lets_go_bills Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 That's about where we belong until we prove otherwise. If Stroud is healthy, McCargo emerges, and Schobel hits double digits again we would be top-ten. Maybe even top-five. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 It is clear that they are assessing teams based not only on the quality of starters but the quality of the depth of their rotations. There are a number of 3-4 teams at the top of their board who have better quality of depth than we do as a 4-3 team, and consequently they recognize that we might be a little bit better than the bottom-of-the-league line that we fielded last year, but there’s a huge gap between us and the best teams in football. This gap is the one that will only be filled by adding another quality DT to our rotation. While we have some small percentage of our fan-base who went Pollyanna on the moves of the off-season, this is a more reasonable assessment. And it’s the #1 cause for concern about once again being pushed down the field for much of the 2008 campaign as we once again paid too little attention to what IMO is the single most important position in the contemporary NFL. But, but, having some depth is overrated and a waste of cap money! So I've read here, anyway. (I thought 22 seemed fairly generous, considering. Afterall, Stroud is only 25% of the DL, assuming he plays every snap.) Seems like a fair ranking, 1 good edge rusher, and a rotational player posing as a starter by default options, until Chris Ellis can prove otherwise. Unknown dt situation. This whole "We don't have a starter at dt" rhetoric annoys me. Ideally you should have 2 players, who can start the majority of snaps. Yeah rotation is nice, but the idea is rotation for the sake of rotation says you don't trust the guys you have. Your defense shouldn't be on the field for that many plays in a game that you're seeing your #3 and #4 dt's all that much. If you are it's cause your defense is generally really bad. Sub packages, are one thing, a 50/50 split, speaks to lack of talent. I probably would rank them lower. Stroud is nice, and hopefully McCargo, can take that next step. Spencher Johnson is a question mark, and Kyle Williams is good depth. The de's other then Schobel are all blah. Bingo! If a coach has a Bryant Young at DT and is trotting him off the field every other play, he is either outsmarting himself or he doesn't really have a Bryant Young. Part of the reason Spencer Johnson is a rather unknown quantity is precisely because the Vikings coaches left the Williams monsters on the field -- because the Williams guys are fuggin good players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 That's about where we belong until we prove otherwise. If Stroud is healthy, McCargo emerges, and Schobel hits double digits again we would be top-ten. Maybe even top-five. Schobel is a good player- and he does some things very well. The problem is that he has shown that he can focus on stopping the run (which he improved in immensely last year) or rush the passer. It is getting late in his career and he has yet to show he can focus on doing both. And the problem is that after him, the quality of our DE's drops right off a cliff. Anyone expecting Stroud to make our other DE's a lot better is asking a heck of a lot. The talent just isn't there- and we still are hoping that Stroud is healthy. That said- I really do think our D will be significantly better this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 But, but, having some depth is overrated and a waste of cap money! So I've read here, anyway. (I thought 22 seemed fairly generous, considering. Afterall, Stroud is only 25% of the DL, assuming he plays every snap.) If Stroud were only going to have to play 25% of the downs the season, he'd have a heck of a lot better chance of being in 16 games than he has the way I think they're intending to use him, which is on rushing downs. Some defenses limit rushing downs- we're at this moment a defense that invites them. If we assume (IMO logically, but I haven't seen him play yet and don't know if he has an exceptional ground-holding technique for a DE-sized DT) that there's little chance they intend to use the 275 pound Johnson as a regular in the rotation on rushing downs, we should see a lot more reps for Stroud as long as the rush is a big threat to us each game. I don't think anyone expects the AFC East to change in 2008 to a passing conference. Problem is that Marcus effectively played UT in the Jag's scheme and was never the run stopper. The effect of a great gap push on rushing downs in the Cover-2 is clear- make consistent tackles in the backfield while giving up occasionally the bigger run and upset the ultimate down/distance rythym of the offense, but winning with the odds on that is a big gamble. It's incredibly