Scouts Inc. Fantasy O-Line rankings

[34-78-83]

they were forced to overspend big bucks just to field an OL- yet they close the checkbook when it comes to their best and most important LT - which they lucked into.

 

Theyw have no bonafide player on the roster who can step in at either OT spot if needed.

 

Close the checkbook? The guy just got a new contract and has 3 years left on it. They're gonna take care of him but they can't just run out and throw money at him now. They would lose all leverage with all their players. It's funny to me that people think they may not take care of Peters. It may look ugly for a little while but it will happen.

 

re: the second point - And neither does any other team that I can think of.

[krazykat]

The Cowboys game is a real case study. The Cowboys are a very talented team -- many think the most talented team in the NFC, in fact. And the half-fullians could use the fact that I took a miracle finish for the Cowboys to knock off the Bills as positive evidence that the Bills are blossoming into an upper echelon team, ready for the playoffs.

 

On the other hand, one could ask: how often does a team that is +6 in turnover margin in an NFL game lose? The odds are extremely long; it is profoundly rare. Because, in order to accomplish this amazing feat, the other team has to be superior in all phases of the game: they have to mentally tougher, better prepared to deal with adversity and adjust on the fly -- making up a gameplan in real time; they have to have a defense that can shut it down on a short field; they have to have special teams that can keep the TOs from hurting them too badly on field position; and, they have to have an offense that is so superior that 6 major mistakes can be overcome with more than 6 major positive plays.

 

Very nicely summed up!

[krazykat]

How many years in the free agency era of the NFL must a team have to rebuild? Buffalo's been doing it since Donahoe was fired, and reasonable fans would like to see something this decade.

 

We all know on paper how difficult the AFC might be this season. One team always rises out of nowhere, but I have a sinking feeling that Buffalo will go 9-7, miss the postseason, and some fans around here will call this progress and demand DJ have another season.

I don't think you'll have to worry about us having a winning season. If Losman starts, maybe.

[krazykat]

Build up a core through the draft and don't break the bank for a free agent until they are one of the final pieces. We are making progress, we just need to get our young players experience. By the way, I am so happy that Fletcher and Clements are no longer on the team.

 

On the coaching issue, what do you want out of a coach. The team plays hard for him, they are more disciplined than they have been in years- penalties are down most of the time. They have been in position to take the ball away. What else does a coach do? Guys have to make more plays than the other team and the coach can't really control that.

How do you know we're making progress? It's not being manifested in our records.

 

What do we want out of a coach? How about strategy and game plans that see to it that our team wins in the trenches and can move the ball and put it across the goal line like we should. Call me crazy.

 

And you say we're making progress. I mean to you being dead F last in the NFL in offensive scoring with a defense ranking almost that low is "making progress?"

 

I have no idea what "good" is in your mind, but if that's "making progress" then your standards are ridiculously low.

 

And you say the players are "playing hard" for Jauron. Other than being just another cliche, what you're saying is that they play hard and still lose and can't move the ball or stop opposing offenses.

 

I mean listen to what you're actually saying here. You sound like one of those guys on the Sunday football shows just blathering on to keep the audience's interest. It makes no sense whatsoever when weighed against the facts though.

[VOR]

Close the checkbook? The guy just got a new contract and has 3 years left on it. They're gonna take care of him but they can't just run out and throw money at him now. They would lose all leverage with all their players. It's funny to me that people think they may not take care of Peters. It may look ugly for a little while but it will happen.

I'd have no problem with the Bills losing leverage with players who come off All-Pro seasons. And giving him a deal now, a year before the next round of free agency hits and contracts skyrocket again, might not cost the Bills much more than if they wait, and it will make Peters feel better.

[krazykat]

Hey, I understand the frustration, but you can't build a team on frree agency. It just won't work. Donahoe tried it and failed miserably.

That's also a bunch of rot too. It's clearly a part of how to build a team. You're right inasmuch as the draft should be your element of stability for future generations of your team, but FAcy is a very important element of building a team.

