Here's a Question for you Edwards hopefuls

[Mickey]

Lots of talent on those Bears and Bills offenses huh?

Gee, and whose fault is that?

 

We did have an all pro LT, a top FA guard, a top tier WR and a top flight rookie RB. That is a lot more to work with than the Bills of the Dennis Shaw, Vince Ferragomo and Gary Marangi eras, yet even those pathetic offenses out performed Jauron's Juggernaut.

[Mikie2times]

Gee, and whose fault is that?

 

We did have an all pro LT, a top FA guard, a top tier WR and a top flight rookie RB. That is a lot more to work with than the Bills of the Dennis Shaw, Vince Ferragomo and Gary Marangi eras, yet even those pathetic offenses out performed Jauron's Juggernaut.

Probably the GM's more so then the coach, both are responsible for getting talent but it falls more on the GM.

 

By the way who ran the show at QB for his offenses? Rookies, Kordellas, Jim Millers, Cade McNowns, Losmans the list of misfits goes on for days. Run a stat check on teams with QB's who enter a season with a career rating under 80, I bet Jaurons win % far exceeds the average of those teams. He's had two pro bowl offensive players, both lineman, in the history of his head coaching career. The lack of talent is undeniable and overwhelming.

 

But I guess he should just "get it done". If not lets replace him, build a new system, get us a winner.Afterall trying that about half a dozen times over the last decade played no role in our playoff drought.

[ax4782]

Probably the GM's more so then the coach, both are responsible for getting talent but it falls more on the GM.

 

By the way who ran the show at QB for his offenses? Rookies, Kordellas, Jim Millers, Cade McNowns, Losmans the list of misfits goes on for days. Run a stat check on teams with QB's who enter a season with a career rating under 80, I bet Jaurons win % far exceeds the average of those teams. He's had two pro bowl offensive players, both lineman, in the history of his head coaching career. The lack of talent is undeniable and overwhelming.

 

But I guess he should just "get it done". If not lets replace him, build a new system, get us a winner.Afterall trying that about half a dozen times over the last decade played no role in our playoff drought.

 

I think that pretty much said it. And the fact is, Jauron didn't run the offense. Fairchild did, and it wasn't the one that he promised to run either. The fact is, the FO signs the players and gives the coach the product to put out on the field. The fact is that there were a lot of injuries on D, and had we been healthy on that side of the ball all season, I think we would have won a couple more games than we did. The Ravens did not have a ferocious offense the year they won the Super Bowl, certainly not with Trent Dilfer at QB. Having a very good D is what wins games and in the playoffs and the Bills have been doing that. The fact that the Bills were dead last in points scored last year isn't good, but with all of the changes that they have made does anyone really think that a repeat performance is in order?

 

As to the original post, no, I wouldn't yank TE at the end of this season even if it goes poorly. I will again refer folks to the fact that Edwards' numbers in nine games last year were as good or better than many of the better QB's in NFL history in their first seasons as QBs. Statistics from last year don't prove anything. Before we start frantically finding reasons for why JP should get back on the field, could we just wait until the season is underway before rushing to judgment and addressing irrelevant hypotheticals?

[krazykat]

You may want to check that. Edwards wasn't around in '06.

 

As for the rest, get back to me after his 31st NFL start. In the meantime I am fully confident he is going to do some of the dumbest things I've seen a QB do, he's not going to do some of the greatest things I've seen QBs do, and the rest of the offense is going to have to mature together as a unit as well. Takes time and patience. He's also going to show the glimpses that I've seen enough of to convince me he's going to make it in the league.

 

GO BILLS!!!

OK, let's take this one piece at a time then.

 

Losman's performance in '06 outperformed what Edwards did last year.

 

[krazykat]

I agree with a lot of what you just said. I think you give Edwards two seasons, and expect him to then be part of the reason that you are winning, not just doing what he can to not contribute to a loss. I do not agree with your analysis on losman however, as I feel he has had every opportunity to take the reins, he inherited a team and was given the job without question two seporate times, and couldnt produce. This is pointless to argue with you though seeing as how you are still a losman guy, where as i have given up hope on him, and buried my no 7 jersey in the back of my closet. Hopefully Trent shows consistant flashes of brilliance this season, like he did at times last season, see washington redskins game.

Actually, I'm not a Losman guy. Never have been. Thought it was dumb to trade up for him in round one while everyone here applauded the move. Funny the irony.

[keepthefaith]

Suppose Edwards flops, just suppose, and that it becomes clear fairly early in the season that he's showing no improvement regarding the ability to lead the team's offense either downfield or into the end zone.

 

At what point do those of you supporting Edwards pull the plug permanently on the youngster?

 

Because in spite of my criticism for Edwards and insistence that he's never going to do anything here, partly for reasons of his own and partly for reasons having little to do with him, I still take the stance that you really need to give a QB a couple of solid full starting seasons to be fair.

