DTs looking strong

[Ramius]

that's why a guy that is 6'-6" and 310# has teh leverage to be a gap shooter but not the bulk in his butt to anchor playing on the nose.

 

If teh Bills improve against the run, it will be because the DL is causing havoc in the backfield, not because they are overpowering and "stuffing" anyone.

 

Thats exactly the point of the cover-2.

 

But also, Stroud doesnt need to be 350 to take up 2 blockers. If he consistently draws the double team, it frees up our other linemen to make disruptive plays in the backfield. He doesnt have to clog anything like big ted did (obviously he cant get blown off the ball). By him drawing 2, you have 1-on-1 battles along the rest of the DL, and then you dont have OL getting to the second level, which subsequently frees up our LBs to make plays.

[lets_go_bills]

Great read. Thanks for that RockPile. This highlighted the well known fact that when Fat Pat left town, so did our run-stopping ability. I hope Stroud is healthy, because if so, we could be looking at a top-ten defence this year. He's that good. I think that the McCargo/Johnson/Williams traing camp battle should be a fierce one, and the one to keep an eye on. It should bring out the best in all of them, which can only benefit our team. Regardless, it looks like a very promising DT rotation, one that should have great success and open things up for everyone else on the D.

 

Thanks again for the article.

[bills_fan]

If anyone buys that Stroud is 310, there a certain bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to talk to you about...

[BillsVet]

The Bills spent so much on the DL because you need a good rotation of DTs, especially on a cover-2 team where you do NOT have 2 DTs playing 75% of the snaps. Not to mention that Spencer Johnson will be playing some DE as well.

 

Secondly, on the topic of starters, Anthony Thomas was "starting" over Fred Jackson for a while last year. Jauron tends to give his vets the "starting nod" over younger players, even if they are better, and/or have more upside. Also, what does "starting" matter when they rotate. Say Kyle Williams plays the first play of the game, and then McCargo plays more plays? Sure Williams is the "starter," but in reality it doesnt mean much.

 

Buffalo's run defense was 25th in the league in RYPG and 31st in YPG allowed last year. McCargo and Williams were significant contributors all season long, but seem to be part of the problem and not answer. Enter Stroud and Spencer Johnson. Neither of them are being paid to watch from the sideline and will get plenty of snaps. While Johnson has the ability to play DE, I suspect that he's getting paid to push for a starting spot at DT. Unless Ryan Denney is cut, and I don't see that happening, Johnson will be the fourth DE.

 

Buffalo has a great deal of money invested in their DL with Schobel, Stroud, Kelsay, Sp. Johnson, Williams, Denney, and McCargo getting paid big dollars to put pressure on the QB and stop the run. Every one of those guys was either drafted or re-signed by the current regime minus Marv. If they can't perform, the front office oughta be completely revamped.

[stinky finger]

If anyone buys that Stroud is 310, there a certain bridge in Brooklyn I'd like to talk to you about...

He's 310.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

minus his skeleton, organs and fatty tissue.

[RockPile007]

No problem.

 

It's definitely going to be interesting at camp...who's gonna step up? Bankin' on Williams next to Stroud here

 

 

Great read. Thanks for that RockPile. This highlighted the well known fact that when Fat Pat left town, so did our run-stopping ability. I hope Stroud is healthy, because if so, we could be looking at a top-ten defence this year. He's that good. I think that the McCargo/Johnson/Williams traing camp battle should be a fierce one, and the one to keep an eye on. It should bring out the best in all of them, which can only benefit our team. Regardless, it looks like a very promising DT rotation, one that should have great success and open things up for everyone else on the D.

 

Thanks again for the article.

[VOR]

Buffalo's run defense was 25th in the league in RYPG and 31st in YPG allowed last year. McCargo and Williams were significant contributors all season long, but seem to be part of the problem and not answer.

I'd say the guy they released, Larry Tripplett, was the major part of the problem.

[obie_wan]

I'd say the guy they released, Larry Tripplett, was the major part of the problem.

 

gotta agree that Triplett was a big part of the problem -

 

so what possible explanation is there for continuing to play Triplett ahead of McCargo?

 

Was McCargo injured and couldn;t handle more snaps?

 

Are the coaches so commited to the loyalty that bad players can't be replaced mid-season?

[krazykat]

It's a pay article, but here's the pasted piece....

If it's a pay article, shouldn't you respect that and just post excerpts in order to respect copyright laws?

[VOR]

gotta agree that Triplett was a big part of the problem -

 

so what possible explanation is there for continuing to play Triplett ahead of McCargo?

