Peters may be willing to sit all season

[GG]

What's ridiculous is Kelsay's contract. As for taking a break, if dissenting opinions are no longer welcome then I certainly don't belong here.

 

Welcome to the broken record of internet discourse. People answered your moronic question about Kelsay. Sorry that your racial baiting mind can't wrap the ganglia around the right answer. Kelsay got the "outrageous" contract because he was A FRIGGIN UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT and the team wanted to keep a semblance of continuity on the DL. He got a going rate contract that he would get in free agency. His contract numbers are very similar to Aaron Kampman's numbers BEFORE he hit a few big years. Similarly, Bills extended Peters' contract before the Pro-Bowl and all world accolades, so in reality he had been underpaid for one year.

 

The major difference is that Peters has lived up to the team's expectations, but Kelsay hasn't yet. But to argue that Bills are racist because they won't redo Peters' contract for the second time just because Kelsay has underperformed his, is the epitome of moronia that is rarely in short supply in this space.

[MikeInABQ]

Do you work for the Bills?

 

I was pointing out that Schobel is white and Peters is black and that I am becoming suspect on the Bills dealings with minority players. You obviously need things spelled out don't you. So you DO work for the Bills!

When someone says something that they hope everyone will find funny, they put a after it. When they put a after something they write that is meant to hurt someone, they only show what an !@#$ they are. Just my opinion, of course.

 

It would be like me typing, "So, which of you and obie wan is Top and which is Bottom, " See my point? It's just mean.

[scribo]

Damn, I am so glad to log in this morning to find so any other jumped in on this "converstation" with 1billsfan. I believe he/she is racists and stupid, which is redundant, I know. Before you go get your baby sister to tell on me, 1billsfan, read your own posts. Further, try reading all the posts responding to your claims. Do you honestly believe everyone but you is wrong? I believe every single point you've attempted to make has been soundly defeated in this thread.

 

In case you missed the latest responses regarding your qestions/claims about Kelsay:

... As to why Kelsay makes so much.... well maybe its because they think he's worth it? I don't know just a thought. You may not, in fact, many posters may not. However, we don't make those decisions. If the FO likes him, perhaps for what he does on the field, perhaps for what he does in the locker room, perhaps for what he does to Mr. Wilson in a dark room, does it really matter? They paid him. But to suggest its because he's white is pretty just.. well racist.

 

 

...People answered your moronic question about Kelsay. Sorry that your racial baiting mind can't wrap the ganglia around the right answer. Kelsay got the "outrageous" contract because he was A FRIGGIN UNRESTRICTED FREE AGENT and the team wanted to keep a semblance of continuity on the DL. He got a going rate contract that he would get in free agency. His contract numbers are very similar to Aaron Kampman's numbers BEFORE he hit a few big years. Similarly, Bills extended Peters' contract before the Pro-Bowl and all world accolades, so in reality he had been underpaid for one year.

 

The major difference is that Peters has lived up to the team's expectations, but Kelsay hasn't yet...

[Ramius]

Terrence McGee and Roscoe Parrish want to know how come only the white guys get extensions as well.

 

One more question... was Jason Peters white 2 years ago when he signed his extension?

[1billsfan]

If what you presented was considered a "dissenting" opinion, then maybe every single person in the world wouldn't be calling you out for such a deep level of idiocy.

 

Instead, you seem to enjoy coming up with ridiculous comments in hopes of riling people up. And that's okay. Obie wan makes a living out of it, and you'd be in perfect company.

 

Here at the glass house TSW it's perfectly ok to hurl homophobic insults at those who are supportive of Losman, it's perfectly ok to make fun of hit and run victims. but to have questions and concerns over the lack of re-signing of the star minority Bills players it means that you have become the devil incarnate. I was hoping for a civil debate on a serious subject, but I guess that's only on the TSW mob's terms and conditions. Apparently they get to choose who and what is appropriate to be discussed. You get to say the most vile and nasty things at someone who's views you disagree with as long as your with the group. Is this seriously what we want?

