ax4782 Posted July 12, 2008 Posted July 12, 2008 You may not like comments that question Jauron's capability as a head coach but there is simply no argumaent that can be substantiated that he is anything but average at best (and probably below average) as a head coach. His teams in Chicago, Detroit and Buffalo have rarely beat quality opponents. Don't throw the 13-3 Bears at me. I watched nearly every game that season. They were incredibly lucky and after getting a bye and home field advantage were dismantled by the wild card Eagles. Getting below average or average talent to 6 or 7 wins a year is not the same as achieving playoff wins with good talent. There are few coaches in the league with more to prove than him IMO. I think that last sentence of yours said it all. Jauron has never had anything other than below average to average talent. Counting his time in Detroit is a bit unfair, as the team at that point was in free fall and the players had totally given up. Considering that they were still competitive in any of those games I think shows the opposite of what you suggest. And for those comments about "he got lucky" in that 13-3 season, I hate to break this to you, but luck is as big a part of football as the skill you put out on the field, so to say he got lucky is really a moot point. In any given season you need more luck than your opponent every game to get to the Super Bowl, so I don't think that says anything negative about him. The fact is, this is going to be the first season that Jauron has a relatively stable FO behind him and a team that has above average talent and two years of cohesion. I haven't decided what I think about Jauron yet as a coach. I do, however, realize that realities have to be accounted for when looking at a situation. Whether you like it or not, this team is probably better than 7-9 last year, even with how bad we supposedly were, if we aren't starting PS players and third stringers in some cases on D. We probably wouldn't have made the playoffs, but I think we could have won another game or two. And there was just as much luck going against us last year that cost us two or three games. Dallas got two lucky breaks at the end of the game, as did Denver, so perhaps last year Jauron was was just unlucky? No, it must have been that he was a terrible coach. By the way, you and Sisyphean weren't the only ones who watched Jauron while he was in Chicago and I certainly think that he: 1. Had below average talent on both sides of the ball 2. Had a front office in disarray 3. Had no consistent QB play and only three terrible QBs to run the offense 4. Injury problems on both the OL and DL during his tenure But hey, those realities don't play a part in the outcome of a coach. Because a coach should be a demi-god, able to control everything that happens, prevent injuries, make sure that all the players play far above anything they are even reasonably capable of, and make sure that every move by the FO is the best one.
ax4782 Posted July 12, 2008 Posted July 12, 2008 That is a decent level headed response, except for the last paragraph where you again presume to know what I think. Your dogging defense of Jauron by ad hominem attacks against me do nothing to change my view that Jauron is, at his very best, a very average NFL head coach. He has his good qualities: he's stand up; he's a good teacher; he goes to bat for his players; he doesn't overreact; he gets along very well with the people he works with both up and down the ladder. But he has some serious deficiencies: his teams don't win enough (which should be a major part of any evaluation in this business); he can't beat quality competition (call it sarcasm, but it is a fact -- 0.189 lifetime against playoff teams); he's not a good game day coach; his strategy is simple and unimaginative, amounting to taking the air out of the ball; he's an imitator not an innovator; he has never shown he can build a team (whether you believe he is just a bystander or not); his coaching hires, particularly on offense, have been atrocious (which begs the question, is it really the OCs that are always 100% at fault or is there some other common thread?); he also can't seem to ever keep his teams very healthy (maybe it is also just coincidence, of course, but his Bears teams had plenty of injury stories too -- although having Chris Chandler run a QB sneak had to be one of the top 10 dumbest coaching decisions that I've ever seen). But, to answer you honestly: I think Dick Jauron is an average NFL head coach. Nothing more and nothing less. I do see that he has his good qualities, just like most everyone brings some good qualities to their vocation. I hope that he can learn on the job and correct some of his other deficiencies, but this off-season smacked an awful lot to me of business-as-usual for the same old Buffalo Bills. So, yes, Dick Jauron has a thing or two to prove. Further, I'm not really convinced that he has just one more season to prove himself at this point. A ton of things could happen that would allow him to eel off any metaphorical hook and given that the GM position has been done away with, it would require the 4-headed hydra GM to agree that Dick was not performing and that a change had to happen after only 3 years in. As far as 08, I don't expect the Bills to make the playoffs. The AFC has too many excellent teams for the Bills to crack the top 6. It could happen if all the bounces go their way, but that seems like betting against the odds. The Bills will have their problems in 08, whatever those issues turn out to be. I expect more of the same, with some players not stepping up while other players improve. Frankly, nothing would surprise me. I could see the wheels falling off and this team going 3-13. I could also see a lot of things going the Bills way and they make the 6th seed in the playoffs to get hammered by a more talented team. So, I fundamentally agree that neither high nor low expectations are necessarily completely wrong and grounds to call other fans morons and idiots. I would not consider it an ad hominem attack, but if it was conveyed that way to you, I apologize. I try not to get into the business of name calling or personal attacks. It's just messy and distills conversation. That being said, I do agree that Jauron is not a "great" coach, but I don't think he is below average either. This is really the first time in his coaching career that he will have an FO that is behind him and a cohesive team that, assuming they can stay healthy, has what I would call above average talent. This is a sink or swim year for him. If the Bills stay healthy, and they finish at 8-8 or worse, I think this year was a failure and he will either be gone or on the hot seat. I don't think he is going to get much more time than this season. However, if he goes 10-6 or 11-5, I don't think it is only going to be because of lucky breaks and players playing way over expectations. Jauron will have to get some credit for it. That is how I see the situation, and it seems that you view it in much the same way, though we may disagree on Jauron's coaching abilities as they stand right now. But even you admitted that injuries to solid players have had an effect on Jauron's teams, and that is one of those reality factors that must be considered when evaluating the outcome, but in terms of what he did do and didn't do, which I also think you rightly pointed out. But those things have to be considered on both sides of the coin.