 

Was McCargo injured and couldn;t handle more snaps?

 

Are the coaches so commited to the loyalty that bad players can't be replaced mid-season?

Well for starters, the Bills new regime went out and signed Tripplett to a decent-sized be their 3-tech DT in the cover-2, with which he was familiar since he played in it in Indy. So experience and money likely played a factor. McCargo broke his foot his rookie year and had another surgery over the off-season, and missed significant time prior to training camp, so he was behind. Conditioning might have also been a factor. Since he's been healthy all off-season this time, there should be a noticeable improvement.

 

As for replacing Tripplett mid-season, I can't answer for certain why they didn't make McCargo the starter. Again maybe it was conditioning? Maybe that with the rotation they employed, it wouldn't have made a real difference.

[Ramius]

Buffalo's run defense was 25th in the league in RYPG and 31st in YPG allowed last year. McCargo and Williams were significant contributors all season long, but seem to be part of the problem and not answer. Enter Stroud and Spencer Johnson. Neither of them are being paid to watch from the sideline and will get plenty of snaps. While Johnson has the ability to play DE, I suspect that he's getting paid to push for a starting spot at DT. Unless Ryan Denney is cut, and I don't see that happening, Johnson will be the fourth DE.

 

Buffalo has a great deal of money invested in their DL with Schobel, Stroud, Kelsay, Sp. Johnson, Williams, Denney, and McCargo getting paid big dollars to put pressure on the QB and stop the run. Every one of those guys was either drafted or re-signed by the current regime minus Marv. If they can't perform, the front office oughta be completely revamped.

 

I dont see how you can say McCargo and Williams were "part of the problem." Larry tripplett was definitely part of the problem, but mccargo and williams were simply 2nd year players. to pin the problems on them is simply foolish. I for one feel that they will continue to get better in the upcoming year or so. Most people realize that DTs take a while to completely hit their stride, and few dominate from the get go in their 1st season or 2. With an upgraded defense across the board, we'll have a better change to truly see the talents of those 2 guys.

[stuckincincy]

Sure Williams is the "starter," but in reality it doesnt mean much.

 

Off-topic, but it does have money implications.

 

# of starts is often an item in a contract. Starters who miss the first few plays because of some infraction like missing a meeting lose cash. It can be leverage for management. Also, contract money for earning starter status is a good incentive for a player to try harder, play better.

 

On the flip side, there are owners like CIN's Brown, who used to demand this or that starter sit so he could avoid the pay-out.

[tombstone56]

well - we paid a lot

 

hopefully we get production of the field.

 

Stroud may be a good player - but he only weighs 310 pounds and is 6'-6" - not exactly the prototypical DT. I do believe this author's optimism in his abilty to tie up numberous blockers and stuff the run all by himself is being just slightly exagerated.

 

o you seriously believe STOUD is only 310 ?? try like 350 310 was his rookie weight i think/

[VOR]

o you seriously believe STOUD is only 310 ?? try like 350 310 was his rookie weight i think/

310 is the weight that gets listed so that he can make his target-weight bonus.

[ax4782]

I dont see how you can say McCargo and Williams were "part of the problem." Larry tripplett was definitely part of the problem, but mccargo and williams were simply 2nd year players. to pin the problems on them is simply foolish. I for one feel that they will continue to get better in the upcoming year or so. Most people realize that DTs take a while to completely hit their stride, and few dominate from the get go in their 1st season or 2. With an upgraded defense across the board, we'll have a better change to truly see the talents of those 2 guys.

 

This is the most sensible post concerning the DT situation that I have seen in this entire thread. Many people just don't understand the Cover-2 system, or the issues that we had on the line. Triplett was not big enough or talented enough to play at the 1 Tech where he was playing last year, but that's where he was. Williams also had to play a lot of 1 in rotation and he isn't big enough to play there either. McCargo was essentially a rookie who got rookie reps but played very well in the time that he got. We were terribly undersized last year out there and both Williams and Triplett were playing out of position and getting pushed off the ball.

 

On top of that, two of our rotational guys were only second year players, one of whom missed 13 games of his rookie season and most of the offseason because of a serious foot injury. That appears to be behind McCargo now and I expect him to be very good for us this season. People whine that we didn't get Ngata, but to be fair, he hasn't been that great of a DT. His stats for last year and career are:

 

2007: 63 Tackles 43 Solo 19 Assists 3 Sacks 1 FF 1 Pass Defensed

Career: 94 Tackles 58 Solo 36 Assists 4 Sacks 1 FF 1 INT 3 Passes Defensed

 

That is with 32 career starts in Baltimore.

