Trent Edwards' Arm Strength

[1billsfan]

Nice rant, 1billsfan, except for one teensy weensy insignificant fact you overlooked -- Jauron doesn't call the plays, and if you believe he's an honest man (I do), he has indicated he doesn't "tell" the OC what plays to call either.

 

I think Jaroun's full of crap. Why else would the Bills trot out his favorite player A Train time and time again when he continued to show he had absolutely nothing to offer our team? Why would the head coach, Dick Jauron, let Fairchild ride the Bills conservative offense back to the 40's? The answer is he wouldn't. If he in fact DID leave Steve Fairchild alone all season while he was coordinating the most inept offense in this franchise's history then he should be fired on the spot. When you are the head man in charge, it means that you are paid to make the hard decisions like telling your subordinates what they are doing is not working, needs to be changed, and they will be either demoted or fired if these changes are not made in quick order. Either way 2007 proved Dick Jauron is not head coaching material.

[Gordio]

Clearly, it was weather aided.

 

 

If you watched that game at all, you would of noticed he was lights out until the monsoon hit. I think he put up 14 points in the 1st quarter. The wind started up & no reasonable person could of expected to do much in the air once the weather hit.

[Gordio]

Ahhhh, the 4th quarter of the Denver game. Let's talk about that 4th quarter Bill..

 

The same quarter where the coaches moronically called for three straight plays to Anthony Thomas then punted???? Of course the first two downs were A-Train runs which totaled a whopping -2 yards and the third play was a short pass from Losman for 8 yards.

 

The same quarter when the moronic coaching then thought it would be smart to run Lynch into the pile on 1st and 2nd downs then call a deep bomb on a 3rd and 5 situation????

 

The Denver game was the harbinger of the pathetic playcalling we would be seeing all season long. A lot of fans here can only see the shiny things on the surface and still refuse to look deeper than "JP Losman sucks, it's all his fault, let's move on!" mantra.

 

Thank you for brining up the Denver game Bill, I have never ever been so pissed off at Buffalo Bills coaching in my life than I was in 2007 and that includes the Kay Stephenson/Hank Bullough years. This jerk Jauron talked about how they were going to "open up" the offense and build on 2006 and then goes into his shell like the turtle minded head coach he is. Well he doesn't have the Losman "excuse" any longer. This jerk is finally going to be held accountable for his pathetically conservative and seven years and counting losing head coaching style in 2008. It makes me sick that this guy has got off scott free by fans and media alike. He sucks bad.

 

I agree with you, the play calling that day was horrendous. Totally playing not to lose, but.... with that being said if Losman completes the pass to Evans, a pass that an NFL qb with a supposed great accurate long ball should be able to complete 9 out of 10 times the bills win.

[1billsfan]

I agree with you, the play calling that day was horrendous. Totally playing not to lose, but.... with that being said if Losman completes the pass to Evans, a pass that an NFL qb with a supposed great accurate long ball should be able to complete 9 out of 10 times the bills win.

 

While Losman does hit an open Evans at a very high rate he did miss him long that play. But my blame falls squarely on the coaching for not letting Losman throw the ball on those 1st and 2nd downs in those final two possessions, when the game was on the line. When it was time for a move the chains pass or QB scramble the coaches showed zero faith in the guy and then had the balls to go ask for him to complete a "roll of the dice" deep bomb pass. 9 out of 10 times? That's ridiculous and you know it. They went from conservative to unsound at the worst possible times. Every single play call those last two possessions were bad ones that did not put their players in the best possible position to have success.

[Fan in San Diego]

While Losman does hit an open Evans at a very high rate he did miss him long that play. But my blame falls squarely on the coaching for not letting Losman throw the ball on those 1st and 2nd downs in those final two possessions, when the game was on the line. When it was time for a move the chains pass or QB scramble the coaches showed zero faith in the guy and then had the balls to go ask for him to complete a "roll of the dice" deep bomb pass. 9 out of 10 times? That's ridiculous and you know it. They went from conservative to unsound at the worst possible times. Every single play call those last two possessions were bad ones that did not put their players in the best possible position to have success.

 

That was one of those WTF moments ! I believe that was SF's fault more than DJ's. We will see this year if we have some bone headed moments.

[IDBillzFan]

Yeah, rookies are flinging TD passes at will all over the NFL, right?

