Toronto May See More Bills games in the Future

[zow2]

Wow, that article really lays it out there for a permanent home in Toronto someday. Even the Erie County Executive weighs in. I’m not 100% steadfast against more games in Toronto. As the article points out…would you rather have NO Buffalo Bills or a Bills club that splits the season where 4 games are played at the Ralph and 4 in Toronto? It’s really a stroke of genius by Ralph, Brandon, Rogers Communications, the NFL and city of Toronto. I mean they can effective start a “slow drip” move to another city that would squash the public relations nightmare of a full blown move. They are talking about a 4/4 split of games where the team remains the Buffalo Bills. I can easily see, however, that eventually it becomes a Milwaukee/Green Bay type situation. Remember back in the day when Milwaukee got 3 games while Green Bay kept 5? Eventually all the games were put back in Green Bay That will be Buffalo. After a few years when the fans really accept more Toronto games, the team will eventually get a windfall to be renamed the “Toronto Bills” or something more regionalized and the majority of the games will be played in TO not B-LO.

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=594813

[richNjoisy]

Wow, that article really lays it out there for a permanent home in Toronto someday. Even the Erie County Executive weighs in. I’m not 100% steadfast against more games in Toronto. As the article points out…would you rather have NO Buffalo Bills or a Bills club that splits the season where 4 games are played at the Ralph and 4 in Toronto? It’s really a stroke of genius by Ralph, Brandon, Rogers Communications, the NFL and city of Toronto. I mean they can effective start a “slow drip” move to another city that would squash the public relations nightmare of a full blown move. They are talking about a 4/4 split of games where the team remains the Buffalo Bills. I can easily see, however, that eventually it becomes a Milwaukee/Green Bay type situation. Remember back in the day when Milwaukee got 3 games while Green Bay kept 5? Eventually all the games were put back in Green Bay That will be Buffalo. After a few years when the fans really accept more Toronto games, the team will eventually get a windfall to be renamed the “Toronto Bills” or something more regionalized and the majority of the games will be played in TO not B-LO.

 

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=594813

 

 

You are, of course, entitled to your own opinion. What you and all the "sky-is-falling! Bills doomed to move to Toronto!" people out there seem to have is this continued inability to recognize that Buffalo fans will bend but once the "Buffalo" label leaves the Bills, the organization will lose almost all of its current fanbase. Not only that, these fans will (mostly) become non watchers of the NFL. I know I speak for the great majority of current Bills fans: We are BUFFALO Bills fans - in support of the team from BUFFALO. We cannot be traded, bought or sold to another city. In other words, a slow move out of town or a fast move is not going to change this. Move the Bills and you lose the Buffalo fan.

 

We miss ya, Tim. Go Bills!

 

-RnJ

[PromoTheRobot]

I have been making this prediction for months. (I'd link to an example but I think they were lost in the great board crash 2008) I've taken much grief from the ostriches for it as well. Buffalo's best bet to keep the Bills is a shared arrangement with Toronto.

 

Here's a quote from yesterday by Erie County Executive Chris Collins: "There's a lot of things in play," Collins said. "But a negotiation that keeps them known as the Buffalo Bills, with four or more games played here, I think, most people would consider a win." So our local leaders are already working this angle.

 

Please note the phrase "four or more" games. In the future, the NFL will play a 17 game schedule, 20 or 21 if you want to include pre-season. So Collins makes it sound like he's talking a 50-50 split, but really it could wind up being 66/33. Counting pre-season, a team will have 10 home dates and 1 neutral site game. If Buffalo gets its 4 (1-pre and 3-reg) that leaves 7 games in Toronto.

 

Be prepared that it could wind up that way. In fact the ONLY way it won't be a 100% move is with intervention from the NFL, Congress and/or the Canadian government. When the Bills are sold there will have to be a stipulation that some games stay in Buffalo, and maybe even the name "Buffalo Bills" sticks too. The Toronto Buffalo Bills may sound odd but that could be the name going forward.

