Trent Edwards' Arm Strength

[SouthernMan]

One of the biggest knocks on Trent Edwards coming into his first full season as a starter has been his arm strength. Obviously, he doesn't have a cannon like Losman. But I believed his arm strength is pretty good and not nearly as bad as some make it out. So I did some research and thought the results were pretty interesting. Here are the stats of Tom Brady's 1st and 3rd seasons as a starter (his 2nd and 4th season as a NFL); Peyton Manning's rookie season; and JP Losman's 1st season as a starter (his 2nd season):

 

In 2001, Brady (his 2nd season) completed 32 passes of 20+ yards out of 413 attempted (http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/...56&season=2001). That is a percentage of 8%.

 

In 2002, Brady (his 3rd season) completed 37 passes of 20+ yards out of 601 attempted (http://www.nfl.com/players/tombrady/...56&season=2002). That percentage is 6%.

 

In 1998, Peyton Manning (rookie season) completed 42 passes of 20+ yards out of 575 attempted (http://www.nfl.com/players/peytonman...97&season=1998). That's a percentage of 7%.

 

Losman (2nd season) completed 15 passes of 20+ yards out of 228 attempted. That percentage is 6% (http://www.nfl.com/players/j.p.losma...29&season=2005).

 

Trent Edwards (rookie season) completed 21 passes of 20+ yards out of 269 attempted. That percentage is 8% (http://www.nfl.com/players/trentedwa...s?id=EDW720778).

 

 

So basically, Edwards had the best % of 20+ yard passes of any of those guys mention (he tied Brady once). In no way am I suggesting that Edwards will ever be Manning or Brady. But I think right now, that should pretty much kill this stupid arm strength reason for several reasons:

 

1) Manning and Brady both improved as deep passers as their careers progressed. So perhaps, and this is nuts I know, Edwards could improve???

 

2) Brady's first few seasons showed you can win by so called "dinking and dunking" down the field. As the players and his knowledge of the game progressed, Brady began taking more shots down the field.

 

3) Besides Lee Evans, there are no major threats in the passing game. Hopefully, Hardy can at least keep defense more honest in their coverage.

 

4) Finally, arm strength can only take you so far. A lot of QBs with cannons for arm couldn't make it in this league. Jeff Garcia throws like a girl, yet has taken 3 different teams to the playoffs and has been a multiple pro bowler.

 

So I propose letting this Edwards' lack of arm strength talk die down. I feel very cormfortable with TE under center and I'm looking for some big improvements to this offense.

 

3)

 

 

I don't know where these myths get started. Can anyone cite a specific example where they witnessed one of Edwards' passes fall short due to lack of arm strength? Hell, every QB at the NFL level can air it out. Some just take less body torque and have more efficient movement and zip from the wrist (see Dan Marino). Trent may not be in the upper tier of QBs in terms of arm strength (I actually have no idea where he might rank), but he wouldn't be playing in the NFL if he couldn't hit a receiver beyond 40 yards.

 

In reality, the need to throw the occasional bomb is far less important that the ability to read defenses and be an every-down manager of the offense. Edwards has shown a sense for finding secondary receivers. I believe the offensive brass also had enough confidence to allow him to call audibles. It's largely acknowledged that that he has a better grip on the mental part of the game than does JP, possessor of the superior arm.

 

The NFL scrap heap is overflowing with "cannon-armed QBs" once regarded as potential franchise saviors because of their throwing ability. Rob Johnson anyone? The poster child for this decription has to be Jeff George. All the physical tools but he never sniffed a Superbowl. On the other hand, there have been a number of QBs who weren't generally regarded to have Hurculean arm strength, but were brilliant QBs (see Joe Montana).

 

At this time, I have absolutely no reason to have concern over Edwards' arm strength.

 

Gettin' psyched. How many days 'til the season opener?

[SuperKillerRobots]

That would be the pertinent question for EVERY NFL team! I strongly doubt the QB has EVER existed that could throw a 15 yard out in a 30 mph cross-wind and NOT have it move in a way it shouldn't. The two strongest armed QBs I've ever seen personnally, James Harris and John Elway, were just as ineffective in high-wind conditions as any other QB. It's a lot harder to throw an out pattern in high winds, especially at the Ralph where they tend to swirl sideline to sideline, than it is any other route so they would try to compensate by throwing it even harder which just messed up the pass even more.

