JP -Bills Biggest Bust the last 5 years

[KRC]

No you didn't. You didn't do that

 

You want me to pay for a magazine to read an article that you briefed us on??

 

Don't worry. You can usually go to the bookstore or magazine stand and read it for free if you are too cheap to buy it.

[Bill from NYC]

People will click on this post and expect it to be "JP Bashing," but it is not.

 

Use any type of semantics you want, but the Bills used a 1st, 2nd and a 5th on JP. If one is going to label him a "bust," this has to be taken into account. For instance, if he was a 3rd, or even a 2nd round pick, would people be throwing the "bust" word around? I for one don't think so.

 

In my old age , I am starting to understand the excuses for JP. Even if one thinks he is a terrible qb, it is almost indisputeable that he was handled poorly. I don't know how good he would be under the best conditions and neither does anyone else, but getting handed the job for no reason was the start of bad things, and the neglect of the OL certainly hurt the kid.

 

One more thing....the word "project" is misused wrt JP, or so I see it. I reserve this term for a player who has phenominal ability, but limited experience. Christian Okoye was by definition, a project. He was a good runner, yet he was 6'1"/260. The thing is, he lived in Nigeria until he was in college, and unlike JP, wasn't exposed to football.

 

I don't know if JP will ever be a good quarterback. He has the physical gifts, but so did many others who didn't pan out. But believe it or not, I don't think it is fair to label him a bust along the lines of Ryan Leif, Mike Williams, etc. I would simply consider him a bad pick (because of what was given up) by TD, a guy who was a great judge of talent before he came to Buffalo.

 

Yeah....Bills Fans need a break!

[1billsfan]

People will click on this post and expect it to be "JP Bashing," but it is not.

 

Use any type of semantics you want, but the Bills used a 1st, 2nd and a 5th on JP. If one is going to label him a "bust," this has to be taken into account. For instance, if he was a 3rd, or even a 2nd round pick, would people be throwing the "bust" word around? I for one don't think so.

 

In my old age , I am starting to understand the excuses for JP. Even if one thinks he is a terrible qb, it is almost indisputeable that he was handled poorly. I don't know how good he would be under the best conditions and neither does anyone else, but getting handed the job for no reason was the start of bad things, and the neglect of the OL certainly hurt the kid.

 

One more thing....the word "project" is misused wrt JP, or so I see it. I reserve this term for a player who has phenominal ability, but limited experience. Christian Okoye was by definition, a project. He was a good runner, yet he was 6'1"/260. The thing is, he lived in Nigeria until he was in college, and unlike JP, wasn't exposed to football.

 

I don't know if JP will ever be a good quarterback. He has the physical gifts, but so did many others who didn't pan out. But believe it or not, I don't think it is fair to label him a bust along the lines of Ryan Leif, Mike Williams, etc. I would simply consider him a bad pick (because of what was given up) by TD, a guy who was a great judge of talent before he came to Buffalo.

 

Yeah....Bills Fans need a break!

 

Believe it or not, I agree with a lot of what you said here Bill. It's very refreshing to see a post that's respectful of the player while being critical. Even though I'm still a supporter of Losman's, I have no problem with anyone labeling him a bust. The guy was a first round QB who hadn't taken his team to the playoffs since he's been here. That's the mark for a first round QB. The only thing I can counter with is that I still think the guy has it in him to become a top five QB in this league and that, unfortunately for him (and maybe us Bills fans), he's a very late bloomer. I just never understood the mean-spirited blasts of Losman, who was a "gamble" and a "project" pick that always tried to do his best.

[Bill from NYC]

Believe it or not, I agree with a lot of what you said here Bill. It's very refreshing to see a post that's respectful of the player while being critical. Even though I'm still a supporter of Losman's, I have no problem with anyone labeling him a bust. The guy was a first round QB who hadn't taken his team to the playoffs since he's been here. That's the mark for a first round QB. The only thing I can counter with is that I still think the guy has it in him to become a top five QB in this league and that, unfortunately for him (and maybe us Bills fans), he's a very late bloomer. I just never understood the mean-spirited blasts of Losman, who was a "gamble" and a "project" pick that always tried to do his best.

 

Again....I don't buy the "project" thing. Not for a 1st, 2nd, and 5th, but we can agree to disagree.