 

Of those that were willing to discuss this subject, like the McGee and Parrish (average players) post mentioned above and in other posts, if they are the biggest minority stars that have been re-signed to new contracts for the Bills since Eric Moulds (who btw I consider the last big name minority player to cash in), then what does that say? They gave me McGee and Parrish and I gave them Clements, Winfield and Williams. I never said that the Bills were racists, look it up and prove it if you think otherwise. I did point out my concerns and questions regarding a disturbing trend in the Bills front office. If they re-sign Lee Evans (bigtime player) then my questions and concerns WILL go away, if they don't then it becomes an even bigger disturbing trend and in turn, concern in my view. Next time I'll just keep it to myself because I come over here for some fun discourse about my favorite team. Not getting into knockdown-dragouts with my fellow Bills fans.

[Chilly]

melodramatic much

[Ramius]

Here at the glass house TSW it's perfectly ok to hurl homophobic insults at those who are supportive of Losman, it's perfectly ok to make fun of hit and run victims. but to have questions and concerns over the lack of re-signing of the star minority Bills players it means that you have become the devil incarnate. I was hoping for a civil debate on a serious subject, but I guess that's only on the TSW mob's terms and conditions. Apparently they get to choose who and what is appropriate to be discussed. You get to say the most vile and nasty things at someone who's views you disagree with as long as your with the group. Is this seriously what we want?

 

Of those that were willing to discuss this subject, like the McGee and Parrish (average players) post mentioned above and in other posts, if they are the biggest minority stars that have been re-signed to new contracts for the Bills since Eric Moulds (who btw I consider the last big name minority player to cash in), then what does that say? They gave me McGee and Parrish and I gave them Clements, Winfield and Williams. I never said that the Bills were racists, look it up and prove it if you think otherwise. I did point out my concerns and questions regarding a disturbing trend in the Bills front office. If they re-sign Lee Evans (bigtime player) then my questions and concerns WILL go away, if they don't then it becomes an even bigger disturbing trend and in turn, concern in my view. Next time I'll just keep it to myself because I come over here for some fun discourse about my favorite team. Not getting into knockdown-dragouts with my fellow Bills fans.

 

Question: Name the last 3 players (non-rookies) the Bills have handed out large contracts to. And by large contracts we'll call the total value 40 million or higher.

 

Answer: Eric Moulds, Aaron Schobel, Derrick Dockery.

 

Yup, sure looks like the Bills are racist.

[GG]

Question: Name the last 3 players (non-rookies) the Bills have handed out large contracts to. And by large contracts we'll call the total value 40 million or higher.

 

Answer: Eric Moulds, Aaron Schobel, Derrick Dockery.

 

Yup, sure looks like the Bills are racist.

 

Ah, Cap't McGillicuddy, you're wrong. Dockery doesn't count because he wasn't a Bill before he signed. They're only racists when it comes to home grown talent.

 

If you recall from other discussions, if you throw out enough conflicting data, your stats will eventually prove your case.

[Lori]

Wasn't Ted Washington once the highest-paid defensive player in the league? And didn't he inherit that mantle from Bruce Smith ... who promptly demanded yet another renegotiation, with a return to the established "pecking order"?

[ricojes]

As some have suggested, I think you really need to take a break from the board and relax. You're going a little over the top here. It's one thing to suggest a race issue. Certainly all things are possible. However, its another thing all together to continue with the diatribe as though it's real. Let's face it, if any sports team was racists, they'd be out of the league (except hockey).

 

As to why Kelsay makes so much.... well maybe its because they think he's worth it? I don't know just a thought. You may not, in fact, many posters may not. However, we don't make those decisions. If the FO likes him, perhaps for what he does on the field, perhaps for what he does in the locker room, perhaps for what he does to Mr. Wilson in a dark room, does it really matter? They paid him. But to suggest its because he's white is pretty just.. well racist.

I agree 100%. I usually take a week or two hiatus to keep my sanity. If I start to become combative when others disagree with my posts, it's a good sign that I need to get away for a while. Take a break 1billsfan, it's only a forum of opinions....

[1billsfan]

Question: Name the last 3 players (non-rookies) the Bills have handed out large contracts to. And by large contracts we'll call the total value 40 million or higher.

 

Answer: Eric Moulds, Aaron Schobel, Derrick Dockery.

 

Yup, sure looks like the Bills are racist.

