Peters may be willing to sit all season

[MikeInABQ]

I heard from a reliable source that they spotted Peters hiding out in a cave in northern Pakistan.

[sven233]

If true, that would be pretty interesting but I haven't seen anything which shows what you assert to be true: that the team has committed to a large raise, has communicated that to him and placed just one contingency- that being to verify he is in playing condition.

 

Is there some article out there I have missed which says the team has agreed to pay him 8 million or more but just wants to verify his condition and he has refused? Just trying to sort out facts from guesses.

 

Brandon has stated on several occassions now that they would be willing to talk to Peters about a contract, but they insist that he come in to camp and start participating first.

 

But yes, they have stated they are willing to negotiate a new contract, but they said he has to show up first. I don't think that is such a terrible request.

[Mickey]

Have you actually been to practice and know for a fact Walker and Chambers are doing poorly? I don't believe it. I think it's the wishful thinking of Chicken Little fans that hope the sky falls on this franchise.

 

As for who has the leverage, I assure you it's the Bills. They will take their chances playing without Peters. What's Peters have? He has 3 years left on a contract. If he fails to report by August 8, then this season doesn't count. He still owes the Bills three years. He can sit out ten years and he will still owe the Bills 3 years, but he will owe the Bills millions in fines. In the meantime, what does all this sitting do for his value as an "elite" left tackle? This guy just came off surgery and he won't let his team take a look at him? Is he hiding something?

 

Peters may still be injured and he's trying to scam the Bills into a fat contract with a big guarantee. All I can say is I'm glad we have people like Brandon running the Bills, not some of the panic-stricken pansies who wet their drawers when a player makes a threat. Peters is screwing himself. The Bills are 100% in the right here. If Peters wants a new deal...just show up. That's why I think he's still injured.

 

PTR

Any idea what the track record is on a player ever having to actually pay any of those fines once the matter is resolved? I am thinking it hovers around zero. When he does work it out with the Bills, clause 1 will waive those fines, clause 2 will pay him what he missed during the hold out. If he ultimately ends up elsewhere, the new team will pay his fines assuming they don't get waived when appealed, which they will be and they will give him the back pay too.

 

Peters is not screwing himself. He will either get a better deal now or end up playing for the same $ he would have had he not taken a stab at a new deal. What the Bills lose will be the services of this player the instant he is able to walk. So if you want this guy for the next 2 years, fine, play hard ball. He'll come back, play out his contract and then go be an all pro for someone else for the next 5 years after that. Brilliant strategy, for the next team he plays for.

 

Has the team made any public comment expressing concern about his injury or his recovery?

[PromoTheRobot]

Any idea what the track record is on a player ever having to actually pay any of those fines once the matter is resolved? I am thinking it hovers around zero. When he does work it out with the Bills, clause 1 will waive those fines, clause 2 will pay him what he missed during the hold out. If he ultimately ends up elsewhere, the new team will pay his fines assuming they don't get waived when appealed, which they will be and they will give him the back pay too.

 

Peters is not screwing himself. He will either get a better deal now or end up playing for the same $ he would have had he not taken a stab at a new deal. What the Bills lose will be the services of this player the instant he is able to walk. So if you want this guy for the next 2 years, fine, play hard ball. He'll come back, play out his contract and then go be an all pro for someone else for the next 5 years after that. Brilliant strategy, for the next team he plays for.

 

Has the team made any public comment expressing concern about his injury or his recovery?

Nobody will pay Peters elite LT money if he misses a year or more sitting out. The Bills said they will renegotiate with Peters AFTER he reports to camp.

 

What is so hard for the naysayers to understand here? The Bills are willing to pay Peters what he deserves, but he still refuses to even talk to the team. WTF is that all about? That's why I think there's something else going on like his groin isn't healed.

 

PTR

[krazykat]

Nobody will pay Peters elite LT money if he misses a year or more sitting out. The Bills said they will renegotiate with Peters AFTER he reports to camp.

 

What is so hard for the naysayers to understand here? The Bills are willing to pay Peters what he deserves, but he still refuses to even talk to the team. WTF is that all about? That's why I think there's something else going on like his groin isn't healed.