 

PTR

[Ray]

I know people are afraid of this......but for the 100th time, the Bills are staying in Buffalo. They are NOT moving to Toronto. I know the fatalistic types will disagree....but people they are not going anywhere. 1st, does Toronto and its people have the will to finance a 1Billion dollar stadium? 2nd, is the whole country willing to have the dissolution of their beloved CFL? Face it, the Canadians hate more than anything to be more "Americanized." That is an enormous obstacle....that is why you have Senators in Canada writing bills to prevent the NFL from placing an NFL team in Toronto!!!! That's right! Toronto will have ENORMOUS problems getting money, Canadians etc to support a full blown move. Also, do most Canadians even want the NFL there??? It is an event now and they still are generating only lukewarm interest from the people they need the most. That's the high end tix. Not even 50% have been sold. That leads to the question...do the Canadians really have as much interest in an NFL team and the fan base to begin with? They only have to fill a 52k stadium. The Bills now have over 52k season ticket holders. So relax people, Buffalo is on the way up a bit and the Bills are staying.

The arrangement now is fine for the Bills and their fans.

[richNjoisy]

I know people are afraid of this......but for the 100th time, the Bills are staying in Buffalo. They are NOT moving to Toronto. I know the fatalistic types will disagree....but people they are not going anywhere. 1st, does Toronto and its people have the will to finance a 1Billion dollar stadium? 2nd, is the whole country willing to have the dissolution of their beloved CFL? Face it, the Canadians hate more than anything to be more "Americanized." That is an enormous obstacle....that is why you have Senators in Canada writing bills to prevent the NFL from placing an NFL team in Toronto!!!! That's right! Toronto will have ENORMOUS problems getting money, Canadians etc to support a full blown move. Also, do most Canadians even want the NFL there??? It is an event now and they still are generating only lukewarm interest from the people they need the most. That's the high end tix. Not even 50% have been sold. That leads to the question...do the Canadians really have as much interest in an NFL team and the fan base to begin with? They only have to fill a 52k stadium. The Bills now have over 52k season ticket holders. So relax people, Buffalo is on the way up a bit and the Bills are staying.

The arrangement now is fine for the Bills and their fans.

 

 

STOP spewing logic here you fool.

E.O.A.

(Emotions, only, allowed.)

[PromoTheRobot]

1st, does Toronto and its people have the will to finance a 1Billion dollar stadium?

This is a joke, right?

2nd, is the whole country willing to have the dissolution of their beloved CFL?

And yet NFL games are shown in Canada and get bigger ratings than the CFL.

that is why you have Senators in Canada writing bills to prevent the NFL from placing an NFL team in Toronto!!!!

Just yesterday the newspapers said that after the laughter died down this bill has as much chance of passing as Canada electing Celine Dion prime minister.

Also, do most Canadians even want the NFL there???

See my second point.

Do Canadians really have as much interest in an NFL team and the fan base to begin with? They only have to fill a 52k stadium.

Again, you're joking. 6+ Million pop and a 52K seat stadium? No fan base???

The Bills now have over 52k season ticket holders.

...paying an average ticket price of around $40 while Toronto people are paying $200 average

So relax people, Buffalo is on the way up a bit and the Bills are staying. The arrangement now is fine for the Bills and their fans.

And the Titanic couldn't sink. Meanwhile the Bills refuse to extend their lease with Erie County. A sure sign they are committed to staying. . A positive attitude is commendable but to not see the writing on the wall is just absurd. No one is going to pay $1B+ to keep the Bills in Buffalo!!!! NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!! The best we can hope for is shared custody. Ignore it. Deny it. Call me an alarmist. The train is still coming at you.

 

PTR

[C.Biscuit97]

This is a joke, right?

 

And yet NFL games are shown in Canada and get bigger ratings than the CFL.

 

Just yesterday the newspapers said that after the laughter died down this bill has as much chance of passing as Canada electing Celine Dion prime minister.

 

See my second point.

 

Again, you're joking. 6+ Million pop and a 52K seat stadium? No fan base???

 

...paying an average ticket price of around $40 while Toronto people are paying $200 average

 

And the Titanic couldn't sink. Meanwhile the Bills refuse to extend their lease with Erie County. A sure sign they are committed to staying. . A positive attitude is commendable but to not see the writing on the wall is just absurd. No one is going to pay $1B+ to keep the Bills in Buffalo!!!! NOT GOING TO HAPPEN!!!! The best we can hope for is shared custody. Ignore it. Deny it. Call me an alarmist. The train is still coming at you.

 

PTR

 

No offense, and unfortunately you may be right, but what's the point of posting this???

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

4 games in Toronto is a joke. Hell, I live in LA and that pisses me off.

 

The Bills sold out almost all their games last year, and are on a record pace for this year. Are they just looking for higher ticket revenues? I mean, we're no Jacksonville. Geez.

 

Is this part of Russ' master plan? Perhaps they should ask him about this when he's sitting in front of the grand jury. Oi.

