Scouts Inc. on the Bills "O"

[Sisyphean Bills]

OK, now play the role of defensive coordinator for a moment:

 

Your opponent is playing a rookie QB, who has one real threat to throw to- an undersized WR who's main strength is going deep and struggles over the middle. The other tools in the passing game are this: A solid slot receiver who is forced to play outside, a punt returner who doesn run routes, a couple practice squad players and mediocre tight ends.

 

Add that the center is very soft and that the right tackle is a step slow out of his stance.

 

Add in that the running backs have trouble stopping blitzing cheerleaders.

 

OK, not to put this together, the middle of our line is a disaster because of a center who isn't goood enough and our right tackle is slow. This leaves us vulnerable to the blitz- factor in that nobody in the backfield picks up the blitz and we have a QB that is still adjusting to NFL pressure. The line problem almost negates having the best LT in football!

 

Would you back off?

Uh, hell no, Adam. I'd bleed 'em to death.

 

What I'm poking at is who's profound decision was it to do away with taking shots down the field almost completely? Even when we had a noodle armed Collins and a rag armed Van Pelt under center and other holes, Dan Henning didn't just lie down in the middle of the tracks and wait for the train. The point is that even if you suck, you are a professional and it is an obligation to at least try to do the job. There is no shame in emptying the tank and failing. Far worse to pack it in and wait for a sunny day.

[krazykat]

The answer to your question IMHO is the the reason the O results stunk last year was mostly a failure of Fairchild to develop and implement and effective O.

 

The buck of course eventually stops with the HC who generally get far too much credit for things working and far too much blame for failure.

 

However, the initial primary responsibility for running an effective O is the OC's and it simply amazes me that he got promoted to his new job with the results our offense produced.

 

Will Schoenert do better?

 

Yep, as it will not be hard to be better than worst in the NFL.

 

Will he be adequate?

 

We will have to see. The team will have better players on O (a #2 WR who will likely not produce better results than PP, but who simply presents demographic issues because of his height which likely will force Ds to adjust to us rather than have us adjust to them). Both Edwards and Lynch in the second years should reasonably give us improvement.

 

Finally, the lack of production of the Fairchild directed O provides a template for improving the O performance.

 

A key likely will be whether the massive retool we have going on on ST will consistently generate good field position consistently for this team.

 

I think the O is still a year away from the adequacy we want, but it should easily be better.

Your assessments of the O going forward are guesses at best. Who would have thought that Fairchild's O would have been so pathetic, certainly not me. I knew it wouldn't be good for reasons, but as bad as it was rivalling a franchise worst was unforeseen.

 

It may not be hard to not be the worst in the NFL, but it's no given that we will rise from say the worst half dozen teams or so. There's no more reason to believe that Schonert is ripe for the job than there was that Fairchild was, perhaps even less. In fact Schonert's already made remarks that should cause us to wonder about what's going on.

 

As to the HC taking blame, particularly a defensive minded one such as Jauron, while he may not be able to formulate the offense, he should at least pressure the OC to make changes and to alter the overall play of the offense regardless of which methods he should choose and apart from the HC's interference. There's little evidence to suggest that Jauron even did that.

 

The O may be better but even with the talent that everyone seems to think we have, even if the ball was snapped and the linemen leaned forward this team should have done better than it did. I wouldn't say easily by any stretch though. Schonert could very well be a similar disaster. He has no credentials or experience to suggest any thing more.

[krazykat]

I would love to see the ball thrown more to Marshawn and maybe even Jackson. Many RB's have excelled in this type of offense.

It all comes down to time produced by protection and blocking.

[krazykat]

OK, now play the role of defensive coordinator for a moment:

 

Your opponent is playing a rookie QB, who has one real threat to throw to- an undersized WR who's main strength is going deep and struggles over the middle. The other tools in the passing game are this: A solid slot receiver who is forced to play outside, a punt returner who doesn run routes, a couple practice squad players and mediocre tight ends.

