Scouts Inc. Fantasy O-Line rankings

[Bill from NYC]

FWIW, I am not one that "just wants Jauron gone" and understand that if he leaves it would be another setback in what is becoming a long era of major setbacks for the Buffalo Bills. I'd much prefer that he abruptly blossoms into this genius coach many believe in/are hopeful for and that he takes the Bills over the hump to dynasty status. But he has no track record of doing so. It's good to be optimistic, but not to the point of kidding oneself.

 

This paragraph is a perfect, complete summary of how I feel about Jauron. People forget that he was a coach who nobody wanted, that was hired by a GM who nobody wanted.

I suppose that both of us would be better off as starry eyed believers, but I look at the 06 and 08 drafts, and I just can't do it. Still, we can cling to the straws of hope that things will work out well for us and that WNY will get the winner that it, and all Bills Fans deserve.

If the day 1 draftees from 07 are as good as I think they are, we do have a playoff shot. At this point, a playoff berth would make me pretty freaking happy.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[1billsfan]

This paragraph is a perfect, complete summary of how I feel about Jauron. People forget that he was a coach who nobody wanted, that was hired by a GM who nobody wanted.

I suppose that both of us would be better off as starry eyed believers, but I look at the 06 and 08 drafts, and I just can't do it. Still, we can cling to the straws of hope that things will work out well for us and that WNY will get the winner that it, and all Bills Fans deserve.

If the day 1 draftees from 07 are as good as I think they are, we do have a playoff shot. At this point, a playoff berth would make me pretty freaking happy.

 

GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

You and SB are right on the money. This is the "crossroads" year for Jauron and the Bills. This is the year this team either looks and plays like a winner or things hopefully will and should change. If this team plays like it did those last three games in 07 going down the stretch, and yet another losing season, how could it be possible to truly still believe in a coach with seven of eight losing seasons under his belt. To believe otherwise would be some serious denial. I think he's a lousy coach, hope I'm wrong, hope he marches this team back to the glory days.

[krazykat]

You and SB are right on the money. This is the "crossroads" year for Jauron and the Bills. This is the year this team either looks and plays like a winner or things hopefully will and should change. If this team plays like it did those last three games in 07 going down the stretch, and yet another losing season, how could it be possible to truly still believe in a coach with seven of eight losing seasons under his belt. To believe otherwise would be some serious denial. I think he's a lousy coach, hope I'm wrong, hope he marches this team back to the glory days.

Some very fair assessments.

[obie_wan]

You and SB are right on the money. This is the "crossroads" year for Jauron and the Bills. This is the year this team either looks and plays like a winner or things hopefully will and should change. If this team plays like it did those last three games in 07 going down the stretch how could it be possible to truly still believe in a coach with seven of eight losing seasons under his belt. To believe otherwise would be some serious denial. I think he's a lousy coach, hope I'm wrong, hope he marches this team back to the glory days.

 

More important than Jauron are his cooridnators.

 

Fewell has shown to be flexible and not absolutely married to a strict cover-2.

He should produce as long as the DT and LB plays to expectations -Straud needs to stay on the field.

 

The big question is whether the Turk will be strong enough to run a balanced offense and not get hamstrung by Jauron.

 

Jauron may set the tone, but he sure let Fairchild run his own show last year.

[VOR]

I think it's obvious that if the Bills don't make the playoffs this year, Jauron's 3rd with the team, he's gone. That's hardly breaking news or keen insight.

[eball]

More important than Jauron are his cooridnators.

 

Fewell has shown to be flexible and not absolutely married to a strict cover-2.

He should produce as long as the DT and LB plays to expectations -Straud needs to stay on the field.

 

The big question is whether the Turk will be strong enough to run a balanced offense and not get hamstrung by Jauron.

 

Jauron may set the tone, but he sure let Fairchild run his own show last year.

Is this Bizarro Saturday? Two posts of yours in a row I agree with?

 

For those who keep harping upon Jauron's "eight losing seasons" and call him a "coach nobody wanted" I ask you this -- how many teams wanted Marv Levy in 1986? Sometimes the right circumstances need to fall into place. Jauron's work in Buffalo for the past two seasons has earned him the right to be given the benefit of the doubt in 2008.