 

Losman never got that, he got one. In '05 he and Holcomb were interchanged like pegs on an old time telephone switchboard. He had a shot in '06 where he outperformed Edwards by a long shot and with nearly a 2-to-1 TD/INT ratio at 17/9, yet the media and fans dismissed that in favor of the young Edwards who replaced him last season after just a handful of starts again. Clearly a Jauron thing since Edwards was their guy.

 

Edwards got the last half of last season and now starts this one.

 

So let's say that Edwards performs poorly again. He doesn't throw many TDs relative to even average NFL QBs, the team's red zone and scoring woes don't let up, etc.

 

At what point do you begin talking about replacement and with whom do you replace him?

 

As I see it the team, fans, and media now owe it to Edwards to give him at least two full seasons on his own before discarding hiim. That means through '09. But that hasn't been the pattern here outside of Bledsoe and he got way more time than necessary for a veteran with known issues.

 

I'm thinking if this happens, then most of those that support Edwards now will be the ones quick to pull the trigger on getting him out of there either during or immediately following the season. But IMO that's not fair in spite of the notion that I don't think he's ever going to amount to much in the NFL. IMO he, just like any QB, should be given an absolute minimum of two full starting seasons, which Losman did not get and what he did get was with a lesser cast of offensive talent than what Edwards has to work with.

 

Also, if this does happen, Losman isn't the guy to put in since we have all but burned our bridges with him, and honestly, he should leave after the way he's been treated here. So given an Edwards failure, what next and when? Who, Matt Baker?

 

Either way, we can't keep on giving QBs one season and parts of others. It's poor leadership.

 

Trent doesn't strike me as a guy who will flop. He plays a responsible stlye. Doesn't hold the ball too long, throws with some accuracy, seems to have an understanding of the offense and respects what the coaches want him to do. With that said, my question would be can he make the leap from responsible yes man don't take too much risk QB to a more successful one? One who can: bring the team back from behind, put a weak team away, make a big play when he needs to and keep his TD/intereption ratio positive while staying healthy. So far what we've seen is really ordinary stuff from him (aided of course by his amazing "poise"). I think the question with Trent is whether or not he can be more than another Kelly Holcomb. Time will tell and he'll need some good work form the coaches and his teammates to do it.

[krazykat]

He would need to be hopelessly bad for us to scrap him after this season, like a 7TD 30+Int season.

Why, Losman wasn't "hopelessly bad" before we scrapped him. I mean come on, 17 TDs/9 INTs = "hopelessly bad"?

 

Those are extremely average numbers.

[krazykat]

So you are not an Edwards "hopeful"? You don't hope he does well and helps our team?

 

GO BILLS!

Do I hope he does well and helps our team? Sure I do, just like I did Bledsoe, Holcomb, Losman, etc.

 

What I think doesn't matter now, does it? Or as long as I start talking positively about the young QB it will all be OK, is that it? Do I have that kind of power?

[krazykat]

You don't pull him at all this season because everyone behind him is inferior. As long as he doesn't get hurt, he should take every snap. He's smart enough and has the athletic ability to learn from any mistakes that he makes.

 

IMO, you give him this season, and the debate is dead.

Isn't that the assumption that I made?

 

But in your mind it would be fine to yank him for next season in spite of his only having started a single season then?

 

I guess what I'm driving at is that if we only keep giving our QBs a fraction of one season, and no matter how fragmented, and only one entire season to prove anything, IMO we will never find a QB.

 

Every other team it seems gives their QBs at least two and often three or four seasons of starting prior to ditching them. Not here though. Nope. We screw with their psyches for a season, then start them, then replace them.

 

I just don't think that's a good way to do business. Since Bledsoe left we have only had one QB start an entire season, Losman in '06.

[Johnny Coli]

A lot of whether Edwards continues to start, even if he ends up stinking up the joint, will be tied directly to Jauron's job security. If the team is losing and Edwards is terrible but Jauron is assured of coming back for 2009, then I don't think Edwards will get yanked and he'll be allowed to work through the yips. But if Jauron feels his job is on the line, then much like the previous idiot did standing in his shoes, you will see the Great QB Carousel once again.

[krazykat]

Wow. Can't believe the daily discussions about Losman vs Edwards...after all, that's what this thread is about.

 

Again...We have two potential NFL starting QB's on our team. We need to find the best QB NOW.

 

Losman has proved that he melts down in the pocket too much, and Edwards showed flashes of pocket presence last year.

 

I'm not saying that Edwards will be an All Pro or anything like that, just we need to stop the JP experiment and move on. I bet if Trent was a 1st, or early 2nd round pick, we would not have these discussions.

 

Face it, JP is not what we had hoped for, and Trent showed us too much last year to not give him the chance.

And Edwards has yet to come even close to JP's 17/9 TD/INT ratio, his completion percentage of ~ 63% in either of the last two seasons, or JP's 11th ranked rating in '06 of 84.9.

