Would everyone who would like to see Trent Edwards

[1billsfan]

He's the same guy who constantly rips Jauron for being an average to below average coach yet keeps making excuses for Losman. The definition of irony.

 

 

You mean the kind of irony where fans make excuses for a six of seven season loser NFL head coach yet show no patience for a still growing project QB? You mean that kind of irony C.Biscuit97?

[Gordio]

You mean the kind of irony where fans make excuses for a six of seven season loser NFL head coach yet show no patience for a still growing project QB? You mean that kind of irony C.Biscuit97?

 

 

That 6 or seven season loser NFL Head Coach did win the coach of the year one year & was runner up another year. He took a young team last year, decimated by as many injuries as I have ever seen & guided the ship to a respectable 7 win season given the circumstances. He must of been doing something right.

[Bill from NYC]

You mean the kind of irony where fans make excuses for a six of seven season loser NFL head coach yet show no patience for a still growing project QB?

 

Still growing? He went backwards in 07. Also, there is no such thing a a project who costs a football team a 1st, 2nd, and a 5th. You don't use resources like that on a project.

[eball]

Still growing? He went backwards in 07. Also, there is no such thing a a project who costs a football team a 1st, 2nd, and a 5th. You don't use resources like that on a project.

I hate to continually argue semantics with you, but Losman didn't "cost" the Bills three picks, unless you are of the opinion that each player drafted "costs" the team one pick. The Bills used their first round pick in the subsequent year's draft to select Losman -- and "paid" for the right to do that with two picks (2nd and 5th).

 

Again, it's just semantics, but it implies the Bills spent more than they did for this particular player.

[Adam]

Still growing? He went backwards in 07. Also, there is no such thing a a project who costs a football team a 1st, 2nd, and a 5th. You don't use resources like that on a project.

It is not a player's fault that we gave that much up. We knew he was going to take about five years when we took him. If we stick with Trent, thats great by me- but I don't want to change QB's again, even if he throws 30 INT's in the first three games against no touchdowns. Players develop at their own rate, not at the rate we want them to.

 

I have no problem with people who want Trent in there instead of JP- heck, it may turn out that they are right. The people who blame him for losing seasons the past three years are the ones that lack credibility, as he never should have started the year we let Bledsoe go.

[Bill from NYC]

>>>>> We knew he was going to take about five years when we took him.<<<<<

 

This is flat out wrong Adam. Sorry, it is just not possible. No GM would give up that much to wait 5 years. It NEVER happens. Not ever. Look around the league. First round qbs (including Losman) are put in sooner rather than later because of the cap.

 

>>>>>The people who blame him for losing seasons the past three years are the ones that lack credibility, as he never should have started the year we let Bledsoe go.<<<<<

 

Thank you for this. It was not all JP's fault, AND he was thrown in there too soon. Probably because MM and TD were in a tizzy about losing to Pitt in the last game of that season.

[obie_wan]

I hate to continually argue semantics with you, but Losman didn't "cost" the Bills three picks, unless you are of the opinion that each player drafted "costs" the team one pick. The Bills used their first round pick in the subsequent year's draft to select Losman -- and "paid" for the right to do that with two picks (2nd and 5th).

 

Again, it's just semantics, but it implies the Bills spent more than they did for this particular player.

 

Not sure how any other conclsuion if possbile.

 

Instead of 3 players, they got JP.

 

Looks like he cost them 3 picks to me.

[Flbillsfan#1]

It is not a player's fault that we gave that much up. We knew he was going to take about five years when we took him. If we stick with Trent, thats great by me- but I don't want to change QB's again, even if he throws 30 INT's in the first three games against no touchdowns. Players develop at their own rate, not at the rate we want them to.

 

I have no problem with people who want Trent in there instead of JP- heck, it may turn out that they are right. The people who blame him for losing seasons the past three years are the ones that lack credibility, as he never should have started the year we let Bledsoe go.