 

PTR

Why did the Bills restructure Butler before camp began with two years remaining on his contract? Now I realize that Butler means so much more to this team than Peters does, is that your argument now too?

 

How about Williams with one season left? Is he that meaningful to us? I can see him released after the season if he can't start.

 

And you want to know what's so hard to understand?

 

I haven't seen anything that states that Peters/Parker are unwilling to talk. I only see that they're unwilling to talk at camp. I don't see Brandon leaving the comforts of camps to do his best to reach out either.

[Mickey]

Nobody will pay Peters elite LT money if he misses a year or more sitting out. The Bills said they will renegotiate with Peters AFTER he reports to camp.

 

What is so hard for the naysayers to understand here? The Bills are willing to pay Peters what he deserves, but he still refuses to even talk to the team. WTF is that all about? That's why I think there's something else going on like his groin isn't healed.

 

PTR

I have been through all of Brandon's quotes and I am sorry but that is not what he said. They said they expect him to honor the commitment he made two years ago. They said, with regard to renegotiating, that they would "never say never" and that they "wouldn't be opposed to discussing it". That is nowhere near a commitment to renegotiating a hefty raise. Quite the opposite. Besides, why on earth can't they negotiate a contract without him in camp??? Every hold out that ends in a contract ended because they negotiated despite the player's absence. That is a ridiculous condition. They all have cell phones and it is the agent who negotiates, not the player.

 

Everyone assumes the team wants to pay him but golly gee they can't because he won't come to camp. Does it make sense that the team is willing to part with millions more cash but by god, what they won't do is send the check, he has to come and get it or no deal? The problem isn't the current whereabouts of Jason Peters. The problem is he wants more money, and sooner, than the team wants to pay. They won't pay him and he won't come. For now, that is the deal until someone blinks.

[scribo]

Why did the Bills restructure Butler before camp began with two years remaining on his contract? Now I realize that Butler means so much more to this team than Peters does, is that your argument now too?

 

How about Williams with one season left? Is he that meaningful to us? I can see him released after the season if he can't start.

 

And you want to know what's so hard to understand?

 

I haven't seen anything that states that Peters/Parker are unwilling to talk. I only see that they're unwilling to talk at camp. I don't see Brandon leaving the comforts of camps to do his best to reach out either.

Butler came to all the OTA and mini-camps. Peters didn't. This thread, all 21 pages of it, has quoted the Bills over and over and over again saying they won't talk about a new contract for Peters until he comes to camp. There is no reason for Brandon to leave "the comforts of camp" to talk to Peters or his agent. Peters is not a free agent the Bills are trying to recruit. They already have him under contract. Peters is in breach of contract right now and is being held financially liable for that now. Peters will cave in due time, so feel free to relax.

[krazykat]

Butler came to all the OTA and mini-camps. Peters didn't. This thread, all 21 pages of it, has quoted the Bills over and over and over again saying they won't talk about a new contract for Peters until he comes to camp. There is no reason for Brandon to leave "the comforts of camp" to talk to Peters or his agent. Peters is not a free agent the Bills are trying to recruit. They already have him under contract. Peters is in breach of contract right now and is being held financially liable for that now. Peters will cave in due time, so feel free to relax.

Oh I see, so show up to minicamp and any mediocre and completely unproven player and 5th round draft pick with only one season of questionable starting that was part of one of the worst lines in football automatically gets to redo a deal with two seasons remaining.

 

Logical. /sarcasm

 

Otherwise you make good sense, but at the same time, is Brandon really in a position to be playing with fire here? IMO both sides are wrong, but the team has far more to lose. It's teetering on the edge of yet another coaching staff replacement and fans and media coming down hard on what may fast be shaping up as a continuation of "business as usual" regarding the playoffs and us not being in them.

 

Hardy's got hamstring issues and isn't really doing much otherwise suggestive of notions like so many here have that he's gonna be all that and then some this year.

 

Steve Johnson's out with a knee injury. Our OL situation speaks for itself. Does anyone have hopes for the season if we go into it with Chambers at one T spot? This line didn't play well last year as a whole with Peters.

 

If this team goes anything less than 8-8 and any of it has to do with Peters not being here, people, both media and fans, are going to start trashing Brandon, Jauron, and everything else that walks into OBD and it's going to be led from right here.