[obie_wan]

Is this Bizarro Saturday? Two posts of yours in a row I agree with?

 

For those who keep harping upon Jauron's "eight losing seasons" and call him a "coach nobody wanted" I ask you this -- how many teams wanted Marv Levy in 1986? Sometimes the right circumstances need to fall into place. Jauron's work in Buffalo for the past two seasons has earned him the right to be given the benefit of the doubt in 2008.

 

As like Marv,Jauron is a very good motivator. Even with all the injuries last year, the team showed up every week.

 

Also like Marv, he is must too loyal and trusting of his coordinators. This works great if the OC and DC are producing. But he should have mandated that Fairchild change his playcalling or take the duties away last year after Fairchild proved inept.

 

If Marv had fired Walt Corey, the Bills would have won a SuperBowl or 2.

[ax4782]

Does Schonert suck at OC?

 

The correct answer is that we don't know. None of us does. What are the odds though that an OC that is a first time OC is a good one?

 

And do we have a new head coach this year?

 

I would imagine that if they had listened to most fans they would be further along than they are now.

 

No, we don't know whether or not he WILL IN FACT be a good OC. However, having actually read the articles where Schonert has talked about the scheme he is trying to implement, it sounds to me like he is going to be much better than SF. See, SF, if you recall, ran the Run-Run-Pass offense that was unbelievably predictable. We also only threw the ball 39% of the time IIRC. That tends to be a recipe for mediocrity.

 

I think the odds of Schonert succeeding are very good. Schonert was the back up QB in Cincinnati during the Wyche years when their offense was a juggernaut in the mid and late 80's. He was a master of the system and has been in contact with Wyche concerning how to better implement the system. He was a former QB and understands the game far better than SF. The changes he has suggested and has begun to implement DIRECTLY address the problems this team had on offense last year.

 

No there will not be a new head coach at the end of the season, and I personally am sick and tired of trying to explain why most of the fans who want a new coach are asking for disaster. The coaching carousel we have had in this town is responsible for more of our problems than people realize. Instability in the FO and with the coach are serious problems.

 

To address some of your other facially neutral and inherently pessimistic "questions," yes I do think that the O will be better, for a couple of reasons.

 

First, your doom and gloom "statistics" are completely wrong, and it is not up to the person challenging your statments to find proof that you are wrong. It's up to you to show why you are right. Basic discussion 101. However, I'll make your day.

 

Buffalo had the fifth highest rated Running Back in the NFL with ML having an 1100+ yard season. Fred Jackson didn't do to badly either for a backup. This is one of the better areas on the team and I do expect that it will improve this year. Also, we DO NOT have the same fullback as last year. Schonert EXPLICITLY stated that he WILL NOT USE THE H-Back this year. Buffalo will likely use either Darian Barnes, who is primarily a run blocker, or rookie Mike Viti at the FB position, who is a very good run blocker (some scouts had him rated higher than even Owen Schmidt) and also has decent hands out of the back field. Further, the O-Line about which you have been so quick to criticize, gave up the fewest sacks in franchise history last year, and was in the top seven in the league in that category. Further, with the addition of two tall and athletic wide receivers and a commitment to using a higher yield pass offense along with a faster tempo, should help the O get going next year.

 

I do think that the O will score more points. With LE being the focus of the passing game last year, it was easy for teams to shut us down. We had no legitimate passing targets in the redzone and it was easy for teams to then expect for us to run. I think that Hardy, who is very quick for a guy who is 6'6" tall, will cause serious mismatches on D. He doesn't have to catch 70 passes next year to be effective. He needs to catch 45 or 50. His asset to the team is in the red zone. With he and Steve Johnson, who is apparently very good and may get some time this year based on his camp performance, provide much needed height in the red zone. This allows Evans and Reed to more effectively run routes and shed CBs. I think TE will be better this year after having a year to learn the system and get familiar with the offense.

