Sisyphean Bills Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 And, let's not underestimate the "getting guys to show up." Have you ever had a job with a bad or domineering boss? Yes. What does that do? Usually people start working half-assed, they dread coming into work, they don't go the extra mile... What a display of professionalism. Thinking about some of the bad boss situations that I have been in 1st hand, I'd have to say the opposite usually happened. The team basically decides the boss is a loose cannon or joke and works harder to make things happen in spite of him. And, upper management wasn't asleep at the wheel -- those bad managers generally got moved aside to staff positions or found new positions in other companies. I've also had situations with a good boss and peers taking in-plant vacations in the group. And being bored to tears with the constant team meetings and lectures about personal accountability, etc. Jauron's players tend to like him,work hard for him, he creates a team atmosphere where they're all in it together and they believe they can win Well, maybe they do believe that. On the other hand, I still recall the body language of the Bills players against the Patriots last year and seeing Bills players smiling and laughing in the 4th quarter after the Patriots had scored a touchdown every time they had the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ax4782 Posted June 22, 2008 Share Posted June 22, 2008 It seems like you have to name names. Like who exactly were all these 4th stringers that were starting. George Wilson Jason Jefferson Jon Corto Ryan Neill Jerametrius Butler Leon Joe E.J. Underwood Ashton Youboty Corey Mace John Wendling There were more, but I thought this would answer the question. The real issue is that some people think that the coach is always to blame. You actually said it yourself that Buffalo had a paper thin offense and an offense that was anemic thanks to horrendous play calling by SF. See that has more to do with the problems than anything the coach could have done. He gets his players to show up and delegates playcalling duties to his coordinators, you know, the guys getting paid money to make those calls. Yeah, those guys. I'm really sorry that they didn't hire Mike Sherman or Mike Martz or whoever it was that you wanted them to hire two and a half years ago. However, the point of the posts here has been that Jauron has never had a solid QB, even on teams where his players were halfway decent. The point is, the players make the plays, the coach doesn't. You need decent players to have a good season. Now, Jauron finally has a pretty decent roster that has fewer depth issues than last season. Let's give him a chance to win with the tteam he and this FO have put together before running him out of town. Because, we've been having a lot of success with the FO and Coaching Carousel over the last four years. The last thing we need right now is yet another change to jumble up the works and force us to start over from scratch. A whole new scheme, a whole new set of players to fit that scheme. Right back into the toilet. Your call for a new coach really makes a lot of sense. Yeah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 snip These guys were starters ... um ... when? http://www.nfl.com/players/ryanneill/profile?id=NEI632518 http://www.nfl.com/players/johnwendling/profile?id=WEN189981 http://www.nfl.com/players/leonjoe/profile?id=JOE270111 http://www.nfl.com/players/jasonjefferson/...le?id=JEF215144 http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1226144 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10905 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10256 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wagon Circler Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I think opening day will tell us a lot about what kind of team we have, just as it did last year. Seattle is the kind of team... if we are a good team we will beat them. If we're not we won't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Whether they started or not is not the issue. The point is they all played more minutes then any of us would have liked or felt comfortable with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 He's a good coach, he just needs a QB. Hopefully Trent will develop this season into a solid starter. Edwards is a promising young QB, but he is in his second year as a pro and first year as a starter- and the team is still very flawed offensively. I am hoping he makes it through the year in one piece and we are still optomistic at this point next year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Whether they started or not is not the issue. The point is they all played more minutes then any of us would have liked or felt comfortable with. Check out the links. Some of those names played 0 minutes. That is too much? Here's E.J. Underwood's 2007 stats from NFL.com. http://www.nfl.com/players/e.j.underwood/g...gs?id=UND203145 This says he played a few minutes but for the New York Giants. Here is another link that clearly stated he was on the practice squad, which makes him ineligible to see any action on Sundays. http://www2.