SportsCenter's quick AFC East preview

[VOR]

But it is a stretch to say that the Bills are clearly without any doubts better than either team this season. The Dolphins have improved more than any of the three teams.

They have? And this is based on...?

 

Throw in the Jets if you want as well.

[marauderswr80]

ahhhh, under the radar once again. I have NO issues with that, neither should anyone else. Besides, games are played on the field, not in the ESPN studios. No biggie.

[krazykat]

They have? And this is based on...?

 

Throw in the Jets if you want as well.

I think I pretty much explained that in post 19 of this thread. But just for you...

 

Yes, the Dolphins will have improved more than either the Jets or Bills. Ever heard of Jake Long? How about Bill Parcells? How about Justin Smiley? Reggie Torbor and Randy Starks are in the same range as Mitchell and Spencer Johnson except that Starks has been a starter here and there whereas Johnson has only been a backup. They have also signed quite a few decent veterans to either start or as depth. For them that will be a massive improvement.

 

But I understand how it works here. Only the players that we sign amount to anything but the players that our rivals sign all end up being bad acquisitions. I get it, don't worry.

 

I think we can both agree that the Jets sucked last year, right?

 

OK, since we barely beat the Jets once last year and beat them very indecisively in the other game for essentially two unimpressive wins, and two games that frankly we could easily have lost, let me ask you, how then are we clearly better?

 

If all you're looking at is the W/L tally, great. But if you're looking at how each team played last season, particularly against each other where at least in one game the Jets outperformed us, I don't think there's any clear indication that we are in fact the better team, especially since the Jets were 10-6 the year prior when we haven't won 10 games since the '90s.

 

Call me shortsighted.

[krazykat]

Besides, games are played on the field, not in the ESPN studios. No biggie.

Correct. And there are also indicators as to how good teams actually are besides reducing it all to a W-L record, fortunate or unfortunate.

 

Many teams have records better than how good they actually are and many teams have worse records than how good they actually are. All of that usually gets sorted out during the playoffs.

[marauderswr80]

Correct. And there are also indicators as to how good teams actually are besides reducing it all to a W-L record, fortunate or unfortunate.

 

Many teams have records better than how good they actually are and many teams have worse records than how good they actually are. All of that usually gets sorted out during the playoffs.

 

Teams change soo much from year to year anyways. For all we know Detroit can come out and be the team to beat, so can the 49ers.....just never know. Look at the Ravens and that defense, that team sucked.

[VOR]

I think I pretty much explained that in post 19 of this thread. But just for you...

 

Yes, the Dolphins will have improved more than either the Jets or Bills. Ever heard of Jake Long? How about Bill Parcells? How about Justin Smiley? Reggie Torbor and Randy Starks are in the same range as Mitchell and Spencer Johnson except that Starks has been a starter here and there whereas Johnson has only been a backup. They have also signed quite a few decent veterans to either start or as depth. For them that will be a massive improvement.

 

But I understand how it works here. Only the players that we sign amount to anything but the players that our rivals sign all end up being bad acquisitions. I get it, don't worry.

Oh, the irony! With you it's everyone the Bills sign sucks and everyone that is signed by other teams is great. Every post I've ever read by you is trashing one Bills player after another and/or includes some snide comment. Yet you want to be taken seriously when you offer it forth?

 

Case in point, you've been doubting the difference Stroud, Mitchell, Johnson, and Hardy will make, yet you whip out Jake Long, who looks like he has a greater chance of being Tony Mandarich than Tony Boselli? Not to mention he'll be playing RT initially, not LT, and might not ever have the skill to play LT, despite being the 1st overall pick?

 

As for the other guys you mentioned, Starks was their only addition to their lousy DT rotation, and he only started 12 games out of his last 30. So at best he's comparable to Johnson, much less Stroud who was the Bills' big DT acquisition, but whose health/contribution you doubt. And Torbor, a guy who had started 18 games out of 61 with the Giants and just 8 of his last 32, is just as good as Mitchell? Okay, it's a theory. Smiley might be a good addition for them...if he can recover from his injury (hmmmm). But what about their QB situation? Do they have a Tony Romo waiting in the wings?