 

Otherwise, aren't you one of the ones talking about how good we will be?

 

With almost nothing but FAs as the primary part of our "building" this year, why do you anticipate positive results if that's no way to build a team?

 

Stroud, Mitchell, and Johnson are our biggest acquisitions and most definitely the ones expected to make the most immediate impact. All free agents.

 

Unless you're one of those not expecting much this season, your logic appears to be inconsistent.

[krazykat]

Building the core through the draft is the key. It is exactly how the Chargers, Colts, and Patriots were built. (Although the Patriots do a good job of adding spare parts in FA, typically, as well.) Oh, and I'll toss in the Giants as well. This emphasizes several things.

 

A) The FO must have a viable blueprint for what they want to build in the first place. Just playing spin the wheel each off-season and trying to score marketing flash isn't a blueprint or a plan.

 

B) A team needs a core. A core is a group of players that are the leaders of the team. "The navy is run by its chiefs."

 

C) The draft is the best way to go. Its not about pinching the pennies and winning the battle for "team with the most cap space" -- it's about drafting, developing, and retaining talent so that your franchise doesn't go through 10 year droughts of losing, ineptness, and chasing butterflies. Every team whiffs on draft picks, but successful teams don't make a habit of wasting their picks with nothing to show for it year in and year out. It's like that commercial where the guy buys a painting in an auction house and before he sits back down he wants to sell it. That's not building for the future or investing in your people. That's being a fool.

Another excellent post!

 

A & B in particular. That's clearly what we've lacked in seasons past. It almost seems as if the coaches and GMs have tried a plug-n-play approach to running the team continuing to shuffle the deck simply in hopes that at some point it will gel. Whether by FA or draftee, there has in fact been no medium range plan by anyone and this current regime continues that trend.

 

Remember they came in and announced clearly that they were not rebuilding. OK, fine. But then in their second season they announced a rebuilding. That alone says all that anyone would want to know about having a plan, which alone makes Jauron a poor coach. They clearly had absolutely no plan coming in or until after a season was wasted and all the opportunities for an early rebuild were squandered.

 

Now the team. meaning Jauron & Co., find itself in a position where they must balance keeping their jobs with the longer term interests of this team. If conficts arise, which of the two do we really think will take precedence.

 

The core group of players is what Donahoe tried to bring in through free agency but failed because he brought in all has beens. Otherwise, let's pin the failures for our inabilities to assemble a core group of players where the majority of it should be placed, the same personnel guys (Modrak, Guy, Majeski) that Donahoe brought in, are still here, and that have failed many times already.

 

The closest thing we have to a core group of good players is Whitner, Poz, and McGee on defense. Schobel's got one foot out the door and there isn't another impact player on D pending how Stroud plays, but he's a newbie FA. Poz isn't even a given.

 

Offensively when your LT is the core you have issues. Edwards hasn't proven a thing. Lynch is solid but again, now with character issues for which it remains to be seen how it impacts his second and most critical season. Evans is gone for anyone that can see the writing on the wall, unless we light it up this year I suppose, but who wants to put any money on that happening.

 

There is no core and there hasn't been and our best players all end up seemingly either getting the boot or getting so pissed off at the franchise that they just see red and want to leave, now with JP and Evans. Not that JP is necessarily good however.

 

The draft is where you get value for your money outside of top 15 picks or so, which may or may not provide value although the odds are against it. But you have to get something for your drafts, and barring those in development, we've hardly gotten anything from them and what we have has been more by accident (Peters, McGee as a KR), than by solid draft planning resulting in primarily failures. (Mike Williams, Parrish, Everett, Losman, Youboty, McCargo?? as a 1st-round trade up, Tim Anderson, Josh Reed, Ryan Denney, Coy Wire)

 

Those were all day one picks that haven't come close to living up to their statuses with several having been traded up to get. You just can't draft like that and expect much. OR, it could be the coaching and/or both.

[krazykat]

Until that blue print puts some emphasis on the OL, this team will continue to go no-where.