 

As you know, I think that Trent will be a superb quarterback in this league. This by no means indicates that I am correct mind you, it is simply my opinion. He also seems like a good kid. That said, he hasn't been treated much better on the board than JP, perhaps worse. People went as far as to insult his sister. That sucks. The insults about his play (although he was great for a rookie) were far easier to stomach.

 

Either way, what posters here and all Bills Fans need is a trip to the playoffs. I think this would go a very long way toward soothing those on both sides of the issue.

[ieatcrayonz]

In my old age , I am starting to understand the excuses for JP. Even if one thinks he is a terrible qb, it is almost indisputeable that he was handled poorly. I don't know how good he would be under the best conditions and neither does anyone else, but getting handed the job for no reason was the start of bad things, and the neglect of the OL certainly hurt the kid.

I'm no fan of clean up the city boy as you know, but he was not handed the job for no reason. He was handed the job because the other option had the legs of Frankenstein, the brains of a Stegosaurus and the ability to win of the Chicago Cubs. That's a pretty good reason. They could have handed the job to Ralph Wilson and have been justified.

[/dev/null]

I don't know if JP will ever be a good quarterback. He has the physical gifts, but so did many others who didn't pan out. But believe it or not, I don't think it is fair to label him a bust along the lines of Ryan Leif, Mike Williams, etc. I would simply consider him a bad pick (because of what was given up) by TD, a guy who was a great judge of talent before he came to Buffalo (and had Bill Cowher telling him who to draft).

 

I think it is fair to label JP as a bust. He just isn't an Epic Bust like Ryan Leaf or Mike Williams

 

Oh, and corrected the last part of your sentence

[Bill from NYC]

I'm no fan of clean up the city boy as you know, but he was not handed the job for no reason. He was handed the job because the other option had the legs of Frankenstein, the brains of a Stegosaurus and the ability to win of the Chicago Cubs. That's a pretty good reason. They could have handed the job to Ralph Wilson and have been justified.

 

OK, except here is what happened after the switch (2005):

 

Losman:

 

113/228 - 1340 yards - 8TDs - 8 Ints

 

Bledsoe:

 

300/499 - 3639 yards - 23 TDs - 17 ints

 

Bledsoe was on his way out, be he had 1 decent season left, and JP wasn't ready.

[1billsfan]

Again....I don't buy the "project" thing. Not for a 1st, 2nd, and 5th, but we can agree to disagree.

 

As you know, I think that Trent will be a superb quarterback in this league. This by no means indicates that I am correct mind you, it is simply my opinion. He also seems like a good kid. That said, he hasn't been treated much better on the board than JP, perhaps worse. People went as far as to insult his sister. That sucks. The insults about his play (although he was great for a rookie) were far easier to stomach.

 

Either way, what posters here and all Bills Fans need is a trip to the playoffs. I think this would go a very long way toward soothing those on both sides of the issue.

 

Yes there's been some overly critical things said about Edwards, but I think a lot of that was the backlash effect of the visceral "Losman hater" and the "Edwards is god" posts. It certainly wasn't on the scale of the Losman bashing. The rebuttals were more along the lines that Edwards shouldn't be the starter right now, not that he sucks. How could anyone know? He was a third round rookie! I don't remember the "sister" thing, but that is over the line. Once the season starts we will all be rooting for Edwards to be the guy that his biggest backers believe he will be. A guy who is a leader, a guy who is great under pressure and a guy that knows how to get his team into the endzone. NOT the guy that Aaron Schobel is looking for..."someone to just manage the game and not turn the ball over". Schobel is clearly looking for the next freaking Kelly Holcomb. That comment turned my stomach and made me more than nervous about the same old conservative approach by the Bills in '08.

 

Go Trent! Go Bills!

[colin]

by the way most guys rate an nfl qb, there are about 10 catagories that have more or less equal measure.

 

jp has athletic ability, arm power, and deep ball (seperate from the power as he really does have great touch on the bombs).

 

so he smokes 3 of those catagories, but is bad to terrible in all the others. the issue is he hasn't really done much to improve those other areas.

 

the accuracy issue isn't necessarily about the % of passes jp completes, but where he puts the pass when he throws it. he flat out misses open WRs (as in doesn't see them) and ends up getting sacked, fumbling, or throwing picks when there was a play there. he is poor at reading the d, and really has negative body language when we get down early.