BillsVet Posted July 12, 2008 Posted July 12, 2008 The front office and coaching staff have had three free agency periods, three drafts, and two seasons to get this team back to respectability. At this point, the 2008 season is about accountability and nothing short of the playoffs will be acceptable. There should be no more 7-9, 8-8 type seasons, even in a difficult AFC. While DJ doesn't have talent on par with San Diego or Indy, the team acquired players on defense to win some ball games. The offense still appears to have major holes at TE, C, and features a rookie WR and young QB. Despite this, if Buffalo cannot make the playoffs and the starters play most of the snaps, I will have no pity for DJ and the front office. Ultimately, I think we can divide fans on this board into two categories: those who are tired of excuses, and those who continue to find new ones. If you're satisfied with keeping games close and being at or below .500, I'd say you're in the latter category. Bills fans have been told for too long (through the Donahoe, Levy, and now Brandon regimes) that this team is exciting and will win some games. It needs to happen now.
Sisyphean Bills Posted July 12, 2008 Posted July 12, 2008 I would not consider it an ad hominem attack, but if it was conveyed that way to you, I apologize. I try not to get into the business of name calling or personal attacks. It's just messy and distills conversation. OK, truce accepted then. That being said, I do agree that Jauron is not a "great" coach, but I don't think he is below average either. This is really the first time in his coaching career that he will have an FO that is behind him I think the FO has been behind him the whole way in Buffalo. It's not news that he and Jerry Angelo did not get along, but DJ was hired in Chicago in 1999 and Angelo didn't arrive until 2001. I'm not sure why you think the FO was against him in 1999 or 2000. Maybe you just mean the Bears FO is a cluster? But on that note, how stable and successful has the current FO been in Buffalo? There are many of the same guys that Tom Donahoe brought in when he swept out the FO still here. and a cohesive team that, assuming they can stay healthy, has what I would call above average talent. Do you think the Bears team that went to the Super Bowl in 06 had any talent? There are many players that were on that team that were on the 03 squad that Jauron coached. This is a sink or swim year for him. If the Bills stay healthy, and they finish at 8-8 or worse, I think this year was a failure and he will either be gone or on the hot seat. I don't think he is going to get much more time than this season. Let's set up a scenario then. Let's say Trent Edwards gets injured week 4 and misses 8 weeks of the season and the Bills do not go 8-8. Is that enough to save Jauron? What if we add Schobel or Walker or McGee? What if Stroud's ankle isn't sound and he only takes 25% of the defensive snaps? Is there really no scenario where you would say Jauron has enough excuses and regardless of final record, he should stay? FWIW, I think that if the wheels come off in 08, Ralph will step in and go on a rampage and we'll start over. All I'm saying is that "narrowly missing the playoffs" (just like last year) is not necessarily a hanging offense, especially if there are ample excuses to trot out. However, if he goes 10-6 or 11-5, I don't think it is only going to be because of lucky breaks and players playing way over expectations. Jauron will have to get some credit for it. Sure. I hope the FO gets their credit too. Especially if we believe Jauron has nothing to do with stocking the roster. That is how I see the situation, and it seems that you view it in much the same way, though we may disagree on Jauron's coaching abilities as they stand right now. But even you admitted that injuries to solid players have had an effect on Jauron's teams, and that is one of those reality factors that must be considered when evaluating the outcome, but in terms of what he did do and didn't do, which I also think you rightly pointed out. But those things have to be considered on both sides of the coin. Sure. I think though that the injury argument is overblown in the sense that it is a ready-made excuse for every problem. The fact is that every NFL team has injuries every year and many are far more crippling to the team than the loss of Aaron Merz, Copeland Bryan, or Matt Murphy. Injuries are disruptive, but they are a part of the game and must be dealt with as part of the game. Injuries alone should not be a foundation for pardoning poor play and losing. Great and even good coaches find ways to manage their teams to wins in spite of injuries. Bill Belichick and Tom Coughlin come immediately to mind as examples.
