Wacka Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I'll believe it when I see it. In a couple more years, the market will be flooded with used hybrids, when people realize the massive $ they will have to shell out for new batteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lv-Bills Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I think I'll buy a much bigger SUV now and sock it away for two years.That way, when all of you buy up these hybrids, I'll be still using outdated "gas" cars. By that time, with the demand for gas so low, I'll be back to paying around $1.79 a gallon. Here's hoping all of you drop gasoline powered cars so I can suck up cheap gas again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 What's the point if you can get a deep discount on a gas automobile vs. the premium you pay on a hybrid? I think they say it takes 5 years with a Prius to start saving money... The Lexus hybrid is over 100 years! The what about maint? Can you get the thing running when something horribly breaks down? Or are you at the mercy of the dealer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nanker Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 Traditionally, MB has been ahead of the curve on technology (airbags, abs, etc). It's a signpost, if you will. Does their signpost come with four doors and will it seat five? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 What's the point if you can get a deep discount on a gas automobile vs. the premium you pay on a hybrid? I think they say it takes 5 years with a Prius to start saving money... The Lexus hybrid is over 100 years! The what about maint? Can you get the thing running when something horribly breaks down? Or are you at the mercy of the dealer? Good points about the hybrid premium. We had people coming into the Toyota dealership wanting to get on the list for a Highlander Hybrid (this was about 4 years ago) and we tried to explain to them that they would have to drive something like an extra 12-15,000 miles per year to offset the premium. (EDIT: Gas in the Orlando area at that time was in the upper 1.75 - low 2.00 range.) Most customers just couldn't follow the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I'll believe it when I see it. In a couple more years, the market will be flooded with used hybrids, when people realize the massive $ they will have to shell out for new batteries. I saw an article quoting $5000 for new batteries at 70-80k miles. That will kill the re-sale. There's a vehicle you want to lease for sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 2, 2008 Share Posted July 2, 2008 I saw an article quoting $5000 for new batteries at 70-80k miles. That will kill the re-sale. There's a vehicle you want to lease for sure Depending on the manufacturer it's actually come down quite a bit - I think initially they were upwards of $7500. I did see this Newsweek article saying that Honda and Toyota are working on lowering the replacement battery costs: For those unlucky few who have to replace their own batteries, the cost is coming down. On June 1 Honda is slashing the cost of its batteries from $3,400 (excluding installation) to as low as $1,968 on an Insight or as high as $2,440 on an Accord hybrid. Toyota also plans to substantially cut battery prices, which now stand at $3,000 (excluding installation), down from $5,500 on the original Prius. Both automakers attribute the price cuts to improved technology and lower production costs. But some analysts think Toyota and Honda are really trying to get ahead of consumer concerns about battery replacement. "PR is a very important factor in the hybrid market," says J.D. Power's Omotoso. "Honda and Toyota have the oldest hybrids on the road. And when a hybrid gets to be that old, you have to factor battery replacement costs into your purchase decision." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Depending on the manufacturer it's actually come down quite a bit - I think initially they were upwards of $7500. I did see this Newsweek article saying that Honda and Toyota are working on lowering the replacement battery costs: For those unlucky few who have to replace their own batteries, the cost is coming down. On June 1 Honda is slashing the cost of its batteries from $3,400 (excluding installation) to as low as $1,968 on an Insight or as high as $2,440 on an Accord hybrid. Toyota also plans to substantially cut battery prices, which now stand at $3,000 (excluding installation), down from $5,500 on the original Prius. Both automakers attribute the price cuts to improved technology and lower production costs. But some analysts think Toyota and Honda are really trying to get ahead of consumer concerns about battery replacement. "PR is a very important factor in the hybrid market," says J.D. Power's Omotoso. "Honda and Toyota have the oldest hybrids on the road. And when a hybrid gets to be that old, you have to factor battery replacement costs into your purchase decision." I am glad to hear that... But, they better lower that price to what it costs for a set of brakes or tires! Anything over a grand... OUCH! I think somebody said it is cheaper to run a H3 over a Prius... Long haul that is...?? Another question is... Where are these batteries going to be ending up? I hope they recycle? Also, what about making the batteries? Something tells me this is like the compact bulbs... What is going to happen when you get the millions of hoi poloy onboard?... Phuck, one of the reasons I don't use them is because I don't want to have to collect a piece of garbage to recycle... Everything goes in the biz with me... I know that doesn't sound cool, but too bad. Semi-sarcastic-rant: I said before, that the village I live in is staunch independent and takes no money grantwise... In, doing so we don't have recycling... Everything goes in the garbage! Gov't is fine... But, I draw the line at digging in my garbage and telling me I need to "recycle." I am a consumer dammit, I gonna consume! Plop