Trent Edwards' Arm Strength

[krazykat]

Edwards is a better short passer than Losman is. By how much is debatable.

 

But one thing that most people ignore when talking about this is the fact that when Losman was in there a lot of plays were 7-step drops and he just didn't have the time.

 

Last season they changed all of that for Edwards to 3 and 5 step drops. Naturally it reduced sacks, which wrongfully Edwards gets credit for. But the offense didn't get more productive. It actually got less productive.

 

The reason why Losman took all those sacks was not because in Rob Johnson-esque fashion he just sat back there and waited, and waited, and waited, and never got rid of the ball, but because our OL sucked at pass blocking.

 

Well, it's the same line. And since they're planning on putting more 7-step drops in there for Edwards, there is no reason to suspect that he's not gonna get sacked a whole lot more this year. The team, falsely, believes that Edwards for some reason is just less prone to getting sacked when Losman is the more mobile QB even. They will figure it out.

 

Either way, if Edwards doesn't start getting more protection, it's gonna be just as ugly as in the past on plays where he has to rely on a pocket.

 

Think about it too, which of our lineman regularly keep defenders out of the backfield? Clearly not Walker, Butler, Fowler, and even Dockery struggled for a G last year.

[obie_wan]

Let's talk about missing the point. It seems that my point flew over your head. That being, Edwards MUST get the ball into the endzone this year or the Bills are toast. Your arguing this point is very funny to me. It's also funny that any criticisms of Edwards is always met with the "well you like JP better" comebacks. My only mention of JP was in the example of his best and only year as the fulltime starter. Like it or not, he did have a good TD pass percentage. Edwards needs to "up" his game. It seems that many here are already enamored with him and refuse to see any flaws. He's the Bills version of Obama. Sorry, but Trent rarely threw touchdown passes. It's a flaw in his game. He needs to correct it or Jaroun will be forced to bench him in an effort to save his job. Be it in favor of Losman or Hamdan.

 

Neither QB threw enough TDs.

 

Most of this problem was from Fairchild not attacking the endzone and actually trying to throw TDs.

 

From some of blurbs from camp, it sounded like Turk was throwing to the endzone from outside the 20 - which is wher them majority of passiong TDs are generated. The defense is not bunched together and the offesnes can still run most patterns.

[eball]

Neither QB threw enough TDs.

 

Most of this problem was from Fairchild not attacking the endzone and actually trying to throw TDs.

 

From some of blurbs from camp, it sounded like Turk was throwing to the endzone from outside the 20 - which is wher them majority of passiong TDs are generated. The defense is not bunched together and the offesnes can still run most patterns.

Sweet Fancy Moses -- I agree with one of your posts. Wonders never cease.

[Bill from NYC]

The reason why Losman took all those sacks was not because in Rob Johnson-esque fashion he just sat back there and waited, and waited, and waited, and never got rid of the ball, but because our OL sucked at pass blocking.

 

No, the reason that JP takes sacks is because he is like a chicken without a head. He is not, nor will he ever be a polished qb. You know why? Because he doesn't have it. No, it's worse....he is God awful.

 

He throws both ground balls, and passes in the stands. He obviously has no feel for the game, this after 4 years. Losman had a better OL than RJ, and I know that this is saying a lot. Yet, RJ was more accurate and had far more touch. Losman is a guy with a very good arm, but he sucks.

 

You might finally be convinced of this if God forbid Losman gets to play this season.

[1billsfan]

Yeah, rookies are flinging TD passes at will all over the NFL, right?

 

What you omit is the fact that Losman sucks. He is a 5th year proven loser, and will continue to lose wherever he goes. The only reason that he is still on the team is because he is virtually worthless in terms of a trade. He has lost his job to a rookie and a post surgery Kelly Holcomb. The reason for this is that he is a poor NFL qb, this after being handed the job for no reason.

 

I like him with a dust pan, but he is a horror show with the football. You should give it up my friend.

 

 

If Losman sucks so bad how in gods name did he throw 19 touchdowns with Price as the number 2 receiver, Steve Fairchild as his OC and the league's absolute worst offensive line? You're clearly overreaching and need to get over the fact that Edwards has been billed as the guy to lead us to the playoffs THIS season. So now this is a "developmental" situation? You guys need to get your stories straight. He's the man now, don't start p'ing your pants and not believing in the dude now. The only way you guys can get your JP hate on now is to use him in your rebuttals towards those who dare to question the great almighty Trent. Have faith in your guy, tell me how he's going to make me look silly that I ever doubted him. You guys seem awfully nervous the closer the season gets.