 

And nevermind that the Dols may be going to a 3-4 defense, while having new coaches throughout the team, which means new plays and new terminology. Sure odds are that they win more than the ONE game they won last year, but how many wins would you be willing to lay money on them winning?

 

I think we can both agree that the Jets sucked last year, right?

 

OK, since we barely beat the Jets once last year and beat them very indecisively in the other game for essentially two unimpressive wins, and two games that frankly we could easily have lost, let me ask you, how then are we clearly better?

 

If all you're looking at is the W/L tally, great. But if you're looking at how each team played last season, particularly against each other where at least in one game the Jets outperformed us, I don't think there's any clear indication that we are in fact the better team, especially since the Jets were 10-6 the year prior when we haven't won 10 games since the '90s.

 

Call me shortsighted.

I think you're focusing on the "clearly" better part a little too much. Just as long as the Bills are "barely" better and sweep or win the majority of games against them as they've done for the better part of the decade, I'll be fine with that. Playing any division rival is tough because the teams know each other so well. But to think the Bills, a better team than either of those 2 teams last year despite all the injuries and a rookie QB and RB, didn't at least keep pace with them is shortsighted.

[krazykat]

Teams change soo much from year to year anyways. For all we know Detroit can come out and be the team to beat, so can the 49ers.....just never know. Look at the Ravens and that defense, that team sucked.

That was evident by our schedule last year. At the beginning of the season we had a top-3 most difficult schedule. By the end of the season it was ranked 18th in difficulty and that was primarily because we played the Pats and their 16-0 record twice. Remove them and I'd say it's likely that it would have dropped into the low 20s.

 

This year's is supposed to be easy, and no matter what it will probably be in the top half of the easiest, but you're right, many teams will improve while many will regress. The Bills are not immune to that either. We could go either way. We each see which way it will go differently based on our own individual assessments.

 

Right now we have what, the 26th toughest schedule or somewhere around there. If it ends up at 12th it shouldn't surprise anyone. If the Jets rebound to 10-6 and the Fins hit 7-9, that alone may do it with just one or two other teams moving up.

[krazykat]

With you it's everyone the Bills sign sucks and everyone that is signed by other teams is great.

No, it really isn't.

 

I'm just not ready to annoint a mediocre LB that sucked for four years and a backup DT as anything other than merely adequate starters tops, or depth players otherwise. Just because I don't insist that Mitchell is going to begin playing like he never has should be considered reasonable.

 

Rookies are rookies and just as happens every year, a bunch of 1st-rounders and other day one picks don't do squat. As Bills fans we should be well aware of that by now.

 

Regardless, in actuality your take is the exact opposite, which I was refuting using the same logic.

 

You think that everyone that the Bills sign will step up while what other teams, particularly those in our division, sign won't.

 

You see that favorably but not unfavorably, which is unrealistic. Obviously.

 

i.e., you're the one with the skewed outlook in this way. I'm merely suggesting that our draft picks are not exempt from similar analyses imposed on other teams. I'm just not big on Hardy. I like Johnson, so how come you're not lauding me for suggesting that Johnson may have been one of the steals of the draft? Instead all I hear here is how he sucks and isn't better than Hardy. So once again, I guess it's which of our pre-approved players you support that gets you in favor here.

[krazykat]

But to think the Bills, a better team than either of those 2 teams last year despite all the injuries and a rookie QB and RB, didn't at least keep pace with them is shortsighted.

What's shortsighted is thinking that the only team that showed up on Sunday last season with issues was the Bills. The Jets and Fins had plenty of them and losing Ronnie Brown meant more to the Fins than any three injuries total that we had easily last year.

[obie_wan]

Case in point, you've been doubting the difference Stroud, Mitchell, Johnson, and Hardy will make, yet you whip out Jake Long, who looks like he has a greater chance of being Tony Mandarich than Tony Boselli? Not to mention he'll be playing RT initially, not LT, and might not ever have the skill to play LT, despite being the 1st overall pick?