 

There are just gonna be some days where you know going in you're not going to be able to throw the ball as planned. There have been LOTs of games over the years like that at the Ralph (Rich).

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

OK, so maybe the 15 yard out in 30 mph winds at the Ralph was a bad example, but the point is that if you have a guy with a stronger arm, ther e is a better chance he will be able to put a little more zip on it to keep the spiral tight in the winds. The best example I can think of has to be Brett Farve. He played in those bad conditions in GB and seemed to do a very good job at keeping the spirals tight (not always the most accurate even inside though).

 

Also, I don't by any means think that Edwards has a poor arm. I thinkit's right to say his isn't as strong as JP's, but that doesn't mean much. I also beleive that, as another poster said about Brady, he will improve his deep throws by being in the NFL conditioning program and just getting a better feel for when to take shots. I get the feeling from watching Edwards play that he isn't a dumb-risk-taker. He'll do it when he has to, but isn't going to force it deep if it's not there.

[Adam]

Distance in gained yardage can be very deceiving. Catching a 50-yard bomb in the middle of the field is MUCH different than catching a 50 yard bomb on the deep outs at the sideline. Edwards may never have the cannon for that type of throw, but if we get him some talented targets, ones that will run routes and fight for the ball, he will do fine.

[1billsfan]

Drive for show putt for Doe.

 

 

Oh really???? Well that certainly rules out Trent then.

 

 

Here's a list of the TD percentages per pass attempts of the league's current cream of the crop (2007 season/career average)...

Eli 4.3 / 4.3

Rivers 4.6 / 4.6

Brady 8.3 / 5.4

Garrard 5.5 / 4.2

Favre 5.2 / 5

Romo 6.9 / 6.4

Peyton 6.0 / 5.7

 

Edward's was a very poor 2.6 (fyi, in 2006 Losman had his best with a 4.4)

 

The MOST important job of an NFL QB is to get the ball into the endzone. If Trent fails to do this job on a consistent basis in 2008 his team is done. Until Edwards can in fact "putt for doe", he and his teammates won't be seeing any playoffs.

 

 

As for Edward's arm strength, his deep throws look like lollipop passes to me (easy pickings against any good NFL CB). Doesn't mean he still can't get it done, just means that it is an area of concern from my point of view. Touchdowns, not necessarily arm strength, is the key to being a successful NFL QB period. I see 10 TD passes by midseason and 20 total as Trent and this team's target area.

[K-9]

Distance in gained yardage can be very deceiving. Catching a 50-yard bomb in the middle of the field is MUCH different than catching a 50 yard bomb on the deep outs at the sideline. Edwards may never have the cannon for that type of throw, but if we get him some talented targets, ones that will run routes and fight for the ball, he will do fine.

 

Um, I don't think the 50 yard out is in anyone's playbook.

 

Hulk's maybe.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[john]

Distance in gained yardage can be very deceiving. Catching a 50-yard bomb in the middle of the field is MUCH different than catching a 50 yard bomb on the deep outs at the sideline. Edwards may never have the cannon for that type of throw, but if we get him some talented targets, ones that will run routes and fight for the ball, he will do fine.

 

 

Adam, you make a good point. The deep out is considered to be a true test of how strong an NFL QB's arm is going to be at this level. However, I had to chuckle a little bit when I read '50 yard bomb on the deep outs at the sideline.' I don't think I've ever seen a QB throw a 50 yard out at any level of the game. I think a true indicator of strength can be measured by the ability to get the ball out quickly and on target on a 15 or 20 yard out. I just don't think there is a QB in the game that can throw an accurate 50 yard out. Maybe I am wrong. Example?

[Adam]

Adam, you make a good point. The deep out is considered to be a true test of how strong an NFL QB's arm is going to be at this level. However, I had to chuckle a little bit when I read '50 yard bomb on the deep outs at the sideline.' I don't think I've ever seen a QB throw a 50 yard out at any level of the game. I think a true indicator of strength can be measured by the ability to get the ball out quickly and on target on a 15 or 20 yard out. I just don't think there is a QB in the game that can throw an accurate 50 yard out. Maybe I am wrong. Example?

