Would everyone who would like to see Trent Edwards

[Flbillsfan#1]

Bledsoe was never the same after the injury vs. the jests. We both know this. Still, he had enough left to stick around and afford JP time to learn the game, and perhaps even step in at some point mid-season. Instead, he was cut, Dallas made the playoffs, and we had to watch Holcome.

 

It wasn't pretty, and it certainly didn't help Losman.

Bledsoe was cut because he refused to take a back up role- I can't blame him. That is also the reason he was cut in Dallas.

[Kelly the Dog]

Good post Kelly.

I think you made great points about JP, but to me the real issue is here: Why are some Bills fans here just yearning to be right about Edwards that they will 'almost be happy' to see Trent fail to be able to come here and flex their internet message board prowess "I was right about Trent!! HAAHAHA!' something like that.

 

Question for Kelly and others: Due to the fact we saw two QB's come through here recently in Drew and RJ, both of whom somewhat fit the JP mode: Big, strong arm QB's who all hold the ball too long at times and make inexplicable decisions, do you think this really led to the mishandling of JP from the get-go? Meaning, if the Bills did not have RJ or DB, would this have happened to JP?

 

And let's remember, JP was handed the job back in 2005 when he should NOT have either. JP was mishandled from the beginning.

I don't think how Losman was handled had anything to do with RJ or Drew whatsoever. It just happened because of different circumstances and different factors and personalities. Everyone across the board was at fault in JP's case, and didn't handle it well, including Losman. He wasn't put in a great spot but he could have played better.

[Adam]

Bledsoe was cut because he refused to take a back up role- I can't blame him. That is also the reason he was cut in Dallas.

Bledsoe shouldn't have been a backup- he should have started until JP was ready. Instead, he was put in when the fans were ready....and we already know how much they know about football.

[Kelly the Dog]

Bledsoe was never the same after the injury vs. the jests. We both know this. Still, he had enough left to stick around and afford JP time to learn the game, and perhaps even step in at some point mid-season. Instead, he was cut, Dallas made the playoffs, and we had to watch Holcome.

 

It wasn't pretty, and it certainly didn't help Losman.

This is hysterical coming from you, who feel the exact same way about Losman than the Bills front office and most Bills fans felt about Drew. 1] He's proven to us he is not the guy. 2] We gave him a few years of chances already, and 3] he had a major chance to take this team on his back and ride into the playoffs but he just failed. 4] He's never going to take us to the promised land so 5] why don't we just cut bait now and give it to the talented but unproven second year guy.*

 

*It didn't matter to them at all that Bledsoe had once been a good QB in the league, or even two years previous on the Bills. So don't say he proved it and Losman never did. All that mattered to the Bills at that point was that they were through with Drew and had seen enough.

[Adam]

This is hysterical coming from you, who feel the exact same way about Losman than the Bills front office and most Bills fans felt about Drew. 1] He's proven to us he is not the guy. 2] We gave him a few years of chances already, and 3] he had a major chance to take this team on his back and ride into the playoffs but he just failed. 4] He's never going to take us to the promised land so 5] why don't we just cut bait now and give it to the talented but unproven second year guy.*

 

*It didn't matter to them at all that Bledsoe had once been a good QB in the league, or even two years previous on the Bills. So don't say he proved it and Losman never did. All that mattered to the Bills at that point was that they were through with Drew and had seen enough.

No matter what way you word it, it was the wrong move. Don't start the young QB until he is ready. Who cares if Bledsoe can't take you to the superbowl- no QB in the history of the game could take any of our teams full of castoffs to the playoffs, much less the superbowl.

 

We should have either kept Bledsoe as a starter, or picked up a journeyman QB to start until JP was ready....I know in that case, Drew Bledsoe would have been available.

 

Oh, and another thing......the thing about he got enough chances is a bunch of mindless drivel, and I've seen it since midway through his last season. You keep him until their is a better option, not until the fans get bored and want to move onto something else.

 

Bledsoe was never the same after the injury vs. the jests. We both know this. Still, he had enough left to stick around and afford JP time to learn the game, and perhaps even step in at some point mid-season. Instead, he was cut, Dallas made the playoffs, and we had to watch Holcome.

 

It wasn't pretty, and it certainly didn't help Losman.

Actually, he was the same overrated QB that could put up big meaningless stats if you gave him the tools.

[Bill from NYC]

*It didn't matter to them at all that Bledsoe had once been a good QB in the league, or even two years previous on the Bills. So don't say he proved it and Losman never did. All that mattered to the Bills at that point was that they were through with Drew and had seen enough.

 

It isn't the same. Trent looked as good as Losman in his first few starts. And as far as being a proven qb in this league, Bledsoe had Hall of Fame stats, and a superbowl appearance. JP? Please.

[Adam]

It isn't the same. Trent looked as good as Losman in his first few starts. And as far as being a proven qb in this league, Bledsoe had Hall of Fame stats, and a superbowl appearance. JP? Please.

