Would everyone who would like to see Trent Edwards

[Captain Hindsight]

There's a difference between "Want" him to fail... and "Think" he will fail...

 

I don't Want anyone on the team to fail... but I personally think he will...

 

He will more than likely fail to live up to whatever sick and wrong expectations are put on him by some fans.

 

Buffalo Bills fans expect every QB to live up to a very MYTHICAL expectation to be as good/great as the great Jim Kelly...

 

I remember the "Jim Kelly Era"... Jim Kelly didn't live up to the expectations fans placed on him... as time goes on, the legend grows as people who only heard or recall the best times forget all the other things - playing poorly while injured but refusing to leave due to the fear of the growing love for Frank Reich. The fact that despite being a good QB, he was unable to win a Superbowl.

 

If we don't stop holding our QBs up to this mythical standard, we'll continually burn out players and churn through QBs as fast as we do Head Coaches.

 

I've said it many times... JP got a raw deal - and for that some fans feel bad for him. No, he wasn't the second coming of Jack Kemp or Jim Kelly... But, he wasn't Todd Collins or RJ either... He lost his job due to injury - and when he got it back, it was "temporary" because every week the coaches refused to say he was the starter for good.

 

I don't know about most of you, but if you were replaced with a trainee at your job and made to stand around and watch him struggle at times but be told that you probably would lose your job to him, how would you feel? Betrayed? Hurt? A little angry?

 

Trent Edwards is not going to throw for 5,000 yards, 50 TDs and have no Picks... Hell, I bet he won't throw for 3,500 yards, 30 TDs and only 10 picks. So, will that be "success"? The team isn't going to win 19 games next season... The team is probably not going to win 12 games next year, so is that "success"?

 

I don't want the boy to fail... I just know that he will fail to meet the ridiculous expectations fans place on him.

 

Both sides of the debate are going to place high expectations on him, his backers, because they think he can do it and JP cannot... his detractors because they know he can't and therefore it will be easy to denounce him as NOT the solution - which to them would prove JP should have been given the chance.

 

Since I'm powerless to make the decisions at One Bills Drive... I choose to support their decision, and hope that it works out for the team.

Excellent post

 

Agree on all points

[Bill from NYC]

You're making up anecdotal evidence and treating it as fact. One of the biggest myths is that Losman "continually bounces short passes," and i know this is a favorite of the losman bashers. Plain and simple, Losman does not complete 62 and 63% of his passes the past 2 seasons if all he does is bounce short passes.

 

All he does? Not at all. That said, do you think people just dream this stuff up? Losman runs around like a chicken sans head, and throws ground balls to open receivers WAY too often. It ususlly occurs on sideline patterns, and has continued since he got here.

 

Wait....let's either pretend it doesn't happen, or better yet make excuses.

[ax4782]

All he does? Not at all. That said, do you think people just dream this stuff up? Losman runs around like a chicken sans head, and throws ground balls to open receivers WAY too often. It ususlly occurs on sideline patterns, and has continued since he got here.

 

Wait....let's either pretend it doesn't happen, or better yet make excuses.

 

As usual, Bill, you summed it up nicely.

[Kelly the Dog]

All he does? Not at all. That said, do you think people just dream this stuff up? Losman runs around like a chicken sans head, and throws ground balls to open receivers WAY too often. It ususlly occurs on sideline patterns, and has continued since he got here.

 

Wait....let's either pretend it doesn't happen, or better yet make excuses.

Actually, you're both right. There is no question in my mind that there are 2-3 passes a game when Losman drops back and throws a terrible pass, either in the dirt or way over someone's head, or simply nowhere near the WR. Some of these are ground balls although he doesn't do that as much as he used to. Those passes are just terrible and they leave you scratching your head. Sometimes he does it without any rush. A pro QB shouldnt do that you think.