[ax4782]

Edwards is a better short passer than Losman is. By how much is debatable.

 

But one thing that most people ignore when talking about this is the fact that when Losman was in there a lot of plays were 7-step drops and he just didn't have the time.

 

Last season they changed all of that for Edwards to 3 and 5 step drops. Naturally it reduced sacks, which wrongfully Edwards gets credit for. But the offense didn't get more productive. It actually got less productive.

 

The reason why Losman took all those sacks was not because in Rob Johnson-esque fashion he just sat back there and waited, and waited, and waited, and never got rid of the ball, but because our OL sucked at pass blocking.

 

Well, it's the same line. And since they're planning on putting more 7-step drops in there for Edwards, there is no reason to suspect that he's not gonna get sacked a whole lot more this year. The team, falsely, believes that Edwards for some reason is just less prone to getting sacked when Losman is the more mobile QB even. They will figure it out.

 

Either way, if Edwards doesn't start getting more protection, it's gonna be just as ugly as in the past on plays where he has to rely on a pocket.

 

Think about it too, which of our lineman regularly keep defenders out of the backfield? Clearly not Walker, Butler, Fowler, and even Dockery struggled for a G last year.

 

 

This is just incorrect on so many levels. First of all, on those shorter routes, Edwards is clearly the better passer. He is more accurate and has a faster release. I don't even recall how many times I saw JP make one of those five yard out passes hit the turf on a Sunny windless day when the guy was wide open. More often than not, that ball was at the guy's feet.

 

The seven step drop thing is a good prima facie argument, but it is fatally flawed. I looked some of the game tapes I had recorded from last year because I wanted to see if I was just more impressed with Edwards b/c he WASN'T Loss-man, or if there was actually a noticeable difference. Before JP got hurt in week three, he was holding onto the ball WAY too long. Typically, even on a seven step drop the ball should be out of the QB's hands in no more than 3.5 seconds after the drop. JP held onto the ball much longer than that in many scenarios. And more significantly, he took a lot of sacks he didn't have to because he refused to get rid of the football and just throw it away. That shows, IMO a lack of mental awareness.

 

Our O-Line did NOT suck at pass blocking. We only allowed 26 total sacks last season which was good for a top-7 finish. To suggest that our O-Line is the problem is really trying to stretch the blame and make JP look less culpable for his own failings than he actually was. As for your suggestion that Walker, Fowler, Butler and Dockery were terrible pass blockers, I suggest you go back and look at the total number of sacks the four of them gave up COMBINED last year. I think you'll see that you are COMPLETELY WRONG. Walker had one of the best years of his career last season in terms of pass blocking and Dockery-Peters were one of the best left side tandems in football. Fowler did get pushed around and is admittedly the weak link in the O-Line, but even he was decent in pass protection. Butler was not a starter last season, and I did not look up his personal numbers, but the fact is, even he played well enough when he was in there. I can't repeat this enough. OUR O-LINE IS NOT THE PROBLEM!!!! Having targets who can make plays is.

 

And Schonert has EXPLICITLY stated that he WILL NOT use a seven step drop this season with TE, because he believes in a faster style passing game. Further, he will mix in a lot more no huddle and muddle-huddle system to throw of D's which also requires a shorter drop and quicker release, something that Losman hasn't proven he can handle in the NFL. He just couldn't hack it as a starter. I don't mind the guy being on the bench in case TE gets hurt, but he just can't hack it in the NFL.

 

I'm sorry that the QB you had so much faith in isn't starting for the Bills. Really, I am. I wanted him to work out too. I don't like using First Round Draft Choices on guys who end up not panning out. That being said, Losman has had more than adequate time to grow as a QB and show that he can win games. He put the ultimatum on himself last year with the JAX game. He said it was do or die for him. We lost. And while we were in it until the Fourth Quarter, I recall the play that ended our chances as being a JP underthrown ball that was picked off. Sorry, but TE is the right guy for the job. I'm tired of QB Carousel. Time to stick with a guy and let him prove himself. JP had his chance. He failed the test. Time to move on.