 

Add that the center is very soft and that the right tackle is a step slow out of his stance.

 

Add in that the running backs have trouble stopping blitzing cheerleaders.

 

OK, not to put this together, the middle of our line is a disaster because of a center who isn't goood enough and our right tackle is slow. This leaves us vulnerable to the blitz- factor in that nobody in the backfield picks up the blitz and we have a QB that is still adjusting to NFL pressure. The line problem almost negates having the best LT in football!

 

Would you back off?

Couple that with notions that the pressure will only increase this year in addition to DCs not backing off.

 

Just like under Johnson, it won't ease up until Edwards can prove that he can overcome that. IMO that's not gonna happen if what he delivered last year is the gauge.

[1billsfan]

OK, now play the role of defensive coordinator for a moment:

 

Your opponent is playing a rookie QB, who has one real threat to throw to- an undersized WR who's main strength is going deep and struggles over the middle. The other tools in the passing game are this: A solid slot receiver who is forced to play outside, a punt returner who doesn run routes, a couple practice squad players and mediocre tight ends.

 

Add that the center is very soft and that the right tackle is a step slow out of his stance.

 

Add in that the running backs have trouble stopping blitzing cheerleaders.

 

OK, not to put this together, the middle of our line is a disaster because of a center who isn't goood enough and our right tackle is slow. This leaves us vulnerable to the blitz- factor in that nobody in the backfield picks up the blitz and we have a QB that is still adjusting to NFL pressure. The line problem almost negates having the best LT in football!

 

Would you back off?

 

 

Our line were pretty good blockers last year in the passing game. Do you even watch the games? Marshawn missed about two blitzes all year, and so to you that equates to he has trouble stopping blitzing cheerleaders. I've now come to expect this stuff coming from the biggest coaching apologist here.

 

 

Let me clue you in...

 

1. Marshawn should have been running routes and NOT pass blocking. Trent has a quick release and dumping the ball off to Marshawn should have been a staple play in our offense. It wasn't one because our coaching was moronic.

 

2. The defenses KNEW what plays the Bills were going to run prior to the ball being snapped. National commentators were correctly calling plays before the ball was snapped. This is because every time Trent made a fake audible with arm movements the Bills would of course run the ball. The Bills consistently ran the ball on first and second downs. This offense was the most predictable offense that I've ever seen. Do you know what kind of pressure that puts the offensive line under? Do you? When they actually KNOW if it will be a run or pass?

 

3. It is pathetic coaching when pee wee football teams have an audible system yet the NFL football team Buffalo Bills did not. That's an outrage, that's moronic coaching that does not trust in their players.

 

 

Yet you will continue to blame the players because the 6 of 7 season loser head coach Dick Jauron has just had the sh_ttiest luck when it came to talent. It couldn't possibly be that he's a horrible head coach. I'm sorry, but every time I see you try to skew reality and knock the players, I'll be there to set the record straight. Your buddy Jaroun's departure from the Bills can not come soon enough for me.

[Dan]

My answer is "I have no idea" if the O is going to improve from 32nd best in 08.

 

Sorry, but the arguments you present that the offense will improve are weak. Schonert is automatically better than Fairchild? That's just not a given as offensive performance is not determined by simply drawing names out of a hat. There is no evidence that Schonert is better or even knows what he is doing. He could be another bad experiment that just goes haywire. A rookie WR will force defenses to adjust to the offense based on his height but you don't expect him to be even as good as Peerless, who was below average (and missed most of 07 with a broken neck). You realize that Jauron likes his veterans because they represent fewer mistakes than rookies, right? And finally Edwards and Lynch will automatically be better than last year because its a new calendar year. Let's hope so, because a sophomore slump for either of those two could spell a long fugly season.

In this instance, I would think that replacing Fairchild with the mascot would yield a better offense. Our offense was miserable last year, partly because of the players. However, primarily because Fairchild literally appeared to be standing on the sidelines with a copy of Football for Dummies. When you hear commetnts like, "we practiced plays all week, but never used them in the game" you can only conclude that Fairchild was inept, at best. Couple that with a complete lack of situational awareness, a complete lack of understanding your player's strengths, and what do you have - complete incompetence.