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/play...E.J._Underwood/ Bottom line: Everybody knows there were injuries last year. But making sh-- up to make it seem even worse than bad is pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Seems to me you are trying to make the argument that the Buffalo defense wasn't torn apart by injuries last year. Is that true? These guys were starters ... um ... when? http://www.nfl.com/players/ryanneill/profile?id=NEI632518 http://www.nfl.com/players/johnwendling/profile?id=WEN189981 http://www.nfl.com/players/leonjoe/profile?id=JOE270111 http://www.nfl.com/players/jasonjefferson/...le?id=JEF215144 http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/players/playerpage/1226144 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10905 http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=10256 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 In the bad weather games at the end of the season, Jauron didnt seem to have his team up and ready for the biggest games of the year. I know the weather was awful, but I'm not really even talking about the losses. Cleveland surely looked less affected by the weather the entire game. We seemed to be just out of it, and played scared, right from the start and throughout, in the games where Buffalo is supposed to have the advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elegantelliotoffen Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 In the bad weather games at the end of the season, Jauron didnt seem to have his team up and ready for the biggest games of the year. I know the weather was awful, but I'm not really even talking about the losses. Cleveland surely looked less affected by the weather the entire game. We seemed to be just out of it, and played scared, right from the start and throughout, in the games where Buffalo is supposed to have the advantage. The Peters injury absolutely killed us against the NYG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly the Dog Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 The Peters injury absolutely killed us against the NYG. We had a couple good drives at the beginning of the game with some long gainers but we just gave up when things started going bad. When we still had a chance, the defense was just getting dominated, which had little to do with the Peters injury. By the time of the Bradshaw run, we looked like we weren't even trying (the Terrence McGee INT notwithstanding). I don't think the whole team gave up, I just thought that when weather should have been to our advantage, it became almost a disadvantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eball Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 In the bad weather games at the end of the season, Jauron didnt seem to have his team up and ready for the biggest games of the year. I know the weather was awful, but I'm not really even talking about the losses. Cleveland surely looked less affected by the weather the entire game. We seemed to be just out of it, and played scared, right from the start and throughout, in the games where Buffalo is supposed to have the advantage. Why is Buffalo "supposed to have the advantage" in cold weather games against teams from cold weather cities? They weren't playing the Dolphins or Bucs. I didn't see a lack of readiness from the Bills in either of those games; against Cleveland I saw a poor offensive gameplan and a poor throwing performance by Edwards, and against NY I saw a bad run defense exposed and an offense that went ultra-conservative after early success and the injury to Peters. A couple of bad snaps in each game also contributed significantly to the results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hit and marshawn Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 I was at the Cleveland game, neither QB could be blamed for a poor preformance. The weather was horrendous, you could litterally have shot a ball out of a cannon and it would not have gone straight, there were times where from my seats i couldnt even see the goal posts, and multiple times my beer froze in my hand, so people need to stop using that game as a barometer for how trent played last season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Check out the links. Some of those names played 0 minutes. That is too much? Here's E.J. Underwood's 2007 stats from NFL.com. http://www.nfl.com/players/e.j.underwood/g...gs?id=UND203145 This says he played a few minutes but for the New York Giants. Here is another link that clearly stated he was on the practice squad, which makes him ineligible to see any action on Sundays. http://www2.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/play...E.J._Underwood/ Bottom line: Everybody knows there were injuries last year. But making sh-- up to make it seem even worse than bad is pathetic. Well sorry we can take one or two off the list. The bottom line was the starters were injured. You can try and refute that, can but that is well documented. Our team did not have our best for most of the season. DJ still had us in the playoff hunt till the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ax4782 Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Check out the links. Some of those names played 0 minutes. That is too much? Here's E.J. Underwood's 2007 stats from NFL.com. http://www.nfl.com/players/e.j.underwood/g...gs?id=UND203145 This says he played a few minutes but for the New York Giants. Here is another link that clearly stated he was on the practice squad, which makes him ineligible to see any action on Sundays. http://www2.