You are correct- I was just using 50 yards as an example, and a bad one for the deep outs, but it illustrates the difference

[K-9]

Oh really???? Well that certainly rules out Trent then.

 

 

Here's a list of the TD percentages per pass attempts of the league's current cream of the crop (2007 season/career average)...

Eli 4.3 / 4.3

Rivers 4.6 / 4.6

Brady 8.3 / 5.4

Garrard 5.5 / 4.2

Favre 5.2 / 5

Romo 6.9 / 6.4

Peyton 6.0 / 5.7

 

Edward's was a very poor 2.6 (fyi, in 2006 Losman had his best with a 4.4)

 

The MOST important job of an NFL QB is to get the ball into the endzone. If Trent fails to do this job on a consistent basis in 2008 his team is done. Until Edwards can in fact "putt for doe", he and his teammates won't be seeing any playoffs.

 

 

As for Edward's arm strength, his deep throws look like lollipop passes to me (easy pickings against any good NFL CB). Doesn't mean he still can't get it done, just means that it is an area of concern from my point of view. Touchdowns, not necessarily arm strength, is the key to being a successful NFL QB period. I see 10 TD passes by midseason and 20 total as Trent and this team's target area.

 

Be sure to get back to us after Edwards has 37 appearances and 31 starts over his first 4 years in the league.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Simon]

I just don't think there is a QB in the game that can throw an accurate 50 yard out. Maybe I am wrong. Example?

I saw this commercial once where Ron Mexico whipped one right out at of the stadium.

It was awesome!

[K-9]

I saw this commercial once where Ron Mexico whipped one right out at of the stadium.

It was awesome!

 

Yeah, but was it accurate or did he miss the dog completely?

 

GO BILLS!!!

[stuckincincy]

Adam, you make a good point. The deep out is considered to be a true test of how strong an NFL QB's arm is going to be at this level. However, I had to chuckle a little bit when I read '50 yard bomb on the deep outs at the sideline.' I don't think I've ever seen a QB throw a 50 yard out at any level of the game. I think a true indicator of strength can be measured by the ability to get the ball out quickly and on target on a 15 or 20 yard out. I just don't think there is a QB in the game that can throw an accurate 50 yard out. Maybe I am wrong. Example?

I've memory of seeing pure, 50-yards-in-the-air completions through the many years, but I sure couldn't name names.

 

I think there are several QBs that can do that, year after year, but often the WR out there is there because of blown coverage or a defender slipped down, and the WR is just as surprised as anybody else that they are so open. And they drop that wide-open pass.

[1billsfan]

Be sure to get back to us after Edwards has 37 appearances and 31 starts over his first 4 years in the league.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Trent was good to go in 2008. At least that what his big fans like you were saying. I didn't realize the expectations have now been lowered to Losman's NFL learning curve. Talk about a moving target. Will you guys make up your minds already? Is he ready or not? If he is, he needs to get the damn ball into the damn endzone in 2008. If he's not, Jauron will no doubt pull the plug in a last ditch effort to safe his job. Because if this team is heading for another losing record, he takes the fall. The fire Dick Jauron mob will grow exponentially and the backups WILL get their chances. Be it Losman or the other guy.

[Captain Hindsight]

The people who say Trent Edwards doesn't have arm strength is because they are comparing it to JP. JP has an exceptionally strong arm. He probably has one of the strongest arms in the NFL. Comparing Trent's arm to JP's is apples to oranges if you ask me. You would be better off comparing Trent's Arm to the rest of the QB's in the NFL.

 

I will admit first time i saw Trent throw the ball i was like "WTF is that". His release looks weird to me but after watching him it looks weird because has a very quick release. Because he is so quick with it it looks like he isn't putting anything into it. Brett Favre has the same quick release so it looks similar.I am confident that Trent can hit Lee Evans in stride 50-60 yards down the field.

Brett Favre had some of the worst mancanics in the nfl, hes nothing but a gunslinger

[Bmwolf21]

Brett Favre had some of the worst mancanics in the nfl, hes nothing but a gunslinger

I don't care if it's Trent, JP or Hamdan -- I'll take a gunslinger, a guy with bad mechanics, or even someone whose throwing motion looks like a monkey humping a football if he wins regularly, wins a Super Bowl and puts up those kind of numbers throughout his career.