 

What his critics, and yourself, don't consider, is that all QBs throw bad passes several times a game. Losman DOESNT throw more bad passes a game than most QBs and his stats prove it, without question. He DOES throw those unbelievably bad passes a few times a game but it doesn't affect his passing percentage or play or production any more than every other QBs bad passes per game which weren't nearly as bad. You're implying that because he throws these outrageous few he's an inaccurate passer, and he's simply not. He has a good completion percentage overall, despite his penchant for trying harder and longer passes.

 

He's like a pitcher with a 95 mph fastball who throws 2-3 wild pitches a game that are nowhere near the plate, but he doesn't walk many batters and has a good BAA and ERA.

[John from Riverside]

When folks understand that the bad QB play is a bi product of bad O Scheming, lack of talent at the recevier positions, and lack of pass protection.....they wont be so concerned who is behind center.

 

We seem to be on our way to fixing those weaknesses.....watch how the QB play improves.

 

Oh and a defense that doesn't get run on all day would help too with field position.

[K-9]

All I want to know is why, whenever I offer the SAME critiques of Losman's abilities that I have since I first saw his college tapes, his first training camp, rookie year, and all the way through last season, I am automatically lumped in and classified as a Losman 'hater' and Edwards 'apologist.'

 

I've been observing the same strengths and flaws in his game and posting about them the entire time and now a few really defensive board members that disagree with how he lost his job etc. can't read my posts with the same level of objectivity? Doesn't make sense. Especially because I haven't 'annointed' Edwards anything. I've mentioned several times he may end up being worse.

 

I've mentioned it before and to the very members who posted them, but there were SEVERAL posts, since lost in the great data dump of a few months ago, that strongly alluded to how vindicated they'd feel when Edwards f*cked it up. I wasn't the only one who saw them either. Now these people deny they ever made such posts. BULLSH*T. On the flip side, I've NEVER seen ONE post from ANYONE hoping for JP to screw the pooch. Not one. But when these entrenched, bitter, need-to-be-righters read ANYTHING negative about JP they automatically take it the wrong way and assume you hate the man.

 

We ALL wanted JP to succeed. Especially those of us who saw his flaws early on and REALLY hoped he could improve. We all know it takes time. And perhaps he wasn't given enough of it. Regardless, it's time to move on. Time is a thing of the past in the NFL when it comes to developing 1st round QBs. The sooner we all understand that the better.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

PS - Is hoping to see JP come back with another team and 'kick our ass' when he plays us tantamount to hoping Edwards

f*cks up?

[K-9]

Actually, you're both right. There is no question in my mind that there are 2-3 passes a game when Losman drops back and throws a terrible pass, either in the dirt or way over someone's head, or simply nowhere near the WR. Some of these are ground balls although he doesn't do that as much as he used to. Those passes are just terrible and they leave you scratching your head. Sometimes he does it without any rush. A pro QB shouldnt do that you think.

 

What his critics, and yourself, don't consider, is that all QBs throw bad passes several times a game. Losman DOESNT throw more bad passes a game than most QBs and his stats prove it, without question. He DOES throw those unbelievably bad passes a few times a game but it doesn't affect his passing percentage or play or production any more than every other QBs bad passes per game which weren't nearly as bad. You're implying that because he throws these outrageous few he's an inaccurate passer, and he's simply not. He has a good completion percentage overall, despite his penchant for trying harder and longer passes.

 

He's like a pitcher with a 95 mph fastball who throws 2-3 wild pitches a game that are nowhere near the plate, but he doesn't walk many batters and has a good BAA and ERA.

 

It's not the passes JP throws so much as the passes he doesn't. Whether that's by scheme design or lack of recognition on his part, it's the throws he hasn't made that have been his undoing.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Pete]

What kind of Bills fan would want to see Trent fail?

And what kind of Bills fan would like to see JP fail?

 

If you are rooting for any of those scenerios- you are a piss poor Bills fan!

 

Go Trent! Go JP! Go Bills!

[the_franchise]

What kind of Bills fan would want to see Trent fail?

And what kind of Bills fan would like to see JP fail?

 

If you are rooting for any of those scenerios- you are a piss poor Bills fan!

 

Go Trent! Go JP! Go Bills!

 

I'll second that.