 

So, yes, there are plenty of question marks with regards to the players improving or not. And much of our season will depend upon Edwards continued improvement; the ability of Hardy to contribute, etc. However, there is no doubt that Schonert will be better than Fairchild. Will he be the best OC in the league, perhaps not, but better than Fairchild, yes.

[K-9]

1. Completely false. When I say front, I mean 6 or 7 on the line, just like they did to us with Bledsoe. You're going to see the same exact thing this year and Edwards doesn't scare any DC nearly as much as Bledsoe did. So we could very well be in a world of hurt there. Otherwise, many 4-3 teams line up four on the line throughout most of the game. I think you've been watching to much Bills defense.

 

2. I would challenge that too. Dockery is noted for not being good in space. He's our second best lineman. I don't think that anyone is going to rant about Butler or Fowler's play in space. Besides, how often do our guys have the option of playing in space? That typically happens when an offense can spread the D out some which we haven't proven to be able to do. If anything teams stunt us, making "space" a luxury, and are very effective at it. Regardless, Dockery clearly has his space play as an issue and otherwise I'm sure we can sit here and discuss how many plays the OL men were in space or not, but that's a waste of our time.

 

In fact however, Dockery is ill suited to zone blocking, which is what we're going to do. Fowler's more "suited" to it as are most Cs due to their smaller size, but he's just not that good. Butler's a msytery. But I would say this, you're not going to be very effective at zone blocking if your Gs suck at it.

 

3. Correct. A catching FB. Have we got one on the roster? No, we don't. So yes, a purely blocking FB ain't a fixture in the WCO. A FB in the WCO absolutely must be able to catch. Is Barnes a good receiver? Nope. In six seasons Barnes has fewer catches than you have fingers and toes, unless you lost some.

 

Jonathon Evans is your other choice. You want to rely on Evans to run our WCO?

 

Regardless, the problem with all of this is that Schonert spoke of using a FB in a traditiona sense, block for Lynch, not to be used in the passing game. Clearly the team hasn't prepared for that either. We have no one that is even a tenth of what Rathman, for example, was in the passing game.

 

4. We are in agreement then.

 

5. I haven't seen evidence that Edwards is particularly good at either reading a defense or seeing the entire field. We all saw numerous instances last year where Edwards went for the primary off the short step drop with much better options open that would have resulted in big plays. At least bigger plays. Call it rookie issues. But I didn't see enough to suggest that he will all of a sudden be great at reading Ds or finding the best options. I also don't think he's gonna have the time to evaluate them often.

 

1.) Well, since you offered your clarification then we are saying the same thing. Try not to confuse the conventional football nomenclature next time. Regardless, we will see the same stacked line of scrimmage we saw last year for the exact reasons I and others have outlined numerous times around here. In a word, when Ds start having to devote resources to personnel other than Evans, they won't be able to crowd the LOS. I think everyone knows what we have to do in order to loosen up the D fronts. And, contrary to what many believe around here, IT AIN'T GOING LONG TO EVANS. In fact, that plays right into the Ds hands. But I digress.

 

2.) Challenge my assertion all you like but the fact remains we were very successful running out of single back spread formations last season. Especially to the right side. That's also been pointed out numerous times as well. If you want me to explain WHY we can't utilize MORE spread formations, I'd be happy to. But the fact remains our infrequent use of single back, 3 WRs spread formations has more to do with the QB, RB, WR (especially slot), and TE than it does our Olines ability to operate in space. We wouldn't have been successful running out of a spread formation if our OLmen COULDN'T operate in space.

 

As for your assertion that we are going to zone block, I have to question it. When facing all those 8 and 9 man fronts last year, we COULDN'T zone block. It's futile. It's not advisable when the defensive front has more numbers at the point of attack. I remember the great debates on the BB last season about how we zone block because Joe D said so on the radio. It simply wasn't true to any great extent due to the nature of the D fronts we faced precluded it much of the time.

