GG Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 In this case, the messenger is much more important than the message. Welfare reform was never going to happen unless it was led by a Democrat. That a liberal black Dem leader is saying things that have been obvious to most people for over a generation is important because of where the message is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 What? what what? The fact that on his father side he's a "new" american, that he can be seen by a group like the hispanics like a model, a reason to still believe in the american dream is important. Compared to the classic old establishment candidate he has much more appeal and in crucial states like Florida, those votes are very very important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 In this case, the messenger is much more important than the message. Welfare reform was never going to happen unless it was led by a Democrat. That a liberal black Dem leader is saying things that have been obvious to most people for over a generation is important because of where the message is coming from. So what you are saying is that we need an illegal alien to speak out for welfare reform in terms of providing them free medical care? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 what what? The fact that on his father side he's a "new" american, that he can be seen by a group like the hispanics like a model, a reason to still believe in the american dream is important. Compared to the classic old establishment candidate he has much more appeal and in crucial states like Florida, those votes are very very important. What, What What? He's not an immigrant. DOH!!! If he was he couldn't become/run for the presidency. DOH!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 So what you are saying is that we need an illegal alien to speak out for welfare reform in terms of providing them free medical care? No, what I'm saying is that welfare reform wasn't going to happen without Bill Clinton's endorsement. Future SS reform won't happen without a Dem in charge. Just like here, it appears to be more important to get credit for the idea than for actually getting it implemented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 What, What What?He's not an immigrant. DOH!!! If he was he couldn't become/run for the presidency. DOH!! Erynthered i wanted to ask you this question for a very long time: Are you really stupid or do play the stupid guy so that you can answer ad nauseam on any topic without taking any argument coming from somebody else into account? What i said is that Obama can be seen as "one of them" by all those first generation americans coming from recent waves of immigrations. Something that has not been the case in a presidential race for decades if not more than a century... I don't know if he'll have a majority behind him in november but i'm sure he will have been LISTENED by more americans than any other candidate in modern history because of his very peculiar background. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Erynthered i wanted to ask you this question for a very long time: Are you really stupid or do play the stupid guy so that you can answer ad nauseam on any topic without taking any argument coming from somebody else into account? What i said is that Obama can be seen as "one of them" by all those first generation americans coming from recent waves of immigrations. Something that has not been the case in a presidential race for decades if not more than a century... I don't know if he'll have a majority behind him in november but i'm sure he will have been LISTENED by more americans than any other candidate in modern history because of his very peculiar background. Having your short and long term memory loss today, again? You said this: Maybe simply because in politics the messenger is as important as the message... This is in fact the whole Obama story in fact: He's black and an immigrant and (in a sense) white. Most americans can see him as "one of them" and whatever he says is listened by more people than any other politician maybe in history... Do you see the BOLDED highlighted part there frenchy. Thats what you said. I only pointed out that you were wrong. Get a grip, dudette. HE'S NOT AN IMIGRANT!! HE WAS BORN AN AMERICAN CITIZEN!! Oh. And here's the link to your post moron: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1059932 BTW. "Americans" is supposed to be capitalised, retard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Having your short and long term memory loss today, again? You said this: Maybe simply because in politics the messenger is as important as the message... This is in fact the whole Obama story in fact: He's black and an immigrant and (in a sense) white. Most americans can see him as "one of them" and whatever he says is listened by more people than any other politician maybe in history... Do you see the BOLDED highlighted part there frenchy. Thats what you said. I only pointed out that you were wrong. Get a grip, dudette. HE'S NOT AN IMIGRANT!! HE WAS BORN AN AMERICAN CITIZEN!! Oh. And here's the link to your post moron: http://www.stadiumwall.com/index.php?s=&am...t&p=1059932 BTW. "Americans" is supposed to be capitalised, retard. Ok i have my answer you are really stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Ok i have my answer you are really stupid. Please answer this question, Olivier. He was born in Hawaii. How does that make him an imigrant? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 The big difference is that republicans have not and never will be listened by most african americans and whatever they may say have absolutly no impact in the black community. The fact that the biggest black leader in the Nation is telling that is new and very important and may have an impact. Did you watch the Weather Channel's special about how weather changed history... The party of Lincoln were the Republicans... Things flip-flopped between the Dems and Repubs during the 1920's... Back to weather... They mentioned how a lot of African Americans were driven away from the Republican party down south (remeber things were flip-flopping between the two) when certain Parishes were PURPOSELY flood areas to save New Orleans (Flood of 1927) and then failed to honor payments which were promised for the huge damage. Again... Back to trust... And many years of mistrust. Why should they have listened? Even almost 80 years later when Katrina hit... The mistrust was still there with the wild stories that abounded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Republicans have been saying what Obama said for years. What riles me is that the press is acting like this is brand new and lauding the Messiah for repeating what has been said for years and not mentioning Ward Connely, Niger Innis, Roy Innis, and others. You can't criticize the holy word of the Messiah. So you are faulting Obama for this speech? Or are you applauding him? What was wrong with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Maybe simply because in politics the messenger is as important as the message... This is in fact the whole Obama story in fact: He's black and an immigrant and (in a sense) white. Most americans can see him as "one of them" and whatever he says is listened by more people than any other politician maybe in history... I have to take your opinion a bit lightly here, olivier. You once posted how Sen. Robert Byrd impressed you as a great statesman or some such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 But why is this Oliver? While I don't disagree with your statement, the race baiting tactics of the Democrats are in part, what caused this to be. As noted by Wacka, this has been said for years. In case you don't know, Ward Connely is black, as are I believe the other people mentioned. Why is it that Obama (who I totally agree with) will be cast as a hero for saying these things while others were castigated for saying the same thing? It's because he's 'the Messiah' who can do no wrong. I know I joke about this, but seriously, it is a bit irritating when you consider the schitstorm it created when Cosby said it. I'm looking forward to see how The Messiah deals with Jackson and Sharpton. Will he hold them at bay or will he embrace them? You know that cockroach Jackson is going to want a taste or some visible 'respect' from The Messiah. It should be interesting to see how it plays out. I don't agree with race baiting... But, it was needed during a certain period. This is where Obama comes in when he made his 'A More Perfect Union' speech. Obama is the "gear shifter". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stuckincincy Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 So you are faulting Obama for this speech? Or are you applauding him? What was wrong with it? Are you shilling for the possibility of more Corps of Engineering funding, my friend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 An analogy here: Jackson and Sharpton are like the old "union" guys... There was a time and place when they were needed... Obama is the young thinker that is still "pro-union"... But, the need for the "union" is greatly diminished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Are you shilling for the possibility of more Corps of Engineering funding, my friend? This is shilling: Telling you what... We are not that vital here... But, if things aren't gonna happen monetarilywise and they keep neglecting some of the infrastructure to put out the big fires (recent flood)... We are all doomed. This recent flood, IMO, has pushed us here in Chicago back even further. Slap on the "fuzzy dice", save the oil change to later. You see the levees breaking more and more... At least two just went this year... The one saving grace is that none (I don't think any trhoughout the years) have been federally maintained directly. And people slack the gov't when they are directly in control... There are too many middle men (politcally and commercially) getting their cut. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD Jarhead Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 I don't agree with race baiting... But, it was needed during a certain period. This is where Obama comes in when he made his 'A More Perfect Union' speech. Obama is the "gear shifter". Race baiting was needed? It is a despicible tactic that panders to the lowest common denominator. It was used by the cockroaches mentioned above whose influence was courted by Democratic politicians. You may want to clarify... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Posted June 19, 2008 Share Posted June 19, 2008 Race baiting was needed? It is a despicible tactic that panders to the lowest common denominator. It was used by the cockroaches mentioned above whose influence was courted by Democratic politicians. You may want to clarify... The majority of people in this country ARE the lowest common denominator, thats the problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExiledInIllinois Posted June 19, 2008 Author Share Posted June 19, 2008 Race baiting was needed? It is a despicible tactic that panders to the lowest common denominator. It was used by the cockroaches mentioned above whose influence was courted by Democratic politicians. You may want to clarify... Just like unions (my analogy)... Think how times were in the first 60 years of the 20th Century. No quarter was given... So yes, by all means it was needed. Of course things have changed and that is where Obama comes in vs. the old methods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
olivier in france Posted June 20, 2008 Share Posted June 20, 2008 I have to take your opinion a bit lightly here, olivier. You once posted how Sen. Robert Byrd impressed you as a great statesman or some such. you have a long memory... if i remember well i was impressed not by the career of Sen Byrd but by one of his speech about Irak... and that speech has been proved to be even better since... but you're right he was not probably a good messenger for that speech at that time...; Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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