 

It's an ugly situation, but after the semi-retarded money that Brandon's been throwing around to players like Williams, Johnson, and Butler while not even apparently considering either Peters or Evans, he's gonna be on the hotseat too if the team doesn't perform. Just like all of his predecessors here, he's probably just assuming we'll have a winning season. But little from camp is suggesting that much has changed other than our front 7 from the presence of Stroud and that alone isn't going to carry this team to a winning season.

[krazykat]

Butler came to all the OTA and mini-camps. Peters didn't.

Peters has also made a Pro Bowl while Butler hasn't even proven that he'd have a starting job on a team with even average competition at the RG spot.

 

Also, you're forgetting Evans too. He's playing by the rules and has given this team more than Butler, Johnson, and Williams combined and the team still hasn't redone his deal. So this stuff about if Peters shows up Brandon will redo his contract is nonsense and I think that Peters and Parker know that.

[scribo]

Peters has also made a Pro Bowl while Butler hasn't even proven that he'd have a starting job on a team with even average competition at the RG spot.

 

Also, you're forgetting Evans too. He's playing by the rules and has given this team more than Butler, Johnson, and Williams combined and the team still hasn't redone his deal. So this stuff about if Peters shows up Brandon will redo his contract is nonsense and I think that Peters and Parker know that.

You do not know what is going on between Evans and the Bills, so don't pretend to. There is always a good chance that the player wants more than the team feels the player is worth or there may be differences in the length of a contract. It really is funny how so many fans assume that because a deal isn't already done that the team isn't making an effort. Evans has said a few times now that talks are ongoing.

[scribo]

Oh I see, so show up to minicamp and any mediocre and completely unproven player and 5th round draft pick with only one season of questionable starting that was part of one of the worst lines in football automatically gets to redo a deal with two seasons remaining.

 

Logical. /sarcasm

 

Otherwise you make good sense, but at the same time, is Brandon really in a position to be playing with fire here? IMO both sides are wrong, but the team has far more to lose. It's teetering on the edge of yet another coaching staff replacement and fans and media coming down hard on what may fast be shaping up as a continuation of "business as usual" regarding the playoffs and us not being in them.

 

Hardy's got hamstring issues and isn't really doing much otherwise suggestive of notions like so many here have that he's gonna be all that and then some this year.

 

Steve Johnson's out with a knee injury. Our OL situation speaks for itself. Does anyone have hopes for the season if we go into it with Chambers at one T spot? This line didn't play well last year as a whole with Peters.

 

If this team goes anything less than 8-8 and any of it has to do with Peters not being here, people, both media and fans, are going to start trashing Brandon, Jauron, and everything else that walks into OBD and it's going to be led from right here.

 

It's an ugly situation, but after the semi-retarded money that Brandon's been throwing around to players like Williams, Johnson, and Butler while not even apparently considering either Peters or Evans, he's gonna be on the hotseat too if the team doesn't perform. Just like all of his predecessors here, he's probably just assuming we'll have a winning season. But little from camp is suggesting that much has changed other than our front 7 from the presence of Stroud and that alone isn't going to carry this team to a winning season.

While you may believe Butler is "mediocre and completely unproven," for some krazy reason, you aren't paid by the Bills to evaluate players. Obviously, their scouts believe this guy is worth keeping around. I suppose you would rather they wait until he does prove himself and can then demand a bigger contract, then potentially losing a proven veteran.

 

Of course, signing Butler now really wouldn't mean anything if you were the GM because as soon as he proves himself, even after the team took a chance and gave him a nice contract just on the potential they saw in him, you would gladly fly to wherever he wanted to you to so you could give him more money.

 

Yes, once again, as has been shown numerous times in this very long thread, Brandon is in a great position to stand up to Peters right now.

[krazykat]

While you may believe Butler is "mediocre and completely unproven," for some krazy reason, you aren't paid by the Bills to evaluate players. Obviously, their scouts believe this guy is worth keeping around. I suppose you would rather they wait until he does prove himself and can then demand a bigger contract, then potentially losing a proven veteran.

 

Of course, signing Butler now really wouldn't mean anything if you were the GM because as soon as he proves himself, even after the team took a chance and gave him a nice contract just on the potential they saw in him, you would gladly fly to wherever he wanted to you to so you could give him more money.