 

3.) I don't know, DO we have a pass catching FB on the roster? Doesn't matter since I highly doubt we're running a true WCO anyway. It's not what our personnel is best suited to. Especially our TEs and RBs. I agree that our FB will be used more like say the FB in San Diego. An occassional pass receiver but used mostly to block for Lynch. Personnally, I'd like to see us use the single back, 3WR set as our base but that makes us too vulnerable at the edges and our skill personnel hasn't proved they have what it takes to consistently exploit the vulnerabilities in a defense forced to spread out.

 

4.) I'd be more concerned about the abiliity of our OTHER skill positions to read a defense than our QB at this point. It was painfully obvious that Parrish and Royal missed A LOT of hot reads last season. And it vicitmized BOTH JP and Edwards. Be that as it may, Edwards has more than enough upstairs to read the safety pre-snap (the QBs first and most important read pre-snap) so I have no problem believing he'll be ok with his reads post snap. Hell, the rapidity with which he goes through his progressions tells me he can do that. But, as I mentioned above, if his other skill players aren't on the same page it won't matter one bit. And last year they were not.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

In this instance, I would think that replacing Fairchild with the mascot would yield a better offense. Our offense was miserable last year, partly because of the players. However, primarily because Fairchild literally appeared to be standing on the sidelines with a copy of Football for Dummies.

When you hear commetnts like, "we practiced plays all week, but never used them in the game" you can only conclude that Fairchild was inept, at best. Couple that with a complete lack of situational awareness, a complete lack of understanding your player's strengths, and what do you have - complete incompetence.

Not a bad description.

So, yes, there are plenty of question marks with regards to the players improving or not. And much of our season will depend upon Edwards continued improvement; the ability of Hardy to contribute, etc. However, there is no doubt that Schonert will be better than Fairchild. Will he be the best OC in the league, perhaps not, but better than Fairchild, yes.

I wouldn't say "no doubt" -- I've been shocked by levels of incompetence before -- but there is a good probability that a toadstool would improve the coaching staff's collective competence.

[keepthefaith]

 

Not a bad description.

 

I wouldn't say "no doubt" -- I've been shocked by levels of incompetence before -- but there is a good probability that a toadstool would improve the coaching staff's collective competence.

 

 

I am not willing to point the finger of blame at Fairchild for last year. There were a lot of factions at work in the offense last year. I don't think it would be a stretch at all to conclude that the front office, the coaches and the QBs were not all on the same page last year in terms of how to run the offense and who should run it. The proof will be in what happens this year.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I am not willing to point the finger of blame at Fairchild for last year. There were a lot of factions at work in the offense last year. I don't think it would be a stretch at all to conclude that the front office, the coaches and the QBs were not all on the same page last year in terms of how to run the offense and who should run it. The proof will be in what happens this year.

Well said. Now that is something I can agree with. Fairchild may not be the most creative guy, but I dismiss the notion that he is a mental slug with zero football knowledge. That's far too pat of an excuse -- but it is a convenient one since the major change on O for 08 is simply his absence.

[Dan]

I wouldn't say "no doubt" -- I've been shocked by levels of incompetence before -- but there is a good probability that a toadstool would improve the coaching staff's collective competence.

I can live with that. Certainly, I didn't think last year's offense would have been so miserable going into the season.

 

Well said. Now that is something I can agree with. Fairchild may not be the most creative guy, but I dismiss the notion that he is a mental slug with zero football knowledge. That's far too pat of an excuse -- but it is a convenient one since the major change on O for 08 is simply his absence.

Which is what puzzles me so much about last season. I know that several factors came together for the ineptitude that wreaked on the field. But, certainly a good portion of it was play calling; which was almost solely on the shoulders of Fairchild. In the 2 games (Bengals and Dolphins) that we appeared to have a good game plan, the players responded quite well. But, where was that in the other 14 games? How many times did we all see the run package come out on first down, then the defense move into the box, then we get stuffed for little or no gain ? That's got to be on the OC, not the players, IMO.