 

 

not to let facts get in the way of a good rant - but Long has already been installed at LT and Carey has been moved to his more natural RT. Their OL, at a fraction of the cost, will be as good as the Bills.

 

carry on

[VOR]

No, it really isn't.

 

I'm just not ready to annoint a mediocre LB that sucked for four years and a backup DT as anything other than merely adequate starters tops, or depth players otherwise. Just because I don't insist that Mitchell is going to begin playing like he never has should be considered reasonable.

Mitchell didn't "suck" with the Chefs, although he was nothing great; but he played MLB for them. Last year he played WLB for the Gints and played exceptionally well and was instrumental in their march to the SB, not to mention during the SB. They key here is his position switch between playing for the Chefs versus the Gints and his play LAST year at a new position, the one he'll play for the Bills. But at worst he'll be a significant upgrade over Ellison. Torbor has been playing for the same team for 4 years at the same position, and is still nothing. Maybe he'll be something, but that's a far greater stretch than expecting Mitchell to play well. Johnson will be a rotational guy, like Starks has mostly been. Again the key addition was Stroud, who you conveniently choose to ignore.

Rookies are rookies and just as happens every year, a bunch of 1st-rounders and other day one picks don't do squat. As Bills fans we should be well aware of that by now.

So there's a good chance that Jake Long will be a bust, just like Hardy might be? Fine. At least we're getting a little consistency here.

Regardless, in actuality your take is the exact opposite, which I was refuting using the same logic.

 

You think that everyone that the Bills sign will step up while what other teams, particularly those in our division, sign won't.

 

You see that favorably but not unfavorably, which is unrealistic. Obviously.

 

i.e., you're the one with the skewed outlook in this way. I'm merely suggesting that our draft picks are not exempt from similar analyses imposed on other teams. I'm just not big on Hardy. I like Johnson, so how come you're not lauding me for suggesting that Johnson may have been one of the steals of the draft? Instead all I hear here is how he sucks and isn't better than Hardy. So once again, I guess it's which of our pre-approved players you support that gets you in favor here.

I talk about Hardy in the other thread so I won't rehash it here. As for Johnson, I think he's got potential. But as a 7th rounder behind guys like Evans, Hardy, Reed,and Parrish, I don't see him getting much PT. He's fighting a numbers game, where he was drafted, and because he's a rookie. I'm just being realistic here.

[VOR]

What's shortsighted is thinking that the only team that showed up on Sunday last season with issues was the Bills. The Jets and Fins had plenty of them and losing Ronnie Brown meant more to the Fins than any three injuries total that we had easily last year.

Yes the Dols had problems, namely a rookie HC. But they'll have a rookie HC again this year and ALL new coaches versus last year where most of their coaches were the same. And they had Brown for 7 games and lost them all. And what about if Taylor sits out or is traded?

 

What were the problems with the Jets, again? Besides having had to play a real schedule last year versus a creampuff one the year before?

[VOR]

not to let facts get in the way of a good rant - but Long has already been installed at LT and Carey has been moved to his more natural RT. Their OL, at a fraction of the cost, will be as good as the Bills.

 

carry on

They could install Long at QB for all I care. Until he proves he won't get his QB (whoever it may be, as if it matters) killed, it means nothing.

 

And "a fraction of the cost?" Bwahahahaha! Did you happen to SEE the contract Jake Long got (6 years, $57.5M)? All before he ever played a down of football? Carey's making $2.2M a year. Smiley was signed for $5M a year.

 

Carry on, indeed.

[krazykat]

Mitchell didn't "suck" with the Chefs, although he was nothing great; but he played MLB for them. Last year he played WLB for the Gints and played exceptionally well and was instrumental in their march to the SB, not to mention during the SB. They key here is his position switch between playing for the Chefs versus the Gints and his play LAST year at a new position, the one he'll play for the Bills. But at worst he'll be a significant upgrade over Ellison. Torbor has been playing for the same team for 4 years at the same position, and is still nothing. Maybe he'll be something, but that's a far greater stretch than expecting Mitchell to play well. Johnson will be a rotational guy, like Starks has mostly been. Again the key addition was Stroud, who you conveniently choose to ignore.