 

But hey, as long as he has good pocket presence, what do TDs matter.

[krazykat]

As a purported Bills' fan, wouldn't you also be an Edwards hopeful?

 

You see, idiotic topics like this are the reason I don't read anything you post.

Yet, you have the irresistable urge to open your mouth and reply anyway. Obviously you're not being honest here because you at least knew the topic.

 

 

And since when does my hoping alter what will happen or what I believe will happen?

 

I "hope" for a Super Bowl win, but with what we have infesting OBD, I think I'd have a better chance of sprouting a second set of genetalia.

[krazykat]

hmmmm.....you appear to be irritating a lot of peole Kat?

Some people here live to get irritated.

 

I truly think that they enjoy it.

 

Regardless, you can't even bring up decent topic discussions, of which I sincerely thought this would be one, without A, people not even addressing the initial point, and B, doing it even remotely effectively.

 

And what's with you, you're usually right in the middle of the fray. What'd you do, get stoned the second you woke up?

[krazykat]

I would really like to see a full year of Trent Edwards before even going to this conversation.

LOL

 

Yeah, that would make sense, particularly given last year. But hey, since when did sense or reason ever enter into things here.

[thebug]

Yet, you have the irresistable urge to open your mouth and reply anyway. Obviously you're not being honest here because you at least knew the topic.

 

 

And since when does my hoping alter what will happen or what I believe will happen?

 

I "hope" for a Super Bowl win, but with what we have infesting OBD, I think I'd have a better chance of sprouting a second set of genetalia.

 

 

Have you looked in the mirror?

[BillnutinHouston]

Everyone here had BETTER be an Edwards hopeful. Don't we all want the Bills to win?

 

I am not currently a fan of Trent based on what I've seen so far, but I HOPE he earns my fandom by playing well and winning.

[keepthefaith]

A lot of whether Edwards continues to start, even if he ends up stinking up the joint, will be tied directly to Jauron's job security. If the team is losing and Edwards is terrible but Jauron is assured of coming back for 2009, then I don't think Edwards will get yanked and he'll be allowed to work through the yips. But if Jauron feels his job is on the line, then much like the previous idiot did standing in his shoes, you will see the Great QB Carousel once again.

 

A lot of that depends on the front office. I don't see Brandon firing Jauron after Brandon's first year in the chair. Although I do like the sound of Bill Cowher as the Bills coach. Somebody should check to see if Cowher's duaghters are all out of high school after this year. Once that happens I think he'll be back on a sideline. Speaking of Cowher, if he were the head coach, you think he would have pulled JP out of there like that? I think not. Actually I like the sound of Cowher/Losman a lot better than Jauron/Edwards.

[krazykat]

Have you looked in the mirror?

All the time, I love myself.

[krazykat]

Everyone here had BETTER be an Edwards hopeful. Don't we all want the Bills to win?

 

I am not currently a fan of Trent based on what I've seen so far, but I HOPE he earns my fandom by playing well and winning.

 

No, that''s not correct. Here is the definition of "hope",

 

1. To wish for something with expectation of its fulfillment.

2. Archaic. To have confidence; trust.

v.tr.

1. To look forward to with confidence or expectation: We hope that our children will be successful.

2. To expect and desire. See synonyms at expect.

 

You're confusing that with "desire",

 

1. To wish or long for; want.

2. To express a wish for; request.

 

Do we all "desire" Trent to play well and the Bills to win? Absolutely.

 

Do we all have hope that that's what will unfold? Far from it.

 

So no, I'm not an "Edwards hopeful" and neither are you based on what you said. We are both desirous of seeing that he succeeds however.

 

Of course desire and reality are often far apart as we all well know from life's experiences.

[krazykat]

A lot of that depends on the front office. I don't see Brandon firing Jauron after Brandon's first year in the chair. Although I do like the sound of Bill Cowher as the Bills coach. Somebody should check to see if Cowher's duaghters are all out of high school after this year. Once that happens I think he'll be back on a sideline. Speaking of Cowher, if he were the head coach, you think he would have pulled JP out of there like that? I think not. Actually I like the sound of Cowher/Losman a lot better than Jauron/Edwards.

All I know is that if we keep yanking QBs after one starting season of not leading us to the playoffs, we'll never find a starter.

 

As to Brandon, if he wasn't originally on board with Jauron's hiring then he may very well pull the plug after this season. I've never heard him quoted either way, but who knows, maybe he thought that Jauron was a poor hire as was the case, and is eager to not see his legacy get tarnished so deeply and so soon without at least putting his seal of approval on matters first.

 

I know I wouldn't want to go down as a result of someone else's poor decisions. The media and the fans for sure aren't going to be supportive of Jauron for a fourth season if he doesn't produce a winning season, and IMO they also aren't going to consider Schonert's OJT status either and if the O doesn't improve mightily this season, they'll have seen enough already from just one more inexperienced stab in the dark for OC.

 

But I can easily see Brandon moving on.