 

If nothing had ACTUALLY changed in the offseason, I would tend to agree that we would be in trouble, but things did change. We got a new OC who actually sounds like he might know what he is doing. Jauron has said that he will not allow such a conservative offense and that they have to open it up more. I believe they will do that. Also, the D is much improved and will keep us close in every game. We have a much more favorable schedule. We had the most difficult schedule last year in the NFL. This year we are in the middle tier. That should look favorably in the W column. I do think that Buffalo could win 9, 10, possibly 11 games this year. If the D is as good as I think they will be, and the O can score seven more points a game, that will be enough to win ten games.

 

Lastly, your TD argument about TE is BS. Trent had seven TD passes in ten games. I know that three of them were in one games, however, that is really a bad argument for two reasons. First, that assumes that NOTHING changes in the way he does things as a signal caller, that he makes NO improvement at all as a QB and that the offense is exactly the same as it was last year. All of those things are clearly not going to happen. Sorry that Loss-man isn't the QB anymore, but you need to get over it. Thus, while you "questions" were not necessarily negative, it was the way you presented them that suggested you are one of those Negative Nancy kind of fans who loves nothing more than to complain in their sarcastic way and just generally makes the rest of the hopeful people feel like sh-t. Your questions are appreciated, your underlying pessimism and disdain could be done without.

[ax4782]

Is this Bizarro Saturday? Two posts of yours in a row I agree with?

 

For those who keep harping upon Jauron's "eight losing seasons" and call him a "coach nobody wanted" I ask you this -- how many teams wanted Marv Levy in 1986? Sometimes the right circumstances need to fall into place. Jauron's work in Buffalo for the past two seasons has earned him the right to be given the benefit of the doubt in 2008.

 

I completely agree with you. If the majority of the Jauron-Haters on this board had been Patriots fans, Bill Belicheat would have never had a job in NE. People need to get over the fact that the coach they wanted didn't get picked and move on. Same thing goes for people whose QB choice isn't the starter.

[BuffOrange]

It's a below average run blocking unit, and an above average pass blocking unit. That ranking is fair (I'd have them more toward 13 or 15 but it's not outlandish to put them at 21)...they could be judged anywhere in the middle of the pack of NFL teams in terms of their line and I think it would be reasonable.

 

I think many, many years of attrocious line play has conditioned us to think that the line is better than it is. It's solid now...it was terrible before. It's still not top 10 in the league. They need A LOT more from Dockery in the run game.

 

I think this is a fair assessment. The run/pass blocking discrepancy is hard to believe given their massive size, but I don't know how anyone can watch last season and come to any other conclusion.

 

I was astonished at how well the OL held up in Blitzburgh the 2nd week of the season - and yet the offense failed miserably to get anything done (while the defense executed their "give up 1,000 yards and make a stop in the redzone" strategy to perfection). IMO that game was a microcosm of the season as well as a big reason why Losman never got his job back after injury - there was simply no excuse for the offense to suck that bad. When Edwards came in he surprised most of us by not sucking more than JP since he was rookie, but that doesn't necessarily mean we got anything approaching average production out of the position. I refer back to my draft day thoughts it's the QB stupid.

 

As for how the Dolphins scored more points than us, I don't know. In a short 16 game season, variance can be plentiful though: off the top of my head - there was an overtime TD in their lone win, a shootout vs. the defenseless Browns in good weather, a couple late garbage-time scores against the Jets by Ronnie Brown (who looked like Walter Peyton before getting hurt)....

[Sisyphean Bills]

More important than Jauron are his cooridnators.

 

Fewell has shown to be flexible and not absolutely married to a strict cover-2.

He should produce as long as the DT and LB plays to expectations -Straud needs to stay on the field.

Jauron is a defensive coach (defensive backs) as well. They spent most of the draft picks and big ticket free agent moves this off-season to re-build the defense.

 

To summarize the 07 defense, I'd agree that Fewell did a good job with the bad hand he was dealt. The defense came into the season with plenty of inexperience and talent holes and immediate went into the ditch with injuries. I'm hopeful that with a full compliment of players that stay healthy, he'll be able to turn a unit that couldn't stop anybody into a capable defense. Just stepping the D up to "average" would be a huge turnaround.

