To all the thieves out there

[Just Jack]

Where can I send my check to Mozart?

Vienna's St. Marx cemetery

[The Poojer]

i was just busting....i think i used "kid rock" with the parentheses and it found it that way

 

Funny. I did a search but "kid" and "PSA" are 3 letters so the search bonked them. "Rock" had too many hits. My post is better.

 

PS--what's worse...I replied in your original thread!

[BillsFanNC]

Other than the handful of the talentless hacks beholden to the major corporate pigs who force radio stations to play their music, I don't see any serious artists bitching and moaning about it. They don't make money off the music. They make money off the merch and touring. The only people who stand to lose any money are the people who aren't actually making the music to begin with. The major music companies would love for you to think you're ripping off your favorite artists. Then people will ignore that its the major record companies that are the ones ripping off the artists. They just don't want your competition.

 

I love the argument that if the major companies ceased to exist all the artists would suffer and we'd have nothing to buy. The idea is laughable. The ones that would suffer would be the parasites living off someone else's art and the fabricated artists manufactured by the record companies to sell a style. The people actually making the music would be just fine.

 

Wouldn't it be nice to listen to the radio again? Wouldn't it be nice to hear genre-breaking stuff by people who aren't just pandering to some music exec who pays off radio stations to force garbage into your eardrums? It's the record companies that have limited the choices you have because it helps them maximize their returns by limiting the money they would have to use to discover talent. Instead they're telling YOU what the talent is. That's bull sh--, man. They've made the choice to limit your choice. You can make the choice to get the music you want to hear by leaving them out of the equation. Steal the music. Go to the shows.

 

[WellDressed]

Me and Mrs. Tight Skirt never use the actual itune store. Their bitrate tops off at what, 128? I can always find the song I want at least 192

[Fezmid]

I'm been flamed for saying this before, but it's a very important point -- STEALING IS NOT THE SAME AS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.

 

Downloading a Kid Rock song is not the same as stealing a pair of pants.

 

Heck, downloading a Kid Rock song is not the same as stealing a Kid Rock CD. Ironically, you can get in FAR more trouble downloading a song (infringement) than stealing the CD. That's because the laws in the country were not written with any concept of digital distribution. The laws are completely broken, but the RIAA (and, to a lesser extend, MPAA) lobbies are far too strong for that to ever change.

 

Penalties:

http://offtheshelf.nowis.com/index.cfm?ID=5

 

For stealing the DVD you could face no more than up to 1 year imprisonment and up to a $100,000 fine; for downloading the same material you could face statutory damages of up to $3,300,000, costs and attorney's fees (ie: the other guy's attorneys), as well as up to 1 year imprisonment, and up to a $100,000 fine.

 

There's a very long post in the comments here that is interesting reading:

http://www.tenreasonswhy.com/weblog/archiv...nfringment.html

 

Flame me if you want, but I'm right.

[John Adams]

I'm been flamed for saying this before, but it's a very important point -- STEALING IS NOT THE SAME AS COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT.

...

Flame me if you want, but I'm right.

 

That's a distinction without much of a difference. When you "steal" a secret formula from Coca-Cola, the law calls it "misappropriation." BFD. The word games don't change the issue. So far in this thread, most people rationalize the theft by saying record companies are scum. It's really an unbelievable bit of self-deception. You know who's really scum. China. Guess we should steal Chinese-made goods manufactured by evil DuPont sold by the dirtbags of Wal-Mart.

[Fezmid]

That's a distinction without much of a difference.

Actually, there's a HUGE difference.

 

Would you rather I make a copy of a painting you did, or would you rather I steal your car?

 

In the first case, you still have the painting. In the second case, you need to buy a new car.

[stevestojan]

Actually, there's a HUGE difference.

 

Would you rather I make a copy of a painting you did, or would you rather I steal your car?

 

In the first case, you still have the painting. In the second case, you need to buy a new car.

 

But if you steal a CD, the artist still has other CDs.

 

I agree mainly with the point you're trying to make, but that analogy doesn't hold water.

[John Adams]

Actually, there's a HUGE difference.

 

Would you rather I make a copy of a painting you did, or would you rather I steal your car?

 

In the first case, you still have the painting. In the second case, you need to buy a new car.

 

Theft of intellectual property is different than theft of personal property. Still stealing.

 

IT took me a year to write a book. You stole the Word file and share it with your friends. Stealing.

[Chilly]

So far in this thread, most people rationalize the theft by saying record companies are scum. It's really an unbelievable bit of self-deception. You know who's really scum. China. Guess we should steal Chinese-made goods manufactured by evil DuPont sold by the dirtbags of Wal-Mart.

 

While some people would always steal, the record companies aren't without blame here, either. They are charging consumers way too much money for a product with DRM and limited formats/quality, and refuse to switch to a viable online business model. There are three parts to high piracy rate to music: a.) its easy to pirate and not get caught, b.) the distribution model by the record labels is extremely poor and discourages honest people from buying, c.) their product is overpriced.