VOR Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 I understand that postmortem evaluation of the 07 season and how the changes made this off-season, assuming they pan out, can lend themselves to optimism. The 7-9 and 17 on IR stat lines support that take and that's all good. On the other hand and just to brief the other view slightly, the Bills went 0-3 to close out the season and their offense was horrible. They went 3-5 in the second half of the season with 2 of those wins against a deflated, demoralized, and disastrous Dolphins punching bag. That leaves 1 win in the last half of the season against a quality opponent. The only win against a playoff team came on a last second kick against a Redskins team that had had their best player murdered that week. Then there were the brutal blowouts against quality opponents that just bent the Bills over on both sides of the ball and simply had their way with them. Then there were the games where the strategic philosophy backfired with Denver and Dallas winning the game in the last minute. Sure there was a game against the Bengals and the Dolphins (teams with pathetic defenses and internal squabbling) where the Bills gave the impression of being a more complete team; but, the point is that the progression just wasn't there. Over the course of the season, the Bills kept showing up for games but the same mistakes kept getting made too. There are a lot of questions and a lot of the answers have yet to show up on the playing field. PS: It's fine to say that Trent Edwards had a lot of poise and looked like a promising rookie in 07. On the other hand, it is also true that the Bills offense sucked hard, sucked in a record-setting bad way. Any aspirations of a quality playoff season in 08 are linked in no small part to Mr. Edwards and his development. So, yes, setting aside the hype (I listen to NFL radio and hear all the backslapping on how Edwards took the NFL by storm last year too, but that doesn't jive completely with stats like points and watching the games), to be a playoff team, the Bills will need a ton more production out of the QB position than Edwards gave them last year. While we can be hopeful, I don't see how anyone can say it is a given with a straight face at this point. PPS: And so as not to be QB and offense myopic, I'll mention that the defense has to improve greatly to be a quality playoff contending team. They sucked against the run. I can't remember how many times receivers were totally wide open in the secondary with no defender within 10 yards, or the missed tackles, or being pancaked, or being totally out of position, or taking terrible pursuit angles... They couldn't generate much/any QB pressure most of the time. Not saying there were no excuses, but clearly the defense must get much, much better to compete with the big boys ... or even the average boys with a little meat on their bones. To start off, if you want to blame the Redskins losing on Sean Taylor's death, I can just as easily blame the Broncos loss on Kevin Everett getting paralyzed. And I agree that the offense was horrible, for the reasons I mentioned, while the defense got pushed around by the better offenses. Again the Bills addressed many of the problem areas over the off-season. But this will be a new season with a new schedule. They play the NFC West and I can see them going 3-1 in those games, maybe even 4-0. I can also see them going 4-2 in the division, losing to the Jets and Patriots (they'll probably win the division early and rest their starters in the season finale) once. I also see them beating the Raiders, Cardinals, and Chiefs. They might be able to sneak a win over the Broncos, who have had a habit of fading the past 2 seasons, but winning in Denver is tough. So I can see 10-6 to 11-5.
ax4782 Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 To start off, if you want to blame the Redskins losing on Sean Taylor's death, I can just as easily blame the Broncos loss on Kevin Everett getting paralyzed. And I agree that the offense was horrible, for the reasons I mentioned, while the defense got pushed around by the better offenses. Again the Bills addressed many of the problem areas over the off-season. But this will be a new season with a new schedule. They play the NFC West and I can see them going 3-1 in those games, maybe even 4-0. I can also see them going 4-2 in the division, losing to the Jets and Patriots (they'll probably win the division early and rest their starters in the season finale) once. I also see them beating the Raiders, Cardinals, and Chiefs. They might be able to sneak a win over the Broncos, who have had a habit of fading the past 2 seasons, but winning in Denver is tough. So I can see 10-6 to 11-5. I think you've got it about right. Barring any sort of catastrophic injury situations, this team has the talent to be 10-6 or 11-5 with a bit of luck. And who knows, maybe the Patsies throw out their backups in Week 17 and we sneak out an extra win there. There are a lot of reasons, IMO to be optimistic about the season ahead. That being said, I can also see the reasons that many people are skeptical about the FO, the Coach and the team as a whole.
