Trent Edwards' Arm Strength

[Ramius]

This is empty rhetoric. Every throw needed? What does that mean? Can he toss a 40 yard out pattern? Can he zip it in between 2 defenders at 50 yards? Can he throw a 60 yard bomb without much air? Of course he can't. Neither could Steve Young of Joe Montana?

 

You are simply looking to criticize Edwards, and wincing in agony whan someone compares him favorable to Losman, who isn't good in his 5th year.

 

So by your definition, Edwards is a 2 year vet at this point in time.

 

Also, its foolish to expect that edwards will start 16 games. Chances are Losman will start at least 3 games this season, given Edwards inability to stay healthy over the course of a season.

[Beerball]

I love the offseason. Hope springs eternal. Even the obvious becomes debatable merely weeks after the season ends. But seriously people, take a look at your expectations at this point LAST offseason and then see what unfolded. The offense was going to be explosive, instead it was nothing less than horrendous. The defense was supposed to be improved according to most here......why?...well because the young players now had more EXPERIENCE. Anyone remember this? It wasn't all injuries. The OL was remarkably healthy as were most of the teams better players.

 

Here's a fact, Edwards does not have a strong arm by NFL standards. Sorry, mythbuster, but the DVR doesn't lie. Sure, he can throw the ball 60 yards in the air. The problem is he gets way too much air under his deep throws. He lacks power which is a result of the same sudden, short motion that gives him his quick release and possibly his good control of short to immediate passes. A QB's power comes from his core and the rotation of the hips, and Edwards just doesn't generate much torque in his motion.

 

I would hope that Edwards and the Bills have worked hard this offseason to help him improve this area of his game. It's great that Schonert says the team will run more deep routes. However, also remember that at one point the Bills tried to convince us that Rob Johnson was a west coast offense QB. It's not wise to play to your weaknesses.

 

Expect opposing defenses to take away the underneath routes and FORCE Edwards to throw that deep ball the Bills claim we will see so much of. And if Edwards can't beat them with that deep ball, he is going to get a face full of blitzes and end up where he has been so often in his college and pro career....injured and on the sideline.

 

You want a frame of reference, check out Edwards' second start versus the Jets last year. The Jets are very famialar with how teams defense a QB who lacks arm strength. They dominated Edwards, battered him with blitzes and injured him. Very important to note, the Jets were the only team to face Edwards TWICE. Teams will adapt, he must too. Otherwise, don't be surprised if JP ends up as the starter again at some point during the season. I sincerely hope that Edwards becomes the QB of the future, but I think too many people assume that he has all the tools and just needs experience. Not the case, he has a lot of work to do physically just to become CONSISTENT, let alone good.

Good post, thanks.

[Kelly the Dog]

I love the offseason. Hope springs eternal. Even the obvious becomes debatable merely weeks after the season ends. But seriously people, take a look at your expectations at this point LAST offseason and then see what unfolded. The offense was going to be explosive, instead it was nothing less than horrendous. The defense was supposed to be improved according to most here......why?...well because the young players now had more EXPERIENCE. Anyone remember this? It wasn't all injuries. The OL was remarkably healthy as were most of the teams better players.

 

Here's a fact, Edwards does not have a strong arm by NFL standards. Sorry, mythbuster, but the DVR doesn't lie. Sure, he can throw the ball 60 yards in the air. The problem is he gets way too much air under his deep throws. He lacks power which is a result of the same sudden, short motion that gives him his quick release and possibly his good control of short to immediate passes. A QB's power comes from his core and the rotation of the hips, and Edwards just doesn't generate much torque in his motion.

 

I would hope that Edwards and the Bills have worked hard this offseason to help him improve this area of his game. It's great that Schonert says the team will run more deep routes. However, also remember that at one point the Bills tried to convince us that Rob Johnson was a west coast offense QB. It's not wise to play to your weaknesses.

 

Expect opposing defenses to take away the underneath routes and FORCE Edwards to throw that deep ball the Bills claim we will see so much of. And if Edwards can't beat them with that deep ball, he is going to get a face full of blitzes and end up where he has been so often in his college and pro career....injured and on the sideline.