[Flbillsfan#1]

All I want to know is why, whenever I offer the SAME critiques of Losman's abilities that I have since I first saw his college tapes, his first training camp, rookie year, and all the way through last season, I am automatically lumped in and classified as a Losman 'hater' and Edwards 'apologist.'

 

I've been observing the same strengths and flaws in his game and posting about them the entire time and now a few really defensive board members that disagree with how he lost his job etc. can't read my posts with the same level of objectivity? Doesn't make sense. Especially because I haven't 'annointed' Edwards anything. I've mentioned several times he may end up being worse.

 

I've mentioned it before and to the very members who posted them, but there were SEVERAL posts, since lost in the great data dump of a few months ago, that strongly alluded to how vindicated they'd feel when Edwards f*cked it up. I wasn't the only one who saw them either. Now these people deny they ever made such posts. BULLSH*T. On the flip side, I've NEVER seen ONE post from ANYONE hoping for JP to screw the pooch. Not one. But when these entrenched, bitter, need-to-be-righters read ANYTHING negative about JP they automatically take it the wrong way and assume you hate the man.

 

We ALL wanted JP to succeed. Especially those of us who saw his flaws early on and REALLY hoped he could improve. We all know it takes time. And perhaps he wasn't given enough of it. Regardless, it's time to move on. Time is a thing of the past in the NFL when it comes to developing 1st round QBs. The sooner we all understand that the better.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

PS - Is hoping to see JP come back with another team and 'kick our ass' when he plays us tantamount to hoping Edwards

f*cks up?

There have been NUMEROUS THREADS & POSTS about JP & Trent since the board crashed. Show me ONE POST that the poster said he HOPED Trent would fail among all of those posts. You should be able to find one if you are correct. ALL QB's have flaws, but the HATERS & YES YOU ARE A HATER, refuse to acknowledge any of the NUMEROUS road blocks that were put in place on JP's road to success. It is IMPOSSIBLE to read ANY of your posts pertaining to Trent & JP objectively, because there is NOTHING objective in them.

[Gordio]

You're making up anecdotal evidence and treating it as fact. One of the biggest myths is that Losman "continually bounces short passes," and i know this is a favorite of the losman bashers. Plain and simple, Losman does not complete 62 and 63% of his passes the past 2 seasons if all he does is bounce short passes.

 

As for the system, look at this: Losman is a gunslinger, plain and simple. Holcomb and 2007 Edwards worked the offense by using short dump off passes. The reason why people say the system was at fault was because aside form the final 9 games of 2006, Losman was never given free reign of a wide open offense. Losman got stuck in a system that benefited a QB style similar to that of noodle arm and Edwards. So thats why the system sucked. Fairtard forced losman into his "system" and didnt play to Losman's strengths. You should fit the system to the players strengths, not vice versa.

 

 

I understand your point. I just really do not think Losman is the gunslinger that everybody thinks he is. Only time will tell. I see too many shortcomings in Losman's game for him ever to be successfull for a long stretch of time. Could I be wrong? Sure. In all likelyhood, Losman will get another chance this year because chances that Edward will stay healthy enough to take every snap is probably less then 30%(not because he is injury proned, but because qbs tend to get hit hard & injured in this league). Hopefully he does prove me wrong. I am sick of watching the playoffs without having the bills in it.

[Gordio]

There have been NUMEROUS THREADS & POSTS about JP & Trent since the board crashed. Show me ONE POST that the poster said he HOPED Trent would fail among all of those posts. You should be able to find one if you are correct. ALL QB's have flaws, but the HATERS & YES YOU ARE A HATER, refuse to acknowledge any of the NUMEROUS road blocks that were put in place on JP's road to success. It is IMPOSSIBLE to read ANY of your posts pertaining to Trent & JP objectively, because there is NOTHING objective in them.

 

 

Your not a hater just because you do not think Losman is a good QB. I do not think he is a good qb, I do not think he will ever be a good qb. It is just my opinion & I could be wrong but I do not think so.