Adam Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 I think that last sentence of yours said it all. Jauron has never had anything other than below average to average talent. Counting his time in Detroit is a bit unfair, as the team at that point was in free fall and the players had totally given up. Considering that they were still competitive in any of those games I think shows the opposite of what you suggest. And for those comments about "he got lucky" in that 13-3 season, I hate to break this to you, but luck is as big a part of football as the skill you put out on the field, so to say he got lucky is really a moot point. I agree with you. I see posts about the Dallas game- Jauron and the staff had our players in position to make plays, and that kept us in the game. Talent won out that day. Jauron had a GARBAGE team to work with last season- DeGieogio and Wilson will never be starters in this league. A 3-year QB split time with a rookie, and both had one legit threat to throw to and our best offensive play was having a rookie RB evade three unblocked defenders in the backfield for a breakaway touchdown. Our D-line was terrible and our O-line was vastly overrated despite having the single best lineman in football. Our secondary was terrible and we relied too heavily on running back kickoffs and punts. This is the type of team that Jauron has worked with.
1billsfan Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 I agree with you. I see posts about the Dallas game- Jauron and the staff had our players in position to make plays, and that kept us in the game. Talent won out that day. Jauron had a GARBAGE team to work with last season- DeGieogio and Wilson will never be starters in this league. A 3-year QB split time with a rookie, and both had one legit threat to throw to and our best offensive play was having a rookie RB evade three unblocked defenders in the backfield for a breakaway touchdown. Our D-line was terrible and our O-line was vastly overrated despite having the single best lineman in football. Our secondary was terrible and we relied too heavily on running back kickoffs and punts. This is the type of team that Jauron has worked with. Now THAT'S some garbage! DiGiorgio (spell much?) played VERY well for a backup player. He had 113 tackles, 2 sacks and an interception. What gives you the right to disparage him like that? Calling him garbage with a season like that? Oh yes, it's your desperate attempt to excuse Dick Jauron's piss poor head coaching. Wilson played BETTER than Simpson, BETTER. Yet another guy you ridiculously called garbage. And these were your two examples to support your weak argument???? It took an injury to Webster for Greer (another backup that played very well) to become a starter. Why the hell did Jauron bring in a stiff like Webster to start ahead of him? Jackson, hardly used, was 100 times better than A-Train who's play was embarrassing in Lynch's absence. Lynch is garbage? Evans is garbage? Peters, garbage? Schobel, garbage? Edwards play at QB had fans doing cartwheels around here, so now he's garbage? Special teams, garbage? Dick Jauron is the ONLY garbage in need of disposal on this team. You just don't see it because you're so full of you know what!
ax4782 Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 Now THAT'S some garbage! DiGiorgio (spell much?) played VERY well for a backup player. He had 113 tackles, 2 sacks and an interception. What gives you the right to disparage him like that? Calling him garbage with a season like that? Oh yes, it's your desperate attempt to excuse Dick Jauron's piss poor head coaching. Wilson played BETTER than Simpson, BETTER. Yet another guy you ridiculously called garbage. And these were your two examples to support your weak argument???? It took an injury to Webster for Greer (another backup that played very well) to become a starter. Why the hell did Jauron bring in a stiff like Webster to start ahead of him? Jackson, hardly used, was 100 times better than A-Train who's play was embarrassing in Lynch's absence. Lynch is garbage? Evans is garbage? Peters, garbage? Schobel, garbage? Edwards play at QB had fans doing cartwheels around here, so now he's garbage? Special teams, garbage? Dick Jauron is the ONLY garbage in need of disposal on this team. You just don't see it because you're so full of you know what! I think that perhaps you are a bit quick on the trigger here. The fact is that Wilson played better than Simpson last season because Simpson didn't play. In case you forgot, he was on IR from week 2 on. Thus, your statement is true, but the fact is, Simpson is a far better FS than Wilson. There can be no doubt that Simpson will be the starter, mostly because his rookie performance was overshadowed only by that of Whitner in the deep secondary. Second, just because a guy comes in and plays a solid backup role does not mean they are capable of being a starter in the league. I think DiGiorgio played admirably and may actually have the potential to start in the NFL, but not Wilson. Not to disparage his play or talent, but right now, he is a very solid backup for us and would be in the same role pretty much anywhere in the league. As to your comments about Jauron, you clearly put too much emphasis on what a HC has the authority to do in this league. First off, HCs don't "bring in players." The FO does that. The reason that they brought in Webster was because the previous year Greer didn't play like a starting corner. He was decent, young, and prone to mistakes. Not exactly what you want to run out there week after week against the other teams best and second best. Further, McGee hasn't been a CB for that long. Recall, he was converted from another position not that long ago. There was very little veteran depth at the CB position to help those guys along. Webster filled that need and he was a decent option at the number two and number three spot for what we had last year. That being said, the fact that Webster was set to be our starting corner should be indicative of the fact that we needed help the CB position in the draft, but I suppose that Jauron's suggesting that only shows how dumb he