[Adam]

Our line were pretty good blockers last year in the passing game. Do you even watch the games? Marshawn missed about two blitzes all year, and so to you that equates to he has trouble stopping blitzing cheerleaders. I've now come to expechttp://www.stadiumwall.com/style_images/bills-1/folder_editor_images/rte-list-numbered.gif

Insert Listt this stuff coming from the biggest coaching apologist here.

 

 

Let me clue you in...

 

1. Marshawn should have been running routes and NOT pass blocking. Trent has a quick release and dumping the ball off to Marshawn should have been a staple play in our offense. It wasn't one because our coaching was moronic.

 

2. The defenses KNEW what plays the Bills were going to run prior to the ball being snapped. National commentators were correctly calling plays before the ball was snapped. This is because every time Trent made a fake audible with arm movements the Bills would of course run the ball. The Bills consistently ran the ball on first and second downs. This offense was the most predictable offense that I've ever seen. Do you know what kind of pressure that puts the offensive line under? Do you? When they actually KNOW if it will be a run or pass?

 

3. It is pathetic coaching when pee wee football teams have an audible system yet the NFL football team Buffalo Bills did not. That's an outrage, that's moronic coaching that does not trust in their players.

 

 

Yet you will continue to blame the players because the 6 of 7 season loser head coach Dick Jauron has just had the sh_ttiest luck when it came to talent. It couldn't possibly be that he's a horrible head coach. I'm sorry, but every time I see you try to skew reality and knock the players, I'll be there to set the record straight. Your buddy Jaroun's departure from the Bills can not come soon enough for me.

Glad to know Jauron is my buddy

 

Where are you getting two missed blocks by Lynch- he had more than that. A lot more than that.

 

As far as it being pathetic not having an audible system....try telling that to Norv Turner, one of the most successful coaches of this generation. He doesn't use audibles.

 

Our line isn't good. We have 1 great lineman, 1 good one, one developing one, one below average, and one terrible one. Until that changes, we will not have much of an offense. You don't have to like it, but thats how it is.

[obie_wan]

Glad to know Jauron is my buddy

 

Where are you getting two missed blocks by Lynch- he had more than that. A lot more than that.

 

As far as it being pathetic not having an audible system....try telling that to Norv Turner, one of the most successful coaches of this generation. He doesn't use audibles.

 

Our line isn't good. We have 1 great lineman, 1 good one, one developing one, one below average, and one terrible one. Until that changes, we will not have much of an offense. You don't have to like it, but thats how it is.

 

Norv didn't need much in the way of audibles when Aikman's biggest job was to hand the ball to Emmit Smith.

 

If Norv did not use audibles, then he is more stupid than I thought. You don't voluntarily hamstring your offense by not using a valuable tool like an audible.

[Adam]

Norv didn't much in the way of audibles when Aikman's biggest job was to hand the ball to Emmit Smith.

 

If Norv did not use audibles, then he is more stupid than I thought. You don't voluntarily hamstring your offense by not using a valuable tool like a n audible.

Yes and no. Audibles can be helpful, but sometimes you have certain plays that are such staples that you become good enough at them to execute against tougher defenses.

[Pyrite Gal]

My answer is "I have no idea" if the O is going to improve from 32nd best in 08.

 

Sorry, but the arguments you present that the offense will improve are weak. Schonert is automatically better than Fairchild? That's just not a given as offensive performance is not determined by simply drawing names out of a hat. There is no evidence that Schonert is better or even knows what he is doing. He could be another bad experiment that just goes haywire. A rookie WR will force defenses to adjust to the offense based on his height but you don't expect him to be even as good as Peerless, who was below average (and missed most of 07 with a broken neck). You realize that Jauron likes his veterans because they represent fewer mistakes than rookies, right? And finally Edwards and Lynch will automatically be better than last year because its a new calendar year. Let's hope so, because a sophomore slump for either of those two could spell a long fugly season.