[Ray]

PTR

I know you are in Boston and have now gotten the jaded NewEnglander view of things....but the Bills are NOT moving to TO......move back to Buffalo, and also talk with Toronto citizens....overall there is not a movement to have an NFL team. The dissolution of the CFL is a BIG thing to a lot of people. There is a huge amount disdain for even just one game up there from a lot of people in the Hamilton So Ontario area. Many of them prefer coming to Buffalo for the games!!!! I don't expect the bill to

pass barring an NFL team, however, it does underscore the point that many people are OPPOSED to a team there!!! 52k seat stadium will NOT support an NFL team. Rogers is not going to, nor does he have the cash for a 1B stadium so that means the Ontario taxpayers...MANY who are opposed to the thing from the start. Majority from Hamilton, So Ontario and Ottawa are opposed.

So realize the Bills are staying.....don't buy in to the whole thing. They are NOT moving. If this is SUCH the hottest ticket in Toronto's history then why have I been approached 3 times to buy premium seats? b/c I have club seats at The Ralph. Gee whiz they have filled 27k seats already.....are we supposed to be impressed by that! The actual buzz is that it is NOT as big a deal as they would like it.....and they misjudged how wonderful it was going to be.

Toronto will ALWAYS be a hockey town.......compare it to the interest of the Bruins in Boston compared to the Red Sox. That is about the level of curiosity and interest there.

[PromoTheRobot]

PTR

I know you are in Boston and have now gotten the jaded NewEnglander view of things....but the Bills are NOT moving to TO......move back to Buffalo, and also talk with Toronto citizens....overall there is not a movement to have an NFL team. The dissolution of the CFL is a BIG thing to a lot of people. There is a huge amount disdain for even just one game up there from a lot of people in the Hamilton So Ontario area. Many of them prefer coming to Buffalo for the games!!!! I don't expect the bill to

pass barring an NFL team, however, it does underscore the point that many people are OPPOSED to a team there!!! 52k seat stadium will NOT support an NFL team. Rogers is not going to, nor does he have the cash for a 1B stadium so that means the Ontario taxpayers...MANY who are opposed to the thing from the start. Majority from Hamilton, So Ontario and Ottawa are opposed.

So realize the Bills are staying.....don't buy in to the whole thing. They are NOT moving. If this is SUCH the hottest ticket in Toronto's history then why have I been approached 3 times to buy premium seats? b/c I have club seats at The Ralph. Gee whiz they have filled 27k seats already.....are we supposed to be impressed by that! The actual buzz is that it is NOT as big a deal as they would like it.....and they misjudged how wonderful it was going to be.

Toronto will ALWAYS be a hockey town.......compare it to the interest of the Bruins in Boston compared to the Red Sox. That is about the level of curiosity and interest there.

Ray, I live in NH not Boston, but that's a minor point. And no, living here has not jaded me. I'm still a Buffalo booster. But being a booster doesn't mean ignoring reality.

 

You make some points about Toronto, but you act like if we dodge the Toronto bullet the Bills stay. What about L.A.? Someone is already planning a new stadium and has stated he will buy an existing franchise. You also totally ignore the financial reality of WNY and the Bills. Ralph Wilson makes money in Buffalo because he owns the Bills free and clear. If there was a half-billion dollar mortgage on the team, like someone who may buy the team after Ralph passes on, there is no way they survive in WNY. Sold-out games mean nothing. It's corporate money, premium suites, and ancillary development (ala Cheatriot Place) are what drive the NFL.

 

I know you don't see it this way but sharing the Bills with Toronto is the only way to save, at least part, of the Buffalo Bills. You have convinced yourself the Bills can never leave. Good for you. I hope you're right.

 

PTR

[buffalobillsfootball]

Ray, I live in NH not Boston, but that's a minor point. And no, living here has not jaded me. I'm still a Buffalo booster. But being a booster doesn't mean ignoring reality.

 

You make some points about Toronto, but you act like if we dodge the Toronto bullet the Bills stay. What about L.A.? Someone is already planning a new stadium and has stated he will buy an existing franchise. You also totally ignore the financial reality of WNY and the Bills. Ralph Wilson makes money in Buffalo because he owns the Bills free and clear. If there was a half-billion dollar mortgage on the team, like someone who may buy the team after Ralph passes on, there is no way they survive in WNY. Sold-out games mean nothing. It's corporate money, premium suites, and ancillary development (ala Cheatriot Place) are what drive the NFL.