[ieatcrayonz]

Trent Edwards' Arm Strength

 

Jumbo shrimp

 

Oops. Based on the title, I thought this was the proxy moron thread.

[K-9]

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Trent was good to go in 2008. At least that what his big fans like you were saying. I didn't realize the expectations have now been lowered to Losman's NFL learning curve. Talk about a moving target. Will you guys make up your minds already? Is he ready or not? If he is, he needs to get the damn ball into the damn endzone in 2008. If he's not, Jauron will no doubt pull the plug in a last ditch effort to safe his job. Because if this team is heading for another losing record, he takes the fall. The fire Dick Jauron mob will grow exponentially and the backups WILL get their chances. Be it Losman or the other guy.

 

As usual you miss the point. Be that as it may, he's as ready as any 2nd year QB is gonna be for better or for worse. Or, to put it another way, he's the most ready QB we have on our roster at the moment. Methinks you're expecting too much. It's not about lowering expectations. It's about being realistic about them.

 

Then again, the crux of your argument, as it's ALWAYS been, is "JP is better." Expecting JP to be anything more than he's shown to this point in his career is the very definition of lowering expectations.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Adam]

I'm sorry, I was under the impression that Trent was good to go in 2008. At least that what his big fans like you were saying. I didn't realize the expectations have now been lowered to Losman's NFL learning curve. Talk about a moving target. Will you guys make up your minds already? Is he ready or not? If he is, he needs to get the damn ball into the damn endzone in 2008. If he's not, Jauron will no doubt pull the plug in a last ditch effort to safe his job. Because if this team is heading for another losing record, he takes the fall. The fire Dick Jauron mob will grow exponentially and the backups WILL get their chances. Be it Losman or the other guy.

Personally, I think Edwards is a good QB, but we rushed him too much. Actually, both him and JP were rushed too much. The Bills should NOT have started JP when they did, and they should have kept Bledsoe- that was a huge mistake by Donahoe, one of his many. JP should have been allowed to develop slowly- like we planned when we drafted him. Now we are doing the same with Edwards.

 

Donahoe's problem was summed up by Levy- "When you start listening to the fans, you will end up sitting with them."

[1billsfan]

As usual you miss the point. Be that as it may, he's as ready as any 2nd year QB is gonna be for better or for worse. Or, to put it another way, he's the most ready QB we have on our roster at the moment. Methinks you're expecting too much. It's not about lowering expectations. It's about being realistic about them.

 

Then again, the crux of your argument, as it's ALWAYS been, is "JP is better." Expecting JP to be anything more than he's shown to this point in his career is the very definition of lowering expectations.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

Let's talk about missing the point. It seems that my point flew over your head. That being, Edwards MUST get the ball into the endzone this year or the Bills are toast. Your arguing this point is very funny to me. It's also funny that any criticisms of Edwards is always met with the "well you like JP better" comebacks. My only mention of JP was in the example of his best and only year as the fulltime starter. Like it or not, he did have a good TD pass percentage. Edwards needs to "up" his game. It seems that many here are already enamored with him and refuse to see any flaws. He's the Bills version of Obama. Sorry, but Trent rarely threw touchdown passes. It's a flaw in his game. He needs to correct it or Jaroun will be forced to bench him in an effort to save his job. Be it in favor of Losman or Hamdan.

[Bill from NYC]

Sorry, but Trent rarely threw touchdown passes. It's a flaw in his game. He needs to correct it or Jaroun will be forced to bench him in an effort to save his job. Be it in favor of Losman or Hamdan.

Yeah, rookies are flinging TD passes at will all over the NFL, right?

 

What you omit is the fact that Losman sucks. He is a 5th year proven loser, and will continue to lose wherever he goes. The only reason that he is still on the team is because he is virtually worthless in terms of a trade. He has lost his job to a rookie and a post surgery Kelly Holcomb. The reason for this is that he is a poor NFL qb, this after being handed the job for no reason.

 

I like him with a dust pan, but he is a horror show with the football. You should give it up my friend.

[YOOOOOO]

I'm hoping Edwards deep ball issues were more confidence then lack of arm strength.....From what we saw last year, noone here can say with confidence that Edwards will make all the throws consistently....