Scouts Inc. Fantasy O-Line rankings

[Sisyphean Bills]

If that's true, then I'm surprised the offense wasn't almost as bad in 2006 as last year. And it's no wonder the Bills have struggled under Fairchild. You must be able to audible out of a bad play.

I don't think it is quite that simple. This is the pros. A single play called almost beyond a doubt has variations as part of the play depending on the defensive reads. In the passing game, the QB is expected to make a progression of reads, the WRs are expected to make coverage reads, the OL is expected to adjust based on its pre-snap reads...

 

Being able to execute properly the play that was called is more important than switching the play. Executed properly, the "wrong" play might not be a homerun, but it shouldn't be a cluster either.

He's a defensive guy. I was fine with him leaving the offense to his OC, provided the OC knows what he is doing.

Does Turk know what he is doing?

It wouldn't surprise me to learn that Fairchild blamed a lot of his problems on a rookie QB.

I have no idea. I'd like to think that if he is carting the lion's share of the blame for the offense that he had the lion's share of decision making as to who played, the game plan, etc. But, there are ever present rumors that Ralph Wilson meddles with QB decisions and so forth -- who knows?

 

On the point though, it might be worth considering that Edwards really was not truly ready to go into an offense that is built around timing and throwing to windows, as we know the Coryell/Martz system is. He may be a quick study, but he hadn't played with the Bills receivers before and had no NFL experience, or experience in the system. On top of that, the line had never played together before, which no doubt had its own consequences. I tend to think that the Bills watered the O down significantly last year. Martz in running this offense has a history of not placing a huge emphasis on protecting his QB and prefers his QB to push the ball down the field rather than going to max-pro.

 

At any rate, it will be damn interesting to see what Schonert actually does.

[krazykat]

At any rate, it will be damn interesting to see what Schonert actually does.

Yeah, it sure will be. I'm not even sure he knows now. I'm gonna guess that his offense is a work in progress.

 

It would be unusual for a new OC to come in and completely rewrite the offensive playbook if he even had the experience to do that. Otherwise, it's all going to come down to execution mano-a-mano. We weren't good at it last year, so why we will be good at it this year is unknown at this point. Hardy will help but only moderately and only if he does something.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Yeah, it sure will be. I'm not even sure he knows now. I'm gonna guess that his offense is a work in progress.

 

It would be unusual for a new OC to come in and completely rewrite the offensive playbook if he even had the experience to do that. Otherwise, it's all going to come down to execution mano-a-mano. We weren't good at it last year, so why we will be good at it this year is unknown at this point. Hardy will help but only moderately and only if he does something.

The problem though is Jauron being a delegator, which is usually pushed as a strength of his coaching ability. If Schonert is out of his depth, who is going to come in and help him? Or does he just become a sacrifice for saving the rest of the staff?

 

For example, I don't see that just adding an audible system into a group that couldn't execute a dumbed down offense productively as a major difference maker.

 

I hope Turk's doing much more than that...

[VOR]

You enjoy digging holes, don't ya.

 

I think you overestimate many things about this team.

 

It's not Evans' getting open downfield that I don't think will occur, he was open last year at times when Edwards simply didn't see him or was able to deliver. Doesn't have to be 50 times to prove problematic, it only takes a half dozen to suggest issues there and there were at least that. Throw in some to other receivers too and it merely compounds the problem.

 

I have no faith in Edwards or the OL. Why should I, if either had done their job to even slightly below average standards last season we wouldn't have had the worst offense in the league under Edwards and one of the worst if not the worst one in Bills franchise history as well.

 

Hardy will command a one-on-one just like whomever else lined up at WR in whatever spot he assumes did last season until he can prove something in this league. You already talk about him as if it's a given that he's a shoe-in for success. The odds are strongly against it, for any WR, not just Hardy. But that doesn't seem to factor into your assessment.

 

In other words, the chances are greater that he amounts to nothing than they are that he even puts up a 500/5 season.

 

So until he does, which is all that several of us are saying, it hasn't happened and the offense isn't any different otherwise. So the offense will essentially only take a leap if Hardy explodes, the chances of which are remote.

So let me see if I have this correct. I believe the Bills' offense will improve and I'm "digging a hole for myself," whereas you believe it won't get better, if not get worse, and this is completely correct thinking, right?

 

While on the other hand, you know the Jets and Fins will improve "more than" the Bills? Do you see the flaws inherent in this "logic?" What am I saying, of course you don't!

 

So what can we say for sure? That every team will remain the same? That we'll have to wait and see? Because if it's the latter, the only one "digging himself a hole" is the one who thinks that what he believes is right, without any proof.

 

But I believe I can reasonably say that the Bills' offense will be better this year than last year. Even if slightly. I can also say the same for the defense. Whether that's means they'll make the playoffs though remains to be seen.

