JasoninMT Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I would like to propose a moratorium on the JP vs Edwards debate for now... Namely because the decision has already been made by the Bills... Whether you agree with it or not, it's pointless to argue about it at this point among ourselves. (Can't we all get along?) Now to what I wanted to say on topic... I think it's very premature for CB to start comparing Turk to Wyche, Weis, and Walsh (sounds like a law firm). I know CB likes to talk the party line since he works for the Bills at the website... but Turk hasn't even done one Training Camp yet as OC - and while Edwards showed a glimpse of promise to some people... Well, lets just say he isn't Boomer, Brady, or Montana just yet... And that was with working with the "Amazing Prodigy" of Turk Schonert. (very tongue in cheek, not meaning to diss on Turk, just point out he's not W,W, or W yet) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordio Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Precisely, JP has NEVER laid undisputed claim to the job. Precisely, he's NEVER took a hold of it and removed ALL doubt that the job is his. Precisely, JP have NEVER shown the consistency required to be a successful starter in the NFL. Now of course you and others will argue vehemently that JP was mishandled from the start and that the Bills are the blueprint for fu*king up a young QB. And perhaps you and everyone else is correct about that. Still doesn't change the fact that JP NEVER took a stranglehold on the job when given the opportunities to do just that. I have no doubt he'll show up, work hard, be the consumate team player, and wait for his next opportunity. And when that next opportunity comes, I hope he'll FINALLY grab the job by the balls and remove any doubt as to who the best QB on the team really is. GO BILLS!!! Once again K-9, excellent points all the way around. You are the one poster on this board that has a correct handle on the pulse of the QB situation on this team. As far as TC last season, let me first say I only went to three of them. But I became very concerned because all three camps that I went to the offense looked better when Edwards was under center then when Losman was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 I have no doubt he'll show up, work hard, be the consumate team player, and wait for his next opportunity. And when that next opportunity comes, I hope he'll FINALLY grab the job by the balls and remove any doubt as to who the best QB on the team really is. GO BILLS!!! The comment above is what I was taking issue with. I misinterpreted your comments to say that you don't believe what you've written above, so I stand corrected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted July 10, 2008 Share Posted July 10, 2008 Ummm...just because the OTAs aren't open to "the public" doesn't mean no one is there. And just because someone is on this message board doesn't mean they're considered "the public" by the Bills. More than a few people on this board have access to the team beyond what "the public" is allowed. That's what Christmas is all about, Charlie Brown. Yeah, based on the world-class TSW flatulance in recent weeks, I'll believe there are posters with access (other than #89, etc.) when this guy's voted People's Sexiest Man... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Actually, I recall a much different story from last year's OTA's. I'm pretty sure I remember John Clayton doing a story from Bills camp where he stated that JP looked razor sharp running the offense. I specifically remember that he said JP was hitting his receivers in stride and that he didn't remember seeing a single pass hit the ground. After hearing his report I was so incredibly excited about the offense the Bills would be running and I had high hopes for the playoffs (we all know how that turned out). As for this year, I have heard mixed reports about Trent Edwards. I've read where he has had good days and bad days. Sharp passes and good decisions wrapped around interceptions and bad decisions. This is to be expected with the installation of a new offensive with new plays, new philosophies, and a brand new offensive coordinator. Knowing what I know about how difficult it is to change an offense in one offseason, I expect Buffalo to start out slowly right out of the gates and then hopefully things start humming along 4-5 days into the season. I know we all want Buffalo to start off red hot this season, but that may not be realistic. It certainly is a possibility, but I'm trying not to wear my rose colored glasses this season.Go Bills! The days part is a typo, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 I would like to propose a moratorium on the JP vs Edwards debate for now... Namely because the decision has already been made by the Bills... Whether you agree with it or not, it's pointless to argue about it at this point among ourselves. (Can't we all get along?) The debate will end when Trent proves on the field for an entire season that he's worthy of the starting position. It's really that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The debate will end when Trent proves on the field for an entire season that he's worthy of the starting position. It's really that simple. Don't choo know anything? Well that chapter is going to be delayed for two years after Brett signs with The Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Precisely, JP has NEVER laid undisputed claim to the job. Precisely, he's NEVER took a hold of it and removed ALL doubt that the job is his. Precisely, JP have NEVER shown the consistency required to be a successful starter in the NFL. Now of course you and others will argue vehemently that JP was mishandled from the start and that the Bills are the blueprint for fu*king up a young QB. And perhaps you and everyone else is correct about that. Still doesn't change the fact that JP NEVER took a stranglehold on the job when given the opportunities to do just that. I have no doubt he'll show up, work hard, be the consumate team player, and wait for his next opportunity. And when that next opportunity comes, I hope he'll FINALLY grab the job by the balls and remove any doubt as to who the best QB on the team really is. GO BILLS!!! What do you say to the argument that neither QB has been given a real shot yet. JP Losman was wrongly inserted in both his first and second years in the league, instead of developing behind a veteran like Bledsoe, while we aquire NFL caliber talent (which we still are looking for). Edwards was thrown in as a rookie, and now people think he can play like a veteran. Both have been set up to fail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ax4782 Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 The debate will end when Trent proves on the field for an entire season that he's worthy of the starting position. It's really that simple. Excellent point. I totally agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted July 13, 2008 Share Posted July 13, 2008 Don't choo know anything?Well that chapter is going to be delayed for two years after Brett signs with The Bills. I'm OK with that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Days Lois & Clark Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Turk did wonders devoping QB's such as Aaron Brooks, Rob Johnson, JP Losman, & Chris Weinke. He also coached Vinnie Testerverdy & Kerri Collins among their worst seasons in the NFL. Turk is fortunate to have a job in the NFL. We can only hope that he will be a better OC than he was a QB coach Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 What do you say to the argument that neither QB has been given a real shot yet. JP Losman was wrongly inserted in both his first and second years in the league, instead of developing behind a veteran like Bledsoe, while we aquire NFL caliber talent (which we still are looking for). Edwards was thrown in as a rookie, and now people think he can play like a veteran. Both have been set up to fail. I say nothing to that argument because it's moot relative to my point. As I implied in my post, the Bills may be the poster child franchise for "how to rush a QB and f*ck up his development." Still doesn't change the fact the JP didn't capitalize on his opportunities, rushed or not. Still doesn't change the fact that Edwards may indeed do the same thing. All ANY player at ANY position can ask for is the OPPORTUNITY. In my book, that's being set up to SUCCEED, not fail as you say. Guess it depends how you look at it. Right now, Edwards is being set up to succeed. If/when JP gets another opportunity, and he most likely will, he, too, will have another opportunity to succeed. