Watching him get beat by every RT in the game is beyond disheartning.

[BUFFALOTONE]

The way I see it, and the way you come off, is that you're just plain miserable. It isn't that I don't agree with you about the points that you're making, it's that you make it 15 times every day. It's an annoyance to everyone. You're the type of person you just want to grab and scream in their face to STFU!

 

Make your point, defend it if you must, but don't monopolize everyones time by making the same old point repeatedly day after day. We get it. You don't like the way the team is performing and you feel that the front office is making poor personnel decisions. No need to shout it from the mountaintop all day, every day.

 

Dude its a message board, if you cant do it hear then where?

[Kelly the Dog]

That's what I thought.

Takes two seconds to look it up.

How much does each team have to spend against the NFL Salary Cap?

 

Answer: In 2005, it was set at $85.5 Million. Last year it was originally set to be approximately $94.5 Million. However, an extension to the CBA brought with it a new formula, which saw an expansion to approximately $102 Million. The cap in 2007 was $109 Million. In 2008 it looks to be approximately $116,729,000.

So, from 2005 when it was 86 million, to 2008, when it is $117 million, there is an enormous jump of $31 mil in four years. Well over 20%.

http://www.askthecommish.com/salarycap/faq.asp

[krazykat]

The way I see it, and the way you come off, is that you're just plain miserable. It isn't that I don't agree with you about the points that you're making, it's that you make it 15 times every day. It's an annoyance to everyone. You're the type of person you just want to grab and scream in their face to STFU!

 

Make your point, defend it if you must, but don't monopolize everyones time by making the same old point repeatedly day after day. We get it. You don't like the way the team is performing and you feel that the front office is making poor personnel decisions. No need to shout it from the mountaintop all day, every day.

Well then conversely, how about people responding to me at least having the F-ing respect to read what I already wrote so that I don't feel impelled to answer the same F-ing questions over and over again or run the risks of the dogs of hell being unleashed on me calling me names in real mature fashion. I realize that's probably totally unreasonable in your book.

 

You'll quickly note that people that respond in a civil manner to my posts get the same in return.

 

And hell, I had one person in this thread I think, charge me with calling him a name when that wasn't even the case. I mean honestly, are some of you so damned miserable yourselves that even the slightest hint of a criticism about a team throws you off like that?

[john]

Well then conversely, how about people responding to me at least having the F-ing respect to read what I already wrote so that I don't feel impelled to answer the same F-ing questions over and over again or run the risks of the dogs of hell being unleashed on me calling me names in real mature fashion. I realize that's probably totally unreasonable in your book.

 

You'll quickly note that people that respond in a civil manner to my posts get the same in return.

 

And hell, I had one person in this thread I think, charge me with calling him a name when that wasn't even the case. I mean honestly, are some of you so damned miserable yourselves that even the slightest hint of a criticism about a team throws you off like that?

 

 

Hey, one more post and you hit 1000!! Make it a good one man. And for the record, I both agree and disagree with several things that you have to say and I appreciate your perspective on this subject.

[krazykat]

Its sad but I agree with you that this is probably Lee's last season as Bill. If they wanted to get something done it would have happened by now. With the money WR's are getting on the open market I can see him out the door. While you do make osme solid points I disagree with the fact that the Fo is signing mediocre talent. They all cnat be game breakers but they are doing a great job of securing young talent in the right places. Who knows half these guys could be Pro Bowlers 2 years from now and we could have got them on the cheap, you dont know that.

 

kelsay argument is dead on, this guy needs to earn his pay or be released. He has been terrible.

 

Peters will be in camp, he will not sit out and they will do something similar to what Urlacher did.

Hey Bufflaotone,

 

I was thinking here, but in summary what I would say regarding this is the following:

 

Put yourself in Peters' shoes. He comes here as an UFA and plays his heart out and works his way up the ladder to not only playing LT and anchoring the entire line for the most part, but does it in grand fashion to the extent of making a Pro Bowl and among the team's few PB players, and establishes himself as one of the best at his position in Buffalo on a team with few if any other players besides special teamers playing to his level at their positions.

 

He then sees players like Dockery, Walker, Williams, Kelsay, Schobel, all get more than he does by a wide margin in most cases. He also sees players like Brad Butler, Melvin Fowler, Kyle Williams, Spencer Johnson, Kawika Mitchell, Robert Royal, Josh Reed get comparable or close to what he's getting although not one of them has been known for putting up anything close to what he's gotten and many are only proven backups or entirely lackluster starters.

 

Then throw in contracts about the same for players like Peerless Price, Larry Tripplett, Bennie Anderson who busted while they were here.

 

So while he's here he sees all of this, and watches the team throw money around this year and recently for players that may not even start.

 

To all, what is he supposed to think?

 

He's supposed to play out the remaining three years and most of his prime just to honor his contract?

 

I don't think so. The team owes it to him to at least get a good faith gesture on the table with a promise of doing something big after the season.

[krazykat]

Hey, one more post and you hit 1000!! Make it a good one man. And for the record, I both agree and disagree with several things that you have to say and I appreciate your perspective on this subject.

Thanks John. Most people capable of independent thought usually do.

 

1,001

 

[MarkAF43]

I don't think so. The team owes it to him to at least get a good faith gesture on the table with a promise of doing something big after the season.

 

 

My only question, how can the team do it if Peters or his agent have made no efforts to contact or discuss it?

[Billadelphia]

Well then conversely, how about people responding to me at least having the F-ing respect to read what I already wrote so that I don't feel impelled to answer the same F-ing questions over and over again or run the risks of the dogs of hell being unleashed on me calling me names in real mature fashion. I realize that's probably totally unreasonable in your book.

 

You'll quickly note that people that respond in a civil manner to my posts get the same in return.

 

And hell, I had one person in this thread I think, charge me with calling him a name when that wasn't even the case. I mean honestly, are some of you so damned miserable yourselves that even the slightest hint of a criticism about a team throws you off like that?

 

Thats fair. I just think that people would read what you write a little more in depth if it were 1 post instead of 15 posts spread over 2 topics.

Like I said, more than half the time, I probably agree with you and am as frustrated as you are with the Bills and how they handle things. I guess that it's just a difference in how we handle that.

[MarkyMannn]

I for one would like to see Peters play at a pro bowl level for an entire season for more then ONE FREAKING YEAR before I go out and break the bank on him.

 

FREAKING BINGO!!! What is JP the next coming of Pace and Munoz? Lets see it

[john]

Thats fair. I just think that people would read what you write a little more in depth if it were 1 post instead of 15 posts spread over 2 topics.

Like I said, more than half the time, I probably agree with you and am as frustrated as you are with the Bills and how they handle things. I guess that it's just a difference in how we handle that.

 

 

My biggest question regarding this topic is wether or not the information we are receiving is accurate. Have Peters and his agent not attempted to contact the Bills on the matter of a pay increase within the last several months, AND, is it the Bill's responsibility to pick up the phone and call Peters if he doesn't take the initiative to call them? What do you guys think?