[Adam]

You enjoy digging holes, don't ya.

 

I think you overestimate many things about this team.

 

It's not Evans' getting open downfield that I don't think will occur, he was open last year at times when Edwards simply didn't see him or was able to deliver. Doesn't have to be 50 times to prove problematic, it only takes a half dozen to suggest issues there and there were at least that. Throw in some to other receivers too and it merely compounds the problem.

 

I have no faith in Edwards or the OL. Why should I, if either had done their job to even slightly below average standards last season we wouldn't have had the worst offense in the league under Edwards and one of the worst if not the worst one in Bills franchise history as well.

 

Hardy will command a one-on-one just like whomever else lined up at WR in whatever spot he assumes did last season until he can prove something in this league. You already talk about him as if it's a given that he's a shoe-in for success. The odds are strongly against it, for any WR, not just Hardy. But that doesn't seem to factor into your assessment.

 

In other words, the chances are greater that he amounts to nothing than they are that he even puts up a 500/5 season.

 

So until he does, which is all that several of us are saying, it hasn't happened and the offense isn't any different otherwise. So the offense will essentially only take a leap if Hardy explodes, the chances of which are remote.

While I wouldn't say I have no faith in the offensive line, I do have to agree that they were a bigger weakness than some people want to admit. Falling back on claiming one of the best OL's in football or that the line has improved doesn't cut it. Until the offensive line is a strength, the offense will remain a weakness.

 

I wouldn't say I have no faith in Edwards either. I think he showed a lot as a rookie. I feel he will take a step back this season, as many QB's do in their second year, before resuming his progression. I like his ability to read a defense, which will probably get better as the line and surrounding talent improves.

 

I think defenses will respect Hardy until he shows he doesn't deserve it, but they will still treat Evans as our primary target.

 

I wouldn't mind making a trade for Michael Jenkins as well- who has fallen out of favor in Atlanta. While he hasn't done much there, there hasn't been much at the QB position. At the very least, he could be an upgrade over Reed/Parrish and provide another large/skilled WR. I thought he was a very productive player coming out of college

[VOR]

I don't think it is quite that simple. This is the pros. A single play called almost beyond a doubt has variations as part of the play depending on the defensive reads. In the passing game, the QB is expected to make a progression of reads, the WRs are expected to make coverage reads, the OL is expected to adjust based on its pre-snap reads...

 

Being able to execute properly the play that was called is more important than switching the play. Executed properly, the "wrong" play might not be a homerun, but it shouldn't be a cluster either.

Not exactly. Say for example a play calls for a 5- or 7-step drop and you see a free blitzer coming from one side or another. There's no time for the play to be executed properly. You either need to get someone to block that blitzer or go to a quicker-developing play. Not having an audible system is idiotic, regardless of whether the Rams in 1999 truly didn't have audibles or not.

 

Does Turk know what he is doing?

 

I have no idea. I'd like to think that if he is carting the lion's share of the blame for the offense that he had the lion's share of decision making as to who played, the game plan, etc. But, there are ever present rumors that Ralph Wilson meddles with QB decisions and so forth -- who knows?

 

On the point though, it might be worth considering that Edwards really was not truly ready to go into an offense that is built around timing and throwing to windows, as we know the Coryell/Martz system is. He may be a quick study, but he hadn't played with the Bills receivers before and had no NFL experience, or experience in the system. On top of that, the line had never played together before, which no doubt had its own consequences. I tend to think that the Bills watered the O down significantly last year. Martz in running this offense has a history of not placing a huge emphasis on protecting his QB and prefers his QB to push the ball down the field rather than going to max-pro.

 

At any rate, it will be damn interesting to see what Schonert actually does.

Schonert is a former 10-year NFL QB who played with 3 different teams. He was a backup, but those are the types of guys who know the systems the best, but don't have the talent to do it. Fairchild had only played QB at community college. Given the choice between the two, and since there are no Shanahan-type offensive geniuses lying around, I feel better knowing the Bills' OC actually played in the NFL and has an idea what to expect.

 

And Fairchild was a RB's coach fr 2 years with the Bills before being promoted to OC with the Rams. How Martz tabbed him for that job I'll never understand, although Martz was apparently the real OC. But I'm sure Levy thought that Fairchild learned something from Martz that he could bring to Buffalo. He was wrong.

[keepthefaith]

Not exactly. Say for example a play calls for a 5- or 7-step drop and you see a free blitzer coming from one side or another. There's no time for the play to be executed properly. You either need to get someone to block that blitzer or go to a quicker-developing play. Not having an audible system is idiotic, regardless of whether the Rams in 1999 truly didn't have audibles or not.