 

You want a frame of reference, check out Edwards' second start versus the Jets last year. The Jets are very famialar with how teams defense a QB who lacks arm strength. They dominated Edwards, battered him with blitzes and injured him. Very important to note, the Jets were the only team to face Edwards TWICE. Teams will adapt, he must too. Otherwise, don't be surprised if JP ends up as the starter again at some point during the season. I sincerely hope that Edwards becomes the QB of the future, but I think too many people assume that he has all the tools and just needs experience. Not the case, he has a lot of work to do physically just to become CONSISTENT, let alone good.

I agree completely on the Edwards evaluation. (Half of) everyone went nuts because he immediately showed that he was very good at one aspect of quarterbacking and completely ignored the other 80%, passing that off as he's a rookie. But he has personality traits and physical limitations that will be difficult to change much.

 

You're also right in theory about expectations. But surely I think even you think we have a better collection of talent this year, as well as a better schedule. Stroud, obviously, will be a key. The OL having a year together even if they underperformed in the run game has got to help barring injury. I am not sold on Schonert being any better than Fairchild, however.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

One of the biggest knocks on Trent Edwards coming into his first full season as a starter has been his arm strength. Obviously,

Obviously, some people just want to complain w/o looking up details. It's "simpler" that way

[Beerball]

I am not sold on Schonert being any better than Fairchild, however.

How can you say this? Heaps of praise belong on his shoulders--you just wait until they put the pads on...

[MDH]

This is empty rhetoric. Every throw needed? What does that mean? Can he toss a 40 yard out pattern? Can he zip it in between 2 defenders at 50 yards? Can he throw a 60 yard bomb without much air? Of course he can't. Neither could Steve Young of Joe Montana?

 

You are simply looking to criticize Edwards, and wincing in agony whan someone compares him favorable to Losman, who isn't good in his 5th year.

 

Unlike you I've never had a favorite horse in this race. I defend JP from the hordes here who want to put the blame for everything on him but that doesn't mean I don't have plenty of issues with his play. I also see some good things in Edwards but I'm not going to cross my fingers and wish upon a star that he is the Bills savior when he has obvious deficiencies in his game.

 

And no, it is not "empty rhetoric." When NFL people talk about a QB being able to make "every throw" they mean he needs to be able to use the entire field (this is exactly what Bado was speaking about up top – go ahead and tell him he’s full of “empty rhetoric”.) Are you really going to play dumb and pretend you don't understand this? Last year Edwards could not effectively use the entire field. You can create ridiculous specific scenarios in an attempt to make a point but it just makes you look ignorant.

[Adam]

Unlike you I've never had a favorite horse in this race. I defend JP from the hordes here who want to put the blame for everything on him but that doesn't mean I don't have plenty of issues with his play. I also see some good things in Edwards but I'm not going to cross my fingers and wish upon a star that he is the Bills savior when he has obvious deficiencies in his game.

The Bills had so much wrong offensively that you really couldn't accurately place blame (although intelligent people wouldn't want to anyways). JP had accuracy issues last year and our WR's weren't talented enough (aside from Evans) to beat man coverage. The fact that we don't have a center who can hold his ground negated much of what was otherwise a pretty good O-line.

 

Then you factor in our weak defense, and even more pressure is heaped on the offense.

[Bill from NYC]

Last year Edwards could not effectively use the entire field. You can create ridiculous specific scenarios in an attempt to make a point but it just makes you look ignorant.

 

Who is looking ignorant? Now you come up with another trite cliche, "using the whole field." What's next? "A stitch in time saves nine?"

 

The kid has very few starts, and he looks better than Losman after 4 seasons. Instead of being happy about this, you are critical, and defensive of JP. I guess you are impressed that JP "used the whole field (whatever this means)." It does sound good. Problem is that much of the field that he used was the turf when tossing ground balls, this when he wasn't hurling passes into the stands.

[C.Biscuit97]

The Bills had so much wrong offensively that you really couldn't accurately place blame (although intelligent people wouldn't want to anyways). JP had accuracy issues last year and our WR's weren't talented enough (aside from Evans) to beat man coverage. The fact that we don't have a center who can hold his ground negated much of what was otherwise a pretty good O-line.

 

Then you factor in our weak defense, and even more pressure is heaped on the offense.

 

 

Again, obviously a QB doesn't single-handely win or loss games, but how do you explain every backup QB to JP outplaying him with the same supporting cast?