 

What you omit is the fact that Losman sucks. He is a 5th year proven loser, and will continue to lose wherever he goes.

Sorry to correct you with your own logic, but Edwards is not a rookie. He's a second year vet. If you're going to be precise in truth for one person, please be precise in truth for all.

 

If you're going to hate Losman vehemently, try to do it with some level of competence. Otherwise you just sound whiny.

[eball]

I think Jaroun's full of crap. Why else would the Bills trot out his favorite player A Train time and time again when he continued to show he had absolutely nothing to offer our team? Why would the head coach, Dick Jauron, let Fairchild ride the Bills conservative offense back to the 40's? The answer is he wouldn't. If he in fact DID leave Steve Fairchild alone all season while he was coordinating the most inept offense in this franchise's history then he should be fired on the spot. When you are the head man in charge, it means that you are paid to make the hard decisions like telling your subordinates what they are doing is not working, needs to be changed, and they will be either demoted or fired if these changes are not made in quick order. Either way 2007 proved Dick Jauron is not head coaching material.

Jauron is loyal to his subordinates and is a delegator -- in much the same way as Marv Levy. It's an admirable character trait, although not what impatient fans want to see. There are many who argue Walt Corey cost the Bills a couple of Super Bowls and blame Levy for being too loyal. Fans want to see a coach who will schit-can a coordinator after one blown call, even though that is rarely a good idea (Bruce DeHaven, anyone?).

 

Jauron has had a run of bad luck with offensive coordinators, to be sure. After seeing 2nd half of the year improvement in 2006, however, it's not particularly surprising Jauron stuck with Fairchild in 2007. Thankfully the college job came along and spared Jauron the task of relieving Fairchild of his duties -- which would almost certainly have been done.

 

You go ahead with your hating, however.

[Ramius]

Except sacks were at an all time team low. Would they have been yet lower if JP was in there? I am not just asking you. I am asking the rest of the guys at your network, LEN (Losman Excuse Network). Maybe Ramius, the Executive Excuse Producer might want to weigh in.

 

I'll respond to you when you can address a criticism of edwards without the phrase, "JP Losman sucks, thats why edwards is good." But, i dont see that happening anytime soon, so continue your whine-fest.

 

Just so the rest of us know, since the calendar turned to summer, have you now officially turned the page from "whine about DBs in every post" to "whine about Losman" in every post?

[ganesh]

If you watched that game at all, you would of noticed he was lights out until the monsoon hit. I think he put up 14 points in the 1st quarter. The wind started up & no reasonable person could of expected to do much in the air once the weather hit.

 

Agreed...In fact the Giants threw the ball 2 times the whole of 2nd half preferring to use their running game...Unfortunately, Fairchild decided that we need to pass the ball in these conditions.

[Kelly the Dog]

Was he very pedestrian for the entire season, or did he look good, or even fabulous a couple of times? Passive agressive are we?

Reading comprehension deficient, are we? I said he was very pedestrian the entire season against the rush. I said he looked very average when asked to go deep or hard intermediate routes excluding a couple good passes, and a couple fabulous ones, I believe both may have been in the Redskins game. Those were two different comments.

Except sacks were at an all time team low. Would they have been yet lower if JP was in there? I am not just asking you. I am asking the rest of the guys at your network, LEN (Losman Excuse Network). Maybe Ramius, the Executive Excuse Producer might want to weigh in.

Sacks were at an all-time low for several various obvious reasons. For morons, I will list them again, even though they were plain to see:

1. The OL had a great year in pass protection.

2, Very conservative plays were called for Edwards to avoid him getting into trouble.

3. We ran a lot on third downs and other passing downs, too.

4. He very often threw quick short passes, eliminating the rush factor.

5. He very often did not look to make plays downfield on passing downs and dumped the ball off quickly, whereas other quarterbacks tried to scramble and make first downs and often got sacked more or in trouble holding the ball too long.

 

They would have been higher with Losman in there.

 

On 2-5 it wasnt ALWAYS the case, just the majority of the time. Each of those cut the sack totals down significantly.

I don't agree with all of the above, but if every word was true, why is he the starter? Btw, not smart in the pocket? Yeah, OK. He happens to be good at side stepping pressure and getting the ball away, thus the low sack stats. Would you like it better if he hopped around like a beheaded chicken and tossed a ground ball? The answer is surely yes, whereas we know who you want to start.