I pretty fully agree that Schonert will not automatically be better than Fairchild, but the sense of certainty that I have this his offense will be more productive than Fairchild's is that I agree with your comment in a later post that even a a toadstool should do better than Fairchild.

 

Its not guaranteed for sure, but little is in this life of ours and quite frankly my problem with many of the post which make predictions with a claim they are drop dead certain is that if this game was predictable it would certainly be boring to me.

 

I and some of folks whose views I respect the most on TSW (Simon has shown some great football understanding IMHO but I think he was flat out wrong in the amount of belief he seemed to put in Raion Hill, BADOL has shown not only great understanding of many football issues in my view but he has shown great diligence at times in researching key issues but I still think he places far too much import on the decision to let Clements walk as I think it is fairly clear that in his last season here Clements was a good player but not even in the top 5 of CBs in the NFL much less someone who should be paid the biggest contract ever given to a defensive player in the NFL which NC would have been dumb to sign for much less than that even if the Bills had offered it under the new CBA at the time and given the CB market NC was going to be overpaid a huge amount while the Bills were going to a D scheme which did not even get the most out of the good but not great NC talents). Even with folks I think a lot of I think they can be completely wrong about aspects of the game and this is more than true for me and my sometimes cockeyed views as well.

 

However, the odds seem to speak strongly for Schonert proving to have a more productive O than Fairchild. Think this because:

 

1. The afore-referenced low bar set by Fairchild. its just as likely even if all things were the same that someone else will screw the pooch even worse than a bad Schonert and because the game is so influenced by how the odd shaped ball bounces I think the Bills at least will be 31 instead of 32 even with a horrible Schonert.

 

2. Overall I do think HCs get too much credit and too much blame, but I think the Bills O with a new OC will be helped by the continuity of having the same HC. He has direct experience with what worked well and what worked poorly last year and should simply out of self-preservation help to keep the best and leave the rest in terms of the 08 offense compared to 07.

 

3. The continuity should also prove helpful in that the current Bills O braintrust should know better than anyone else what worked and what did not last year. The change of OCs provides the Bills with a great chance to throw out what did not work and keep what did work even if it was Fairchild instead of Schonert's idea,

 

4. The sophomore jinx is a reality and no one should assume that Lynch or Edwards will be better just because they are older. However, both have shown evidence that they are good players (though not great) and the likelihood for them is that now they will play like guys who have 1 years experience and improve their games rather than have sophomore slumps. They are not immune to failure but it is more likely I am pretty sure that they will improve.

 

5. Though thankfully they are beyond their sophomore years, the Bills OL did start 16 games together with the one miss being their consensus acknowledged best player. it seems quite likely that simply due to chemistry that the smart bet on this one is that OL improves and this is over a result which saw them give up a record fewest sacks.

 

Injury is the big danger here with the OL.

 

Its preseason and everyone is O-0. i simply do not see how anyone can be anything other than cautiously optimistic about this O. I think the fact that I believe they will be better but still fall short of being good enough (yet) reflects a pretty reasonable cautious optimism. Like you Nobody KNOWs for sure what will happen but cautious optimism is certainly warranted by the facts on the ground.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Our line were pretty good blockers last year in the passing game. Do you even watch the games? Marshawn missed about two blitzes all year, and so to you that equates to he has trouble stopping blitzing cheerleaders. I've now come to expect this stuff coming from the biggest coaching apologist here.

 

 

Let me clue you in...

 

1. Marshawn should have been running routes and NOT pass blocking. Trent has a quick release and dumping the ball off to Marshawn should have been a staple play in our offense. It wasn't one because our coaching was moronic.