[K-9]

I agree completely on the Edwards evaluation. (Half of) everyone went nuts because he immediately showed that he was very good at one aspect of quarterbacking and completely ignored the other 80%, passing that off as he's a rookie. But he has personality traits and physical limitations that will be difficult to change much.

 

You're also right in theory about expectations. But surely I think even you think we have a better collection of talent this year, as well as a better schedule. Stroud, obviously, will be a key. The OL having a year together even if they underperformed in the run game has got to help barring injury. I am not sold on Schonert being any better than Fairchild, however.

 

Are you suggesting that 80% of being an NFL QB is throwing a long ball on a rope?

 

What are these 'personality' traits that you suggest need 'changing?' What physical limitations have hindered his development? You mean scrambling ability? Arm strength?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[MDH]

Who is looking ignotant? Now you come up with another trite cliche, "using the whole field." What's next? "A stitch in time saves nine?"

 

The kid has very few starts, and he looks better than Losman after 4 seasons. Instead of being happy about this, you are critical, and defensive of JP. I guess you are impressed that JP "used the whole field (whatever this means)." It does sound good. Problem is that much of the field that he used was the turf when tossing ground balls, this when he wasn't hurling passes into the stands.

 

Show me where in my post I am "defensive of JP"? The only one defensive of anybody is you of Edwards (and the only one being overly critical is you of JP.) Why does this always have to devolve into a debate between the two QBs? What is being discussed here are the attributes and limitations of Edwards yet you keep trying to sidetrack the conversation into JP SUCKS - EDWARDS IS BETTER!

 

I guess you can't actually answer Bado's concerns over Edwards and instead try to shift the focus onto something else.

[Bill from NYC]

Are you suggesting that 80% of being an NFL QB is throwing a long ball on a rope?

 

What are these 'personality' traits that you suggest need 'changing?' What physical limitations have hindered his development? You mean scrambling ability? Arm strength?

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

He was reaching with the 80%, I think that even he will admit that.

Much of the rest was to provide a safety net for JP in case Trent plays well. It will be because the entire team is better, not because Trent, even in his rookie season, was better than Losman.

 

In other words.....a new JP excuse. A long term, original one at that.

[ieatcrayonz]

Who is looking ignorant? Now you come up with another trite cliche, "using the whole field." What's next? "A stitch in time saves nine?"

Trent should remember this if his gloves start to fray.

[Dawgg]

Here's a fact, Edwards does not have a strong arm by NFL standards. Sorry, mythbuster, but the DVR doesn't lie. Sure, he can throw the ball 60 yards in the air. The problem is he gets way too much air under his deep throws. He lacks power which is a result of the same sudden, short motion that gives him his quick release and possibly his good control of short to immediate passes. A QB's power comes from his core and the rotation of the hips, and Edwards just doesn't generate much torque in his motion.

 

How many deep balls did you see Edwards throw? I didn't see that many, so I find it hard to draw a conclusion on his ability/inability to throw the ball deep.

 

Deep routes certainly weren't a staple of the offense last year. Moreover, it took Tom Brady a few years to add the deep ball to his arsenal, so I wouldn't necessarily fret that Trent didn't have a rocket arm in his rookie year. Two throws that did catch my eye: the deep ball he threw to Lee Evans in December against Miami and the 30 yard pass he threw at Washington to Josh Reed -- both throws required considerable arm strength and he executed them quite well all things considered.

 

Expect opposing defenses to take away the underneath routes and FORCE Edwards to throw that deep ball the Bills claim we will see so much of. And if Edwards can't beat them with that deep ball, he is going to get a face full of blitzes and end up where he has been so often in his college and pro career....injured and on the sideline.

 

I sincerely hope that Edwards becomes the QB of the future, but I think too many people assume that he has all the tools and just needs experience. Not the case, he has a lot of work to do physically just to become CONSISTENT, let alone good.

 

Of course he has work to do physically.

 

But I'd rather have a QB who excels at the mental part of the game, makes the right decisions QUICKLY and doesn't make mistakes than the classic rocket-armed QB who has all the physical tools but makes too many mental errors. I've seen plenty of that with Bledsoe and Losman. This guy has a chance, let's see what he makes of it.