 

I know you don't see it this way but sharing the Bills with Toronto is the only way to save, at least part, of the Buffalo Bills. You have convinced yourself the Bills can never leave. Good for you. I hope you're right.

 

PTR

 

PTR: ...and you have convinced yourself there is no other solution but sharing 50% of our games. bull sh--.

 

Why would Ralph Wilson renegotiate a lease with 5 years remaining when he doesn't even know how many years he has left on this fine earth?

 

We know all this sucks - but man - every Bills message board I visit, including the stadium wall - PTR chimes in like a broken record.

[Ray]

PTR

I am not one of the people that hates the Bills playing a game in Toronto etc....I happen to think it is a good idea to regionalize things better, help the Bills make an extra buck or two or 10M. But I am just sick of the doomsdayers and how the Bills are gone etc...after Ralph passes.

I am very aware of the fact we have no debt service on the stadium or team and that helps immensely. But Ralph always crying poor and how we cannot compete etc is also somewhat misleading. He makes a good 30M profit on the team. The TV money pays for the salaries of the players outright. Then the other revenues pay the extras and coaches etc...I am well aware that having 25M in interest payments a year really cuts into a new owner having the team. But to then say TO or LA (which has already failed TWICE supporting an NFL team) deserves or will take the Bills I think is very unlikely. Most markets are NOT NYC or DC/Dallas. Baltimore, Minneapolis, Cleveland, NO, Cinci, Jacksonville, Miami, Tampa, Tennessee, KC, Pittsburgh, etc.....are all very similar to B'lo. This market can and will support the Bills at a profit. When push comes to shove, moving this franchise will have enormous obstacles to overcome. Things in WNY could be better but combine Buffalo/Rochester/So Ontario (not including Toronto) and you have 3+ million people to support the team. Plus you have NYS that is NOT going to let this go......NO politician wants to be on the clock if the Bills move.

Hey, I agree with you that it will be virtually impossible to get a new stadium etc given the debt service in addition to a new owner......but we will all probably live with that!

As a Bills fan who used to live in Boston I know all the rumbles heard elsewhere and how Buffalo is such a dying town etc......but there a quite a few connected and wealthy people around here that will not let this beloved team leave. Expect the Bills to stay......I went through this with the Flutie years too. I do wish Ralph would make pre-arrangements to ensure and calm the people here that the franchise will stay. I do think his words and actions fan the flames.......and remember, the Ontario media has said an NHL team is coming to Hamilton for th past 25 years!!!! I have yet to see it happen, and they would much rather have that then an NFL team.

[zow2]

I’m not going to sit here and type for 20 minutes about how the Bills will NEVER relocate to Toronto. All I know is fact: The Bills will be playing 5 games in Toronto over the next 5 years (they can continue to market it as “8” games but clearly no one in Buffalo or Canada really gives a crap about those preseason games). Anyway, the bottom line is that I will be happy if this deal remains the same and never changes. Keep calling them the BUFFALO Bills and play your one damn game a year in TO. I doubt they will ever abandon the TO market completely unless Buffalo pulls an Indianapolis and build a grandiose new stadium. My fear, and I agree with PTR on this is that they will start to funnel more games to Canada and we will be fed the line….”we’re still giving the great fans of Buffalo 3 or 4 games (or whatever) so be happy you still have some NFL football in your decrepit town”. Yes, we have people like Golisano and Bob Rich but they may never be given the opportunity to buy the team and play all games in Buffalo.

[TSNBDSC]

I know people are afraid of this......but for the 100th time, the Bills are staying in Buffalo. They are NOT moving to Toronto. I know the fatalistic types will disagree....but people they are not going anywhere. 1st, does Toronto and its people have the will to finance a 1Billion dollar stadium? 2nd, is the whole country willing to have the dissolution of their beloved CFL? Face it, the Canadians hate more than anything to be more "Americanized." That is an enormous obstacle....that is why you have Senators in Canada writing bills to prevent the NFL from placing an NFL team in Toronto!!!! That's right! Toronto will have ENORMOUS problems getting money, Canadians etc to support a full blown move. Also, do most Canadians even want the NFL there??? It is an event now and they still are generating only lukewarm interest from the people they need the most. That's the high end tix. Not even 50% have been sold. That leads to the question...do the Canadians really have as much interest in an NFL team and the fan base to begin with? They only have to fill a 52k stadium. The Bills now have over 52k season ticket holders. So relax people, Buffalo is on the way up a bit and the Bills are staying.