 

Yes, once again, as has been shown numerous times in this very long thread, Brandon is in a great position to stand up to Peters right now.

You know, I think that what the team says lost meaning years ago.

 

Obviously their scouts believe that this guy (Butler) is worth keeping around. Unfortunately they're the same exact scouts that told us how good Nall, Tripplett, Price, Reyes, Bennie Anderson, Mike Gandy, Troy Vincent, Lawyer Milloy, Drew Bledsoe, Willis McGahee, and the list just goes on and on would also be.

 

Again, you miss my point over your apparent dislike for me, because I can't find any other reason. If Peters walks as a result of this, fairly or unfairly, right or wrong, for good reason or bad, are you going to be saying at least we locked Kyle Williams and Brad Butler up? Or are you going to be thinking that the club could have done more to keep one of the most up and coming LTs in the league on board at perhaps the most critical offensive position?

 

And while you probably join the minions that think that this team is going to make the playoffs this year, suppose we don't, suppose we only finish 5-11. What happens to Brandon and Jauron then? You really think they're gonna have continued support? If not, then what? Would it be good for this franchise?

 

Yes, Brandon does have the upper hand from a negotiating standpoint but from that standpoint only. BUT, he has nothing on the back end. This team absolutely must put up a winning season this year and that's dicey already with Peters in the lineup. Vegas agrees with an O/U at 7.5. Without Peters I don't see us having a chance. We're definitely not hearing the kinds of things about either Hardy or Johnson so far that would indicate that the league should be put on notice here.

 

Why is this so seemingly complicated for everyone to understand? Perhaps an analogy.

 

You are in your Ford Echo. You are approaching a 4-way stop. You come to a complete stop with no other cars around but a dump truck approaching that clearly for one reason or another has absolutely no intention of stopping. You reason to yourself that you have the right-of-way, and YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! You do have the right-of-way. It's your right to move through the intersection legally.

 

So you decide to exercise it and get T-boned by the dump truck that ran the stop sign. I'll leave imagining the results of that to you and will even state that the driver of the truck was charged with reckless endangerment and went to prison for 20 years.

 

Good move and exercising of your right-of-way on your part or not?

 

As to Butler, he's had one year of starting with no other real play and that was on a team that had league worst offensive performance pretty much no matter how you decide to carve it up. So again, I say show me why Butler is good based on the results where you can't and can only point what people that couldn't have been more wrong in the past say.

[scribo]

There is so much here I need to respond line by line.

You know, I think that what the team says lost meaning years ago.

I have to ask then, why are you still a fan?

 

Obviously their scouts believe that this guy (Butler) is worth keeping around. Unfortunately they're the same exact scouts that told us how good Nall, Tripplett, Price, Reyes, Bennie Anderson, Mike Gandy, Troy Vincent, Lawyer Milloy, Drew Bledsoe, Willis McGahee, and the list just goes on and on would also be.

But aren't they the same scouts who told the team to get Peters, Evans, Mooreman, Whitner, Poz, Lynch, McGee, Dockery, Stroud, Jackson...?

 

Again, you miss my point over your apparent dislike for me, because I can't find any other reason. If Peters walks as a result of this, fairly or unfairly, right or wrong, for good reason or bad, are you going to be saying at least we locked Kyle Williams and Brad Butler up? Or are you going to be thinking that the club could have done more to keep one of the most up and coming LTs in the league on board at perhaps the most critical offensive position?

Uh, I don't know you so I cannot dislike you. Just because I don't see the logic in a particular opinion of yours doesn't mean I have any personal opinion of you. Don't take it personal; it's just football.

 

Peters isn't going to "walk." He is under contract. If he sits out until Week 10 or whatever it is and then repeats this next year, yes it will be a huge waste for all parties involved, which is exactly why that won't happen. Peters will cave, and the Bills know it. I bet Peters is starting to realize that, too.

 

And while you probably join the minions that think that this team is going to make the playoffs this year, suppose we don't, suppose we only finish 5-11. What happens to Brandon and Jauron then? You really think they're gonna have continued support? If not, then what? Would it be good for this franchise?