 

So there's a good chance that Jake Long will be a bust, just like Hardy might be? Fine. At least we're getting a little consistency here.

 

I talk about Hardy in the other thread so I won't rehash it here. As for Johnson, I think he's got potential. But as a 7th rounder behind guys like Evans, Hardy, Reed,and Parrish, I don't see him getting much PT. He's fighting a numbers game, where he was drafted, and because he's a rookie. I'm just being realistic here.

What specifically did Mitchell do last year VOR?

 

I see that he sacked Edwards twice and Cleo Lemon once. Yes, very impressive. LOL Oh yeah, forgot one INT against the Bills (Edwards) which was thrown right to him. Great job. We should all applaud him.

 

So basically he had a heyday v. the Bills and has no verfiable stats other than tackles in any other game. And you think that's "playing exceptionally well?"

 

I'm sure you'll go off about his intangibles now and how the Giant D unit wouldn't have come together without him or something like that. Or that he ranked 4th on the team in tackles when at WLB he should have ranked 2nd behind Peirce, 3rd at worst given his position, yet he only managed to rank 4th. There were few if any games that he was the primary factor on D in as well. You overrate Mitchell.

 

As to Jake Long, again, you missed the point entirely. You challenged me as to the notion that the Fins had not improved. I gave you the list. You then proceed to make my point and try to show how Miami hasn't improved although they've done more than we have. So my case has merely been reinforced.

 

As to Johnson, he was more impressive last year in college than Hardy was and that's all but fact. The only reason why he wasn't ranked much higher in the draft is because he posted only one solid season rather than the two good ones and one outstanding one numbers wise for Hardy. Could he be a flash in the pan? Absolutely. But the fact remains, he beat better DBs and Ds far more frequently as a Sr. in school than Hardy did. What that ends up being worth remains to be seen.

[krazykat]

Yes the Dols had problems, namely a rookie HC. But they'll have a rookie HC again this year and ALL new coaches versus last year where most of their coaches were the same. And they had Brown for 7 games and lost them all. And what about if Taylor sits out or is traded?

 

What were the problems with the Jets, again? Besides having had to play a real schedule last year versus a creampuff one the year before?

And if the Bills were in this shape, you would be talking about how the team won't make the playoffs but how 6 or 7 wins can be expected simply due to the improvements made there.

 

Jets: Thomas Jones predictably proved to be washed up and they had no depth or running game otherwise. I'd say that's relevant, wouldn't you? After all, if Lynch is the 5th highest rated RB, what's Jones? Where would that rank their running game next to ours in that way only?

 

Kellen Clemens started half their games, and in spite of playing just like Edwards statistically, I'm sure that according to you he will have sucked.

 

And you really think that either Coles or Cotchery is better than Evans? Otherwise Coles missed most of the second half of the season or was hampered in the few games he played.

 

Ever heard of Jonathon Vilma? IR

 

Justin Miller? Nah, he sucks right? IR

 

So you're right, nothing to see here.

 

Their OL wasn't good. They did sign cruddy linemen like Damian Woody and Alan Faneca, so there's no reason to think that they may improve. Now if their uniforms had a Buffalo on them, then they would assuredly be positioned to do better than their 10-6 mark of two years ago. Otherwise they suck too no doubt in your book.

 

And of course Bubba Franks, Tony Richardson, Jesse Chatman, or Calvin Pace won't make any difference for them. Now if we had signed those guys you'd be talking Super Bowl no doubt. LOL

 

Good demonstration of knowledge and research however. Yeah.

[Wagon Circler]

What specifically did Mitchell do last year VOR?

 

I see that he sacked Edwards twice and Cleo Lemon once. Yes, very impressive. LOL Oh yeah, forgot one INT against the Bills (Edwards) which was thrown right to him. Great job. We should all applaud him.