[John Adams]

While some people would always steal, the record companies aren't without blame here, either. They are charging consumers way too much money for a product with DRM and limited formats/quality, and refuse to switch to a viable online business model. There are three parts to high piracy rate to music: a.) its easy to pirate and not get caught, b.) the distribution model by the record labels is extremely poor and discourages honest people from buying, c.) their product is overpriced.

 

Oh, and d) a person steals the music.

 

There are so many worse people than the music industry. The posters in this thread make them sound like the antichrist. It's a convenient justification for the theft. You're all bunch of modern Robin Hoods.

[Chilly]

Oh, and d) a person steals the music.

 

What the hell do you think a.) meant?

 

(And yes, there are multiple reasons as to why piracy is so high).

 

There are so many worse people than the music industry. The posters in this thread make them sound like the antichrist. It's a convenient justification for the theft. You're all bunch of modern Robin Hoods.

 

Because the RIAA is just so ethical, right?

[John Adams]

Because the RIAA is just so ethical, right?

 

Right. They are dicks so DrD gets to steal. Even my My 1st grader recognizes that as a flawed argument.

[Chilly]

Right. They are dicks so DrD gets to steal. Even my My 1st grader recognizes that as a flawed argument.

 

Nice straw man argument. Please point out where in this thread I advocated such a position.

 

I was replying to your complaint that people make them seem like "the antichrist"

[Pete]

I don't buy the argument equating downloading music with stealing a pair of pants. One is tangible. I understand some propriety technologies and agree with those. But music as intellectual property I do not buy. I am a chef and create my own dishes. Can I patent them? Is that intellectual property? That notion seems laughable to me. Can I patent a cat birds song? I do not believe you can patent a sound. Just as I do not believe an artist can prevent you from viewing their art. And yes the record companies are hypocritical scum. AOL brags about download capabilities, while Time Warner puts out music that is downloaded. Conglomerates cannot have it both ways. And I have tons of music (95% I purchased and uploaded myself), anyone want some? Share! Share! Share!

[GG]

No they don't. They've limited the exposure to only a few select styles, abandoning variety for mass-produced garbage that they pay the radio stations to play. If people can only choose between a few pre-selected styles then that's what they'll do because they don't have any other choice. Idol isn't a good example because they've already triaged out the variety for a few contestants that fit a pre-conceived mold. People aren't voting for Idol contestants based on talent. It's got nothing to do with music at all, and anyone who watches can see that.

 

Which is to say that it isn't any different than it has always been. The major labels will always cater to the mass audience, which usually has a different taste than aficionados. You can use that argument with wine, beer, or any other kind of snobs. he bottom line is that if you want something out of the mainstream you need to pay a premium either in money or time invested in discovering it. Don't blame the industry for catering to the masses. My guess is that with or without major record companies, more people would still listen to a Madonna than to a Einstürzende Neubauten.

 

Plenty of bands deserve to be playing in big venues, but we'll never know (or ever hear them unless you're hitting the small venues) if they could because the record companies and corporate radio have decided to ignore potential for manufactured.

 

Bands don't deserve anything unless they're willing to put skin in the game. The reason that the major promoters work with major record companies is that you want to be damn sure that when you're booking a 20,000 seat arena, at least 15,000 show up. If bands want the larger exposure, they either do it themselves, or pay someone (labels, promoters) to do it for them.

[Fezmid]

But if you steal a CD, the artist still has other CDs.

 

I agree mainly with the point you're trying to make, but that analogy doesn't hold water.

 

The analogy holds up just fine. The artist has 1,000,000 CDs. I take one. He now only has 999,999 CDs. He has less than he had before.

 

If instead of stealing the CD, I simply download the songs off the album -- he still has 1,000,000 CDs.

[GG]

The analogy holds up just fine. The artist has 1,000,000 CDs. I take one. He now only has 999,999 CDs. He has less than he had before.

 

If instead of stealing the CD, I simply download the songs off the album -- he still has 1,000,000 CDs.

 

The analogy is crap, because the value equivalent of those 1,000,000 CDs has reduced by one because you stole the digital equivalent of a hard copy. It's really not that hard of a concept (especially for someone who works in network security)

 

Why don't you open up all the corporate networks & your personal networks for everyone to share a tiny bit of everything you own?

[Fezmid]

The analogy is crap, because the value equivalent of those 1,000,000 CDs has reduced by one because you stole the digital equivalent of a hard copy. It's really not that hard of a concept (especially for someone who works in network security.

 

That isn't accurate at all -- most people download music and software because it's convenient, and if they didn't download it, they would never purchase it.

 

But even if we accept your premise as true, how do you explain the massive penalties for downloading vs stealing?

 

"For stealing the DVD you could face no more than up to 1 year imprisonment and up to a $100,000 fine; for downloading the same material you could face statutory damages of up to $3,300,000, costs and attorney's fees (ie: the other guy's attorneys), as well as up to 1 year imprisonment, and up to a $100,000 fine."

[stuckincincy]

The analogy holds up just fine. The artist has 1,000,000 CDs. I take one. He now only has 999,999 CDs. He has less than he had before.

 

If instead of stealing the CD, I simply download the songs off the album -- he still has 1,000,000 CDs.

 

Fez, you can plead your case come Judgment Day.