 

 

GG's right, I was only talking about homegrown talent since Moulds' big contract. They showed Schobel and Kelsay the money last year and they need to show Lee Evans his money soon for my concerns to go away. To me, it looks as if they wanted Clements, Winfield, Williams and now Evans to take major discounts when it came their turn. Either way, I deeply regret sharing my concerns in the matter.

[KD in CA]

GG's right, I was only talking about homegrown talent since Moulds' big contract. They showed Schobel and Kelsay the money last year and they need to show Lee Evans his money soon for my concerns to go away. To me, it looks as if they wanted Clements, Winfield, Williams and now Evans to take major discounts when it came their turn. Either way, I deeply regret sharing my concerns in the matter.

 

Care for some cheese to go with that whine?

 

Maybe if you'd like to have a 'discussion', you should lose the death grip on your absurd premise and examine each situation on its merits. You've yet to explain what exactly Lee Evans has done on the field to warrant a huge contract extension. Just how much money should he be paid for being black?

 

Maybe you can also give us a discussion on team economics and salary cap relative to an $80MM contract for a non-HOF caliber cornerback.

[scribo]

GG's right, I was only talking about homegrown talent since Moulds' big contract. They showed Schobel and Kelsay the money last year and they need to show Lee Evans his money soon for my concerns to go away. To me, it looks as if they wanted Clements, Winfield, Williams and now Evans to take major discounts when it came their turn. Either way, I deeply regret sharing my concerns in the matter.

Problematic is that you are only willing to consider the home-grown players in this, but that is that. Now, why does it look to you the Bills wanted or asked anyone to give major discounts? Rather, the Bills simply decided these players weren't going to be worth they money they'd get elsewhere. I stand by my opnion that race did not have anything to do with those choices, whether they were good or bad choices aside.

[GG]

GG's right, I was only talking about homegrown talent since Moulds' big contract. They showed Schobel and Kelsay the money last year and they need to show Lee Evans his money soon for my concerns to go away. To me, it looks as if they wanted Clements, Winfield, Williams and now Evans to take major discounts when it came their turn. Either way, I deeply regret sharing my concerns in the matter.

 

Way to continue massaging the data. Any reason that you used the last 6 years' of Bills free agent data to base your position? Did something happen to good ol Ralph since 2001 to make him dislike black Bills players (but like other team's black players)?

 

Or could it be more fundamental that you dislike Tom Donahoe's personnel moves, think that they had a racial angle to it and therefore, the whole team's approach to free agency is racist?

 

Making crappy personnel moves is not the same as racism, but I'm sure you've been told that.

[Ramius]

Care for some cheese to go with that whine?

 

Maybe if you'd like to have a 'discussion', you should lose the death grip on your absurd premise and examine each situation on its merits. You've yet to explain what exactly Lee Evans has done on the field to warrant a huge contract extension. Just how much money should he be paid for being black?

 

Maybe you can also give us a discussion on team economics and salary cap relative to an $80MM contract for a non-HOF caliber cornerback.

 

I'm sure badol and dawgg will be willing to whine in about clements.

[nobody]

Way to continue massaging the data. Any reason that you used the last 6 years' of Bills free agent data to base your position? Did something happen to good ol Ralph since 2001 to make him dislike black Bills players (but like other team's black players)?

 

Either Ralph's eyesite has gotten worse and he doesn't realize the guys on the other teams are black or he got the Lasik and now realizes that he has black players on his team?

[1billsfan]

Way to continue massaging the data. Any reason that you used the last 6 years' of Bills free agent data to base your position? Did something happen to good ol Ralph since 2001 to make him dislike black Bills players (but like other team's black players)?

 

Or could it be more fundamental that you dislike Tom Donahoe's personnel moves, think that they had a racial angle to it and therefore, the whole team's approach to free agency is racist?

 

Making crappy personnel moves is not the same as racism, but I'm sure you've been told that.

 

 

To me, it just seemed like Schobel and Kelsay had no problems whatsoever getting their big money deals. I don't understand why it always seems to become this long and drawn out act of contrition with the other Bills that I mentioned. Like I said, I'm sorry that I even mentioned my concern here. If they don't show Evans (who I think has HOF talent) his money then something is seriously wrong at One Bills Drive. Be it nefarious practices or not.