He's very good at getting the ball away quickly because he makes quick decisions and he has a very quick release. Both excellent qualities. If you actually watched the games, I would defy you to name more than a handful of plays the entire season when the rush was on him, he moved in the pocket and avoided the rusher. He simply didn't do it a lot. We went through this last season on this board when myself and others actually watched every single play on replays and couldnt find when he stepped up or aside very much.

Let's talk about Montana throwing consistent deep balls. Bledsoe sure could throw them all day. JP has a good deep arm too, with 2.5 wins per year to show for it. The fact is that many qbs have done quite well without having a cannon for an arm.

Again, you cannot read. I said he hasn't thrown the ball down the field well yet. It's a fact. He will need to. I didn't say his arm is inadequate. In fact, I said it was. I have always said it was. He just hasn't done it and he will need to. If you don't think he still needs to show teams he can get the ball down the field consistently, you're a bigger ball-washer than I thought. Oh, and Joe Montana consistently got the ball downfield, btw. I never ever said and don't believe that QBs need a cannon, but they do need to show defenses they can get the ball downfield on a consistent basis.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Sacks were at an all-time low for several various obvious reasons. For morons, I will list them again, even though they were plain to see:

1. The OL had a great year in pass protection.

2, Very conservative plays were called for Edwards to avoid him getting into trouble.

3. We ran a lot on third downs and other passing downs, too.

4. He very often threw quick short passes, eliminating the rush factor.

5. He very often did not look to make plays downfield on passing downs and dumped the ball off quickly, whereas other quarterbacks tried to scramble and make first downs and often got sacked more or in trouble holding the ball too long.

Having absolute garbage around him at Stanford, he was well ahead of the curve in dumping off the ball as a survival instinct. Unfortunately, throwing dump-offs is not a substitute for a productive passing game.

[Kelly the Dog]

Having absolute garbage around him at Stanford, he was well ahead of the curve in dumping off the ball as a survival instinct. Unfortunately, throwing dump-offs is not a substitute for a productive passing game.

Agreed.

 

Dump-offs, however, are a very effective tool. And Edwards very often did it quite well. He was also coached by the Bills to dump it off quickly to avoid getting into situations he couldn't get out of. Not dissimilar to the way they handcuffed Losman early in 2006. It was a way to protect him and it sort of worked. My problem with Edward's dump-offs were mostly on third downs when he wouldn't really try to get the first down after his first look downfield, then OVERLY quickly dumped the ball off to a RB or TE that had little to no chance of getting the first down. That must change.

[Ramius]

Agreed.

 

Dump-offs, however, are a very effective tool. And Edwards very often did it quite well. He was also coached by the Bills to dump it off quickly to avoid getting into situations he couldn't get out of. Not dissimilar to the way they handcuffed Losman early in 2006. It was a way to protect him and it sort of worked. My problem with Edward's dump-offs were on third downs when he wouldn't really try to get the first down after his first look downfield, then OVERLY quickly dumped the ball off to a RB or TE that had little to no chance of getting the first down. That must change.

 

Agreed. I am hoping that an increase in confidence from year 1 to year 2 and just being more comfortable with the pro game will cause him to sit back a bit more and let the intermediate and deeper patterns develop. Obviously if the rush is in his face, you're going to want him to dump it off, but i'd definitely liek to see him got through his progressions and then look to dump it if all 2 or 3 initial options are covered. And i agree with the 3rd downs. I'd rather see him wait and toss a 12 yard incomplete pass on 3rd and 9 instead of dumping it off to the RB or TE in the flat who then needs to run for the first down.

[RI Bills Fan]

Agreed. I am hoping that an increase in confidence from year 1 to year 2 and just being more comfortable with the pro game will cause him to sit back a bit more and let the intermediate and deeper patterns develop. Obviously if the rush is in his face, you're going to want him to dump it off, but i'd definitely liek to see him got through his progressions and then look to dump it if all 2 or 3 initial options are covered. And i agree with the 3rd downs. I'd rather see him wait and toss a 12 yard incomplete pass on 3rd and 9 instead of dumping it off to the RB or TE in the flat who then needs to run for the first down.

 

You'd rather see him throw a longer incompletion, which has no chance of picking up the first down, than see him complete a shorter pass that gives the reciever a chance to pick up the first down by making someone miss????????????