 

over the last 10 years, only 3 picks in the top 4 rounds (44 picks) on the OL.

 

they were forced to overspend big bucks just to field an OL- yet they close the checkbook when it comes to their best and most important LT - which they lucked into.

 

Theyw have no bonafide player on the roster who can step in at either OT spot if needed.

Yeah, and their biggest and best prospect was a huge gamble in UFA Peters that just happened to work out and wasn't a high probability chance at all.

 

But again, that stems directly from one of two things, a philosophy that deemphasizes the lines, which is idiocy. Or, complete and utter failure in assessing linemen brought on board here. IMO it's a combination of both. Either way, it only says that those leading this team are ignorant and/or just not that bright.

[krazykat]

Name the teams who do. Now.

Red herring alert!

[krazykat]

I'd have no problem with the Bills losing leverage with players who come off All-Pro seasons. And giving him a deal now, a year before the next round of free agency hits and contracts skyrocket again, might not cost the Bills much more than if they wait, and it will make Peters feel better.

The real issue is that we just aren't getting value from the monies shelled out for:

 

Kelsay

Dockery

Walker

 

Think about what we could get if we could free up all of the guaranteed and other money that we spent on those guys?

 

We could probably sign five decent linemen with people that knew what they were doing with the $100M+ that we gave them.

[VOR]

Red herring alert!

Versus an "unverified claim" alert? I'm still waiting to hear about all these starting quality backup LT's teams have. Or how Hardy couldn't beat the jam or get separation in college.

[VOR]

The real issue is that we just aren't getting value from the monies shelled out for:

 

Kelsay

Dockery

Walker

 

Think about what we could get if we could free up all of the guaranteed and other money that we spent on those guys?

 

We could probably sign five decent linemen with people that knew what they were doing with the $100M+ that we gave them.

When these guys get their $100M and they've still underperformed their contracts, then we'll talk. Until then, we'll see what effect an inept OC, rookie QB and rookie RB had on the offense.

[34-78-83]

The real issue is that we just aren't getting value from the monies shelled out for:

 

Kelsay

Dockery

Walker

 

Think about what we could get if we could free up all of the guaranteed and other money that we spent on those guys?

 

We could probably sign five decent linemen with people that knew what they were doing with the $100M+ that we gave them.

 

 

I'll leave Kelsay out because I agree with you re: him based on his production

re: the other 2 -

-There is a new cap in the NFL and many fans are still shocked and surprised by the size of the contracts for free agents, but it goes across the board to all teams and not just the Bills.

-Walker played at a level far superior than most Bills fans expected last year. In my view he was our best lineman not named Peters.

-Dockery is a proven road grader and had a decent though maybe unspectacular year. Many fans know what we have in him already from seeing him play with the Skins.

-Lines are only as good as the continuity and chemistry of the 5 guys playing.

-The guys we have played better last year than any Bill's O-line since '96 as far as I am concerned, especially in the pass protection department.

As they play more together, they only are going to improve. This could only be looked at as a positive as I see it.

 

The point is, these guys ARE decent linemen and the guys upstairs finally did know what they were doing in acquiring them. There are always going to be guys we pick up that don't pan out though too. That's the nature of the sport. The current regime in place has made large efforts to address both lines since arriving.

[Sisyphean Bills]

I'd have no problem with the Bills losing leverage with players who come off All-Pro seasons. And giving him a deal now, a year before the next round of free agency hits and contracts skyrocket again, might not cost the Bills much more than if they wait, and it will make Peters feel better.

I'm not sure that I have much problem with it either. People that do their jobs exceptionally well are rare. They deserve to be paid well and kept happy. Good management does that.

Re: The OL As they play more together, they only are going to improve.

If this were only true. Continuity on the lines is definitely a good thing. Shuffling personnel in the trenches constantly is never good. However, continuity alone does not guarantee positive results. In the Ostroski Era of Buffalo lines, the Bills had very good continuity, and that line was a huge tease every year. They'd play themselves into being an effective line in December and look like a group of school girls the following September annually. I rather think that a line is only as strong as its weakest link. If you field a 3 or 4 stud offensive line, the defense is going to attack the 1 or 2 duds.