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IDBillzFan Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 All ANY player at ANY position can ask for is the OPPORTUNITY. In my book, that's being set up to SUCCEED, not fail as you say. Giving someone an opportunity to succeed and setting someone up to succeed are radically different from each other. I appreciate the "zero tolerance for failure" thing as it probably plays well in the boardroom, but in the end, if you give someone an opportunity to succeed, and then do nothing but take steps to help them fail -- as you acknowledge the team has done -- then the only thing you're doing is giving someone an opportunity in which you have set them up to fail. People are people. Water. Flesh. Bones. And limitations at countless levels. If you are going to give someone an opportunity, then you owe it to the person to do everything you can to set them up to succeed. You can't stand there and say "Hey, I gave you the chance. That's all you should need," unless you're trying to impress your boss in the corner office. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that such an approach is about as irresponsible and lazy as a person can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Giving someone an opportunity to succeed and setting someone up to succeed are radically different from each other. I appreciate the "zero tolerance for failure" thing as it probably plays well in the boardroom, but in the end, if you give someone an opportunity to succeed, and then do nothing but take steps to help them fail -- as you acknowledge the team has done -- then the only thing you're doing is giving someone an opportunity in which you have set them up to fail. People are people. Water. Flesh. Bones. And limitations at countless levels. If you are going to give someone an opportunity, then you owe it to the person to do everything you can to set them up to succeed. You can't stand there and say "Hey, I gave you the chance. That's all you should need," unless you're trying to impress your boss in the corner office. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that such an approach is about as irresponsible and lazy as a person can get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K-9 Posted July 14, 2008 Share Posted July 14, 2008 Giving someone an opportunity to succeed and setting someone up to succeed are radically different from each other. I appreciate the "zero tolerance for failure" thing as it probably plays well in the boardroom, but in the end, if you give someone an opportunity to succeed, and then do nothing but take steps to help them fail -- as you acknowledge the team has done -- then the only thing you're doing is giving someone an opportunity in which you have set them up to fail. People are people. Water. Flesh. Bones. And limitations at countless levels. If you are going to give someone an opportunity, then you owe it to the person to do everything you can to set them up to succeed. You can't stand there and say "Hey, I gave you the chance. That's all you should need," unless you're trying to impress your boss in the corner office. In fact, I'd go so far as to suggest that such an approach is about as irresponsible and lazy as a person can get. I appreciate your point although I think the analogy to the business world is a bit extreme. Clearly the Bills didn't give JP just ONE chance and then mercilessly jetison him. They will give Edwards every opportunity to squander the opportunity as well. GO BILLS!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 I appreciate your point although I think the analogy to the business world is a bit extreme. Clearly the Bills didn't give JP just ONE chance and then mercilessly jetison him. They will give Edwards every opportunity to squander the opportunity as well. Why is it extreme? It's a different sort of competition with different rules and goals, but it is still a competition between different teams of people, no? I think the point is smack on. An opportunity is just handing a guy a job. No amazing management skills are needed to do that. Creating an environment of success is a vastly different thing. It's simple to say, "I hired you to build this interstate highway!" But it is profoundly unrealistic to expect success if you banish the guy on a desert island with nothing but a coconut tree, a nachwurst, and an empty beer bottle. "I'll send a hula girl next year, dude." Building our highway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Turk did wonders devoping QB's such as Aaron Brooks, Rob Johnson, JP Losman, & Chris Weinke. He also coached Vinnie Testerverdy & Kerri Collins among their worst seasons in the NFL. Turk is fortunate to have a job in the NFL. We can only hope that he will be a better OC than he was a QB coach Not to mention working as a QB coach with multiple franchises over 10+ seasons, yet never serving as an OC. DJ was convinced though and despite all the encouraging things being touted by Schonert, I think the DJ effect will take place and the offense will be relegated to the plodding style so prevalent on DJ coached teams of the past. Just a hunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted July 15, 2008 Share Posted July 15, 2008 Why is it extreme? It's a different sort of competition with different rules and goals, but it is still a competition between different teams of people, no? I think the point is smack on. An opportunity is just handing a guy a job. No amazing management skills are needed to do that. Creating an environment of success is a vastly different thing. It's simple to say, "I hired you to build this interstate highway!" But it is profoundly unrealistic to expect success if you banish the guy on a desert island with nothing but a coconut tree, a nachwurst, and an empty beer bottle. "I'll send a hula girl next year, dude." I agree Sisyphean Bills, it is spot on. whether it is sports, running a fortune 500 company or anything else, the guys on top have to identify strength, fit those strengths together and cover weaknesses. They give the company direction. And going from what we had in Mularkey's final season through last season, there has been improvement each year. There have been mistakes and setbacks every year, but the team is much better than it was. And there still is a long way to go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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