is right? I've said it once, and I'll say it a hundred times. Jauron, as of now, has shown no signs of being a "great" head coach. But there aren't very many of those. I have seen the he is a stabilizing force for an organization that has had a literal coaching carousel since Levy left. In the last seven seasons we've had four head coaches. That kind of "stability" is exactly what a young franchise needs right? And the fact is, there is nothing that Jauron has done that shows me he is a bad coach. We had a ton of injuries last year, and a team that, frankly, overachieved in terms of their record. There are a lot of good pieces in place this year and I still think, though Sisyphean made a solid point, that this is likely to be a make or break year for Jauron. If the Bills don't either markedly improve record wise or competitively, he's gone. I personally think that, barring a rash of injuries, 9-7 is very readily achievable, and possibly 10-6 or 11-5, just based on our schedule. All that being the case, Jauron didn't go out there and play and SF was the one calling the plays. And those players that you listed above. Only two of them actually showed up and played well last year. Lynch and the running game were excellent, as was the OL in run blocking. He showed up. Jason Peters is perhaps the best LT in the league, and he showed up for the 13 weeks he wasn't injured. However, Schobel didn't play anywhere near expectations. Evans disappeared, and as for Fred Jackson, he didn't get third down reps, because, like ML, HE CAN'T BLOCK!!!! That is the most important job for an RB in obvious passing situations; to pick up blitzing LBs, usually on the blind side. If your RB can't block, your QB is going to have a rough day. A-Train, OTOH, was a very good blocker. He made solid reads in pass protection and did an excellent job protecting TE in some of those more difficult spots. I give Jauron credit for being smart enough to realize that TE ending up on his butt more often wasn't going to be good for his confidence. You can say that's crap, but then you don't understand the QB position or much about football. The QB position is a whole lot of confidence, not only in yourself, but in your protection and blockers. If you are constantly worrying about getting hit b/c your guys can't pick up blocks, you aren't going to make your reads as quickly or be as confident in your ability to throw the ball down the field on reads and routes that take more time to develop. Finally, I have said it before, but posts like this infuriate me enough to sit down and say it again. Jauron has never been in a stable situation in his entire career, until this season and last. The FO in Buffalo is fully behind him and they have built a solid team for him to coach and put on the field. That was not true of his tenure in Chicago, and I don't even count his time in Detroit because no coach could have been put in the situation he was, with that team and done better than he did with the putrid talent he had on that team for the five games he was the coach. I do think that Jauron is going to have to sink or swim in terms of his ability as a coach this season. The spotlights are on. But if he succeeds, and the team makes the playoffs, and the they progress, I hope that many of the people here who credit him with every failing on this team, finally give him some credit. Likely, they will point to all the things that Jauron didn't have in his control and say that he still sucks. Completely hypocritical, I know, but that is the likely outcome. I hope that you will give him some credit if they do in fact win. That being said, barring injuries and other problems outside of his control (i.e. Jason Peters' contract negotiations) if he doesn't get this team to a markedly better place and showing on the field, I think his turn at the helm needs to come to an end.
1billsfan Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 I think that perhaps you are a bit quick on the trigger here. The fact is that Wilson played better than Simpson last season because Simpson didn't play. In case you forgot, he was on IR from week 2 on. Thus, your statement is true, but the fact is, Simpson is a far better FS than Wilson. There can be no doubt that Simpson will be the starter, mostly because his rookie performance was overshadowed only by that of Whitner in the deep secondary. Second, just because a guy comes in and plays a solid backup role does not mean they are capable of being a starter in the league. I think DiGiorgio played admirably and may actually have the potential to start in the NFL, but not Wilson. Not to disparage his play or talent, but right now, he is a very solid backup for us and would be in the same role pretty much anywhere in the league. As to your comments about Jauron, you clearly put too much emphasis on what a HC has the authority to do in this league. First off, HCs don't "bring in players." The FO does that. The reason that they brought in Webster was because the previous year Greer didn't play like a starting corner. He was decent, young, and prone to mistakes. Not exactly what you want to run out there week after week against the other teams best and second best. Further, McGee hasn't been a CB for that long. Recall, he was converted from another position not that long ago. There was very little veteran depth at the CB position to help those guys along. Webster filled that need and he was a decent option at the number two and number three spot for what we had last year. That being said, the fact that Webster was set to be our starting corner should be indicative of the fact that we needed help the CB position in the draft, but I suppose that Jauron's suggesting that only shows how dumb he is right? I've said it once, and I'll say it a hundred times. Jauron, as of now, has shown no signs of being a "great" head coach. But there aren't very many of those. I have seen the he is a stabilizing force for an organization that has had a literal coaching carousel since Levy left. In the last seven seasons we've had four head coaches. That kind of "stability" is exactly what a young franchise needs right? And the fact is, there