[thebug]

If Losman sucks so bad how in gods name did he throw 19 touchdowns with Price as the number 2 receiver, Steve Fairchild as his OC and the league's absolute worst offensive line? You're clearly overreaching and need to get over the fact that Edwards has been billed as the guy to lead us to the playoffs THIS season. So now this is a "developmental" situation? You guys need to get your stories straight. He's the man now, don't start p'ing your pants and not believing in the dude now. The only way you guys can get your JP hate on now is to use him in your rebuttals towards those who dare to question the great almighty Trent. Have faith in your guy, tell me how he's going to make me look silly that I ever doubted him. You guys seem awfully nervous the closer the season gets.

 

 

You really should change your name to 1JPFAN because it is obvious you are not a Bills fan.

[ganesh]

Let's talk about missing the point. It seems that my point flew over your head. That being, Edwards MUST get the ball into the endzone this year or the Bills are toast. Your arguing this point is very funny to me. It's also funny that any criticisms of Edwards is always met with the "well you like JP better" comebacks. My only mention of JP was in the example of his best and only year as the fulltime starter. Like it or not, he did have a good TD pass percentage. Edwards needs to "up" his game. It seems that many here are already enamored with him and refuse to see any flaws. He's the Bills version of Obama. Sorry, but Trent rarely threw touchdown passes. It's a flaw in his game. He needs to correct it or Jaroun will be forced to bench him in an effort to save his job. Be it in favor of Losman or Hamdan.

 

Whether it has been JP at the helm or Edwards has been the starting QB, the Bills often ran on 1st and 2nd downs when they were in the red zone. The bills just couldn't punch it in the endzone the last 3 years...I don't know if it was conservative play calling or horrible line play, the Bills just weren't a very strong red zone team.

 

In Edwards defense, many of Losmans TDs were from outside the redzone on big plays to Evans or Parrish. What this Bills offense really needs is its slot receivers like Josh Reed and TEs to step up and be strong targets in the redzone. If Evans is covered and our QBs are not tall enough to see the short field then they need to go more inside and Reed and Royals need to step up to get open for Edwards to throw. In fact this is a area of strength for Edwards compared to JP. JP is not that accurate to release the ball quickly. Edwards can release the ball accurately and quickly, something that is a must when throwing in the middle of the end zone. Hopefully the presence of Hardy will make a big difference in the redzone.

[ganesh]

Edwards is a better short passer than Losman is. By how much is debatable.

 

But one thing that most people ignore when talking about this is the fact that when Losman was in there a lot of plays were 7-step drops and he just didn't have the time.

 

That is completely wrong. In fact once Fairchild took over, the first thing he did was to set JPs footwork correct and also to reduce his drop backs to 3-5. The reason JP got sacked more often was he wanted to make a play downfield and held on to the ball. The main reason Edwards got less sacks was better line play from the OL compared to what JP had to deal with. Edwards gets credit because he rarely holds on to the ball, if he doesn't like the play he throws it away. Plus, Edwards did get the benefit of a good running game with Lynch. The year JP had a good season, McGahee did not even try hard.

 

Well, it's the same line. And since they're planning on putting more 7-step drops in there for Edwards, there is no reason to suspect that he's not gonna get sacked a whole lot more this year. The team, falsely, believes that Edwards for some reason is just less prone to getting sacked when Losman is the more mobile QB even. They will figure it out.

 

We will see. This line has definitely improved over the season having got the chance to play through the full season as a single unit. They can only get better. The key is really Fowler and Peters coming back good from that groin injury.

 

Either way, if Edwards doesn't start getting more protection, it's gonna be just as ugly as in the past on plays where he has to rely on a pocket.

 

Think about it too, which of our lineman regularly keep defenders out of the backfield? Clearly not Walker, Butler, Fowler, and even Dockery struggled for a G last year.

 

Agreed...We definitely need this line to be protecting at the 2nd and 3rd level.

[elegantelliotoffen]

He doesn't have a "strong arm" but his arm is strong enough.

[The Senator]

So I propose letting this Edwards' lack of arm strength talk die down.

I thought it had, 'til I saw this thread.

[Ramius]

Yeah, rookies are flinging TD passes at will all over the NFL, right?

 

What you omit is the fact that Losman sucks. He is a 5th year proven loser, and will continue to lose wherever he goes. The only reason that he is still on the team is because he is virtually worthless in terms of a trade. He has lost his job to a rookie and a post surgery Kelly Holcomb. The reason for this is that he is a poor NFL qb, this after being handed the job for no reason.

 

I like him with a dust pan, but he is a horror show with the football. You should give it up my friend.