If he throws 30 ints & 0 TD's his first three games, I will not be happy. All the Trent lovers say how accurate he is. I have just watched the Redskins game & Browns game again on NFL Network. In the Redskins game Trent looked the way JP has been described, UNDERTHROWING & OVERTHROWING his receivers all game long. The only drive he looked good on was the last drive of the game. The weather was BAD in Cleveland. Anderson managed to make some NICE throws in the same conditions Trent played in, including a VERY NICE throw for a TD. I don't remember seeing ONE good pass from Trent the entire game.The coach of the Browns said although it was windy & snowing it wasn't that cold. If Trent is to be the Bills QB, he better MAN UP & lose the gloves.

[Bill from NYC]

I hate to continually argue semantics with you, but Losman didn't "cost" the Bills three picks, unless you are of the opinion that each player drafted "costs" the team one pick. The Bills used their first round pick in the subsequent year's draft to select Losman -- and "paid" for the right to do that with two picks (2nd and 5th).

 

Again, it's just semantics, but it implies the Bills spent more than they did for this particular player.

 

They gave up their 1st in the following season to draft Losman, and it cost them a 2nd and a 5th to do so. Yes, that equals 3 picks. They were fleeced.

[Bill from NYC]

Not sure how any other conclsuion if possbile.

 

Instead of 3 players, they got JP.

 

Looks like he cost them 3 picks to me.

 

Just another, perhaps more sophisticated form of excuse making.

In 2004, we gave up a 2nd, a 5th, AND a 1st in 2005 (we even lost a few spots there). For this we got JP Losman in round 1 of 04. That is what happened.

[Flbillsfan#1]

They gave up their 1st in the following season to draft Losman, and it cost them a 2nd and a 5th to do so. Yes, that equals 3 picks. They were fleeced.

They were also given a #1 pick in that trade. 1-1=0 therefore it cost them a 2 & 5 over & above their pick.

[Bill from NYC]

They were also given a #1 pick in that trade.

 

Yes, and they used it to select Losman. They had one for 05 and gave it up.

[Kelly the Dog]

Having met you and conversed with you for years, I think that you are telling the truth in terms of what you believe to be true wrt the above. I believe that it is true in principle. That said, it seems to place all of the decision upon the shoulders of Ralph, and I do have a hard time with this KTD.

 

Your post was also very honest in that you admitted that JP, despite high expectations, didn't play well. I find it hard to believe that the coaches, especially after being publicly called out, were enamored by JP or his play. Many disagree, but I think that when he mouthed off, right or wrong, he hurt himself with the brass. That of course is strictly my opinion, but I digress.

 

I think that aside from a few rabid supporters, JP is not held in such high esteem around the league. Parcells was openly critical of him if you recall. In other words....I have a hard time thinking that the coaches were hell bent on keeping him in there. I know that he only has a year left, but a top qb, even under those conditions, would command a ton in a trade. Why no offers from teams such as KC, Minn., Atlanta, the jests, etc.? They would be getting a player in his prime years, and could probably sign him long term to a very reasonable deal.

 

Now, frequent criticism notwithstanding, I don't think that JP was brought along properly. Bledsoe had a good year left when JP was handed the job, and he wasn't ready to be in there, unless the team was going to let him make his mistakes. Also, it is well doccumented how I feel about building an NFL team. Jauron and Levy came in and went right to the secondary in terms of the draft. IN 08 Jauron hit the ground running in the same direction yet again, and may never stop until he is fired. In 06, they gave JP a 5th Round Guard, and that was pretty much it. I find it strange that some of his biggest supporters condone this. Wouldn't you think that he needed more to improve?

 

Anyway, thanks for the dialogue.

What I think happened with the coaches is pretty much what is happening here. No one knows, everyone has opinions, neither QB is great and neither sucks, sometimes it looks like Losman is finally putting it all together and then he just doesn't. Edwards looked very good for a rookie right off the bat and did things that are hard to teach but came back down to earth (not that he ever really left the atmosphere, or got much higher than a large slide at a playground) just as quickly when teams knew what he was all about.

 

I think the coaches think both quarterbacks are pretty good and they're glad to have them both because you need at least two.

 

I think they wish they could take the few things Edwards does well and combine them with the few things Losman does well but they know they can't. I think they think of Losman as I do, which is he still could very well put it together but he has disappointed us too much and we only have him for one more year, what can we do?