 

So basically he had a heyday v. the Bills and has no verfiable stats other than tackles in any other game. And you think that's "playing exceptionally well?"

 

I'm sure you'll go off about his intangibles now and how the Giant D unit wouldn't have come together without him or something like that. Or that he ranked 4th on the team in tackles when at WLB he should have ranked 2nd behind Peirce, 3rd at worst given his position, yet he only managed to rank 4th. There were few if any games that he was the primary factor on D in as well. You overrate Mitchell.

 

As to Jake Long, again, you missed the point entirely. You challenged me as to the notion that the Fins had not improved. I gave you the list. You then proceed to make my point and try to show how Miami hasn't improved although they've done more than we have. So my case has merely been reinforced.

 

As to Johnson, he was more impressive last year in college than Hardy was and that's all but fact. The only reason why he wasn't ranked much higher in the draft is because he posted only one solid season rather than the two good ones and one outstanding one numbers wise for Hardy. Could he be a flash in the pan? Absolutely. But the fact remains, he beat better DBs and Ds far more frequently as a Sr. in school than Hardy did. What that ends up being worth remains to be seen.

AS someone who lives in Joisy and saw a lot of Giant games last year, I can tell you that Mitchell had an outstanding season, making plays and stopping the run. I was thrilled with his signing. He adds size and savvy.

[KOKBILLS]

I hate to provide a reality check, but when you have a franchise that has not made the playoffs since 1999, and were hyped in 2003 and 2004 and fell flat on their face, and couple that Buffalo is not the 'sexy' market idiots at ESPN crave, it makes sense that the Bills are snubbed.

 

Go 10-6, 11-5 and make the playoffs, and this snubbing talk will go away.

 

 

Agreed...I hate it sometimes when it seems obvious The Bills have something worth hyping...But the truth is the Won/Loss Record is about all that really matters...Almost every NFL Team has significant injuries every Year...So even though The Bills had WAY more than their fair share in 2007, nobody really cares cause it was yet another Year without Playoff Football in Buffalo...

 

And National Media types tend to believe that no Playoffs since 99 = Losing trend that will continue in Buffalo some how, some way...

[scribo]

http://i.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_galle...antsd.brady.jpg

 

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0f2R4FL9pf0RW

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/02/04/...estallworth.jpg

 

http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/n...,1186680.column

 

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/09/...nts2.ready.html

 

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/56486294.jp...40A659CEC4C8CB6

 

Good enough for me.

[keepthefaith]

http://i.cnn.net/si/multimedia/photo_galle...antsd.brady.jpg

 

http://www.daylife.com/photo/0f2R4FL9pf0RW

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/img/2008/02/04/...estallworth.jpg

 

http://www.newsday.com/sports/columnists/n...,1186680.column

 

http://www.nytimes.com/imagepages/2007/09/...nts2.ready.html

 

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/56486294.jp...40A659CEC4C8CB6

 

Good enough for me.

 

Me too.

[Ramius]

I'm just not ready to annoint a mediocre LB that sucked for four years and a backup DT as anything other than merely adequate starters tops, or depth players otherwise.

 

Rookies are rookies and just as happens every year, a bunch of 1st-rounders and other day one picks don't do squat. As Bills fans we should be well aware of that by now.

 

So tell me, why is it that the phins mediocre LB and backup DT and rookies are going to make them a force to be reckoned with, btu these same positions are going to do nothing for the bills? Thats the negative attitude that you tend to bring with 99% of your posts.

 

As for the jets, 10-6 in 2006 was more of a fluke than 4-12 last season. I can go on about them as well. They lost Vilma. Why is calvin pace so great? He has had 1 good season out of 5 in arizona, and used it to cash in. He was widely considered a huge bust until his one good contract year. What makes him so great and Mitchell so bad? Oh thats right, mitchell was signed for the bills and pace was signed for another team. As for Damien Woody, he's bee relatively garbage since he went to detroit. He's started all of 13 games the past 2 seasons. He's a serious injury liability.