Compare that with McCargo's Stats in 21 games

 

2007: 29 Tackles 20 Solo 9 Assists 2.5 Sacks 1 FF 4 Passes Defensed

Career 35 Tackles 25 Solo 10 Assists 2.5 Sacks 1 FF 5 Passes Defensed

 

Considering that Ngata is an almost everydown starter and McCargo has had significantly less playing time in Buffalo, I'd say that statistically, if McCargo were an every down starter, his numbers would be higher and more impressive than Ngata's. He has just as many FFs, was only a half sack shy of Ngata last season in what was admittedly limited action, and has a higher percentage of solo tackles to total tackle ratio in his career than Ngata. That shows an ability to get into the backfield and make plays when it counts. So, I don't really think that saying McCargo sucks and was a reach is much of a statement. The fact is, his injury and limited playing time have had more to do with his lower overall statistics than anything else. When he gets on the field this year, and has more playing time, I think it will become very clear that he was not a reach and that he was a first round worthy pick. But, I'm sure there are some who will happily argue about the statistics and try and find reasons to say that the DT rotation just isn't any good and that McCargo will suck.

[AKC]

Ngata hasn't been that great of a DT.

 

No one who has ever actually keyed on Ngata's play as a Pro would promote such utter nonsense- McCargo as somehow the equal of Ngata? Ngata controls the whole flow of his own defense and the opposing offense is forced to play around him.

 

This kind of misunderstanding of the game of football demonstrates the confusion some have about the contribution to the overall defense that's made at the DT position. You have Ngata, a dominant force who allows his 10 teammates to do things they would not otherwise be free to do with a lesser player in front of them, making his defense better with his domination, and at the same time we have a fan, who for his desire to promote his lack of understanding, seeks to diminish Ngata's contributions by making the claim that statistics show something that play on the field has proven to be a laughable premise- that John McCargo has in any way been the equal of Haloti Ngata up to this point in their careers.

[Ramius]

This is the most sensible post concerning the DT situation that I have seen in this entire thread. Many people just don't understand the Cover-2 system, or the issues that we had on the line. Triplett was not big enough or talented enough to play at the 1 Tech where he was playing last year, but that's where he was. Williams also had to play a lot of 1 in rotation and he isn't big enough to play there either. McCargo was essentially a rookie who got rookie reps but played very well in the time that he got. We were terribly undersized last year out there and both Williams and Triplett were playing out of position and getting pushed off the ball.

 

On top of that, two of our rotational guys were only second year players, one of whom missed 13 games of his rookie season and most of the offseason because of a serious foot injury. That appears to be behind McCargo now and I expect him to be very good for us this season. People whine that we didn't get Ngata, but to be fair, he hasn't been that great of a DT. His stats for last year and career are:

 

2007: 63 Tackles 43 Solo 19 Assists 3 Sacks 1 FF 1 Pass Defensed

Career: 94 Tackles 58 Solo 36 Assists 4 Sacks 1 FF 1 INT 3 Passes Defensed

 

That is with 32 career starts in Baltimore.

Compare that with McCargo's Stats in 21 games

 

2007: 29 Tackles 20 Solo 9 Assists 2.5 Sacks 1 FF 4 Passes Defensed

Career 35 Tackles 25 Solo 10 Assists 2.5 Sacks 1 FF 5 Passes Defensed

 

Considering that Ngata is an almost everydown starter and McCargo has had significantly less playing time in Buffalo, I'd say that statistically, if McCargo were an every down starter, his numbers would be higher and more impressive than Ngata's. He has just as many FFs, was only a half sack shy of Ngata last season in what was admittedly limited action, and has a higher percentage of solo tackles to total tackle ratio in his career than Ngata. That shows an ability to get into the backfield and make plays when it counts. So, I don't really think that saying McCargo sucks and was a reach is much of a statement. The fact is, his injury and limited playing time have had more to do with his lower overall statistics than anything else. When he gets on the field this year, and has more playing time, I think it will become very clear that he was not a reach and that he was a first round worthy pick. But, I'm sure there are some who will happily argue about the statistics and try and find reasons to say that the DT rotation just isn't any good and that McCargo will suck.

 

 

Good post, but its tough to compare McCargo to Ngata stat wise and play wise. While listed as a DT, Ngata plays the DE position on the ravens 3-4 defense. The ravens are a unique team in that they do not employ the traditional DE's and DTs. If you look on their roster, they list around 7 DTs, while only 1 DE. They line up 3 "DTs" at all 3 line positions. Kelly Gregg was holding the DT position last year, with Ngata as DE.