VOR Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 No, I didn't. Completely missed it in fact. Gee, what a shock. It's your attention to detail that impresses us. Does that change things? Nope. You're still the same joke we knew you were.
obie_wan Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 Ikegwuono was nowhere NEAR a 1st round prospect. And keep professing your brilliance by reading the stat sheet. having this guy be a scrub and still able to shut down Hardy does not help your argument that Hardy can beat the jam.
VOR Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 having this guy be a scrub and still able to shut down Hardy does not help your argument that Hardy can beat the jam. And simply reading the stat-line (ignoring the stat-line of the QB, not to mention the recap of the game) doesn't help prove that he can't beat the jam. If someone saw the game, I'd like to hear it. And I'd like to know who are the "big, physical CB's" on the teams the Bills will be playing, who will cover him.
Adam Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I'd be surpised if he doesn't play a lot in the slot this year
VOR Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 I'd be surpised if he doesn't play a lot in the slot this year The way I see it, the Bills don't have a #2 WR from among the guys they already had. Reed and Parrish are slot guys. The rest are ST'ers until proven otherwise. So put Hardy at the #2 slot, put those guys inside, and let Hardy develop as a rookie and get ahead of the curve. I seriously doubt he's NOT working on his weaknesses and will never improve on them.
Adam Posted July 19, 2008 Posted July 19, 2008 The way I see it, the Bills don't have a #2 WR from among the guys they already had. Reed and Parrish are slot guys. The rest are ST'ers until proven otherwise. So put Hardy at the #2 slot, put those guys inside, and let Hardy develop as a rookie and get ahead of the curve. I seriously doubt he's NOT working on his weaknesses and will never improve on them. I think Reed will battle Parrish for the 2nd outside position. My guess is that we will work on Hardy's outside skills against man coverage this season and he may see some time out there, but he probably will play inside until games get out of hand- it is our best shot at having a somewhat productive offensive unit this year
krazykat Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I'd be surpised if he doesn't play a lot in the slot this year Hardy? I would. If he's a slot WR we're in trouble. We have a fine slot guy, two in fact in Reed and Parrish. You're not going to get the kind of improvements that we are all hoping for if Hardy only lines up in the slot. We need a spread #2 opposite Evans, not more slot guys. I think Reed will battle Parrish for the 2nd outside position. My guess is that we will work on Hardy's outside skills against man coverage this season and he may see some time out there, but he probably will play inside until games get out of hand- it is our best shot at having a somewhat productive offensive unit this year Ditto above. That's the problem, neither of those two guys have been able to step up into that role. If Reed or Parrish could have, adequately, then the other could have easily played slot.
krazykat Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 having this guy be a scrub and still able to shut down Hardy does not help your argument that Hardy can beat the jam. VOR is like that dog you know that keeps chasing his tail actually believing that at some point he's gonna catch it. LOL About as quick in wit too.
krazykat Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I think that he saw what he said he saw. You see not everything is black and white. There are many shades of grey when drafting a player, those are a players intangibles and those don't show up on the stat sheets all the time. Hardy scored 36 TD's in 33 games, I don't care if he gets great separation all the time or even some of the time, at 6'6 and a vert of 42 in. he should be fine with most db's being around him. That's his greatest value. If there are times that he can get separation and get down the field then great, at least that is something that can be learned. His potential is in those intangibles I mentioned above and sometimes they translate better when watching a player often as opposed to seeing him from time to time. So in essence then, if say the Fins or Jets had drafted him, then he would suck, be unable to separate, avoid the jam, etc. But since we drafted him, not everything is black and white, what the scouts that do this for a living saw is meaningless and means they don't know what they're talking about, and then of course, yes, of course the "intangibles" and the "many shades," ... LOL We'll see how much his pure size, which seems by far and away to be his primary asset, does for him in the NFL. Personally I wouldn't have relied so much on simply that, but hey, I'm not an "expert." LOL
krazykat Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I saw a stat somewhere that last year there about 38 passes in the red zone to players over 6'-'5". Only 16 were completed. Hardy needs to be more than tall to be productive in the NFL. He has 2 major flaws in his game which is why he dropped out of the 1st round. In addition to making the normal transition to teh NFL which takes 3 years, he has additional work to do. odds are that Hardy won;t contribute consistently in 2008. Camp starts in a week. We'll be hearing something in a few weeks. Of course everyone will look like they're going to make the Pro Bowl in camp, especially if you read and trust Chris Brown. Hardy's play during the season will be moot if Edwards doesn't kick it up a bunch of notches.
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I'd be surpised if he doesn't play a lot in the slot this year He played the X at Indiana ... at least the very little that I've seen of him. They may be better served to break him in by leaving him there and move Evans to the Z, with Reed/Parrish in the slot. Not saying they will, of course... PS: Actually, considering the history, Hardy will most likely be an afterthought until he can prove he is demonstrably better than the veterans, whether that is by injury or by stellar play when he does get his chances.