 

WTF????????

 

Please tell me that was a typo.

[Adam]

How did you like the 4th quarter of the Denver game last year?

No QB- even fully developed hall of famers pull it out every game- nor do they play well every game. Sure, he played like crap in that game. The whole offense did. No part of our offense played well at all.

 

What is lost on people when JP or any other QB leads a comeback is that every aspect of the team is playing well. Again, I am not saying he should start, but just that he is a viable starter in the league.

[Kelly the Dog]

You'd rather see him throw a longer incompletion, which has no chance of picking up the first down, than see him complete a shorter pass that gives the reciever a chance to pick up the first down by making someone miss????????????

 

WTF????????

 

Please tell me that was a typo.

You know what he meant. If you took two seconds to think.

 

He means, say, if there are ten passing downs of 3rd and 9, he wants his quarterback to try to make a pass that gains at least nine yards 10 out of 10 times rather than just dump the ball off too quickly with no chance of getting the first downs. He'll accept the incompletions on a few or several of those ten plays because at least the QB is trying to get the first and has a chance of getting the first. Otherwise, it's just giving up and punting 9 out of 10 times or even 10 out of 10 times because there is very little chance of that kind of dump off gaining the first down.

[RI Bills Fan]

You know what he meant. If you took two seconds to think.

 

He means, say, if there are ten passing downs of 3rd and 9, he wants his quarterback to try to make a pass that gains at least nine yards 10 out of 10 times rather than just dump the ball off too quickly with no chance of getting the first downs. He'll accept the incompletions on a few or several of those ten plays because at least the QB is trying to get the first and has a chance of getting the first. Otherwise, it's just giving up and punting 9 out of 10 times or even 10 out of 10 times because there is very little chance of that kind of dump off gaining the first down.

 

I know exactly what he meant, I just think that strategy is BS. Yes I want the primary option on the play to be a route where the reciever catches the ball beyond the sticks, But the secondary option of completing a shorter pass and hoping that the reciever can make the first tackler miss is far better IMHO than just chucking it past the downs markers and hoping it doesn't get picked.

 

OBTW there is a huge difference between getting the ball into the hands of one of your playmakers and expecting them to do something after the catch, and just giving up.

[Kelly the Dog]

I know exactly what he meant, I just think that strategy is BS. Yes I want the primary option on the play to be a route where the reciever catches the ball beyond the sticks, But the secondary option of completing a shorter pass and hoping that the reciever can make the first tackler miss is far better IMHO than just chucking it past the downs markers and hoping it doesn't get picked.

 

OBTW there is a huge difference between getting the ball into the hands of one of your playmakers and expecting them to do something after the catch, and just giving up.

Oh I get it. You say WTF and I hope it's a typo -- then say you know exactly what he meant -- and THEN make a post that's not anything what he meant -- even though it was just explained to you and you said you know exactly what he meant.

 

He was saying, in general, on 3rd and 9, after say two seconds in the pocket, he would rather have a quarterback hold the ball an extra second or two to try to make a play downfield, even if it were eventually an incomplete pass. Because sometimes, if not often, a player will come open or an option will become apparent in seconds three and four, and the QB needs to try to make the play rather than dump the ball off too quickly after two seconds where the dump off player is highly unlikely to make 9 yards. He is NOT saying he likes 9 yard incompletions or prefers them to five yard gains on 3rd and 9.

[Bill from NYC]

You know what he meant. If you took two seconds to think.

 

He means, say, if there are ten passing downs of 3rd and 9, he wants his quarterback to try to make a pass that gains at least nine yards 10 out of 10 times rather than just dump the ball off too quickly with no chance of getting the first downs. He'll accept the incompletions on a few or several of those ten plays because at least the QB is trying to get the first and has a chance of getting the first. Otherwise, it's just giving up and punting 9 out of 10 times or even 10 out of 10 times because there is very little chance of that kind of dump off gaining the first down.

 

I think that much would depend on the score, and how much time remains. I am sure that Ramius knows this, but he didn't say it.

 

This is another example of how stats can be deceiving.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think that much would depend on the score, and how much time remains. I am sure that Ramius knows this, but he didn't say it.

 

This is another example of how stats can be deceiving.

Because he was talking in general terms. He is not supposed to or expected to list every possible scenario.