Beerball Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 The muck 'n mire is starting to smell really crappy, and I'm tired of some folks' inability to understand that constructive (and sometimes unconstructive) criticism of Edwards is not equal to hoping he fails. Some feel he is going to be a great QB. Some feel that it is much too early to tell.
Robert Paulson Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 The muck 'n mire is starting to smell really crappy, and I'm tired of some folks' inability to understand that constructive (and sometimes unconstructive) criticism of Edwards is not equal to hoping he fails. Some feel he is going to be a great QB. Some feel that it is much too early to tell. there is certainly a 'you are either with us or against us' mentality among t.e.'s strongest supporters in reality he has not done much (besides not being j.p.) and people should really take this year to see what he can do because team management is behind him and he is the starter PLUSSES he played well for a rookie at times he took few negatve plays he found his 2nd/3rd receiver quickly for many on this board- he is not j.p. DELTAS he found his 2nd/3rd receiver too quickly sometimes he got worse in Q4 than the early quarters he got worse as the season progressed not withstanding the 12 page message string his arm strength still needs to be proven he needs to show he can play in the cold rain & snow
Heels20X6 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 there is certainly a 'you are either with us or against us' mentality among t.e.'s strongest supporters in reality he has not done much (besides not being j.p.) and people should really take this year to see what he can do because team management is behind him and he is the starter PLUSSES he played well for a rookie at times he took few negatve plays he found his 2nd/3rd receiver quickly for many on this board- he is not j.p. DELTAS he found his 2nd/3rd receiver too quickly sometimes he got worse in Q4 than the early quarters he got worse as the season progressed not withstanding the 12 page message string his arm strength still needs to be proven he needs to show he can play in the cold rain & snow DELTAS?!?! How dare you speak ill of the 'chosen one'?!? The Trent-inites will amass and burn down your village for your indiscretions! The Losman-iacs can't help you now!!!!
BillnutinHouston Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 in reality he has not done much (besides not being j.p.) and people should really take this year to see what he can do because team management is behind him and he is the starter -AGREE PLUSSES he played well for a rookie at times - AGREE I GUESS he took few negatve plays he found his 2nd/3rd receiver quickly for many on this board- he is not j.p. DELTAS he found his 2nd/3rd receiver too quickly sometimes he got worse in Q4 than the early quarters - * PROBLEM * he got worse as the season progressed - * BIG PROBLEM * not withstanding the 12 page message string his arm strength still needs to be proven - AGREE he needs to show he can play in the cold rain & snow - AGREE Disclaimer for the board - critiquing a player is not the same thing as a lack of support. Ask any coach.
kota Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 DELTAS?!?! How dare you speak ill of the 'chosen one'?!? The Trent-inites will amass and burn down your village for your indiscretions! The Losman-iacs can't help you now!!!! I am a Losman fan and a Trent Edwards Fan. I personally don't care who the QB as long as we stick with someone for a whole year. I don't think Losman had a fair shake last year. From week one our offense as a whole was dismal and going in the first 3 weeks going against top 10 defenses from the year prior. I also understand that Trent Edwards as a rookie in the same offense put up similar or better numbers then Losman did. Although he came to be the starter after a number of the tougher Playoff teams were out of the way. I think Trent Edwards has alot of upside and should probably be the starter going forward based upon what was seen last year. He fits in my mind the typical QB a franchise needs. A big, tall QB who knows how to stand i the pocket and deliver a throw when a 260 pound Linebacker is blitzing and going to knock you on your ass. Personally i don't think the coaching staff plays to the strengths of the players they try to force them into a mold.