is nothing that Jauron has done that shows me he is a bad coach. We had a ton of injuries last year, and a team that, frankly, overachieved in terms of their record. There are a lot of good pieces in place this year and I still think, though Sisyphean made a solid point, that this is likely to be a make or break year for Jauron. If the Bills don't either markedly improve record wise or competitively, he's gone. I personally think that, barring a rash of injuries, 9-7 is very readily achievable, and possibly 10-6 or 11-5, just based on our schedule. All that being the case, Jauron didn't go out there and play and SF was the one calling the plays. And those players that you listed above. Only two of them actually showed up and played well last year. Lynch and the running game were excellent, as was the OL in run blocking. He showed up. Jason Peters is perhaps the best LT in the league, and he showed up for the 13 weeks he wasn't injured. However, Schobel didn't play anywhere near expectations. Evans disappeared, and as for Fred Jackson, he didn't get third down reps, because, like ML, HE CAN'T BLOCK!!!! That is the most important job for an RB in obvious passing situations; to pick up blitzing LBs, usually on the blind side. If your RB can't block, your QB is going to have a rough day. A-Train, OTOH, was a very good blocker. He made solid reads in pass protection and did an excellent job protecting TE in some of those more difficult spots. I give Jauron credit for being smart enough to realize that TE ending up on his butt more often wasn't going to be good for his confidence. You can say that's crap, but then you don't understand the QB position or much about football. The QB position is a whole lot of confidence, not only in yourself, but in your protection and blockers. If you are constantly worrying about getting hit b/c your guys can't pick up blocks, you aren't going to make your reads as quickly or be as confident in your ability to throw the ball down the field on reads and routes that take more time to develop. Finally, I have said it before, but posts like this infuriate me enough to sit down and say it again. Jauron has never been in a stable situation in his entire career, until this season and last. The FO in Buffalo is fully behind him and they have built a solid team for him to coach and put on the field. That was not true of his tenure in Chicago, and I don't even count his time in Detroit because no coach could have been put in the situation he was, with that team and done better than he did with the putrid talent he had on that team for the five games he was the coach. I do think that Jauron is going to have to sink or swim in terms of his ability as a coach this season. The spotlights are on. But if he succeeds, and the team makes the playoffs, and the they progress, I hope that many of the people here who credit him with every failing on this team, finally give him some credit. Likely, they will point to all the things that Jauron didn't have in his control and say that he still sucks. Completely hypocritical, I know, but that is the likely outcome. I hope that you will give him some credit if they do in fact win. That being said, barring injuries and other problems outside of his control (i.e. Jason Peters' contract negotiations) if he doesn't get this team to a markedly better place and showing on the field, I think his turn at the helm needs to come to an end. You obviously didn't understand me, I was talking about Simpson's previous season when he was completely healthy. The season he had a respectable 76 tackles, 50 solo and 2 interceptions. Wilson only started 9 games and still came away with 37 tackles, 30 solo and 2 interceptions. I'll call it even-steven performances, but I do think that Wilson has a much better nose for the ball. That's a key for free safety. No doubt???? That's one position that should definitely be up for grabs. Since when did Ko Simpson become a freaking all-pro? Him AND Whitner need to step up their games in '08. Unless you're ok with veteran players not making a bigger impact on the field. Secondly, your wrong on Jauron's say in player decisions. It's well known he has a huge say in who they target and bring onto the roster. FYI...Jauron, as of now, has shown no signs of being a "GOOD" head coach. Unless you think that "good" means "mediocre". This is my feeling on all matters of the Buffalo Bills....if you're mediocre don't let the door hit ya in the ass on the way out. Perhaps you have different aspirations for the Bills. Look, Dick Jauron now has a loooooong record as an NFL head coach and he's done run out of the tired and lame excuses you all like to expound upon. Sorry, but I've given up on this close-to-the-vest play-not-to-lose loser. If he does indeed make me eat my words I'll be happy as a clam to do so. Don't see it happening though.
krazykat Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 Guy, and thanks, barring any sarcasm there, though my sarcasm detector didn't really go off. I also think that you are a stand up guy, or gal, whichever. You post solid responses, and back them up with statistics, that, while I don't always agree tell the whole story, at least give people something to discuss. For the record, thin skin can be the going rate around here sometimes. You get used to it. Guy as well, and meant with all sincerety. As to the skin being the going rate, yes, I know. I just think that it's amusing that those same people accuse others of having a thin skin at times too on top of the girlish preoccupation with "being offended," usually implicitly. I.e., where have all the "men" gone. Appreciate the kind comments otherwise! I don't expect everyone to agree as that would be foolish, but it's a big retarded to do what you, I, and others do, by throwing out stats and other data and information and having it be countered by statements made in a press conference or official team statements or something along those lines. be There really should be another forum for those that don't always believe everything that Chris Brown and the team's representatives say as if it's absolute certainty given their histories.