optimistic to imagine seeing the Stroud of 2002/3, especially when he'll hardly be playing next to John Henderson in anything but a few Bills' fan fantasies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 If Stroud were only going to have to play 25% I meant 25% of the DL as in he's only 1 guy out of 4. If the other 3 suck (not saying they do btw), it doesn't really matter if Stroud comes back as All World or not. And if he is All World and they spin him in and out of a lineup that has little else going for it, is that really a good thing? That's all. of the downs the season, he'd have a heck of a lot better chance of being in 16 games than he has the way I think they're intending to use him, which is on rushing downs. Some defenses limit rushing downs- we're at this moment a defense that invites them. If we assume (logically) that there's little chance they intend to use the 275 pound Johnson as a regular in the rotation on rushing downs, we should see a lot more of Stroud as long as the rush is a big threat to us. Yeah, I suspect Johnson will come in on passing downs. While it is sort of the rage in the NFL now to flop down a pass rushing DE to DT, the Bills may actually flip Johnson out to DE. I don't think anyone expects the AFC East to change in 2008 to a passing conference. Problem is that Marcus effectively played UT in the Jags scheme and was never the run stopper. The effect of a great gap push on rushing downs in the Cover-2 is clear- make consistent tackles in the backfield while giving up occasionally the bigger run and upset the ultimate down/distance rythym of the offense, but winning with the odds on that is a big gamble. It's incredibly optimistic to imagine seeing the Stroud of 2002/3, especially when he'll hardly be playing next to John Henderson in anything but a few Bills' fan fantasies. The other thing about that is that Johnson and McCargo are more 3s. Are they going to put Stroud there and keep Williams at the 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKC Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 The other thing about that is that Johnson and McCargo are more 3s. Are they going to put Stroud there and keep Williams at the 1? The press so far is that they claim we're going to play a pure Cover-2 with a pair of 3 techniques as the base D. I'm thinking myself that the Tampa 2 "upgrade" was the version with the success in the league- a 0/1 at NT and a 3 at UT. Tampa/Chicago/Indy all made the stage playing it that way. It strikes me as very strange that if you want to be the first to do it with two 3s on the field you'd pick a declining Marcus Stroud as the premier DT in your rotation- just from the burst standpoint. I have to assume the ideal in the "double 3" interior would rely on two guys with an exceptional initial 3 steps, and Stroud's last few campaign's say he's definitely not that guy. But maybe that is the Johnson role- we give up big runs with some regularity but we balance that with a lot of 3rd and 9s. Seems incredibly risky but it might be the best, and most likely, use of the talent on the roster. And no doubt, McCargo, no matter the (substantial) size of his lower body, still plays above his waist and therefore will always be a 3. Funny thing is that Williams- with maybe 1/4 the athleticism of McCargo, is a natural playing low, but we've so far been asking him to play high! Maybe they allow him to go back to his natural technique this year. He could prove to be the better DT pick from that draft if he is encouraged to submarine the OLine as a prominent member of the rotation. The bad news is it doesn't fit the scheme we're being fed publicly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted July 17, 2008 Share Posted July 17, 2008 It strikes me as very strange that if you want to be the first to do it with two 3s on the field you'd pick a declining Marcus Stroud as the premier DT in your rotation- just from the burst standpoint. I have to assume the ideal in the "double 3" interior would rely on two guys with an exceptional initial 3 steps, and Stroud's last few campaign's say he's definitely not that guy. And again, this assumption is based on...what? Because the Jags traded him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted July 18, 2008 Share Posted July 18, 2008 When it comes to most of what ESPN reports about the Bills, I take it with a grain of salt because they have already shown their bias against our franchise in their reporting. All except for Berman that is Boomer. But I've realized that the birds say it all. If you ever go through Bristol, CT you will notice that they fly upside down. It's pretty amazing. Reason being, there's nothing the birds feel is even worthy of crapping on in that place Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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