The arrangement now is fine for the Bills and their fans.

 

... ding ! ... thank you Ray ...

[Gordio]

Ray, I live in NH not Boston, but that's a minor point. And no, living here has not jaded me. I'm still a Buffalo booster. But being a booster doesn't mean ignoring reality.

 

You make some points about Toronto, but you act like if we dodge the Toronto bullet the Bills stay. What about L.A.? Someone is already planning a new stadium and has stated he will buy an existing franchise. You also totally ignore the financial reality of WNY and the Bills. Ralph Wilson makes money in Buffalo because he owns the Bills free and clear. If there was a half-billion dollar mortgage on the team, like someone who may buy the team after Ralph passes on, there is no way they survive in WNY. Sold-out games mean nothing. It's corporate money, premium suites, and ancillary development (ala Cheatriot Place) are what drive the NFL.

 

I know you don't see it this way but sharing the Bills with Toronto is the only way to save, at least part, of the Buffalo Bills. You have convinced yourself the Bills can never leave. Good for you. I hope you're right.

 

PTR

 

 

You do make some solid points & there is reason for concern, but I really think there is still a market out there to increase the ticket prices dramatically. I really think the bills could bump up ticket prices $15 to $20 a piece across the board per game & people will still buy them around here. Do that, I bet that would put right around the league average or even above it.

[seq004]

I know people are afraid of this......but for the 100th time, the Bills are staying in Buffalo. They are NOT moving to Toronto. I know the fatalistic types will disagree....but people they are not going anywhere. 1st, does Toronto and its people have the will to finance a 1Billion dollar stadium? 2nd, is the whole country willing to have the dissolution of their beloved CFL? Face it, the Canadians hate more than anything to be more "Americanized." That is an enormous obstacle....that is why you have Senators in Canada writing bills to prevent the NFL from placing an NFL team in Toronto!!!! That's right! Toronto will have ENORMOUS problems getting money, Canadians etc to support a full blown move. Also, do most Canadians even want the NFL there??? It is an event now and they still are generating only lukewarm interest from the people they need the most. That's the high end tix. Not even 50% have been sold. That leads to the question...do the Canadians really have as much interest in an NFL team and the fan base to begin with? They only have to fill a 52k stadium. The Bills now have over 52k season ticket holders. So relax people, Buffalo is on the way up a bit and the Bills are staying.

The arrangement now is fine for the Bills and their fans.

Well said!

[\GoBillsInDallas/]

http://cache.deadspin.com/assets/images/de...ls_3rd_logo.jpg

 

[Lv-Bills]

4 games in Toronto is a joke. Hell, I live in LA and that pisses me off.

 

The Bills sold out almost all their games last year, and are on a record pace for this year. Are they just looking for higher ticket revenues? I mean, we're no Jacksonville. Geez.

 

Is this part of Russ' master plan? Perhaps they should ask him about this when he's sitting in front of the grand jury. Oi.

I know, I agree. I live in VA and it pisses me off. And I have season tickets and make most games. If the Bills sell off 4 games, I will not renew. I'm not rooting for a damn team that plays in Toronto. Then what, make the playoffs, and play those games there too? What a joke.

 

The thing that pisses me off the most is the defeatist attitude up there from most of the politicians and people in charge. I mean, they are just OK with letting games go out of their back yard and to another country even. Have some fuggin pride AND DO SOMETHING in your own city for god's sakes.

 

I mean, get some god damn pride and make some changes and some noise to keep this last thing that will remotely keep Buffalo on the US map.....the Bills. Hell, go down fighting instead of rationalizing why they are in the process of leaving.

 

I don't know, just venting, but jesus, the policians up there are just running the place into the ground, and seems like they are trying NOTHING to change it.

 

UGH!

 

It's like giving your hot girlfriend to your best friend a few times a year to "enjoy". Gimmie a break!

[Lv-Bills]

You do make some solid points & there is reason for concern, but I really think there is still a market out there to increase the ticket prices dramatically. I really think the bills could bump up ticket prices $15 to $20 a piece across the board per game & people will still buy them around here. Do that, I bet that would put right around the league average or even above it.

I also agree with this. It should at least be tried before a move is considered. This, along with ONE game a year would be OK, but still tough to swallow that TOR game IMO. I would renew my seasons if they upped them 15-20 per game. We all know it's a bargain now. Most people would renew.

[Dr. Fong]

Buffalo Bills of Niagara. Problem solved.