krazykat Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 You may not like comments that question Jauron's capability as a head coach but there is simply no argumaent that can be substantiated that he is anything but average at best (and probably below average) as a head coach. His teams in Chicago, Detroit and Buffalo have rarely beat quality opponents. Don't throw the 13-3 Bears at me. I watched nearly every game that season. They were incredibly lucky and after getting a bye and home field advantage were dismantled by the wild card Eagles. Getting below average or average talent to 6 or 7 wins a year is not the same as achieving playoff wins with good talent. There are few coaches in the league with more to prove than him IMO. 2001 Bears Season Opponent W/L W L Ws Ls 2001 San Francisco W 1 12 4 2001 Green Bay L 1 12 4 2001 Green Bay L 1 12 4 2001 Baltimore L 1 10 6 2001 Tampa Bay W 1 9 7 2001 Tampa Bay W 1 9 7 2001 Washington W 1 8 8 2001 Atlanta W 1 7 9 2001 Arizona W 1 7 9 2001 Cleveland W 1 7 9 2001 Cincinnati W 1 6 10 2001 Jacksonville W 1 6 10 2001 Minnesota W 1 5 11 2001 Minnesota W 1 5 11 2001 Detroit W 1 2 14 2001 Detroit W 1 2 14 13 3 119 137 Record of Teams Beaten 85 123 Playoffs 2001 Philadelphia L 11 5
krazykat Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 You may not like comments that question Jauron's capability as a head coach but there is simply no argumaent that can be substantiated that he is anything but average at best (and probably below average) as a head coach. His teams in Chicago, Detroit and Buffalo have rarely beat quality opponents. Don't throw the 13-3 Bears at me. I watched nearly every game that season. They were incredibly lucky and after getting a bye and home field advantage were dismantled by the wild card Eagles. Getting below average or average talent to 6 or 7 wins a year is not the same as achieving playoff wins with good talent. There are few coaches in the league with more to prove than him IMO. 2001 Bears Season Opponent W/L W L Ws Ls 2001 San Francisco W 1 12 4 2001 Green Bay L 1 12 4 2001 Green Bay L 1 12 4 2001 Baltimore L 1 10 6 2001 Tampa Bay W 1 9 7 2001 Tampa Bay W 1 9 7 2001 Washington W 1 8 8 2001 Atlanta W 1 7 9 2001 Arizona W 1 7 9 2001 Cleveland W 1 7 9 2001 Cincinnati W 1 6 10 2001 Jacksonville W 1 6 10 2001 Minnesota W 1 5 11 2001 Minnesota W 1 5 11 2001 Detroit W 1 2 14 2001 Detroit W 1 2 14 13 3 119 137 Record of Teams Beaten 85 123 Playoffs 2001 Philadelphia L 11 5
krazykat Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 You may not like comments that question Jauron's capability as a head coach but there is simply no argumaent that can be substantiated that he is anything but average at best (and probably below average) as a head coach. His teams in Chicago, Detroit and Buffalo have rarely beat quality opponents. Don't throw the 13-3 Bears at me. I watched nearly every game that season. They were incredibly lucky and after getting a bye and home field advantage were dismantled by the wild card Eagles. Getting below average or average talent to 6 or 7 wins a year is not the same as achieving playoff wins with good talent. There are few coaches in the league with more to prove than him IMO. 2001 Bears Season Opponent W/L Ws Ls 2001 San Francisco W 12 4 2001 Green Bay L 12 4 2001 Green Bay L 12 4 2001 Baltimore L 10 6 2001 Tampa Bay W 9 7 2001 Tampa Bay W 9 7 2001 Washington W 8 8 2001 Atlanta W 7 9 2001 Arizona W 7 9 2001 Cleveland W 7 9 2001 Cincinnati W 6 10 2001 Jacksonville W 6 10 2001 Minnesota W 5 11 2001 Minnesota W 5 11 2001 Detroit W 2 14 2001 Detroit W 2 14 13 -3 119 -137 Record of Teams Beaten 85 -123 Playoffs 2001 Philadelphia L 11 -5
krazykat Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 Thin skin?!? How about the basic courtesy of not pairing every statistically-based claim (some interesting and revealing; some not) with a personal insult? (This isn't directed at you, of course.) I mean, why do people need to feel that "free discussion" encompasses taunting, score settling, and know-it-all-ism? It ain't much fun, and makes reading the board a depressing exercise, particularly when a genuinely good discussion lies underneath all the froth. Most of the tough but knowledgeable posters here -- i.e., Badolbilz -- may get prickly and harsh at times, but they are at least able to display a level of warmth and humor pretty regularly. That's all I'm asking for, I guess. Your notion of 'insults' now on at least two occasions seems to include any statement that arbitrarily hurts your feelings including simple disagreements. What are you, 20 and part of the "everyone's a winner" generation. Get a grip, eh. And I agree, so do all other posters that bring substance. So how about talking to all the people that don't bring anything of any substance and do all that.
krazykat Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 I think that last sentence of yours said it all. Jauron has never had anything other than below average to average talent. Forget his time in Detroit, here is the list of Pro Bowl talent he had, i.e., players that made the PB on his watch, in Chicago: Glyn Milburn Brian Urlacher Olin Kreutz Ted Washington Marty Booker Jerry Azumah Do we have that kind of talent here, now? Other notable players in Chicago on Jauron's watch: Keith Traylor Alex Brown RW McQuarters Anthony Thomas Leon Johnson Rosevelt Colvin Yeah, pretty trashy collection of talent there. So, would you then say that your statement is true, or false?