Heels20X6 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I am a Losman fan and a Trent Edwards Fan. I personally don't care who the QB as long as we stick with someone for a whole year. I don't think Losman had a fair shake last year. From week one our offense as a whole was dismal and going in the first 3 weeks going against top 10 defenses from the year prior. I also understand that Trent Edwards as a rookie in the same offense put up similar or better numbers then Losman did. Although he came to be the starter after a number of the tougher Playoff teams were out of the way. I think Trent Edwards has alot of upside and should probably be the starter going forward based upon what was seen last year. He fits in my mind the typical QB a franchise needs. A big, tall QB who knows how to stand i the pocket and deliver a throw when a 260 pound Linebacker is blitzing and going to knock you on your ass. Personally i don't think the coaching staff plays to the strengths of the players they try to force them into a mold. You and I are on the exact same page Kota. For me it was hard to judge the talent of either quarterback when the system they were playing in was so inept that it looked like it was devise by a half-retarded yelper monkey. I just found it hilarious that people were so convinced on the abilities of either quarterback based on what we saw last year. Face it folks, until we see otherwise, the QB position is still a HUGE question mark for this team.
C.Biscuit97 Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 The muck 'n mire is starting to smell really crappy, and I'm tired of some folks' inability to understand that constructive (and sometimes unconstructive) criticism of Edwards is not equal to hoping he fails. Some feel he is going to be a great QB. Some feel that it is much too early to tell. Agreed but there are those who make comments like when Trent gets injured. To me, that's like rooting for the guy to get hurt. I don't give a crap who the QB is. They both they have their faults. I was one of the biggest Losman fans (still like the guy a lot) and really wanted him to suceed. But he played himself out of a job. I think it is pretty stupid to make any big judgement of any rookies play, much less a QB. The critics of Edwards fail to realize that he played extremely well for a rookie. However, it was the big time QB play needed to make the playoffs. He needs to improve, which I think he will. His critics, for whatever the reason, assume he won't. And I really don't understand what a joy a Bills fan would get in predicting that outcome. Bottomline, if Edwards was entering his 5th year in the NFL and his play was on par with Losman's this past season, I wouldn't want him starting either.
Robert Paulson Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 DELTAS?!?! How dare you speak ill of the 'chosen one'?!? The Trent-inites will amass and burn down your village for your indiscretions! The Losman-iacs can't help you now!!!! i know i took a chance listing areas that are concerns and/or need improvement maybe after 35+ years of watching football starting at 6 years old i still don't know anything but i did not see in T.E. what a lot of people on this board claim to see. he might be good or even great but is not a lock to be anything more than kelly holcomb the rose colored glasses trent is god people will be on me quickly for that for the record: i think j.p. got screwed and can still be a good Q.B. in this league, but barring some disaster w/ T.E. it won't be for the Bills. Team management has moved on
IDBillzFan Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 You and I are on the exact same page Kota. For me it was hard to judge the talent of either quarterback when the system they were playing in was so inept that it looked like it was devise by a half-retarded yelper monkey. I just found it hilarious that people were so convinced on the abilities of either quarterback based on what we saw last year. Face it folks, until we see otherwise, the QB position is still a HUGE question mark for this team. That's a balls-on accurate comment. Unfortunately, neither of us has the unique and impeccable ability to watch a Bills football game and know, without any question whatsoever, that a particular quarterback sucks. I really wish we had those smarts. Imagine how great it would be to see past the inept offerings of a pathetic offensive coordinator so people won't call you a (fill in the blank) sympathizer. !@#$ing people.
the_franchise Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Why would any Bills fan want to see one of OUR players fail? Especially on a coming season with a lot of potential.
hit and marshawn Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Disclaimer for the board - critiquing a player is not the same thing as a lack of support. Ask any coach. This could be a positive though, maybe he is progressing so quickly that he learns how to correct these problems this off season, since they happened in his first year, and can avoid a "sophmore slump" these may be his growing pains. Also as for the end of the season two of those games were abnormally bad weather, I know he needs to play in bad weather as a Bills QB, but cleveland you couldnt see 5 ft from you, and the giants game was abnormally bad as well. Lets hope he hit his major growing pains already and can correct them, and continue progression from here on instead of falling backwards
kegtapr Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 Why would any Bills fan want to see one of OUR players fail? Seriously, I wish no ill will upon any individual player. I want to see the whole team fail.