 

I think Parcells in your example is a lousy one, since he immediately turned to Bledsoe again when most everyone knew that Drew was shot. And even though you continually say that Losman was handed the job for no reason, I think most fans and the Bills coaches don't believe that is true. I know I don't. I believe that Bledsoe lost the job in the Pittsburgh game. The coaches and Satan finally decided that Drew had taken them as far as he could take them and wasn't ever going to be better or be the man so they demoted him. Losman was an unknown but huge potential and had a year to sit. I don't think at all that Losman won it from anyone, or was annointed by anyone, I think Bledsoe just wasn't the guy and they knew he would not stay when demoted. They hoped he would, because he would have been a veteran back-up but they knew it was highly unlikely.

 

I think the rest of the league thinks the same way I think the Bills coaches think of Losman. He's risky. He's got a ton of talent. He's showed he can play at a high level but he hasn't been consistent enough to throw 40 million dollars and the starting job to. So it's hard to make any kind of play for him. I think the guy is going to be good, but I wouldn't do it.

 

I'm a screenwriter. I have a 1-2 very original and potentially great projects that I think, and others think, would make great independent movies. But even I wouldn't put up 40 million dollars to make what I think is a great movie, because it's a bad and risky investment. People do it all the time with quarterbacks and more often than not it doesn't work.

 

Losman has been a tease. I think it is due to at least four major factors:

 

1. He was a long term project from the start. He needed a couple years to develop because of his college experience. Everyone agreed this was true and most people instantly forgot about that.

 

2. He wasn't properly coached, he was jerked around, he was used and became a pawn, he wasn't allowed to develop, he wasn't allowed to play to his strengths, he was in terrible offenses.

 

3. His teammates didn't help him much because, for the most part, they were young, weren't very good, and/or we're just as poorly coached.

 

4. He didn't develop fast enough. He made too many mistakes. He made bad choices at too many times. His weaknesses didn't diminish fast enough. When he needed to rise above the mediocrity around him, he failed more often than he succeeded.

 

#4 was the most important and the biggest determining factor.

[Bill from NYC]

I think Parcells in your example is a lousy one, since he immediately turned to Bledsoe again when most everyone knew that Drew was shot.

 

Yes, and as I recall, he took them to the playoffs, with both the LT and RT injured.

[K-9]

That 6 or seven season loser NFL Head Coach did win the coach of the year one year & was runner up another year. He took a young team last year, decimated by as many injuries as I have ever seen & guided the ship to a respectable 7 win season given the circumstances. He must of been doing something right.

 

My question would for #1 would be: Is Jauron a better NFL coach than JP is an NFL QB?

 

I'd ask him myself but he scares me.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Cornerville]

What I think happened with the coaches is pretty much what is happening here. No one knows, everyone has opinions, neither QB is great and neither sucks, sometimes it looks like Losman is finally putting it all together and then he just doesn't. Edwards looked very good for a rookie right off the bat and did things that are hard to teach but came back down to earth (not that he ever really left the atmosphere, or got much higher than a large slide at a playground) just as quickly when teams knew what he was all about.

 

I think the coaches think both quarterbacks are pretty good and they're glad to have them both because you need at least two.

 

I think they wish they could take the few things Edwards does well and combine them with the few things Losman does well but they know they can't. I think they think of Losman as I do, which is he still could very well put it together but he has disappointed us too much and we only have him for one more year, what can we do?

 

I think Parcells in your example is a lousy one, since he immediately turned to Bledsoe again when most everyone knew that Drew was shot. And even though you continually say that Losman was handed the job for no reason, I think most fans and the Bills coaches don't believe that is true. I know I don't. I believe that Bledsoe lost the job in the Pittsburgh game. The coaches and Satan finally decided that Drew had taken them as far as he could take them and wasn't ever going to be better or be the man so they demoted him. Losman was an unknown but huge potential and had a year to sit. I don't think at all that Losman won it from anyone, or was annointed by anyone, I think Bledsoe just wasn't the guy and they knew he would not stay when demoted. They hoped he would, because he would have been a veteran back-up but they knew it was highly unlikely.