 

2. The defenses KNEW what plays the Bills were going to run prior to the ball being snapped. National commentators were correctly calling plays before the ball was snapped. This is because every time Trent made a fake audible with arm movements the Bills would of course run the ball. The Bills consistently ran the ball on first and second downs. This offense was the most predictable offense that I've ever seen. Do you know what kind of pressure that puts the offensive line under? Do you? When they actually KNOW if it will be a run or pass?

 

3. It is pathetic coaching when pee wee football teams have an audible system yet the NFL football team Buffalo Bills did not. That's an outrage, that's moronic coaching that does not trust in their players.

 

 

Yet you will continue to blame the players because the 6 of 7 season loser head coach Dick Jauron has just had the sh_ttiest luck when it came to talent. It couldn't possibly be that he's a horrible head coach. I'm sorry, but every time I see you try to skew reality and knock the players, I'll be there to set the record straight. Your buddy Jaroun's departure from the Bills can not come soon enough for me.

But what does this have to do with Dick Jauron? Where is his fault, other than hiring Fairchild? If Belihick committed an error in hiring an inept offensive coordinator as Jauron did, he wouldn't have any answers mid-season either. Because they don't know anything about offense.

 

Everything you've listed is on Fairchild, not on Jauron. DJ gets some blame spilled over, no doubt, for his part in Fairchild's hiring...but the particulars that caused the offense to be so ineffective can't be put on him, unless you can somehow prove Jauron isn't as laissez-faire with his offense as we believe.

[1billsfan]

But what does this have to do with Dick Jauron? Where is his fault, other than hiring Fairchild? If Belihick committed an error in hiring an inept offensive coordinator as Jauron did, he wouldn't have any answers mid-season either. Because they don't know anything about offense.

 

Everything you've listed is on Fairchild, not on Jauron. DJ gets some blame spilled over, no doubt, for his part in Fairchild's hiring...but the particulars that caused the offense to be so ineffective can't be put on him, unless you can somehow prove Jauron isn't as laissez-faire with his offense as we believe.

 

 

If you've been a head coach in the NFL for 7 years and STILL do not know anything about offense then you are NOT cut out to be an NFL head coach. You should go back to being a defensive coordinator. One of the jobs of being a head coach is to make CHANGES when things are clearly not working whether it's special teams, defense or OFFENSE. He was either grossly negligent in his duties last year, he was on board with what Fairchild was doing and/or had a hand in the pathetically predictable offense. None of these three scenarios are good if you're a Bills fan. Do you really support a head coach who just shrugs his shoulders and says, "Hey, I don't know anything about offense. What do you want me to do?". This guy is a moron if he STILL doesn't know anything about offense and how to best use his offensive players on Sunday. I can not believe the pass this guy gets with the press and the fans. It's unbelievable.

[obie_wan]

But what does this have to do with Dick Jauron? Where is his fault, other than hiring Fairchild? If Belihick committed an error in hiring an inept offensive coordinator as Jauron did, he wouldn't have any answers mid-season either. Because they don't know anything about offense.

 

Everything you've listed is on Fairchild, not on Jauron. DJ gets some blame spilled over, no doubt, for his part in Fairchild's hiring...but the particulars that caused the offense to be so ineffective can't be put on him, unless you can somehow prove Jauron isn't as laissez-faire with his offense as we believe.

 

 

He does not know anything about offense - that's your excuse for Jauron??!!

 

 

 

 

Jauron is the HC.

 

He does not live in a cave.

 

He is an Ivy league grad for pete's sake.

 

He can handle understanding a few things about how an offense runs - especially since he defensed them all of his life.

 

If teh team does not have audibles and are consistently getting stuffed, especially on 3rd down - then he is at fault for not mandating that teh OC institute an audible system, as simple as it may need to be.

 

There is no excuse for incompetence due to stupidity on his watch.