 

Losman's 2nd year here, his 1st as a starter, I ran into Van Miller at the mall. I asked him about JP & he said I have watched him play in practice & obviously in games & I do not think he will ever be accurate enough to become a viable starter in this league. I look back at that statement & IMHO those words have rung true over the years. In the NFL, you can have the best arm in the league, if you are unable to squeeze the ball into tight spaces, your not going to become a good qb. Losman has shown the inability time & time again to be unable to or even unwillingly to fit the ball into tight spaces. Can Edwards do this, I do not know the answer. We will find out this year.

[Bill from NYC]

Actually, you're both right. There is no question in my mind that there are 2-3 passes a game when Losman drops back and throws a terrible pass, either in the dirt or way over someone's head, or simply nowhere near the WR. Some of these are ground balls although he doesn't do that as much as he used to. Those passes are just terrible and they leave you scratching your head. Sometimes he does it without any rush. A pro QB shouldnt do that you think.

 

What his critics, and yourself, don't consider, is that all QBs throw bad passes several times a game. Losman DOESNT throw more bad passes a game than most QBs and his stats prove it, without question. He DOES throw those unbelievably bad passes a few times a game but it doesn't affect his passing percentage or play or production any more than every other QBs bad passes per game which weren't nearly as bad. You're implying that because he throws these outrageous few he's an inaccurate passer, and he's simply not. He has a good completion percentage overall, despite his penchant for trying harder and longer passes.

 

He's like a pitcher with a 95 mph fastball who throws 2-3 wild pitches a game that are nowhere near the plate, but he doesn't walk many batters and has a good BAA and ERA.

 

I agree with most of this post, especially the bolded. I remember a few of those that were so bad that I was actually surprised to see him complete a nice throw several plays later.

Also, I understand the baseball analogy, and it is a pretty good one. The problem is that the next time he tries that play, the receiver might not be open. Remember, I am speaking primarily of short sideline patters, usually to his right. I know you.....you can picture the exact play about which I speak. Most of these are very high percentage passes. They threw a lot of them to Andre Reed when he was going for some record.

 

I am at a complete loss as to why he was unable to correct this.

[Kelly the Dog]

I agree with most of this post, especially the bolded. I remember a few of those that were so bad that I was actually surprised to see him complete a nice throw several plays later. Also, I understand the baseball analogy, and it is a pretty good one. The problem is that the next time he tries that play, the receiver might not be open. Remember, I am speaking primarily of short sideline patters, usually to his right. I know you.....you can picture the exact play about which I speak. Most of these are very high percentage passes. They threw a lot of them to Andre Reed when he was going for some record.

 

I am at a complete loss as to why he was unable to correct this.

And therein lies your problem. You choose not to admit or remember the good. Last year, you remember, when Losman was terrible the entire year? On passes 10 yards or less, you know, those high percentage ones he throws in the dirt? Counting those countless thousands of terrible passes, he completed 72.1% of passes 10 yards or less. Edwards, you remember, the guy with the laser accuracy who rarely throws these terrible passes? He completed 59.7% ten yards or less.

[Risin]

And therein lies your problem. You choose not to admit or remember the good. Last year, you remember, when Losman was terrible the entire year? On passes 10 yards or less, you know, those high percentage ones he throws in the dirt? Counting those countless thousands of terrible passes, he completed 72.1% of passes 10 yards or less. Edwards, you remember, the guy with the laser accuracy who rarely throws these terrible passes? He completed 59.7% ten yards or less.

 

 

Owned.

[Beerball]

It's not the passes JP throws so much as the passes he doesn't. Whether that's by scheme design or lack of recognition on his part, it's the throws he hasn't made that have been his undoing.

 

GO BILLS!!!

I don't disagree with this. It seemed that at critical junctures JP would sometimes hold onto the ball too long and take a devastating sack.

 

Hopefully better O-line play, better QB play, better play calling in 2008 will make us all forget the past.