 

if he was a kordel stewart type (altho kordel eventually wanted to be the man) who came in as qb or even an other back on some plays, and ran gadgets that were either him running or throwing a missle deep i think he would be a great additional weapon. he just isn't a qb tho.

[THE GASH STATION]

I think it is fair to label JP as a bust. He just isn't an Epic Bust like Ryan Leaf or Mike Williams

 

I have to agree..based on draft order (MW was #4 overall) and $$'s paid out

MIKE WILLIAMS...was the player they should have named.

 

JP could go on as maybe a starter or a great back up somewhere after BUF..

WILLIAMS is out of football...didn't even make the team when he went to Jacksonville.

[keepthefaith]

Again....I don't buy the "project" thing. Not for a 1st, 2nd, and 5th, but we can agree to disagree.

 

As you know, I think that Trent will be a superb quarterback in this league. This by no means indicates that I am correct mind you, it is simply my opinion. He also seems like a good kid. That said, he hasn't been treated much better on the board than JP, perhaps worse. People went as far as to insult his sister. That sucks. The insults about his play (although he was great for a rookie) were far easier to stomach.

 

Either way, what posters here and all Bills Fans need is a trip to the playoffs. I think this would go a very long way toward soothing those on both sides of the issue.

 

"Superb" is a lofty prediction for Trent especially when you consider his coaching. If Jauron and company hang around for a few yesrs, one could argue that JP is actually in the better position of the two. He at least has a chance to go to a team and coaching situation where the QB has a better chance to do well.

[colin]

I have to agree..based on draft order (MW was #4 overall) and $$'s paid out

MIKE WILLIAMS...was the player they should have named.

 

JP could go on as maybe a starter or a great back up somewhere after BUF..

WILLIAMS is out of football...didn't even make the team when he went to Jacksonville.

 

m williams was over 5 years ago.

[bourbonboy]

OK, except here is what happened after the switch (2005):

 

Losman:

 

113/228 - 1340 yards - 8TDs - 8 Ints

 

Bledsoe:

 

300/499 - 3639 yards - 23 TDs - 17 ints

 

Bledsoe was on his way out, be he had 1 decent season left, and JP wasn't ready.

 

Unfair comparison - Bledsoe had a significantly better supporting cast in Dallas that year. JP may not have been ready, but neither was any other QB. Had Bledsoe stayed in Buffalo, we would've seen the Bills set the all-time futility mark for most sacks in a season, most turnovers by a QB, etc.

 

Tom Brady wouldn't have looked good on that Bills team....woulda kinda been like the last Super Bowl for him, running for his life, only doing it 16 weeks in a row...LOL - come to think of it, I'd pay to see that!

[Fan in Chicago]

I don't know if JP will ever be a good quarterback. He has the physical gifts, but so did many others who didn't pan out. But believe it or not, I don't think it is fair to label him a bust along the lines of Ryan Leif, Mike Williams, etc. I would simply consider him a bad pick (because of what was given up) by TD, a guy who was a great judge of talent before he came to Buffalo.

 

Yeah....Bills Fans need a break!

 

Don't agree fully with your points, but I appreciate this post about JP (for a change). To use a cliche, time alone will tell who ends up being the better QB. I just want the Bills to be strong playoff contenders - just sick of this excuse machine which generates new ones every year for failures while our record wallows in Cardinals territory.

[eball]

People will click on this post and expect it to be "JP Bashing," but it is not.

 

Use any type of semantics you want, but the Bills used a 1st, 2nd and a 5th on JP. If one is going to label him a "bust," this has to be taken into account. For instance, if he was a 3rd, or even a 2nd round pick, would people be throwing the "bust" word around? I for one don't think so.

 

In my old age , I am starting to understand the excuses for JP. Even if one thinks he is a terrible qb, it is almost indisputeable that he was handled poorly. I don't know how good he would be under the best conditions and neither does anyone else, but getting handed the job for no reason was the start of bad things, and the neglect of the OL certainly hurt the kid.

 

One more thing....the word "project" is misused wrt JP, or so I see it. I reserve this term for a player who has phenominal ability, but limited experience. Christian Okoye was by definition, a project. He was a good runner, yet he was 6'1"/260. The thing is, he lived in Nigeria until he was in college, and unlike JP, wasn't exposed to football.