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/play...E.J._Underwood/ Bottom line: Everybody knows there were injuries last year. But making sh-- up to make it seem even worse than bad is pathetic. You were right about Leon Joe. My bad. So you found one guy on the list that didn't start and said that I made it up. The fact is all of the players on that list, with the exception of Joe had significant minutes over the course of the season because of injuries. When Kelsay and Denney were both hurt, Corey Mace and Ryan Neill got significant minutes over that four week period. That was due to the fact that both Al Wallace and Anthony Hargrove were out of the lineup and could not play. See you just want to say that the team didn't really have it that bad last year so you can be critical of Jauron because you didn't like him to begin with. The fact is George Wilson was a PS player who started a significant number of games at the end of the season. Wendling saw significant time backing up Wilson, and filling in for Whitner during a two game absence with an ankle or knee injury, I forget which. Jon Corto also filled in time in those positions. Those were third and fourth string guys. Jerametrius Butler played significant minutes at corner as well, and Youboty started the final two games of the season. Those guys are both third or fourth stringers. Kyle Williams could also be considered a third stringer, and he started for most of the season. I think John DiGiorgio might count as well, he got a ton of time as a rookie backing up injured Paul Posluzny, also a rookie. So, to suggest that I "made sh-t up" is a bit disingenuous, particularly considering the turnover defense the Bills run where substitutions play a key role. The fact is the D was riddled with injuries and at one point we had seventeen players who had started a game on injured reserve. If you want to live in a fantasy world where injuries don't matter, that's your choice. The rest of us will choose to look at reality and say that the team played pretty damn well for having that many guys out on injured reserve. I don't care if you don't like Jauron. I personally think he is on thin ice if the Bills don't have a winning season this year. But to suggest that he is the one who is primarily responsible for the teams failures last year is just ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted June 23, 2008 Share Posted June 23, 2008 Well sorry we can take one or two off the list. The bottom line was the starters were injured. You can try and refute that, can but that is well documented. Our team did not have our best for most of the season. DJ still had us in the playoff hunt till the end of the season. Mathmatically they were in the hunt, but never did the Bills look like a playoff team last year. Over the past 2 years, how many games have the Bills won against teams with a winning record? About zero. A long way to go for this team and Jauron has a lot to prove before he can be considered anything but a bust as a head coach. This is a "show me" year for DJ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Seems to me you are trying to make the argument that the Buffalo defense wasn't torn apart by injuries last year. Is that true? No, that is not true. I am just calling bull sh--. Listing the practice squad supports nothing whatsoever with respect to injuries. Every team in the NFL has practice squad players; it proves nothing. Well sorry we can take one or two off the list. The bottom line was the starters were injured. You can try and refute that, can but that is well documented. Our team did not have our best for most of the season. DJ still had us in the playoff hunt till the end of the season. I've already posted several times that the Bills had injuries. That's stupid even for a straw man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OCinBuffalo Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Mathmatically they were in the hunt, but never did the Bills look like a playoff team last year. Over the past 2 years, how many games have the Bills won against teams with a winning record? About zero. A long way to go for this team and Jauron has a lot to prove before he can be considered anything but a bust as a head coach. This is a "show me" year for DJ. Yeah but somehow I feel better going into this year than the "show me" year for Mularkey. As you say, the first step towards being great is beating the winning teams. However, before you can do that, you have to start by consistently beating the teams you are supposed to beat. Sweeping the Dolphins the last 4 and going 3-1 against the Jets is not bad at all. Hell even the SB teams would lose that 1 off annoying game against some lowly team every year. Here's my early take on the schedule in terms of teams we should beat Miami x2 = not a threat until 2 years from now Jets x2 = I'm not buying the off-season moves, besides, isn't this the Jets we are talking about? Offseason, good, and Jets haven't belonged in the same sentence since I have been alive. Who is their QB? Does anything Faneca does stop said QB from sucking? Especially giving us Stroud, which basically cancels him out? Please start Pennington again and continue that farce. Raiders = mess Chiefs = mess 49ers = mess Rams = mess Cripes, that's 8 right there, looking at this seriously for the first time, that's pretty darn encouraging. But this is what it comes down to for me. On paper we should kill all of these teams. I bet DJ's Bills future is much more tied to beating these teams than losing to the last list below. Middle teams that could go either way Seahawks = this is probably a good test but their division hasn't been serious for the last 4 years. They have won it twice in that time with a 9-7 record, and the other teams have only managed an 8-8 record twice in that time as well. Easily the worst division in football. Strong paper tiger potential out of this team. Cardinals = barely in this group, who plays QB again? Got taken to OT by the 49ers and Falcons? Lost the 49ers twice? 