[Ramius]

I understand your point. I just really do not think Losman is the gunslinger that everybody thinks he is. Only time will tell. I see too many shortcomings in Losman's game for him ever to be successfull for a long stretch of time. Could I be wrong? Sure. In all likelyhood, Losman will get another chance this year because chances that Edward will stay healthy enough to take every snap is probably less then 30%(not because he is injury proned, but because qbs tend to get hit hard & injured in this league). Hopefully he does prove me wrong. I am sick of watching the playoffs without having the bills in it.

 

And i'm not saying that putting him in a gunslinging offense will mean automatic success. my biggest problem was that he was jerked around and treated like crap during his tenure here in buffalo. Sure, he's got flaws in his game, including his short passes. But he's also one of the few QBs who's completion % increases when he throws the intermediate and long range passes. I know you disagree, but i happen to think Losman could do well when put in a better situation on a different team.

 

It all comes down to this. Losman showed some serious stuff in 2006, especially during the 2nd half of the season. We all came into 2007 with high hopes for losman (well, everyone except bill and HA). He fell on his face during the first 2 games last year and got hurt. Lots of QBs, especially young ones, have 2 bad games in a row. But Losman never really got a chance to right the ship in 2007. It was as if the coaching staff forgot all about 2006. After that point, the season was shot. You cannot ask a QB to play for his job on a weekly basis. Also, evaluating any QB play based on the inept offensive game plan implemented last season is a moot point.

 

My biggest concern is that the Bills will either start the flip-flopping QBs again. What happens if Trent shows some potential in 2008, and then after 2 bad games in 2009, the Bills switch again? thats no way to run a football team, but its been the bills modus operandi since kelly retired. Its as if the team refuses to take 1 step back so they can set them selves up to take 3 steps forward.

[Bill from NYC]

And therein lies your problem. You choose not to admit or remember the good. Last year, you remember, when Losman was terrible the entire year? On passes 10 yards or less, you know, those high percentage ones he throws in the dirt? Counting those countless thousands of terrible passes, he completed 72.1% of passes 10 yards or less. Edwards, you remember, the guy with the laser accuracy who rarely throws these terrible passes? He completed 59.7% ten yards or less.

 

Then why did Edwards beat him out? Was it not due to superior play? The stat that you (and the fanboys) omit is W/L. Losman tends to lose games in which he plays. He lost his job to a rookie and a post surgery journeyman. All the irrelevant stats in the world won't change this.

[Sisyphean Bills]

And therein lies your problem. You choose not to admit or remember the good. Last year, you remember, when Losman was terrible the entire year? On passes 10 yards or less, you know, those high percentage ones he throws in the dirt? Counting those countless thousands of terrible passes, he completed 72.1% of passes 10 yards or less. Edwards, you remember, the guy with the laser accuracy who rarely throws these terrible passes? He completed 59.7% ten yards or less.

I sense "statistics lie" and "JP is an idiot" posts coming.

[K-9]

There have been NUMEROUS THREADS & POSTS about JP & Trent since the board crashed. Show me ONE POST that the poster said he HOPED Trent would fail among all of those posts. You should be able to find one if you are correct. ALL QB's have flaws, but the HATERS & YES YOU ARE A HATER, refuse to acknowledge any of the NUMEROUS road blocks that were put in place on JP's road to success. It is IMPOSSIBLE to read ANY of your posts pertaining to Trent & JP objectively, because there is NOTHING objective in them.

 

More of the same. See what I mean? I'm a JP hater? Thanks for proving the point so convincingly.

 

My critique of JP's play is based on many factors. The LEAST of which is what I watch in REAL time on Sunday afternoons. And it is shared with and helped shaped by those who have forgotten more NFL football than you or I will ever learn (not that it's that complicated to begin with). Where were all your objections to my posts in JP's rookie year? How about in '05 and '06? Was I a hater then as well? Or just someone who had legitimate questions about his abiliity? Do you have the same level of condemnation for the NFL scouts who, like me, were enamored with his physical gifts but questioned other elements of his game? We were all haters back then?

 

Nope. You're just bitter about how he was handled last year and it pisses you off. That's fine. But it has clouded YOUR objectivity. My posts aren't anything new. Your reaction to them is.

 

GO BILLS!!!