 

Stay classy supposed "bills fans."

 

Its pretty bad when Edwards is the unquestioned starter and people still feel the need to fling childish personal insults at the backup because he didnt produce as hoped.

[K-9]

Let's talk about missing the point. It seems that my point flew over your head. That being, Edwards MUST get the ball into the endzone this year or the Bills are toast. Your arguing this point is very funny to me. It's also funny that any criticisms of Edwards is always met with the "well you like JP better" comebacks. My only mention of JP was in the example of his best and only year as the fulltime starter. Like it or not, he did have a good TD pass percentage. Edwards needs to "up" his game. It seems that many here are already enamored with him and refuse to see any flaws. He's the Bills version of Obama. Sorry, but Trent rarely threw touchdown passes. It's a flaw in his game. He needs to correct it or Jaroun will be forced to bench him in an effort to save his job. Be it in favor of Losman or Hamdan.

 

Your point? The one about how the QB MUST be able to get the ball into the endzone? That point? My God, I've finally seen the light! I NEVER knew that about football. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

Nobody is enamored with Edwards as you put it. It's just obvious he is light years ahead of where JP was at the same stage of their careers. He may end up sucking even worse in the long run. Many of us have readily stated that over and over and over again around here.

 

Yes he has flaws. Most QBs do. Especially young ones going into their first full season as a starter. The question is: do his strengths outweigh his drawbacks? At this point the resounding answer is yes. At least to those who aren't blinded by their refusal to see that the JP experiment is over.

 

If you judge his low TD percentage as a "flaw" in his game then I suggest you look at the history of rookie NFL QBs. Not first year starters, actual rookies. But first you will have to let go of the absurd theory that "throwing" TD passes is strictly a function of QB play.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Beerball]

Stay classy supposed "bills fans."

 

Its pretty bad when Edwards is the unquestioned starter and people still feel the need to fling childish personal insults at the backup because he didnt produce as hoped.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

 

You really don't expect more do you?

[K-9]

If Losman sucks so bad how in gods name did he throw 19 touchdowns with Price as the number 2 receiver, Steve Fairchild as his OC and the league's absolute worst offensive line? You're clearly overreaching and need to get over the fact that Edwards has been billed as the guy to lead us to the playoffs THIS season. So now this is a "developmental" situation? You guys need to get your stories straight. He's the man now, don't start p'ing your pants and not believing in the dude now. The only way you guys can get your JP hate on now is to use him in your rebuttals towards those who dare to question the great almighty Trent. Have faith in your guy, tell me how he's going to make me look silly that I ever doubted him. You guys seem awfully nervous the closer the season gets.

 

Trent Edwards will make you look silly for doubting him. Does that make you feel better?

 

Of course we have faith in his abilities. I once had faith in JP's but that faith was tampered by the knowledge that, even in his 3rd year as a pro and his first full season as starter, he was in a "developmental" stage and he would have me pulling my hair out from time to time. But I was willing to accept that because that's the process with young QBs. As long as he was improving, not making the SAME mistakes over and over, and maturing into better a QB, I was willing to be patient. It's been like that ever since I can remember for any young QB the Bills have had.

 

However, one has to draw the line when they see clear signs of REGRESSION. This was patently obvious as early as the later stages of '06 and even more so in training camp last year. He got WORSE.

 

The very same thing could happen to Edwards. And that doesn't make me "nervous" at all. I'm looking forward to seeing how it turns out.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[1billsfan]

Your point? The one about how the QB MUST be able to get the ball into the endzone? That point? My God, I've finally seen the light! I NEVER knew that about football. Thanks for clearing that up for me.

 

Nobody is enamored with Edwards as you put it. It's just obvious he is light years ahead of where JP was at the same stage of their careers. He may end up sucking even worse in the long run. Many of us have readily stated that over and over and over again around here.

 

Yes he has flaws. Most QBs do. Especially young ones going into their first full season as a starter. The question is: do his strengths outweigh his drawbacks? At this point the resounding answer is yes. At least to those who aren't blinded by their refusal to see that the JP experiment is over.

 

If you judge his low TD percentage as a "flaw" in his game then I suggest you look at the history of rookie NFL QBs. Not first year starters, actual rookies. But first you will have to let go of the absurd theory that "throwing" TD passes is strictly a function of QB play.

 

GO BILLS!!!