VOR Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 VOR is like that dog you know that keeps chasing his tail actually believing that at some point he's gonna catch it. LOL About as quick in wit too. What a coincidence. You keep producing facts from your backside and then I shove them back in your face. How slow does one have to be to look at the wrong page for stats or not realize when he's quoted someone twice?
VOR Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 So in essence then, if say the Fins or Jets had drafted him, then he would suck, be unable to separate, avoid the jam, etc. But since we drafted him, not everything is black and white, what the scouts that do this for a living saw is meaningless and means they don't know what they're talking about, and then of course, yes, of course the "intangibles" and the "many shades," ... LOL Yep, those scouts are correct 100% of the time. So when they say about Jake Long (a guy you've touted) that he's "a little tight in his hips, lacking ideal lateral agility in his kick-slide and can struggle when having to immediately change direction" or "best operating in a short area, as he does show some balance issues when asked to run long distances" it means he'll never even be a good RT in the NFL, right? We'll see how much his pure size, which seems by far and away to be his primary asset, does for him in the NFL. Personally I wouldn't have relied so much on simply that, but hey, I'm not an "expert." LOL True. Forget the 4.45 speed. Or agility. Or leaping ability.
KOKBILLS Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 He played the X at Indiana ... at least the very little that I've seen of him. They may be better served to break him in by leaving him there and move Evans to the Z, with Reed/Parrish in the slot. Not saying they will, of course... I'm pretty sure that's the Plan...They seem to think Reed and Parrish are better suited to the Slot anyway... X, Y, or Z...Hardy needs to make Plays no matter where He Plays...But I don't think He's a match for the NFL Slot anyway... We'll see soon enough...I'm SO intrigued by what Hardy will bring to this Offense...I imagine it's the #1 Pre Season Story as far as The Bills, and Bills Fans are concerned...
Adam Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 I'm pretty sure that's the Plan...They seem to think Reed and Parrish are better suited to the Slot anyway... X, Y, or Z...Hardy needs to make Plays no matter where He Plays...But I don't think He's a match for the NFL Slot anyway... We'll see soon enough...I'm SO intrigued by what Hardy will bring to this Offense...I imagine it's the #1 Pre Season Story as far as The Bills, and Bills Fans are concerned... Don't forget that he is a rookie WR. I don't expect a heck of a lot out of him this year. Not to mention that he has a very inexperienced QB throwing the ball to him. On thing I wouldn't mind seeing is Hardy and Reed lined up side by side with Evans right behind them- snap the ball, toss it to Evans, and let them block.
KOKBILLS Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 Don't forget that he is a rookie WR. I don't expect a heck of a lot out of him this year. Not to mention that he has a very inexperienced QB throwing the ball to him. That's exactly why I'm so intrigued... I look at this Offense and assume The Bills will be able to Run the Ball with some effectiveness...But without Hardy making some Plays, I question whether or not The Bills Passing Offense can improve significantly in 08...Sure Edwards should improve some, Marshawn will get some more Passes thrown his way, etc, etc...But The Bills need more from the WR position, and that's why they Drafted Hardy... Hardy spent a lot of time in the endzone in College and that's why it seems there is at least a chance he could fit exactly what the Bills lack at WR...I'm certainly not saying Hardy needs to grab 80 plus catches, for 1000 yds and 10 TD's...But he needs to make some big Plays for scores in order for this Offense to take more than a couple baby steps forward in the Passing Game... We'll see soon enough...It is a lot of pressure for a Rookie...Hardy is in a unique situation coming to Buffalo...There is no question The Bills Organization wants JH to step up and Start at WR...It's a BIG need on this Team...And that does not happen much to 2nd Round WR's in the NFL...So how Hardy handles this will be REAL interesting to watch... Can We just get Camp started already?...
Bill from NYC Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 See, the first and major problem with your post, and something that once again you ran from and ignored, was that offensive rankings have absolutely nothing to do with how the defnse plays. They are attained by yards gained on offense. Imagine that. Huh, SHA-zam, eh. So those 9th and 11th rankings, well, let's just say that unless Bruce, Ted Washington, or Paup, or whomever actually lined up in a backfield, and took a snap as the O backfield was flooded with defenders, donned their Green Hornet costume, and in super hero fashion just took to the stripes an posted several long runs for TD skewing the stats, something that I quite honestly do not recall occurring back then while I was at most games, then the offense took it upon themselves to post those stats. Again, which were above average. In '99 our offense ranked 19th passing and 6th rushing. In '00 it was just above average in both. So I see your point, it was our line anchored by Hicks, Spriggs and Nails and their 0 Pro Bowl seasons that really paved the way for their illustrious future hall of fame careers and our above average offensive performance while Ostroski at C had nothing to do with it. Got it! I must bow to your astute and shrewd analyses. Oh but wait, I forgot about Linton, Smith, Bryson, and Sammy Morris lit it up before leaving and producing hall of fame careers. Again, my bad. Apologies. It's no wonder you're hoping for more than this team's going to deliver this year. You have no idea what you are talking about. You have convinced me that you know nothing about football, other than the fact that you like JP Losman in some way. 1999 you bring up? Rushing stats? Doug Flutie ran for 476 yards in 1999, most of them on broken plays. Flutie thrived on broken plays. Take away his yardage and how do your nonsensical rankings look? Any different? Wrt passing, Flutie was most effective at taking the snap and rolling out. Rarely did he have a pocket to stand in and when he did, it must have been pretty hard to see over it. Many of his passes were blocked at scrimage. The above is not meant to blast Flutie, who was perfect for this team. He masked the gaping wound of a pathetic OL, and was good at getting out of trouble. Again, that was his game. To give Ostroski credit for these meaningless stats and label him as an above average OC proves that you really don't know anything about football. You are good at complaining and taking sides. You are a JP Fanboy because you like his stats (or perhaps in this one instance there are other reasons). You dislike Jauron because you don't like his stats. You blast Edwards because of his rookie stats. Now, Jerry O is above average because of yardage compiled by Flutie. Oh, and the Bills stout defense stopping their opponents and giving Flutie the ball again and again means nothing in you clouded statistical world either, right? Gotcha! You should give up football and go to other types of events. Are there calculator conventions?