The big question is whether the Turk will be strong enough to run a balanced offense and not get hamstrung by Jauron.

I've seen others post on this as well, but Turk is a question mark. Jauron has had a dismal record in hiring offensive coordinators, to be honest. Schonert was a jounreyman QB and has been a journeyman QB coach who has skipped like a stone across the pond of the NFL; but, who knows? Hopefully, this time it's charmed. Schonert hasn't been given an major influx of talent as help either. There is Hardy and ...? (Are people serious that Barnes and/or Viti are difference makers?) And now the Lynch legal trouble.

 

I wonder about all the blame being laid at the feet of Fairchild. I believe a lot of that is deserved, btw. On the other hand, trying to look at it from his perspective: he was given a new offensive line with players that had never played a meaningful down together before, the veteran QB regressed, he had to break in a rookie backfield with both Lynch and Edwards, and the system he wanted to run was a pass-first system that required perfect timing and big-time speed on the outside -- again with a rookie QB and some small, average WRs. A-Train was no Marshall Faulk. I wonder how much Losman's failure, Peerless's injury, and the lack of experience at RB influenced Fairchild.

[San-O]

Edwards was horrible last year. In most of his games he didn't even throw one TD and the team scored very few TDs with him in there.

 

Granted, it's tough to be worse than Fairchild, but when he got here everyone had the same hopes that they have for Schonert, and honestly, I don't see too much of a difference in the credentials or prior experience of either.

 

You may "think that Schouman will open a lot of eyes," but the fact is that he didn't last year, so you're thinking that is hardly concrete promise.

 

As to Hardy, what speed? He's not known as a speed player. In fact it's the opposite. He's known as a slow receiver that's big and can catch OTM in traffic and has good hands although the reports out OTAs were that he was dropping a lot of passes. The knock on him is that he won't be able to separate from DBs in the NFL, is not a great route runner, won't be a threat in the deep game, and despite his size isn't very physical.

 

 

Don't you mean Losman was horrible last year? That's why Edwards got the start.

[San-O]

I don't think Jauron will be fired anytime soon. Wilson is smarter than those who want DJ gone

 

 

Wilson isn't firing anyone. As long as tickets are selling, and the team is around .500, he'll be fine.

[San-O]

I think it's obvious that if the Bills don't make the playoffs this year, Jauron's 3rd with the team, he's gone. That's hardly breaking news or keen insight.

 

 

I think maybe not, not that I wouldn't want a change. The coaching staff will be able to get 1/2 a bye this

year with a first time starting 2nd year QB, a first time OC, and a rookie WR.

[VOR]

I think maybe not, not that I wouldn't want a change. The coaching staff will be able to get 1/2 a bye this

year with a first time starting 2nd year QB, a first time OC, and a rookie WR.

I disagree. Trent isn't a rookie and it's time to start performing, so that's not an excuse. A rookie WR who isn't the #1 also isn't an excuse. Maybe Schonert could be considered a valid excuse, but since it's the same terminology, I'd say not really.

[eball]

I wonder about all the blame being laid at the feet of Fairchild. I believe a lot of that is deserved, btw. On the other hand, trying to look at it from his perspective: he was given a new offensive line with players that had never played a meaningful down together before, the veteran QB regressed, he had to break in a rookie backfield with both Lynch and Edwards, and the system he wanted to run was a pass-first system that required perfect timing and big-time speed on the outside -- again with a rookie QB and some small, average WRs. A-Train was no Marshall Faulk. I wonder how much Losman's failure, Peerless's injury, and the lack of experience at RB influenced Fairchild.

What do you make of comments from the offensive players that the plays they practiced during the week were not implemented on Sunday? I'm sorry, I can't produce a link, but I definitely remember several of the Bills expressing disappointment that what they worked on in practice was not used during the games.

[Sisyphean Bills]

What do you make of comments from the offensive players that the plays they practiced during the week were not implemented on Sunday? I'm sorry, I can't produce a link, but I definitely remember several of the Bills expressing disappointment that what they worked on in practice was not used during the games.