 

 

Schonert is a former 10-year NFL QB who played with 3 different teams. He was a backup, but those are the types of guys who know the systems the best, but don't have the talent to do it. Fairchild had only played QB at community college. Given the choice between the two, and since there are no Shanahan-type offensive geniuses lying around, I feel better knowing the Bills' OC actually played in the NFL and has an idea what to expect.

 

And Fairchild was a RB's coach fr 2 years with the Bills before being promoted to OC with the Rams. How Martz tabbed him for that job I'll never understand, although Martz was apparently the real OC. But I'm sure Levy thought that Fairchild learned something from Martz that he could bring to Buffalo. He was wrong.

 

Maybe not. Fairchild and Jauron may not have been on the same page. I doubt we'll ever know. If you think about all the people involved last year (if you believe that the front office made the call to start Edwards) there could easily have been a lack of cohesion on how the offense should be run and by whom.

[krazykat]

The problem though is Jauron being a delegator, which is usually pushed as a strength of his coaching ability. If Schonert is out of his depth, who is going to come in and help him? Or does he just become a sacrifice for saving the rest of the staff?

 

For example, I don't see that just adding an audible system into a group that couldn't execute a dumbed down offense productively as a major difference maker.

 

I hope Turk's doing much more than that...

I couldn't agree with you more. In fact I see Schonert out there on an island all by himself. These guys can talk about how he played backup QB under Wyche all they want. One man does not an offense create. Particularly one that's never done it before. Funny though how there's already been some posts as to how he has.

 

He's going to need a mentor and I have no idea who he's going to draw upon for that. Making calls to people no longer in the league will only go so far. As you suggest, Jauron will be of no assistance.

 

IMO I expect little more than we got from Fairchild, partly because we just don't have the talent and if we did, then we wouldn't have scored fewer TDs than any other Bills offense in the history of the Bills in the NFL.

 

He's also already in over his head as his own comments condemn him there. There's little consistency. I'd guess that he is struggling already.

 

But hey, don't worry, be happy. Isn't that the theme here. LOL

[keepthefaith]

The problem though is Jauron being a delegator, which is usually pushed as a strength of his coaching ability. If Schonert is out of his depth, who is going to come in and help him? Or does he just become a sacrifice for saving the rest of the staff?

 

For example, I don't see that just adding an audible system into a group that couldn't execute a dumbed down offense productively as a major difference maker.

 

I hope Turk's doing much more than that...

 

Levy and Jauron are both considered delegators. Difference though is that Marv deferred to a guy named Marchibroda who had a slightlly better resume than anyone Jauron has worked with as an OC. BUT, Jauron picked his guys too didn't he. Notice how he's always picked relatively inexperienced coordinators? He picked Turk without even interviewing an outside candidate. Jauron is really making his bed here with his decisions. His boys better step up, or there is plenty of room for critism. Picking weak managers is usually a sign of a weak leader. In his defense, I think Fewell is the most under appreciated coach on the staff. He had little to work with last year, but my eyes told me that his guys on defense played their guts out on nearly every down.

[krazykat]

So let me see if I have this correct. I believe the Bills' offense will improve and I'm "digging a hole for myself," whereas you believe it won't get better, if not get worse, and this is completely correct thinking, right?

 

While on the other hand, you know the Jets and Fins will improve "more than" the Bills? Do you see the flaws inherent in this "logic?" What am I saying, of course you don't!

 

So what can we say for sure? That every team will remain the same? That we'll have to wait and see? Because if it's the latter, the only one "digging himself a hole" is the one who thinks that what he believes is right, without any proof.

 

But I believe I can reasonably say that the Bills' offense will be better this year than last year. Even if slightly. I can also say the same for the defense. Whether that's means they'll make the playoffs though remains to be seen.

When you figure out what it is that you're trying to say and have something intelligent to contribute, please do.

 

Also, if you're going to cite my stances, at least do so accurately please.

[krazykat]

Levy and Jauron are both considered delegators. Difference though is that Marv deferred to a guy named Marchibroda who had a slightlly better resume than anyone Jauron has worked with as an OC. BUT, Jauron picked his guys too didn't he. Notice how he's always picked relatively inexperienced coordinators? He picked Turk without even interviewing an outside candidate. Jauron is really making his bed here with his decisions. His boys better step up, or there is plenty of room for critism. Picking weak managers is usually a sign of a weak leader. In his defense, I think Fewell is the most under appreciated coach on the staff. He had little to work with last year, but my eyes told me that his guys on defense played their guts out on nearly every down.

Polian carried Marv from the top and Polian's players and Marv's assistants carried him from the bottom.

 

We had a Super Bowl winning collection of talent and all that Marv could do with it was lose four straight.

 

You're right about Jauron, he'd better be right because he's already flunked on one OC and has made this team worse from '05 when everyone said that it couldn't get any worse. I mean I don't know how many years he expects to be able to at least take this team up into the average range, but there's no excuse from taking it from a spot where it was almost impossible to make it worse but did. I mean think about that, the team is worse than it was under Malarkey in terms of its play. And the team's own decisions keep making it worse.