A 5-11 season this year would be disasterous, no doubt. Yes, Jauron would be out. Brandon would likely stay on but in a lesser capacity. That would be a terrible thing for the franchise's future. To get to what I think is your point, I don't think this hold out is going to make the Bills go 5-11. Peters will be playing opening day, I am sure.

 

Yes, Brandon does have the upper hand from a negotiating standpoint but from that standpoint only. BUT, he has nothing on the back end. This team absolutely must put up a winning season this year and that's dicey already with Peters in the lineup. Vegas agrees with an O/U at 7.5. Without Peters I don't see us having a chance. We're definitely not hearing the kinds of things about either Hardy or Johnson so far that would indicate that the league should be put on notice here.

First, lets address the Vegas line. Despite what so many here seem to think, that is not Vegas' prediction of how a team will do. The line is set where Vegas predict a roughly even number of gamblers will feel comfortable to bet. So, really, that means the average betting fan think the Bills will end up at season's end, not the actual opinion of book makers.

 

Second, I think those who expect huge things out of Hardy and especially Johnson don't study this game nearly enough. Rookie WRs are notorious for getting off to much slower starts than rookies at most other positions. It is just the nature of the positon. That said, we haven't even had a single pre-season game yet, so don't jump out of the boat yet.

 

Why is this so seemingly complicated for everyone to understand? Perhaps an analogy.

 

You are in your Ford Echo. You are approaching a 4-way stop. You come to a complete stop with no other cars around but a dump truck approaching that clearly for one reason or another has absolutely no intention of stopping. You reason to yourself that you have the right-of-way, and YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY CORRECT! You do have the right-of-way. It's your right to move through the intersection legally.

 

So you decide to exercise it and get T-boned by the dump truck that ran the stop sign. I'll leave imagining the results of that to you and will even state that the driver of the truck was charged with reckless endangerment and went to prison for 20 years.

 

Good move and exercising of your right-of-way on your part or not?

Your analogy doesn't suck. But the Bills aren't a Ford Echo. While they have much safer vehicle than you are giving them credit for, it certainly would hurt if they get t-boned, as you put it. But that dump truck driver (Peters) has whole lot of reasons to veer off before hitting anything.

 

As to Butler, he's had one year of starting with no other real play and that was on a team that had league worst offensive performance pretty much no matter how you decide to carve it up. So again, I say show me why Butler is good based on the results where you can't and can only point what people that couldn't have been more wrong in the past say.

Again, I will ask why you are ignoring the good calls the Bills' scouts have made in the past. No team has prefected player evaluations, every player is a risk. Good teams learn how to manage those risks so that they can collect when they pay off -- that's what the Bills want to do with Peters.

[K-9]

...As to Butler, he's had one year of starting with no other real play and that was on a team that had league worst offensive performance pretty much no matter how you decide to carve it up. So again, I say show me why Butler is good based on the results where you can't and can only point what people that couldn't have been more wrong in the past say....

 

Careful there, sport. You're coming close to nullifying your own arguments regarding Peters with the same argument you are using to knock the Bills for extending Butler.

 

I don't think you have much of a clue about offensive line play. Suffice to say, Butler had a VERY good year last year. One of the reasons we were more sucessful running to the right side, BTW.

 

There's also a lot to be said for Oline cohesion. It's key. Locking up a starter long term is a good thing. Especially one with lots of upside and who's deal will soon seem cheap in the coming years.

 

You really should review every game Butler played last year and focus SOLELY on him. Of course we're missing the context of the play call and everyone's responsibility on that play. We're also missing coaching tape from the endzone view which is helpful when analyzing gaps among other things. But even with the TV tape it's not hard to see that Butler played well last season.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[LynchMob23]

From the article on the main page:

 

http://www.buffalonews.com/sports/billsnfl/story/405179.html

 

"What is unusual in Peters’ case is the silent treatment he is giving the Bills. He hasn’t replied to any text messages or voice mails left by team officials and he’s had very little contact with his teammates."

 

For krazykat and all those who think the Bills are "being immature" by not communicating, they've tried and Peters and his agent are stone-walling them. What do you want the brass to do now, show up at his front door with flowers and a box of candy?

[krazykat]

Careful there, sport. You're coming close to nullifying your own arguments regarding Peters with the same argument you are using to knock the Bills for extending Butler.