Gordio Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 That's a balls-on accurate comment. Unfortunately, neither of us has the unique and impeccable ability to watch a Bills football game and know, without any question whatsoever, that a particular quarterback sucks. I really wish we had those smarts. Imagine how great it would be to see past the inept offerings of a pathetic offensive coordinator so people won't call you a (fill in the blank) sympathizer. !@#$ing people. I understand your point & believe me it does have some merit but I think people when they say Losman sucks also realize the system was not doing him any favors but he should of been able to overcome the system's shortcomings. I mean the system did not make him overthrow wide open guys, or continuosly bounce simple 10yrd outs that your local varsity high school qb could make 8 out of 10 times. The system did not make Losman fumble on a 4th & inches qb sneak against jacksonville late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The system I believe is not responsible for the fact that the bill's record with Losman as the starting qb is 10-21 & in that same time span when anyone else starts at qb the bills record is 9-8. I think that is what people are referring too when they say he sucks.
Buffalo_soul-dier Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 *sigh*...its good to see that the offseason shannanigans have lead us again to the edwards losman debates....guess this mean training camp is coming!
keepthefaith Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 This could be a positive though, maybe he is progressing so quickly that he learns how to correct these problems this off season, since they happened in his first year, and can avoid a "sophmore slump" these may be his growing pains. Also as for the end of the season two of those games were abnormally bad weather, I know he needs to play in bad weather as a Bills QB, but cleveland you couldnt see 5 ft from you, and the giants game was abnormally bad as well. Lets hope he hit his major growing pains already and can correct them, and continue progression from here on instead of falling backwards I look forward to the Trent/JP debate continuing throughought this upcoming season. It will and it can be entertaining.
DC Tom Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I would like to see Edwards fail, because winning only hurts the franchise. </posted on DeLuca's behalf>
JasoninMT Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 There's a difference between "Want" him to fail... and "Think" he will fail... I don't Want anyone on the team to fail... but I personally think he will... He will more than likely fail to live up to whatever sick and wrong expectations are put on him by some fans. Buffalo Bills fans expect every QB to live up to a very MYTHICAL expectation to be as good/great as the great Jim Kelly... I remember the "Jim Kelly Era"... Jim Kelly didn't live up to the expectations fans placed on him... as time goes on, the legend grows as people who only heard or recall the best times forget all the other things - playing poorly while injured but refusing to leave due to the fear of the growing love for Frank Reich. The fact that despite being a good QB, he was unable to win a Superbowl. If we don't stop holding our QBs up to this mythical standard, we'll continually burn out players and churn through QBs as fast as we do Head Coaches. I've said it many times... JP got a raw deal - and for that some fans feel bad for him. No, he wasn't the second coming of Jack Kemp or Jim Kelly... But, he wasn't Todd Collins or RJ either... He lost his job due to injury - and when he got it back, it was "temporary" because every week the coaches refused to say he was the starter for good. I don't know about most of you, but if you were replaced with a trainee at your job and made to stand around and watch him struggle at times but be told that you probably would lose your job to him, how would you feel? Betrayed? Hurt? A little angry? Trent Edwards is not going to throw for 5,000 yards, 50 TDs and have no Picks... Hell, I bet he won't throw for 3,500 yards, 30 TDs and only 10 picks. So, will that be "success"? The team isn't going to win 19 games next season... The team is probably not going to win 12 games next year, so is that "success"? I don't want the boy to fail... I just know that he will fail to meet the ridiculous expectations fans place on him. Both sides of the debate are going to place high expectations on him, his backers, because they think he can do it and JP cannot... his detractors because they know he can't and therefore it will be easy to denounce him as NOT the solution - which to them would prove JP should have been given the chance. Since I'm powerless to make the decisions at One Bills Drive... I choose to support their decision, and hope that it works out for the team.