VOR Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 You have no idea what you are talking about. You have convinced me that you know nothing about football, other than the fact that you like JP Losman in some way. 1999 you bring up? Rushing stats? Doug Flutie ran for 476 yards in 1999, most of them on broken plays. Flutie thrived on broken plays. Take away his yardage and how do your nonsensical rankings look? Any different? Wrt passing, Flutie was most effective at taking the snap and rolling out. Rarely did he have a pocket to stand in and when he did, it must have been pretty hard to see over it. Many of his passes were blocked at scrimage. The above is not meant to blast Flutie, who was perfect for this team. He masked the gaping wound of a pathetic OL, and was good at getting out of trouble. Again, that was his game. To give Ostroski credit for these meaningless stats and label him as an above average OC proves that you really don't know anything about football. You are good at complaining and taking sides. You are a JP Fanboy because you like his stats (or perhaps in this one instance there are other reasons). You dislike Jauron because you don't like his stats. You blast Edwards because of his rookie stats. Now, Jerry O is above average because of yardage compiled by Flutie. Oh, and the Bills stout defense stopping their opponents and giving Flutie the ball again and again means nothing in you clouded statistical world either, right? Gotcha! You should give up football and go to other types of events. Are there calculator conventions? You should give up football and attend The bolded part pretty much sums it up.
krazykat Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 He played the X at Indiana ... at least the very little that I've seen of him. They may be better served to break him in by leaving him there and move Evans to the Z, with Reed/Parrish in the slot. Not saying they will, of course... PS: Actually, considering the history, Hardy will most likely be an afterthought until he can prove he is demonstrably better than the veterans, whether that is by injury or by stellar play when he does get his chances. That might make sense. I don't see that changing what's been right is a good thing however. Evans needs to be the X guy. Some were hard on Evans last year, but it's not like we went to him nearly as often as we did the year prior. I don't know what Hardy played in college, but as we all know what happened in college can usually be thrown out the window upon moving to the NFL. Hardy doesn't have the prototypical traits of a #1 WR in the NFL at this point. He may have caught some deep balls last year, but I've already shown that he didn't play any great passing defenses. But another fact is that just about all of his TD catches were in the 7-10 yard range which to me suggests that first of all like everyone says he will be a great Red Zone target, but that he also will have the greatest use within 5-15 yards of the line. He's probably not going t be a good slot, but who cares. Both Reed and Parrish are very good slots so we don't need him for that. With all of this talk about Hardy, the team really needs to make far greater use of Evans. We should be viewing Hardy as nothing more than making sure that happens. Anything more right now for this season is too optimistic. If Evans leaves, which seems all but certain now, then we can begin talking about what Hardy or Johnson can do next year in the #1 or X if there's even any basis for that kind of discussion. If Hardy's presence doesn't help Evans get back to the kind of numbers he posted in '06 w/ Losman throwing to him and Anthony Thomas at RB and a weaker OL, then Hardy sure isn't going to make up the yardage and scoring deficit on offense.
VOR Posted July 20, 2008 Posted July 20, 2008 With all of this talk about Hardy, the team really needs to make far greater use of Evans. We should be viewing Hardy as nothing more than making sure that happens. Anything more right now for this season is too optimistic. If Evans leaves, which seems all but certain now, then we can begin talking about what Hardy or Johnson can do next year in the #1 or X if there's even any basis for that kind of discussion. If Hardy's presence doesn't help Evans get back to the kind of numbers he posted in '06 w/ Losman throwing to him and Anthony Thomas at RB and a weaker OL, then Hardy sure isn't going to make up the yardage and scoring deficit on offense. If you paid attention, some of us have been saying that Hardy's presence, if nothing else, will draw attention away from Evans. You simply cannot ignore a guy who is 6'5" 220#, runs a 4.45, is agile, and has a 37" vertical jump, or even put a LB'er on him.
Recommended Posts