 

 

Points, touchdowns. I don't want to hear anymore about his poise. I don't want to hear anymore about his giving a good interview. I want to see points and touchdowns this season. You guys are clearly nervous and it's starting to show. "He said Trent can't do what?!!!"

 

I love how you state that "Nobody is enamored with Edwards" and go right on to say his strengths outweigh his weaknesses resoundingly. Oh sure, but you're not enamored with him at all. Sorry, but I call not throwing touchdown passes a pretty big negative that needs correcting for Edwards. Every time I go and point out a flaw in Trent's game, they treat it like I spit in their face or something. It's pretty comical right now.

 

He's not a rookie anymore...we were told he's lightyears ahead of Losman at the same point in their careers...get over yourselves...get ready for either the props or slings and arrows in 2008. It's how we roll here.

[thebug]

Points, touchdowns. I don't want to hear anymore about his poise. I don't want to hear anymore about his giving a good interview. I want to see points and touchdowns this season. You guys are clearly nervous and it's starting to show. "He said Trent can't do what?!!!"

 

I love how you state that "Nobody is enamored with Edwards" and go right on to say his strengths outweigh his weaknesses resoundingly. Oh sure, but you're not enamored with him at all. Sorry, but I call not throwing touchdown passes a pretty big negative that needs correcting for Edwards. Every time I go and point out a flaw in Trent's game, they treat it like I spit in their face or something. It's pretty comical right now.

 

He's not a rookie anymore...we were told he's lightyears ahead of Losman at the same point in their careers...get over yourselves...get ready for either the props or slings and arrows in 2008. It's how we roll here.

 

 

Yah and then there are azzholes like who would love nothing better than to witness Edwards fail, just so you can bet right.

[K-9]

Points, touchdowns. I don't want to hear anymore about his poise. I don't want to hear anymore about his giving a good interview. I want to see points and touchdowns this season. You guys are clearly nervous and it's starting to show. "He said Trent can't do what?!!!"

 

I love how you state that "Nobody is enamored with Edwards" and go right on to say his strengths outweigh his weaknesses resoundingly. Oh sure, but you're not enamored with him at all. Sorry, but I call not throwing touchdown passes a pretty big negative that needs correcting for Edwards. Every time I go and point out a flaw in Trent's game, they treat it like I spit in their face or something. It's pretty comical right now.

 

He's not a rookie anymore...we were told he's lightyears ahead of Losman at the same point in their careers...get over yourselves...get ready for either the props or slings and arrows in 2008. It's how we roll here.

 

Clearly nervous and it's starting to show? WTF are you talking about? I think you're confusing me with somebody else. Either that or you just didn't read my post. At any rate, from the tone of your ramblings and constant need to put words in my mouth to support your position in the debate, it's clear to me that the nerves ARE clearly starting to show. Don't let 'em see you sweat, eh #1?

 

Quick question: can you PROVE that Trent's low TD % is his flaw alone? Can you support that absurd theory with evidence that he missed all sorts of wide open receivers for instance? Or that everyone, on EVERY play, executed his assignment perfectly with the exception of Edwards? I could go on and on, but you get the point. I think.

 

Your crusade is making you look like one of the least knowledgeable fans I've ever come across.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Sisyphean Bills]

Points, touchdowns. I don't want to hear anymore about his poise. I don't want to hear anymore about his giving a good interview. I want to see points and touchdowns this season.

The red zone is the money zone. If Trent Edwards is to emerge as a big-time, big-money, playoff team leading, NFL QB, he absolutely positively has to figure out how to get it done in the money zone.

Quick question: can you PROVE that Trent's low TD % is his flaw alone? Can you support that absurd theory with evidence that he missed all sorts of wide open receivers for instance? Or that everyone, on EVERY play, executed his assignment perfectly with the exception of Edwards? I could go on and on, but you get the point. I think.

Good point. Offensive success depends on more than just the QB doing his job correctly.

 

This brings to mind a QB named Doug Flutie, though. Flutie was a QB with some defects to his own game, who was not surrounded with superstars -- his OL was pretty bad actually, I lost count of how many times he wheeled around in the backfield running for his life in games. But, he often was able to wing it despite all the break downs and make things happen enough to move the sticks. With a stud defense, that was good enough to make the Bills a playoff team -- the last playoff team that we've enjoyed.

[Flbillsfan#1]

You really should change your name to 1JPFAN because it is obvious you are not a Bills fan.

Just because he believes in JP he is not a Bills Fan? :D