 

I don't know if JP will ever be a good quarterback. He has the physical gifts, but so did many others who didn't pan out. But believe it or not, I don't think it is fair to label him a bust along the lines of Ryan Leif, Mike Williams, etc. I would simply consider him a bad pick (because of what was given up) by TD, a guy who was a great judge of talent before he came to Buffalo.

 

Yeah....Bills Fans need a break!

Good post, Bill.

[apuszczalowski]

JP has been here 4 years, he is not being judged off of only last season. In his 2nd year he was handed the job & benched-the JP apologists (including myself at the time) blamed Mularkey. In year 3 he was mediocre most of the season, including the end and because he had a few good games against weak teams that inflated his stats he was hailed by the JP fans as "getting it". In year 4 he was horrible from day 1 of camp through his injury in game 3, had a good game against possibly the worst defense in the league & then reverted to form & got benched & the JP apologists blamed the OC. In 4 years he's "lead" the team to wins in about only 1/3 of his starts and the JP apologists always find a reason other than JP is a bust.

How was improving the receiving corps a "priority" for Edwards? The Bills didn't sign any name veteran free agent WR. The team drafted a WRs in the 2nd & 7th rounds-hardly what I call a priority. Now look at what they did at DT -traded for a high priced DT & signed another early in free agency-that's recognizing and acting on a position as a priority. In JP's 1st 2 years the Bills' top pick was a WR.

Your final apology for JP is that he came out of the draft as a project. Come on now, no team drafts a QB in the 1st round who is as big a project as JP has turned out to be. If the player is truly thought of as a project, he doesn't get picked in the first or even 2nd round. The Bills didn't view him as the project you do, otherwise they wouldn't have traded up to get him.

Well, thats kind of trying to re-write history there

 

He missed year 1 due to being injured in TC

 

Year 2 was his first real season, and the team decided to throw him to the wolves as the starter that year, and yes most blamed Mularky, he was the guy that decided to play him like a yo-yo and pull him in and out of a game for Holcomb all the time.

 

Year 3 he was mediocre at best to start the season, the first year that they had him fight for the job in TC, and he was better then mediocre in the second half, he was actually one of the top rated QB's in the second half of the season. You can blame that on "a couple good games" but the same can be said for Trent who had "a couple of good games" to boost his stats

 

Year 4 he did not stink it up in TC, most reports said he looked pretty good (didn't they also have reports that during a period of time in TC that no passes were hitting the ground and the receivers were catching everything?). As for the Season, the entire team didn't look great starting last season, and part of that may be due to them starting the season against the teams they did. And you can't say he was horrid in the NE game seeing as how he only took what, 3 snaps in the game before getting hurt?

 

Upgrading the Receiving corps was a priority, and they tried to pickup a FA WR, but felt the draft had better quality as the ones that were available weren't that good. The team had even said that one of their priorities was to bring in a better WR. Everyone here kept saying that they need to bring in better WR's and a TE to give Edwards more targets.

 

And read any draft projection of JP, it says that he is coming out of college Raw and will take longer to develop then the other QB's. It took Eli Manning 4 seasons to "get it" (Up until about half way through the year, almost all the Pre-game shows were talking about how this could be Eli's make or break season in NY, and how fans were already giving up on him, and he had started almost twice as many games)

[apuszczalowski]

People will click on this post and expect it to be "JP Bashing," but it is not.

 

Use any type of semantics you want, but the Bills used a 1st, 2nd and a 5th on JP. If one is going to label him a "bust," this has to be taken into account. For instance, if he was a 3rd, or even a 2nd round pick, would people be throwing the "bust" word around? I for one don't think so.

 

In my old age , I am starting to understand the excuses for JP. Even if one thinks he is a terrible qb, it is almost indisputeable that he was handled poorly. I don't know how good he would be under the best conditions and neither does anyone else, but getting handed the job for no reason was the start of bad things, and the neglect of the OL certainly hurt the kid.

 

One more thing....the word "project" is misused wrt JP, or so I see it. I reserve this term for a player who has phenominal ability, but limited experience. Christian Okoye was by definition, a project. He was a good runner, yet he was 6'1"/260. The thing is, he lived in Nigeria until he was in college, and unlike JP, wasn't exposed to football.