Adam Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 Jackson, hardly used, was 100 times better than A-Train who's play was embarrassing in Lynch's absence. Lynch is garbage? Evans is garbage? Peters, garbage? Schobel, garbage? Edwards play at QB had fans doing cartwheels around here, so now he's garbage? Special teams, garbage? Dick Jauron is the ONLY garbage in need of disposal on this team. You just don't see it because you're so full of you know what! Lynch and Jackson are both GARBAGE at picking up the blitz. There is more to playing running back in the NFL than what gets you points in a MINDLESS fantasy football league. Until they can pick up the blitz, they are not adequate, and will hinder the offense's production regardless of how many yards they pick up. Evans is a very good WR, but he is the only capable WR we have. He also is not a multi-dimensional WR. Schobel is a very good defensive end, but is the only end we have that is remotely close to that caliber- he is far from elite. I have stated numerous times that Peters may be the best OL in the league. I also like our guards, but we are below average at right tackle and horrible at center. Without an adequate center, our offense can't be efficient and will continue to be a weakness no matter who designs the offense. I couldn't care less what the fan's opinion on Edwards is. They don't know what it takes to play QB in the NFL, nor do they have the patience to wait for one to develop. They enjoy the stupidity of WGR55, watching American Idol, and playing fantasy football more than knowing the workings of an NFL team- a team that exists in reality. If you can find a post where I called our special teams garbage, please show it to me. Apparently this is just another fabrication. AS I have said before, we rely too much on our special teams, needing kick and punt returns to score. The talent level we have right now is closer to putting up a 6-10 season than a winning record. Sorry if you don't like it, but thats how it is. When you have a second year QB who has yet to experience growing pains, the last thing you need is a center who can't block, a RB who can't pick up the blitz and just one threat at WR. Oh wait, I forgot, we expect our rookie WR to post a 2,000 yard season with 15 touchdowns......relying on that will get you far. Our offense will improve but continue to be inconsistent. The main improvement of our offense will come from increased possessions and field position from our defense and special teams. By the way- Degeorgio and Wilson are just fine as backups. Neither can diagnose a play as quickly as you need to in the NFL. Our coaching staff helped put them in position to make plays utilizing what few skills they had. Thats the way things work in the NFL
krazykat Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 The front office and coaching staff have had three free agency periods, three drafts, and two seasons to get this team back to respectability. At this point, the 2008 season is about accountability and nothing short of the playoffs will be acceptable. There should be no more 7-9, 8-8 type seasons, even in a difficult AFC. While DJ doesn't have talent on par with San Diego or Indy, the team acquired players on defense to win some ball games. The offense still appears to have major holes at TE, C, and features a rookie WR and young QB. Despite this, if Buffalo cannot make the playoffs and the starters play most of the snaps, I will have no pity for DJ and the front office. Ultimately, I think we can divide fans on this board into two categories: those who are tired of excuses, and those who continue to find new ones. If you're satisfied with keeping games close and being at or below .500, I'd say you're in the latter category. Bills fans have been told for too long (through the Donahoe, Levy, and now Brandon regimes) that this team is exciting and will win some games. It needs to happen now. And if the Bills tank again those divides will still remain.
krazykat Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 To start off, if you want to blame the Redskins losing on Sean Taylor's death, I can just as easily blame the Broncos loss on Kevin Everett getting paralyzed. See VOR, this is exactly why you have little credibility and no one takes you seriously. The silliness of equating these two doesn't even need further explanation.
krazykat Posted July 13, 2008 Posted July 13, 2008 Lynch is garbage?Evans is garbage? Peters, garbage? Schobel, garbage? Edwards play at QB had fans doing cartwheels around here, so now he's garbage? Special teams, garbage? Dick Jauron is the ONLY garbage in need of disposal on this team. You just don't see it because you're so full of you know what! Agree on Jauron although I wouldn't say "the only." Lynch is a very adequate RB for any team to make a SB run. Evans in our case is only as good as his QB, where he plays better under Losman. Peters is very good although '06 for him was better than '07. Schobel's on his back-9. Edwards, lol, well the beauty is in the eyes of the beholder on him. Good work keeping it consistent there.
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