 

I honestly don't even know how it's happening because on paper we're better.

 

We were 31st in yardage differential last year and 25th in scoring differential down from 30th and 17th the year before and close to the 30th and 27th we were under Malarkey.

[Adam]

Polian carried Marv from the top and Polian's players and Marv's assistants carried him from the bottom.

 

We had a Super Bowl winning collection of talent and all that Marv could do with it was lose four straight.

 

You're right about Jauron, he'd better be right because he's already flunked on one OC and has made this team worse from '05 when everyone said that it couldn't get any worse. I mean I don't know how many years he expects to be able to at least take this team up into the average range, but there's no excuse from taking it from a spot where it was almost impossible to make it worse but did. I mean think about that, the team is worse than it was under Malarkey in terms of its play. And the team's own decisions keep making it worse.

 

I honestly don't even know how it's happening because on paper we're better.

 

We were 31st in yardage differential last year and 25th in scoring differential down from 30th and 17th the year before and close to the 30th and 27th we were under Malarkey.

OK, this is laughable. Marv Levy was a terrible coach that just bungled everything that Polian gave him.....right. He was a Hall of Famer, and that is acknowledged by him getting voted in. We had serious flaws in that team- a QB that struggled with reads and no true NT, which is shown by how teams ran on us in those superbowls.

 

Hey- I have an idea- lets get a new head coach, and trade Peters, Losman and Edwards for Brett Favre. That will fix everything!! Change for the sake of change- that will keep the short attentioned fans buying tickets!

[krazykat]

OK, this is laughable. Marv Levy was a terrible coach that just bungled everything that Polian gave him.....right. He was a Hall of Famer, and that is acknowledged by him getting voted in. We had serious flaws in that team- a QB that struggled with reads and no true NT, which is shown by how teams ran on us in those superbowls.

 

Hey- I have an idea- lets get a new head coach, and trade Peters, Losman and Edwards for Brett Favre. That will fix everything!! Change for the sake of change- that will keep the short attentioned fans buying tickets!

Well, after second thought, you're right.

 

Marv's record prior to joining the Bills stands for itself: 31-42 Hey, how 'bout that, exactly the same as Jauron's was at one point. Imagine.

 

And again, you're right, the second that Polian left and he wasn't still around to amass talent Levy's record soared to new heights with a 7-9 season followed by a pair of 10-6s before finisihing his career with a blazingly hot 6-10.

 

How could I be so blind!

[Adam]

Well, after second thought, you're right.

 

Marv's record prior to joining the Bills stands for itself: 31-42 Hey, how 'bout that, exactly the same as Jauron's was at one point. Imagine.

 

And again, you're right, the second that Polian left and he wasn't still around to amass talent Levy's record soared to new heights with a 7-9 season followed by a pair of 10-6s before finisihing his career with a blazingly hot 6-10.

 

How could I be so blind!

So you are saying that Levy was a good coach with good talent, and a bad coach with bad talent........that makes him like everyone else!

[VOR]

When you figure out what it is that you're trying to say and have something intelligent to contribute, please do.

 

Also, if you're going to cite my stances, at least do so accurately please.

When you get a brain, maybe you'll understand the farcical hypocrite you are. Maybe you've gone braindead from the Bills missing the playoffs all these years. To which I say, step away from the game, for your own good.

 

But if you want to keep getting kicked in the head, please explain again how the Fins "improved more than" the Bills. Or how Jake Long, according to those same scouts you used to bash Hardy, won't be a huge bust as an NFL OT. Or how the Jets have definitely improved their team.

[keepthefaith]

When you get a brain, maybe you'll understand the farcical hypocrite you are. Maybe you've gone braindead from the Bills missing the playoffs all these years. To which I say, step away from the game, for your own good.

 

But if you want to keep getting kicked in the head, please explain again how the Fins "improved more than" the Bills. Or how Jake Long, according to those same scouts you used to bash Hardy, won't be a huge bust as an NFL OT. Or how the Jets have definitely improved their team.

 

You know what? Who cares. The Bills (the likes of Jauron, Turk, Edwards, and a bunch of new players) have the opportunity to show us all that together they are difference makers. Until then, opinions don't matter.

[VOR]

You know what? Who cares. The Bills (the likes of Jauron, Turk, Edwards, and a bunch of new players) have the opportunity to show us all that together they are difference makers. Until then, opinions don't matter.

Fair enough. I'm done.

[krazykat]

You know what? Who cares. The Bills (the likes of Jauron, Turk, Edwards, and a bunch of new players) have the opportunity to show us all that together they are difference makers. Until then, opinions don't matter.

Correct, other than for the sake of discussion which is what forums are all about.