[K-9]

Unlike you I've never had a favorite horse in this race. I defend JP from the hordes here who want to put the blame for everything on him but that doesn't mean I don't have plenty of issues with his play. I also see some good things in Edwards but I'm not going to cross my fingers and wish upon a star that he is the Bills savior when he has obvious deficiencies in his game.

 

And no, it is not "empty rhetoric." When NFL people talk about a QB being able to make "every throw" they mean he needs to be able to use the entire field (this is exactly what Bado was speaking about up top – go ahead and tell him he’s full of “empty rhetoric”.) Are you really going to play dumb and pretend you don't understand this? Last year Edwards could not effectively use the entire field. You can create ridiculous specific scenarios in an attempt to make a point but it just makes you look ignorant.

 

It would he far more accurate to say that the Bills' offense couldn't use the entire field, regardless who the QB was. Our only legitimate field stretcher was EASILY taken out of the game. Parrish and Reed ARE NOT wideouts. Especially Parrish who's size out wide is a liability. NO TE that opponents had to respect to stretch the middle of the field. Result? Stacked LOSs, no running lanes, Evans doubled over top, few options. Lots of pressure. QBs can't use the entire field if other skill personnel aren't using it either.

 

Defenses did NOTHING different against us whether it was JP or Edwards. They knew what we COULDN'T do based upon the personnel we had. We were simply too easy to defend. As a result we were in far too many non-favorable down/distance situations for BOTH QBs to manage. That's what dictated the number of blitzes more than anything else. Now add the fact that we wouldn't let either QB audible (which I find hard to believe) and defenses had even LESS to worry about. They could dictate more often than we could.

 

Didn't matter if it was the cannon arm JP or the weak arm Trent. Until our offense is designed to exploit the entire field it will be more of the same. This whole argument is about JP's superiority in throwing the long pass. And that's all well and good. Guess what pass is the EASIEST for a defense to take away? Especially in long down/distance situations? The Bills better work on 'spreading' the field if they want any hope of going over the top more consistently. And spreading the field is part and parcel to 'using the entire field.' Indeed, using each third is what gives defenses more to worry about. And if your QB can't do that it doesn't matter how strong his arm is.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[djh]

Edwards wears gloves cause its tooooo cold. Do we have to discuss anything else about this guy.

 

I'm not gonna get into the injury rap sheet.

[Flbillsfan#1]

He was reaching with the 80%, I think that even he will admit that.

Much of the rest was to provide a safety net for JP in case Trent plays well. It will be because the entire team is better, not because Trent, even in his rookie season, was better than Losman.

 

In other words.....a new JP excuse. A long term, original one at that.

Trent did not outplay JP last year PERIOD. I just saw the Redskins game again, & for most of that game Trent did EXACTLY what you accuse JP of. He underthrew & overthrew his receivers time after time. The only drive he looked good was the last drive of the game. This thread is about TRENT not JP, try defending him on his own merits. If the Bills do well in 08 Trent will have played a part, but if they make the playoffs it will be because the entire team is better, not because Trent is at QB.

[Adam]

Again, obviously a QB doesn't single-handely win or loss games, but how do you explain every backup QB to JP outplaying him with the same supporting cast?

every back-up QB? Are you seeing double? JP didn't play well last season, and nobody will debate that. While I don't think we should change QB's again and go back to him, it doesn't make him a throw away QB. He showed flashes of the success he had two seasons ago.

 

As far as Edwards goes, he showed promise as well, but lets not get ahead of ourselves- he showed flashes too, but has a very long way to go. When he struggles this year and possibly next, I hope the coaching staff not only ignores the fans desire to change QB's, but I hope the staff shows distain for the fans and talks down to them

[keepthefaith]

every back-up QB? Are you seeing double? JP didn't play well last season, and nobody will debate that. While I don't think we should change QB's again and go back to him, it doesn't make him a throw away QB. He showed flashes of the success he had two seasons ago.

 

As far as Edwards goes, he showed promise as well, but lets not get ahead of ourselves- he showed flashes too, but has a very long way to go. When he struggles this year and possibly next, I hope the coaching staff not only ignores the fans desire to change QB's, but I hope the staff shows distain for the fans and talks down to them

 

The next coaching staff will better evaluate, coach and utilize the QB.

[Adam]

The next coaching staff will better evaluate, coach and utilize the QB.

Don't get your hopes up- Wilson is very happy with Jauron. Hopefully he will be here for a very long time.