Gordio Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 There's a difference between "Want" him to fail... and "Think" he will fail... I don't Want anyone on the team to fail... but I personally think he will... He will more than likely fail to live up to whatever sick and wrong expectations are put on him by some fans. Buffalo Bills fans expect every QB to live up to a very MYTHICAL expectation to be as good/great as the great Jim Kelly... I remember the "Jim Kelly Era"... Jim Kelly didn't live up to the expectations fans placed on him... as time goes on, the legend grows as people who only heard or recall the best times forget all the other things - playing poorly while injured but refusing to leave due to the fear of the growing love for Frank Reich. The fact that despite being a good QB, he was unable to win a Superbowl. If we don't stop holding our QBs up to this mythical standard, we'll continually burn out players and churn through QBs as fast as we do Head Coaches. I've said it many times... JP got a raw deal - and for that some fans feel bad for him. No, he wasn't the second coming of Jack Kemp or Jim Kelly... But, he wasn't Todd Collins or RJ either... He lost his job due to injury - and when he got it back, it was "temporary" because every week the coaches refused to say he was the starter for good. I don't know about most of you, but if you were replaced with a trainee at your job and made to stand around and watch him struggle at times but be told that you probably would lose your job to him, how would you feel? Betrayed? Hurt? A little angry? Trent Edwards is not going to throw for 5,000 yards, 50 TDs and have no Picks... Hell, I bet he won't throw for 3,500 yards, 30 TDs and only 10 picks. So, will that be "success"? The team isn't going to win 19 games next season... The team is probably not going to win 12 games next year, so is that "success"? I don't want the boy to fail... I just know that he will fail to meet the ridiculous expectations fans place on him. Both sides of the debate are going to place high expectations on him, his backers, because they think he can do it and JP cannot... his detractors because they know he can't and therefore it will be easy to denounce him as NOT the solution - which to them would prove JP should have been given the chance. Since I'm powerless to make the decisions at One Bills Drive... I choose to support their decision, and hope that it works out for the team. Are we as fans not suppose to have any expectations when it comes to players? Have we been subject to such lousy qb play for the last decade or so that we are all suppose to do a happy dance whenever our qb does not fumble the snap or throw an interception? Sorry, Iam tired of seeing lousy qb play. My expectation of Edwards was zero last year considering that I did not think there was any chance he would even see the field. Since I had no expectations of Edwards, I was pleasantly surprised at the way he handled himself & played last year. My expectations of Edwards this year is that I expect him to keep progressing, helping this team along the way of winning football games & having a key hand to keep us in the playoff mix the whole season. Really, is that too much to ask? My expectation of Losman last year was I expected him to continue & progress off of his 06 season. I expected him to be a leader, leading this team to a wildcard spot. Well, we all know how it turned out.
Ramius Posted June 24, 2008 Posted June 24, 2008 I understand your point & believe me it does have some merit but I think people when they say Losman sucks also realize the system was not doing him any favors but he should of been able to overcome the system's shortcomings. I mean the system did not make him overthrow wide open guys, or continuosly bounce simple 10yrd outs that your local varsity high school qb could make 8 out of 10 times. The system did not make Losman fumble on a 4th & inches qb sneak against jacksonville late in the 4th quarter with the game on the line. The system I believe is not responsible for the fact that the bill's record with Losman as the starting qb is 10-21 & in that same time span when anyone else starts at qb the bills record is 9-8. I think that is what people are referring too when they say he sucks. You're making up anecdotal evidence and treating it as fact. One of the biggest myths is that Losman "continually bounces short passes," and i know this is a favorite of the losman bashers. Plain and simple, Losman does not complete 62 and 63% of his passes the past 2 seasons if all he does is bounce short passes. As for the system, look at this: Losman is a gunslinger, plain and simple. Holcomb and 2007 Edwards worked the offense by using short dump off passes. The reason why people say the system was at fault was because aside form the final 9 games of 2006, Losman was never given free reign of a wide open offense. Losman got stuck in a system that benefited a QB style similar to that of noodle arm and Edwards. So thats why the system sucked. Fairtard forced losman into his "system" and didnt play to Losman's strengths. You should fit the system to the players strengths, not vice versa.
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