 

I don't think you have much of a clue about offensive line play. Suffice to say, Butler had a VERY good year last year. One of the reasons we were more sucessful running to the right side, BTW.

 

There's also a lot to be said for Oline cohesion. It's key. Locking up a starter long term is a good thing. Especially one with lots of upside and who's deal will soon seem cheap in the coming years.

 

You really should review every game Butler played last year and focus SOLELY on him. Of course we're missing the context of the play call and everyone's responsibility on that play. We're also missing coaching tape from the endzone view which is helpful when analyzing gaps among other things. But even with the TV tape it's not hard to see that Butler played well last season.

 

GO BILLS!!!

Deep sigh!

 

Sometimes I wonder. Actually no, I often wonder. And if I took your approach in this I'd retort with something along what your second comment was.

 

Let's look at Lynch's right side stats for a second. He averaged 5.1 both right side and right sideline. His two long runs last season, and only long runs really worth much in the breakaway department, were both 56-yarders. Do you remember those plays?

 

The first was in Cincinnati, that's the Bengals, so think about that in terms of defense for this discussion. It was very late in the game and very close otherwise and he had a poor game up to that point. He had lots of carries but didn't do much with them and I'm guessing now, but probabl averaged well below 4.0 ypc. Regardless, if you rewatch that play which you can do here, http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=2931...7&week=REG9, at the end of the video, you will obviously note that that run had almost nothing to do with blocking and just about everything to do with some of the worst defense and tackling that we've ever seen. First of all there was only one DB on that side. Second of all there was absolutely no surge by the OL and if anything the pocket collapsed. Three tacklers probably should have had Lynch wrapped up but couldn't get the job done and a lot of the credit for that goes to Lynch, not the line. Also you will note that once again there's a TE to that side. The play went to the left a little bit and the defense did too. But you're not going to get away with crediting the line on that play.

 

The next was in the Eagles game to end the season. You can watch that play here, http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter?game_id=2944...&week=REG17

 

Now I'm not gonna take anything from Butler, but Walker got pushed back on that play and got no surge whatsoever, Butler seemed to have a good block, but let's be honest here, the Bills had a motion blocker and a FB blocking for Lynch and the Eagles only had four men on the line. Butler didn't have to do much with the DT who was who, Mike Patterson maybe? Yeah, OK, good player maybe, but not great. And then what, Butler makes a good play to seal a block, but against who K-9? Chris Gocong? Omar Gaither? Does that impress you? Seriously, does it impress you? It was nothing special from Walker although it can be argued that he was supposed to collapse his man, who, Juqua Thomas? Hardly impressive defensive talent. Ever heard of him? Butler did what he had to do but there was two men of help over there too and to ignore that against a fourman front isn't honest in this debate.

 

So if you want to ignore all that in lecturing me on how great Lynch was to the right side and right sideline, feel free. But it isn't necessary to say I don't know what I'm talking about since I do. If you want to prove something to me, find all the footage of Butler and Walker busting holes open against the Pats, Jags, Pittsburgh, Dallas, and Jacksonville. And good luck with that. Else Lynch and our running game wasn't much better on the right side and right sideline than he was otherwise and overall he was below average in the league there too. And he had help all year like that to the right. But I don't know what I'm talking about though.

 

I'm still waiting from someone to tell me why if Lynch was very good, and he was for a rookie, Dockery, Peters, and Walker were all so good. Now you're telling us how Butler was so good. We had Evans in there too who's better than what most teams have. And Edwards who supposedly played well for a rookie too, why couldn't we score? You can't pin that all on Fairchild. If all those parts were that good, even if you telecast you play to the D you shouldn't be dead last in scoring. Hopefully we can agree on that although I'm not holding my breath.

 

Either way, it's those nuances that you look for if you want to know what your team is capable of doing. As to reviewing every game last year to see what Butler was doing, unless you're trying to prove to me that we have not much talent after him or beside him on offense, that's lame because if he were that great then we would have moved the ball and scored more. Our running game was pretty bad in most games and I can't think of one really good running day we or Lynch had against a good D, can you?

 

So if I were to agree with you, I suppose I would have to agree that all of our players are above average but as a unit they suck. I can't do that.