8-8 in the NFC last year Browns = good test Broncos = barely in this group, who plays Dline again? The only reason I put them here is they found a way last year against us. The only real "winning" teams here are the Browns and Seahawks, but neither are teams I think of when I think of the best teams or "winners" this season. Games we are supposed to lose Pats* x2 = I honestly believe that this is the year that we do something stupid like beat the Pats but lose to the Dolphins or something similar, but we are "supposed" to lose both of these San Diego = good consistent team, Pats only got by them due to injuries Jacksonville = good consistent team I think it's reasonable to say that we are underdogs in all of these games. So, based on what you are saying, we have to win at least one of these last for games to call ourselves a good team. But, we really only have 4 "good" teams on the schedule. If we win all but those 4, I think it's gonna be kinda hard to not call this a good team, but then the paper tiger thing is built in. Therefore, in addition to 1/4 from the last list, I would say that we need to win 3/4 of the middle games as well, while allowing for the sure to happen, 1-2 dumbass losses to the Raiders or whoever from the first list. So that's around 10-6, which btw, is what I think we are gonna do every stupid season. But, if we can do that, then yeah, we are a good team, and DJ is a good coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PNW_Bills_Fan Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 No, that is not true. I am just calling bull sh--. Listing the practice squad supports nothing whatsoever with respect to injuries. Every team in the NFL has practice squad players; it proves nothing. I've already posted several times that the Bills had injuries. That's stupid even for a straw man. I like how people who don't DJ just push off the fact the bills were in the hunt late in the season. What does a playoff team look like? It looks like a team in the playoffs. But teams that are in the hunt must look a little like a playoff team in order to be in the hunt. I think if people could put there disdain for DJ behind them and look at what DJ has done with little you would see he is a good coach. I did not say a great coach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 To blame DJ for a couple of those losses is just making excuses for other things. First off, that Broncos game was close, and at the time they were playing a team most thought was a playoff team. They held a lead alomst all game and lost it on a lucky break by the broncos at the end after the Bills team had become devestated after watching one of their close friend leave the field paralized. The inept offence and a catastrophic injury are more to blame the DJ for 1-2 plays at the end of a game. As for the Cleveland game, I think the weather played a much bigger factor in that game then anything either coach could do. Both teams played bad and it was due to the fact that it was a blizzard and severly limited the already limited Bills offence. I don't understand why people get so distraught over the Dallas game and how it was all DJ's fault. I think it would have been much better to have the bills get blown out like they were supposed to and it would be one of those forgotten games like the first NE and Pittsburgh game. Buffalo had no reason to be in that game like they were and if yet again it wasn't for a completly inept offence that couldn't capitalise and score more then FG's all game after being handed it by their defence and Tony Romo, they never would have been in that game. DJ does have the ability to "rally his troops" and get them to follow him and play hard for him, believing in him, just listen to ex-players who say they would love to play for him again. Will that be enough though for the Bills to win it all? who knows, but what he has done with the payers he ahs had shouldn't be looked down on. Not many people outside of Buffalo would say the Bills have had the talent to be a good team right now for DJ's tenure, yet both years his teams have over achieved and been in the playoff hunt late in the season. Lets see what he can do with some more talent that he has now. If there is one thing he can be faulted for, its not canning Fairchild sooner and recognising that his offence was too predictable and costing them games. Also, being a coach who can motivate and prepare teams is a good thing. It might not sound right cause you would figure that these players shouldn't need motivation, but alot of them do. There are alot of players who get their paychecks and play when they feel like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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