 

I think the rest of the league thinks the same way I think the Bills coaches think of Losman. He's risky. He's got a ton of talent. He's showed he can play at a high level but he hasn't been consistent enough to throw 40 million dollars and the starting job to. So it's hard to make any kind of play for him. I think the guy is going to be good, but I wouldn't do it.

 

I'm a screenwriter. I have a 1-2 very original and potentially great projects that I think, and others think, would make great independent movies. But even I wouldn't put up 40 million dollars to make what I think is a great movie, because it's a bad and risky investment. People do it all the time with quarterbacks and more often than not it doesn't work.

 

Losman has been a tease. I think it is due to at least four major factors:

 

1. He was a long term project from the start. He needed a couple years to develop because of his college experience. Everyone agreed this was true and most people instantly forgot about that.

 

2. He wasn't properly coached, he was jerked around, he was used and became a pawn, he wasn't allowed to develop, he wasn't allowed to play to his strengths, he was in terrible offenses.

 

3. His teammates didn't help him much because, for the most part, they were young, weren't very good, and/or we're just as poorly coached.

 

4. He didn't develop fast enough. He made too many mistakes. He made bad choices at too many times. His weaknesses didn't diminish fast enough. When he needed to rise above the mediocrity around him, he failed more often than he succeeded.

 

#4 was the most important and the biggest determining factor.

 

 

Good post Kelly.

I think you made great points about JP, but to me the real issue is here: Why are some Bills fans here just yearning to be right about Edwards that they will 'almost be happy' to see Trent fail to be able to come here and flex their internet message board prowess "I was right about Trent!! HAAHAHA!' something like that.

 

Question for Kelly and others: Due to the fact we saw two QB's come through here recently in Drew and RJ, both of whom somewhat fit the JP mode: Big, strong arm QB's who all hold the ball too long at times and make inexplicable decisions, do you think this really led to the mishandling of JP from the get-go? Meaning, if the Bills did not have RJ or DB, would this have happened to JP?

 

And let's remember, JP was handed the job back in 2005 when he should NOT have either. JP was mishandled from the beginning.

[Kelly the Dog]

Yes, and as I recall, he took them to the playoffs, with both the LT and RT injured.

Yes, and as I recall, look what happened to them when a non-washed up QB was put in there.

[Flbillsfan#1]

My question would for #1 would be: Is Jauron a better NFL coach than JP is an NFL QB?

 

I'd ask him myself but he scares me.

 

GO BILLS!!!

That is a good question. I think they could both turn out to be good or they could both suck.

[Bill from NYC]

Losman has been a tease. I think it is due to at least four major factors:

 

1. He was a long term project from the start. He needed a couple years to develop because of his college experience. Everyone agreed this was true and most people instantly forgot about that.

 

2. He wasn't properly coached, he was jerked around, he was used and became a pawn, he wasn't allowed to develop, he wasn't allowed to play to his strengths, he was in terrible offenses.

 

3. His teammates didn't help him much because, for the most part, they were young, weren't very good, and/or we're just as poorly coached.

 

4. He didn't develop fast enough. He made too many mistakes. He made bad choices at too many times. His weaknesses didn't diminish fast enough. When he needed to rise above the mediocrity around him, he failed more often than he succeeded.

 

#4 was the most important and the biggest determining factor.

 

I am even floating a #5 out there for you. Jauron/Levy went right for secondary help in 06. It was as if developing JP was a non-issue in terms of getting him help. Jauron did almost the same thing to Trent this year.

If #4 was the biggest factor, I am placing mine as second.

 

Jmo.

[Bill from NYC]

Yes, and as I recall, look what happened to them when a non-washed up QB was put in there.

 

Bledsoe was never the same after the injury vs. the jests. We both know this. Still, he had enough left to stick around and afford JP time to learn the game, and perhaps even step in at some point mid-season. Instead, he was cut, Dallas made the playoffs, and we had to watch Holcome.

 

It wasn't pretty, and it certainly didn't help Losman.