[keepthefaith]

I'll leave Kelsay out because I agree with you re: him based on his production

re: the other 2 -

-There is a new cap in the NFL and many fans are still shocked and surprised by the size of the contracts for free agents, but it goes across the board to all teams and not just the Bills.

-Walker played at a level far superior than most Bills fans expected last year. In my view he was our best lineman not named Peters.

-Dockery is a proven road grader and had a decent though maybe unspectacular year. Many fans know what we have in him already from seeing him play with the Skins.

-Lines are only as good as the continuity and chemistry of the 5 guys playing.

-The guys we have played better last year than any Bill's O-line since '96 as far as I am concerned, especially in the pass protection department.

As they play more together, they only are going to improve. This could only be looked at as a positive as I see it.

 

The point is, these guys ARE decent linemen and the guys upstairs finally did know what they were doing in acquiring them. There are always going to be guys we pick up that don't pan out though too. That's the nature of the sport. The current regime in place has made large efforts to address both lines since arriving.

 

Agree. The Bills have certainly upgraded the talent on the team. It's time they get some results in the W-L category to show for it.

[VOR]

I'm not sure that I have much problem with it either. People that do their jobs exceptionally well are rare. They deserve to be paid well and kept happy. Good management does that.

I agree, and the Bills should have done this WELL before it got to the point of Peters skipping OTA's and mini-camp. They did it with Schobel, and later with Williams and Butler, and the latter 2 aren't near Peters' caliber and haven't been starting as long.

[Bill from NYC]

Close the checkbook? The guy just got a new contract and has 3 years left on it. They're gonna take care of him but they can't just run out and throw money at him now. They would lose all leverage with all their players. It's funny to me that people think they may not take care of Peters. It may look ugly for a little while but it will happen.

 

re: the second point - And neither does any other team that I can think of.

 

He got the new contract as a RT?, no? I don't remember. Either way, now is the time to lock him up.

[34-78-83]

He got the new contract as a RT?, no? I don't remember. Either way, now is the time to lock him up.

 

I think it will be handled as a priority by the team, just possibly not right away. There's bound to be some back and forth depending on the agent and I maintain that if the Bills just simply give in without a negotiation, they will lose leverage with ALL players going forward.

[Sisyphean Bills]

He got the new contract as a RT?, no? I don't remember. Either way, now is the time to lock him up.

The price will only go up and up as the cap goes along its exponential curve.

 

The Bills need their "chiefs" and core leaders. Pissing off their best players isn't putting a good foot forward.

 

Sometimes, I wonder if the "loose purse strings" of the Butler regime has scarred this franchise so deeply, they are incapable of making decisions that lead to success.

[obie_wan]

I'll leave Kelsay out because I agree with you re: him based on his production

re: the other 2 -

-There is a new cap in the NFL and many fans are still shocked and surprised by the size of the contracts for free agents, but it goes across the board to all teams and not just the Bills.

-Walker played at a level far superior than most Bills fans expected last year. In my view he was our best lineman not named Peters.

-Dockery is a proven road grader and had a decent though maybe unspectacular year. Many fans know what we have in him already from seeing him play with the Skins.

-Lines are only as good as the continuity and chemistry of the 5 guys playing.

-The guys we have played better last year than any Bill's O-line since '96 as far as I am concerned, especially in the pass protection department.

As they play more together, they only are going to improve. This could only be looked at as a positive as I see it.

 

The point is, these guys ARE decent linemen and the guys upstairs finally did know what they were doing in acquiring them. There are always going to be guys we pick up that don't pan out though too. That's the nature of the sport. The current regime in place has made large efforts to address both lines since arriving.

 

 

Still trying to understand how with a pro-bowl LT and 2 other OL who you deem to be very good players, our offense was able to finish in the bottom 3 in most offense categories.

 

Although the scapegoat is Fairchild, seems to me the OL did not perform as advertised.