 

Like I said initially, "I believe a lot of that is deserved, btw." I don't think Fairchild was all that good an OC by any stretch. The offense was just horrible last year and he deserves criticism for that. I guess I am just wondering out loud if it was all Steve Fairchild's idea or not to put scoring points on the shelf to simply focus on minimizing turnovers and mistakes.

 

As to your reference, yes, I remember reading that. Frankly, it is odd -- like a 3 headed purple squirrel. There are several hypothesis that could be put forward. I do recall reading similar quotes about Mike Martz' practices -- that lots of plays were practiced that never saw the light of game day. So, maybe Fairchild was just taking a page out of his mentor's book? Another explanation might be that Fairchild was not the problem, that he wanted to open things up and led his practices and preparation leaning that way, but was instead forced to revise his game plans to be more conservative. Schonert made some comments public around the time of his hiring that it might just be that Fairchild decided on game days to simply throw all his weight on the brakes and try to win the race by sliding. Whatever was truly going on, the offense was big time dysfunctional. Worst Bills offense statistically in their entire history. That's pretty damn horrible.

[eball]

Like I said initially, "I believe a lot of that is deserved, btw." I don't think Fairchild was all that good an OC by any stretch. The offense was just horrible last year and he deserves criticism for that. I guess I am just wondering out loud if it was all Steve Fairchild's idea or not to put scoring points on the shelf to simply focus on minimizing turnovers and mistakes.

 

As to your reference, yes, I remember reading that. Frankly, it is odd -- like a 3 headed purple squirrel. There are several hypothesis that could be put forward. I do recall reading similar quotes about Mike Martz' practices -- that lots of plays were practiced that never saw the light of game day. So, maybe Fairchild was just taking a page out of his mentor's book? Another explanation might be that Fairchild was not the problem, that he wanted to open things up and led his practices and preparation leaning that way, but was instead forced to revise his game plans to be more conservative. Schonert made some comments public around the time of his hiring that it might just be that Fairchild decided on game days to simply throw all his weight on the brakes and try to win the race by sliding. Whatever was truly going on, the offense was big time dysfunctional. Worst Bills offense statistically in their entire history. That's pretty damn horrible.

Right. And to be clear, my intention was not to challenge you. I was interested in your take on the comments by offensive players. I'm very much hoping Turk will finally be the OC Jauron "gets right."

[Wagon Circler]

Steve Fairchild and Dick Jauron. I'll accept cash or check.

Jauron sounds ready to open it up this season.

[Wagon Circler]

Jauron is a defensive coach (defensive backs) as well. They spent most of the draft picks and big ticket free agent moves this off-season to re-build the defense.

 

To summarize the 07 defense, I'd agree that Fewell did a good job with the bad hand he was dealt. The defense came into the season with plenty of inexperience and talent holes and immediate went into the ditch with injuries. I'm hopeful that with a full compliment of players that stay healthy, he'll be able to turn a unit that couldn't stop anybody into a capable defense. Just stepping the D up to "average" would be a huge turnaround.

 

I've seen others post on this as well, but Turk is a question mark. Jauron has had a dismal record in hiring offensive coordinators, to be honest. Schonert was a jounreyman QB and has been a journeyman QB coach who has skipped like a stone across the pond of the NFL; but, who knows? Hopefully, this time it's charmed. Schonert hasn't been given an major influx of talent as help either. There is Hardy and ...? (Are people serious that Barnes and/or Viti are difference makers?) And now the Lynch legal trouble.

 

I wonder about all the blame being laid at the feet of Fairchild. I believe a lot of that is deserved, btw. On the other hand, trying to look at it from his perspective: he was given a new offensive line with players that had never played a meaningful down together before, the veteran QB regressed, he had to break in a rookie backfield with both Lynch and Edwards, and the system he wanted to run was a pass-first system that required perfect timing and big-time speed on the outside -- again with a rookie QB and some small, average WRs. A-Train was no Marshall Faulk. I wonder how much Losman's failure, Peerless's injury, and the lack of experience at RB influenced Fairchild.

Fairchild sucked. His playcalling cost us games last year;Denver and Dallas to name 2