There is a flaw in this - it's the same as saying that Losman will be an all-pro because of how he finished the 2006 season. Sure, Edwards looked good for a few games and then struggled. Nobody knows what to expect this year.

[Kelly the Dog]

It isn't the same. Trent looked as good as Losman in his first few starts. And as far as being a proven qb in this league, Bledsoe had Hall of Fame stats, and a superbowl appearance. JP? Please.

:wallbash:

[Bill from NYC]

There is a flaw in this - it's the same as saying that Losman will be an all-pro because of how he finished the 2006 season. Sure, Edwards looked good for a few games and then struggled. Nobody knows what to expect this year.

 

No. JP finished the 2006 poorly. A case could be made that this was when his decline started.

 

Trent ended 07 playing in monsoons, and one of the games was against the eventual superbowl winner.

[Adam]

No. JP finished the 2006 poorly. A case could be made that this was when his decline started.

 

Trent ended 07 playing in monsoons, and one of the games was against the eventual superbowl winner.

I don't care about the Cleveland or NY Giants games- those are meaningless. I like a lot of what I sawa in Trent, but he has to continue to improve and fight through the next 2-3 seasons. He will struggle, thats a given.

 

The Bills have to add better WR's as well. Reed should play exclusively in the slot, and Parrish should only play if he learns to run routes. We also need a TE and a center who can block. Those are all given, regardless of who plays QB.

[grog]

The muck 'n mire is starting to smell really crappy, and I'm tired of some folks' inability to understand that constructive (and sometimes unconstructive) criticism of Edwards is not equal to hoping he fails.

 

Some feel he is going to be a great QB. Some feel that it is much too early to tell.

 

This post is about 6 months early, give him full year at the helm first.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[K-9]

That is a good question. I think they could both turn out to be good or they could both suck.

 

While my question was intended for the other #1 (billsfan1), I'm glad you answered it. You're right; the jury is still out on both of their careers until they are over.

 

So let me rephrase the question: up to this point, who has had the better NFL career, Jauron as an NFL coach or JP as an NFL player?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Flbillsfan#1]

While my question was intended for the other #1 (billsfan1), I'm glad you answered it. You're right; the jury is still out on both of their careers until they are over.

 

So let me rephrase the question: up to this point, who has had the better NFL career, Jauron as an NFL coach or JP as an NFL player?

 

GO BILLS!!!

Up to this point I would say Jauron, but I was not happy with his work last year. I think a head coach is ultimately responsible for the way his assistants coach, & Fairchild SUCKED.

[Hanoverbills]

I understand your point & believe me it does have some merit but I think people when they say Losman sucks also realize the system was not doing him any favors but he should of been able to overcome the system's shortcomings. I mean the system did not make him overthrow wide open guys, or continuosly bounce simple 10yrd outs that your local varsity high school qb could make 8 out of 10 times. The system did not make Losman fumble on a 4th & inches qb sneak against jacksonville late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The system I believe is not responsible for the fact that the bill's record with Losman as the starting qb is 10-21 & in that same time span when anyone else starts at qb the bills record is 9-8. I think that is what people are referring too when they say he sucks.

I watch the Superbowl and a good pass rush made the best QB in football look really bad ,he was bouncing balls and overthrowing WRs and that was with recievers who were taller than 6 foot.Look until this past year, we didn't have a good pass blocking line.They didn't even block good for Willis or any our runningbacks.Also i don't understand why our offensive coordenator didn't change our offensive plays to Losman strength ,if all his short throws are bounce passes or overthrown passes and your QB is com. more than 63% of his passes that means you should spread your receivers out and throw it deep.I wonder how many high school kids could complete 63% of his passes.Especally deep passes.Look I didn't say anything bad about Edwards but how come when Edwards name comes up ,somebody has to put down Losman?Edwards is our starting QB and the only way Losman gets in is if Edwards gets hurt.

[Adam]

This post is about 6 months early, give him full year at the helm first.

 

GO BILLS!!!

He will struggle this season based on the talent around unless we film the opposing sidelines for him- look how that turned a nothing-happening linebacker from the Steelers into a hall of fame, do-everything guy for New England. Ever hear of a backup linebacker for Pittsburgh named Mike Vrabel?

 

Trent has a lot of talent, but he's a second year guy. It will not be an easy season for him, particularly with few good targets to throw to

[dave mcbride]

Bledsoe was never the same after the injury vs. the jests. We both know this. Still, he had enough left to stick around and afford JP time to learn the game, and perhaps even step in at some point mid-season. Instead, he was cut, Dallas made the playoffs, and we had to watch Holcome.

 

It wasn't pretty, and it certainly didn't help Losman.