[K-9]

For anyone, ANYONE to assert that HCs that were DCs don't know anything about offense is absolutely the most ludicrous bunch of BS I've ever read in this forum. And that's saying something! It's ignorance bordering on complete stupidity. And if that offends anyone who might have that feeling so be it. Belichik NOT KNOW OFFENSE? Jauron not know offense? After spending entire careers devising schemes to defend them? Very successful schemes? Hell, it could be argued that they know MORE about a given offense because they are so adept at exploiting the vulnerabilities in that offense.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

I pretty fully agree that Schonert will not automatically be better than Fairchild, but the sense of certainty that I have this his offense will be more productive than Fairchild's is that I agree with your comment in a later post that even a a toadstool should do better than Fairchild.

 

Its not guaranteed for sure, but little is in this life of ours and quite frankly my problem with many of the post which make predictions with a claim they are drop dead certain is that if this game was predictable it would certainly be boring to me.

 

I and some of folks whose views I respect the most on TSW (Simon has shown some great football understanding IMHO but I think he was flat out wrong in the amount of belief he seemed to put in Raion Hill, BADOL has shown not only great understanding of many football issues in my view but he has shown great diligence at times in researching key issues but I still think he places far too much import on the decision to let Clements walk as I think it is fairly clear that in his last season here Clements was a good player but not even in the top 5 of CBs in the NFL much less someone who should be paid the biggest contract ever given to a defensive player in the NFL which NC would have been dumb to sign for much less than that even if the Bills had offered it under the new CBA at the time and given the CB market NC was going to be overpaid a huge amount while the Bills were going to a D scheme which did not even get the most out of the good but not great NC talents). Even with folks I think a lot of I think they can be completely wrong about aspects of the game and this is more than true for me and my sometimes cockeyed views as well.

 

However, the odds seem to speak strongly for Schonert proving to have a more productive O than Fairchild. Think this because:

 

1. The afore-referenced low bar set by Fairchild. its just as likely even if all things were the same that someone else will screw the pooch even worse than a bad Schonert and because the game is so influenced by how the odd shaped ball bounces I think the Bills at least will be 31 instead of 32 even with a horrible Schonert.

 

2. Overall I do think HCs get too much credit and too much blame, but I think the Bills O with a new OC will be helped by the continuity of having the same HC. He has direct experience with what worked well and what worked poorly last year and should simply out of self-preservation help to keep the best and leave the rest in terms of the 08 offense compared to 07.

 

3. The continuity should also prove helpful in that the current Bills O braintrust should know better than anyone else what worked and what did not last year. The change of OCs provides the Bills with a great chance to throw out what did not work and keep what did work even if it was Fairchild instead of Schonert's idea,

 

4. The sophomore jinx is a reality and no one should assume that Lynch or Edwards will be better just because they are older. However, both have shown evidence that they are good players (though not great) and the likelihood for them is that now they will play like guys who have 1 years experience and improve their games rather than have sophomore slumps. They are not immune to failure but it is more likely I am pretty sure that they will improve.

 

5. Though thankfully they are beyond their sophomore years, the Bills OL did start 16 games together with the one miss being their consensus acknowledged best player. it seems quite likely that simply due to chemistry that the smart bet on this one is that OL improves and this is over a result which saw them give up a record fewest sacks.

 

Injury is the big danger here with the OL.

 

Its preseason and everyone is O-0. i simply do not see how anyone can be anything other than cautiously optimistic about this O. I think the fact that I believe they will be better but still fall short of being good enough (yet) reflects a pretty reasonable cautious optimism. Like you Nobody KNOWs for sure what will happen but cautious optimism is certainly warranted by the facts on the ground.

I'm hopeful that Turk Schonert can get this group playing better. That doesn't mean I am completely certain or even expect that it is going to happen. My optimism is based solely on the belief that the Bills have some good offensive players and that those players, hopefully, come to work in 08 and their coaches have a better plan. Continuity is about all that's left to hang your hat on, but that is a double edged sword. Continuity would usher in optimistic feelings if the offense had shown steadily improved play over the course of 07. But, it did not. So, continuity could just mean more of the same decline and poor execution. And, I'm not so quick to suspend my disbelief and assume that the only problem in 07 was Steve Fairchild.