[Ramius]

To me, it just seemed like Schobel and Kelsay had no problems whatsoever getting their big money deals. I don't understand why it always seems to become this long and drawn out act of contrition with the other Bills that I mentioned. Like I said, I'm sorry that I even mentioned my concern here. If they don't show Evans (who I think has HOF talent) his money then something is seriously wrong at One Bills Drive. Be it nefarious practices or not.

 

I guess we can throw Kelsay out as a data point, because he was a week away from UFA when he was re-signed. So whats the difference between him and Dockery?

 

And why did the Bills extend Peters 2 years ago? He seemed to be as black as he is now back then.

[GG]

To me, it just seemed like Schobel and Kelsay had no problems whatsoever getting their big money deals. I don't understand why it always seems to become this long and drawn out act of contrition with the other Bills that I mentioned. Like I said, I'm sorry that I even mentioned my concern here. If they don't show Evans (who I think has HOF talent) his money then something is seriously wrong at One Bills Drive. Be it nefarious practices or not.

 

Too bad you don't take the same effort to analyze each case of alleged racial bias as you do whining about your mistreatment.

 

Then, perhaps you'll find that in the TD era (your selected timeframe) Bills had very few superstars to keep. But in the small sample, you should note:

 

- Winfield was deemed expendable because FA CBs command a lot of money, and Bills had a good young one ready to step up (who was black)

- Schobel was kept because it was a choice between him & Big Pat. Since Schobel was younger, there was no other viable DE on the roster and Bills thought that Edwards could step up the next year, Williams was deemed more expendable. (In restrospect a big error)

- We discussed why Kelsay was kept.

- Clements was not resigned because as the lone FA CB he was going to hit a home run in free agency, and if there is a truism about Ralph Wilson's tenure is that he does not pay anyone who's not a Pro-Bowl regular at the top of the pay scale. But that's his aversion to parting with the green, not the black color.

 

If you care to follow the news, there are discussions between Bills & Evans. The discussions are happening because Evans is in camp and is living up to the terms of his contract. If he decided to be an idiot and stay home, the team's reaction would be the same.

[2003Contenders]

Why are you people arguing over all of these race issues when the point isn't about race. It is about why the hell the Bills havent given Peters (no matter his race) a raise in sync with his performance? Butler, Fowler and Williams---underperforming stiffs---are getting raises and Peters isn't? Because he wants more money? Give him the damn money! If it will allow the Bills to win. He is the best LT in the NFL and we won't give him a raise? I would argue he is the glue to our entire offense and we won't appease him!? The Bills haven't gotten to the playoffs in 10 years and we won't give our best player a raise? What other team in our position would do that? Seriously. And you wonder why he is pissed off? He is pissed off because in the NFL this is what you are "supposed" to do. Maybe its not right, maybe it is, I don't care about the ethics, the point is, this is what happens in the NFL. And frankly, the Bills might appear to have the leverage because he is under contract for 3 years, but they lack total credibility in their cost benefit analysis when they sign players. In terms of judgment, I have little faith in the Bills. So I sincerely hope people stop talking about how the Bills are going to win this stare down. They might "techinically win", Peters might start playing half assed during the 6th week and the Bills will waive his fine. Or he might not. My point is that if the Bills go 8-8 and go one more year w/o the playoffs because the FO (with the support of the Bills fanbase) says NO to all of these "greedy athletes" then I will lose all faith in this franchise to make decisions.

 

 

The critical difference between Peters and all of these other guys who did get new deals is that all of the other guys made it a point to show up for the MANDATORY sessions. I believe that Peters made his point by skipping the voluntary OTAs. Then he should have shown up to the mandatory ones and specifically communicated his displeasure with his current contract situation. Perhaps then he could have gotten the ball rolling on a new deal. As it is now, he and his agent have lost valuable time and possibly generated some ill will. As it is, Peters has played one exceptional year at LT -- a year that was cut short by injury. For all we know, he is damaged goods, since he hasn't shown his face in months.

 

The timing here seems very strange to me, but that appears to be the paradigm for this Eugene Parker clown: Hester wanting elite WR money when he hasn't proven he can play the position yet, Steven Jackson holding out after an injury-riddled season, and Ryan Grant (who was a nobody prior to last season) claiming that the Packers have insulted him. Only one of these players got what he wanted -- and that was Hester, who actually reported to camp BEFORE the Bears buckled.