You're wrong, Bill. For better or worse, Bledsoe was *exactly* the same player after the injury as before. Indeed, his 2002 season was one of the best of his career, and his 2004/2005 seasons were pretty much par for the course vis-a-vis his lifetime production. And I would argue that in his final game for the Cowboys, he was as good physically as he was in his first couple of seasons -- he still had a great arm (I watched a lot of Dallas games), he was just as immobile as before, and his mental acuity regarding the game never changed once he hit his stride a couple of seasons in. As you may recall, his last pass was a terrible INT at the end of the first half when Dallas was close to the end zone against the Giants on a Monday night. The pass that wasn't the primary or secondary option in the play design either. In other words, he was what he always was. In fact, if he's keeping himself in shape, I strongly suspect he's exactly the same player he was in earlier seasons.

[IDBillzFan]

And therein lies your problem. You choose not to admit or remember the good. Last year, you remember, when Losman was terrible the entire year? On passes 10 yards or less, you know, those high percentage ones he throws in the dirt? Counting those countless thousands of terrible passes, he completed 72.1% of passes 10 yards or less. Edwards, you remember, the guy with the laser accuracy who rarely throws these terrible passes? He completed 59.7% ten yards or less.

Yeah, but Edwards was a rookie and Losman is a 12-year-vet. Or will be one day. But that's close enough.

[eball]

Yeah, but Edwards was a rookie and Losman is a 12-year-vet who cost the Bills fifteen draft picks. Or will be one day. But that's close enough.

Edited for accuracy.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I am even floating a #5 out there for you. Jauron/Levy went right for secondary help in 06. It was as if developing JP was a non-issue in terms of getting him help. Jauron did almost the same thing to Trent this year.

If #4 was the biggest factor, I am placing mine as second.

 

Jmo.

Good post, K-dog. There was a thread a while back that got wiped in the server crash (I think) about JPL's phugtarded development process and how that reads like a textbook for what not to do to develop a young, project QB.

 

I think other teams aren't interested in JPL, at least in trading for him, because of a number of factors, some of which have been touched on.

 

1) He's going into the last year of his current contract, so to get value in such a trade the team would have to be willing to extend him. He hasn't shown enough to get such an extension. What is his market value? Is he ever going to blossom into a starter or will he continue to lay eggs and struggle? He hasn't shown he can take a starting QB job and hold onto it.

 

2) Other personnel people, like Bill Parcells, most likely see some of the same bad habits as Bills fans do. JPL just seems to lose focus of what he is doing out on the field at times, not working his way through the progression but big-time pressing and trying to make something happen instantly. Then his mechanics can go to carp and he launches a worm burner or a watermelon. (By the way, JPL has a career completion percentage of a hair under 59.1% (even with the '05 egg laying), which is excellent and exactly what a coach wants to see. It's much better than Eli Manning, who clearly is surrounded by a much better football team. It is also ahead of Drew Bledsoe at a similar point in their careers.) The very next series he'll stand in the pocket and deliver a strike down the sidelines. If these habits were slowly fading, that'd be one thing; but, they seem to continue to pop up like weeds.

 

3) The NFL markets superstars and it needs high-profile guys like 1st round QBs to come in early on and deliver, almost straight out of the gate. That's a tall order and it should come as no surprise that JPL, along with most QBs, has struggled in that. He was a college QB that got by on moxie and pure athleticism at a small school. To demand that he materialize into an NFL starter in '05 was sheer arrogance by Donahoe, Mularkey and Clements. Even so, bringing in a guy like JPL in a trade as a probable starter and with that 1st rounder label, could cost a front office guy his job if it gets ugly. Why take a chance on that? Heck, Daunte Culpepper has proven he can play in the NFL and GMs aren't interested in him and they have to trade nothing at all. This will be JPL's 5th season and his 3rd offense. By contrast, Peyton Manning has been in the same offense for 10 years. Continuity would've been nice; maybe Trent will have some.

 

4) What offense suits JPL's strengths? For that matter, what are his strengths? How does a coach make him comfortable out there and let the play come to him? He was Tom Donahoe's 1st rounder, so who's really going to stick their neck out for an extended time to give JPL every possible chance as an unquestioned starter? If Coach Conservative isn't willing to go more than a season and a handful of games, who is?

 

5) Who knows what the Bills want in compensation? The Bills may be of the opinion still that JPL has more talent and upside and is worth more than others are willing to pony up. Indeed, it is not inconceivable that they are hedging their bets with TE, who is not a proven commodity at this point and could go down to injury at any time.

 

JPL was a QB who might have had a chance if he had gone to a team with an established veteran QB (like Favre, Peyton, etc.) and he could've rode the pine and learned the NFL game for a few years. He might still surprise and pull it out of the dive he's in now; who knows? With the success his draft class is having, I wouldn't be totally shocked. No, it just wouldn't be very shocking to see JPL blossom after he leaves Buffalo.

[eball]

Not sure how any other conclsuion if possbile.

 

Instead of 3 players, they got JP.

 

Looks like he cost them 3 picks to me.

I agree with that statement. That tells me he "cost" them two picks.