me on the couch and watch me get fat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted July 3, 2008 Author Share Posted July 3, 2008 I saw an article quoting $5000 for new batteries at 70-80k miles. That will kill the re-sale. There's a vehicle you want to lease for sure I'm sure even if that quote is correct it will more than be offset by the maintenance required on internal combustion engines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I'm sure even if that quote is correct it will more than be offset by the maintenance required on internal combustion engines Hybrids by definition have internal combustion engines also. Moreover, the ones that are in most implementations start and stop with large frequency. That cycling is a stress on the internal moving parts, as well as the starting motor, the associated ignition parts, and the flywheel it meshes with. And hybrids have to have very sophisticated control systems, and the more the complexity, the more possibility of component failure. Very pricey components. Honda discontinued its Accord Hybrid. The remaining hybrid vehicles are the Prius, the Civic, the Insight, the 100K Lexus 460h, the Saturn small SUV, the Chevy Malibu, the Ford Escape, and the GM Yukon full-size SUV. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hybrids by definition have internal combustion engines also. Moreover, the ones that are in most implementations start and stop with large frequency. That cycling is a stress on the internal moving parts, as well as the starting motor, the associated ignition parts, and the flywheel it meshes with. And hybrids have to have very sophisticated control systems, and the more the complexity, the more possibility of component failure. Very pricey components. Honda discontinued its Accord Hybrid. The remaining hybrid vehicles are the Prius, the Civic, the Insight, the 100K Lexus 460h, the Saturn small SUV, the Chevy Malibu, the Ford Escape, and the GM Yukon full-size SUV. Don't forget the Chevy Tahoe, Toyota Camry and Highlander hybrids, and Lexus lists three hybrid lines on its site - the RX, GS and LS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Don't forget the Chevy Tahoe, Toyota Camry and Highlander hybrids, and Lexus lists three hybrid lines on its site - the RX, GS and LS. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Info Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Hybrids by definition have internal combustion engines also. Moreover, the ones that are in most implementations start and stop with large frequency. That cycling is a stress on the internal moving parts, as well as the starting motor, the associated ignition parts, and the flywheel it meshes with. And hybrids have to have very sophisticated control systems, and the more the complexity, the more possibility of component failure. Very pricey components. Honda discontinued its Accord Hybrid. The remaining hybrid vehicles are the Prius, the Civic, the Insight, the 100K Lexus 460h, the Saturn small SUV, the Chevy Malibu, the Ford Escape, and the GM Yukon full-size SUV. Honda discontinued its Accord hybrid due to its mpg being only slightly better than the non-hybrid model and being low when compared to other hybrids. It did not pertain to its complexity or component failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Honda discontinued its Accord hybrid due to its mpg being only slightly better than the non-hybrid model and being low when compared to other hybrids. It did not pertain to its complexity or component failure. Of course not - a newer model, hardly one to show warts yet. What was the price differential? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I sold my car yesterday and am officially carless and off oil! I have been commuting by bike since 2003, and realize I do not need a car. It is good for my health, the environment, my wallet, and I am putting less money into Saudi regimes pockets. I feel quite liberated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 I sold my car yesterday and am officially carless and off oil! I have been commuting by bike since 2003, and realize I do not need a car. It is good for my health, the environment, my wallet, and I am putting less money into Saudi regimes pockets. I feel quite liberated! Don't forget Canada! http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petrole...ent/import.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Honda discontinued its Accord hybrid due to its mpg being only slightly better than the non-hybrid model and being low when compared to other hybrids. It did not pertain to its complexity or component failure. Of course not - a newer model, hardly one to show warts yet. What was the price differential? Honda, which marketed the Accord hybrid's strong performance and luxury equipment, misjudged how much people would pay for a hybrid car and the importance consumers who are inclined to buy hybrids place on fuel economy, analysts say. The Honda Accord hybrid, which had a V-6 engine, got little better mileage than a conventional four-cylinder Accord -- and cost a lot more, Mr. Nerad said. "The Accord four-cylinder automatic gets 24 mpg in the city and 37 on the highway, while the Accord hybrid got 28/35 miles per gallon," Mr. Nerad said. "Meanwhile, the Accord hybrid cost around $33,000, while even a loaded four-cylinder Accord cost around $27,000. And you could get a four-cylinder Accord for a lot less than that -- $20,000 or so -- in the marketplace." LINK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 3, 2008 Share Posted July 3, 2008 Don't forget Canada! http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petrole...ent/import.html Forget them? Hell I blame them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
/dev/null Posted July 5, 2008 Share Posted July 5, 2008 More German ingenuity from VW: http://blog.wired.com/cars/2008/07/laugh-at-high-g.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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