 

I don't know if JP will ever be a good quarterback. He has the physical gifts, but so did many others who didn't pan out. But believe it or not, I don't think it is fair to label him a bust along the lines of Ryan Leif, Mike Williams, etc. I would simply consider him a bad pick (because of what was given up) by TD, a guy who was a great judge of talent before he came to Buffalo.

 

Yeah....Bills Fans need a break!

You make some good points. Probably the biggest reason why they figure him to be such a bust is because of where he was drafted and how much they gave up for him, which I can understand. The probelm is that I guess I don't factor in draft positioning as much as they do. If, for example, lets say in 5 years McKelvin has been a good but not great CB in the league and yet to make a Pro Bowl, and Hardy can't pass josh Reed on the depth chart, who would be considered the Bust? Many would probably say McKelvin because he was drafted with such a high pick in the first round, compared to Hardy who was drafted in the second and wasn't the top WR taken.

 

The part about being a project though, maybe project isn't the right word, but he sort of is/was. All of his write ups when he was drafted all said he would take more time then the others to develop because he was coming into the league Raw and did not come from a NFL system in school. Thats also why I feel that for him, Buffalo was probably the worst place for him to end up cause they needed someone more NFL ready, and could step in and develop faster, not someone who still needed work.

[Ramius]

People will click on this post and expect it to be "JP Bashing," but it is not.

 

Use any type of semantics you want, but the Bills used a 1st, 2nd and a 5th on JP. If one is going to label him a "bust," this has to be taken into account. For instance, if he was a 3rd, or even a 2nd round pick, would people be throwing the "bust" word around? I for one don't think so.

 

In my old age , I am starting to understand the excuses for JP. Even if one thinks he is a terrible qb, it is almost indisputeable that he was handled poorly. I don't know how good he would be under the best conditions and neither does anyone else, but getting handed the job for no reason was the start of bad things, and the neglect of the OL certainly hurt the kid.

 

One more thing....the word "project" is misused wrt JP, or so I see it. I reserve this term for a player who has phenominal ability, but limited experience. Christian Okoye was by definition, a project. He was a good runner, yet he was 6'1"/260. The thing is, he lived in Nigeria until he was in college, and unlike JP, wasn't exposed to football.

 

I don't know if JP will ever be a good quarterback. He has the physical gifts, but so did many others who didn't pan out. But believe it or not, I don't think it is fair to label him a bust along the lines of Ryan Leif, Mike Williams, etc. I would simply consider him a bad pick (because of what was given up) by TD, a guy who was a great judge of talent before he came to Buffalo.

 

Yeah....Bills Fans need a break!

 

Good post. For a variety of reason (some JP's fault, some out of his control), he just didnt pan out for Buffalo. I still think he can go somewhere else and do well, and i wish him the best when he does go.

 

I do disagree with you on the project label. It was well known around draft time 2004 that Losman was more of a raw prospect that was going to need some time to adjust to the pro game. And the Bills, through their own doing, didnt afford him the time early on in his career. (it certainly didnt help that he was injured a lot of his rookie season.)

 

I think a lot fo the frustration comes from the fact that he's labeled with the dreaded "1st round QB" stigma, so he's expected to produce at a high level fairly on. There would have been much less strife had he simply been taken 7 picks later, at the beginning of round 2.

[San-O]

This is just more motivation for JP. I'd expect that he'll work very hard to improve his game and there's no reason to think that past shortcomings can't be corrected to the point where he's a solid player particularly if he goes to a team that knows how to develop a QB.

 

 

Are you talking about Rob Johnson or Losman?

 

RJ = JP

[Stussy109]

This is just more motivation for JP. I'd expect that he'll work very hard to improve his game and there's no reason to think that past shortcomings can't be corrected to the point where he's a solid player particularly if he goes to a team that knows how to develop a QB.

 

 

Kind of like saying the D STudent in Mrs. Brown's class can be an A student in Mrs Lito's class because she is a better teacher. yOu can only get so much out of people. Its either there or its not. Usually coaches can see or feel that its there, and will do all they can to coach it out of the player, in this case the coaches realized it just wasnt going to materialize.